US finally discovers WMD...in Texas itself.

Sparks

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
Would he have said that PIRA's possession of SAMs wasn't a problem since they weren't being used at that point in time? I doubt it.

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant there - I was pointing out that the RUC had no problems from licenced firearms, but major problems from unlicenced ones, not that there was no problems with unlicenced firearms that weren't in use.

(And on a pedantic point, SAMs are illegal, but not under firearms legislation, under aviation legislation....)

Victor

Originally posted by Sparks
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant there - I was pointing out that the RUC had no problems from licenced firearms, but major problems from unlicenced ones, not that there was no problems with unlicenced firearms that weren't in use.

Is there the perception, especially among republiccans that this is largely due to the licenced firearms being in the hands of serving and former security forces personnel, which would put a huge bias on the matter. When loyalists are shown parading with SA-80s, they didn't buy them off the Russians.

Originally posted by Sparks
(And on a pedantic point, SAMs are illegal, but not under firearms legislation, under aviation legislation....)

SAMs would also be illegal under explosives and a bunch of other legislation.

sovtek

Oh Man!...not a gun control debate!

Sparks

Yup Victor - and true sovtek, thread hijacking terminated
(I foresee a dedicated thread in the future though )

Zaphod B

I'm going to take the controversial step of suggesting we get back on topic

A story that involved WMD and a court case merited only regional coverage... you honestly didn’t think we’d swallow that, did you?

Thanks Corinthian, couldn't have put it better myself. Geronimo, you genuinely expect us to believe that a story in which a fanatical right-wing conspiracy has aquired... let's say it altogether now... a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION ... should under ANY semblance of common sense or even economic sense (don't even THINK of telling me the story wouldn't sell papers) be excluded from national news?

And the media don't want to give right-wing terrorists (yes, terrorists) any coverage whether good or bad? (though I find it laughable that you could consider anything related to the KKK be good other than their sudden violent deaths)... yes, because clearly pretending there isn't a problem will make the problem go away... (Sarcasm meter at danger level)... you still haven't addressed the implication, nay, the cold hard fact that had the heavily armed nut been a heavily armed nut in a turban, he would not only be either sentenced to death or several hundred rather than a couple of years, but the story WOULD have been all over the national news.

AFAIK Boards has a policy against personal insults. You're avoiding this on a technicality... you say "You simple folk don't understand how the media works in the USA; a fanatic found with a weapon capable of killing hundreds of people is not newsworthy; the best way for the media to deal with domestic terrorists is to ignore them"... Why not simply say what you mean - that we're all fupping idiots? You clearly think we're stupid enough to take your comments in this post seriously for even a second. A 5-year old would be offended by your condescending rubbish.

spongebob

Couldn't have said it any better meself Zaphod, even on one of my good days.

42 to U2

M

Geromino

Originally posted by Zaphod B
Geronimo, you genuinely expect us to believe that a story in which a fanatical right-wing conspiracy has aquired... let's say it altogether now... a WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION ... should under ANY semblance of common sense or even economic sense (don't even THINK of telling me the story wouldn't sell papers) be excluded from national news?

And the media don't want to give right-wing terrorists (yes, terrorists) any coverage whether good or bad? (though I find it laughable that you could consider anything related to the KKK be good other than their sudden violent deaths)... yes, because clearly pretending there isn't a problem will make the problem go away... (Sarcasm meter at danger level)... you still haven't addressed the implication, nay, the cold hard fact that had the heavily armed nut been a heavily armed nut in a turban, he would not only be either sentenced to death or several hundred rather than a couple of years, but the story WOULD have been all over the national news.

AFAIK Boards has a policy against personal insults. You're avoiding this on a technicality... you say "You simple folk don't understand how the media works in the USA; a fanatic found with a weapon capable of killing hundreds of people is not newsworthy; the best way for the media to deal with domestic terrorists is to ignore them"... Why not simply say what you mean - that we're all fupping idiots? You clearly think we're stupid enough to take your comments in this post seriously for even a second. A 5-year old would be offended by your condescending rubbish.

First, how would you know the story would sell national newspapers? Are you an editor of a majoir newspaper or a producer of a major news network? Second, I do not like the KKK, not to mention all right wing anti-government establishment groups. Personally, I all wish they would just commit suicide, but that is not going to happen. An example of good news, a friend of mine told me once that a local KKK group came into town and tried to do a Christmas event to help young white kids. The news media, which by the way practically covers those things during the holiday season, refused. Thank god because the last thing I want is to see a KKK Christmas event. Third, I could care less about news stories in which authorities arrested domestic or foreign terrorists on a potential hijacking, bombing, