Have I been shafted?

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

eth0_

That is an absolute f*cking disgrace. I am astounded that PC world in Ireland would sell freeview devices. You cannot receive the broadcasts in the Republic as a rule, hell, I live outside Belfast and can't get it without an aeriel on the roof.

Those idiots are also selling DAB radios I believe, when you can't receive any DAB stations in Ireland.

I'd go to the newspapers with this one.

Samson

It's very simple really.
You are well within your rights to demand a refund, as the goods are not fit for the purpose supplied (not in this country anyway).

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

eth0_

Originally posted by smiaras
Its Dixons that are selling it. But without a box and probably receipt (although he can probably get something through his credit card) is there anything I can do?
.

They HAVE to give you a refund. You don't need the box. The product isn't fit for the purpose it was sold. It's like buying a 110v TV in dixons and them being surprised when it doesn't work.

sceptre

I'm with eth0_ on this one. It's not fit for the purpose sold. If I was selling the thing in this country and felt like being honest I'd give even an experienced TV hobbyist warnings galore before letting them out of the shop with the thing.

And I'm curious. What Dixons branch (as in which city) was this bought in? Some people have reported /some/ succes in getting Freeview to work in parts of Dublin but coverage is patchy even in Norn Iron and if it was a Dixons in Limerick or Galway there's no way in hell anyone local could get it to work.

smiaras

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Capt'n Midnight

Digital TV now in 49.02% of UK homes.
(ie. 50% population not 50% area covered.)

Coverage map - click on norn iorn or wales at the side.
http://www.ukfree.tv/maps.php?N=Freeview%20signal%20strength

Also you'd need a large aerial - perhaps two or four in parallel or one of those 2 or 3m mesh dishes (you are heading into planning permission required size / height)

smiaras

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sceptre

Originally posted by smiaras
I found Freeview website very unhelpful as there is no e-mail address only telephone numbers in the UK, which would no doubt cost an arm and a leg.

Ah well it's a UK service for UK people. Ireland doesn't have a digital terrestrial TV service.

Cabaal

Should be interesting now if Dixons have the cop on to refund on this one, lets hope they have sense...

Genghis

Thats gas. It's typical Dixons - stock a useless product and train the staff to sell it - I wonder do they have higher staff commissions for flogging these in the Republic?!

smiaras

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eth0_

haha! I'm glad it turned out ok for you mate.
Hope the manager is going to pull those items from the shelves....ffs if the sales guys are telling people they can get 'hundreds' of digital channels for free they must be flying off the shelves.

smiaras

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APM

Lads,
as a matter of interest, I'm curious to know if the freeview boxes their selling in Power City are similar to the one mentioned above.

They seem to be


Cheers

smiaras

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Genghis

IF Power City are selling the same item, there really is no excuse!

However, there can be some confusion about systems. Freeview is a terrestrial service operated only within the UK. As a digital service 'spillover' from Wales or NI is far more limited than the 'analogue' spillover people have tapped in the Republic to for years. Therefore there is no justification for selling 'Freeview' receivers in the Republic.

However, in recent months the BBC have gone 'Free to Air' over satellite - which means that you can receive all their TV and Radio channels via a dish and receiver. Once you buy these and install them they are free to view for ever. Along with BBC you will also get other channels such as Sky News, CNN, Shopping channels etc. While the BBC services are intended to be, like the terrestrial platform, just for the UK, it was impossible for them to beam to all of the UK and not to Ireland (we are in their footprint). This means that in the Republic it is perfectly legitimate to tune in, and many installers sell dish/receiver systems (which they often call 'free-view'. presumably to confuse heir customers).

Also, because the BBC are involved in both 'Freeview' (Terrestrial) and 'Free to Air' (Satellite), and becasue they are both 'digital' systems, there can be some confusion of terms - certainly in the UK where both systems are being marketed simultaneously, this is the case.

Power City might well be offering a digital satellite receiver which can pick up the BBC and other Free to Air satellite channels, and they might even be calling it a 'Free-view' system. Can anyone shed any light?

an_taoiseach

FWIW Freeview is available unencrypted on an Astra satellite. Coverage includes all of Ireland

So, notwithstanding the clear 'absolute disgrace' position above if any of you want to avail of Freeview just go right ahead ( but be sure to buy the correct kit )


An T

smiaras

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Genghis

Originally posted by an_taoiseach
FWIW Freeview is available unencrypted on an Astra satellite. Coverage includes all of Ireland

So, notwithstanding the clear 'absolute disgrace' position above if any of you want to avail of Freeview just go right ahead ( but be sure to buy the correct kit )


An T

An Taoiseach - thanks for illustrating so perfectly the confusion I had been trying to clear up in my post directly before yours.

To re-iterate and summarise:

"Freeview" is a terrestrial digital service ONLY available in the UK.

"Freeview" is not available on Astra or any other satellite.

The BBC and others broadcast 'in the clear' by satellite to the UK, and this overspills into Ireland. This service is NOT "Freeview" though it is regularly confused with "Freeview". The most significant difference between the terrestrial "Freeview" and the channels that are available 'free to view' via satellite is in the line-up. You will not get Ch4, ITV, ITV2, Ch5, FTN, Sky Travel, UK History, UK Bright Ideas, ITV News, TMF or the Hits free via satellite.

Any "Freeview" product sold in Ireland is therefore either

a) actually called / branded "Freeview" and is redundant and useless as reception of UK terrestrial digital TV is practically impossible in the Republic, or

b) a satellite system 'purporting' to be / confused as "Freeview" which actually allows you to 'view for free' certain unencrypted channels broadcast to UK / Ireland.

an_taoiseach

Hmmm,


http://www.astra2d.co.uk/footprint.htm

Not exactly spill over - more like Ireland is the target



http://www.astra2d.co.uk/

"Which channels are on 2D?

BBC TV and radio, all ITV regions, ITV2, BBC Interactive services, some Sky channels and Irish TV and radio channels are available. You will need a card from the Republic of Ireland to see Irish TV channels! Deutsche Welle TV and TVE International also broadcast on this satellite. "



http://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/BBC_Freetoview.html

What are these guys offering ?


Looks to me like there is a lot there via satellite & its free. Is it Freeview ? Greg Dyke spun it that it was ( and nice Rupert the Oz still hasnt calmed down )




An T

Genghis

Originally posted by an_taoiseach
Hmmm,


http://www.astra2d.co.uk/footprint.htm

Not exactly spill over - more like Ireland is the target

Is that a 'tongue in cheek' smiley? The astra 2D satellite is targeted at the UK. Given the 'footprint' of satellite, the 'longness' of Great Britain, and the necessity to include the six counties of Northern Ireland in any 'UK' broadcasts, the Republic benefits from spillover. It is not possible to broadcast all of the UK by one satellite alone, neither is it possible to broadcast by satellite to the UK exclusively.

Originally posted by an_taoiseach
http://www.astra2d.co.uk/

"Which channels are on 2D?

BBC TV and radio, all ITV regions, ITV2, BBC Interactive services, some Sky channels and Irish TV and radio channels are available. You will need a card from the Republic of Ireland to see Irish TV channels! Deutsche Welle TV and TVE International also broadcast on this satellite. "
An T

As it is not possible to respect borders by satellite, broadcasters who pay for programme rights are expected to make alternative arrangements to ensure that their signal is not received outside their jurisdiction. For digital satellite, broadcasters use encryption. All of the channels you mention are 'broadcast' to Ireland but not all are 'viewable' in Ireland. In the UK, for example, ITV / C4 / C5 do not pay for broadcast rights for ROI, and you can only receive them if you have a valid viewing card that can unencrypt their signal - likewise RTE (who use the same satellite) is only available to Irish viewers issued with the appropriate card.

Originally posted by an_taoiseach

http://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/BBC_Freetoview.html

What are these guys offering ?


Looks to me like there is a lot there via satellite & its free. Is it Freeview ? Greg Dyke spun it that it was ( and nice Rupert the Oz still hasnt calmed down )

I won't go back over the 'Freeview' confusion, except to say that it is NOT Freeview. What the BBC have done is pay for rights to broadcast to the Republic for the shows they don't make themselves. With their buying power they found the cost to be fractionally more than what they paid for the UK rights anyway, and that this cost was less than what they had been paying for encryption.

Theirs was a business decision, trumpetted by Greg 'No Nonsense' Dyke. Other channels that are Free to view are typically selling stuff, show very cheap shows, or are made available for information purposes - News, God channels, etc - i.e stations with either very low or no programme rights cost.

Look more closely at your link - I agree 'Free to view' looks a lot like 'Freeview' but they are not the same nevertheless.

A final distinction - Freeview is a bundled, branded offering, licenced by the UK government to a joint venture owned by Sky and BBC - it is an entity, a brand.

'Free-to-view' is a commonly used term to describe any channel that is broadcast without encryption.

an_taoiseach

ah ha

Think I see

For a poor sod like myself who just wants to get half decent reception of the Beeb will this 'free-to-view' satellite stuff be OK ?


An T

sceptre

Originally posted by an_taoiseach
For a poor sod like myself who just wants to get half decent reception of the Beeb will this 'free-to-view' satellite stuff be OK ?

Yes

Dish pointed to 28.2E and Sky digibox (or any other digital satellite receiver) required. No ongoing charges and perfect reception of the 8 BBC digital TV channels (1, 2, THREE, 4, CBBC, CBeebies, news24 and Parliament) and radio stations as well. No ITV/C4/five without a UK card (subscription or FTV, only on a sky box) though.

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Coverage map - click on norn iorn or wales at the side.
http://www.ukfree.tv/maps.php?N=Freeview%20signal%20strength

Also you'd need a large aerial - perhaps two or four in parallel or one of those 2 or 3m mesh dishes (you are heading into planning permission required size / height)

Have a root around the above site for more info on how to recieve BBC without contract.

IF you currently get BBC from an Aerial and it's crystal clean and Teletext is always error free and you always have NICAM stereo then you MIGHT be able to use a freeview box.. (the transmitting power of the digital signal is less than for the normal analog signal)

Otherwise you need to buy a second hand SKY satellite system (ya get the Program guide) or buy a FTA one. - If you get a SKY system then if you can get a F TV card you might later on be able to get ITN / C4 / C5 - you will not get any of these three with a FTA box as they are encrypted.

an_taoiseach

Sceptre,

Thanks for that link

Just the job


An T

ZENER

Where I work there is a quad antenna array pointed North connected to 2 digital decoders picking up BBC 1,2,News24 and distributing it throught the area. It doesn't say "Freeview" anywhere on the boxes but it,s definitely a digital signal. Any ideas??

Tinky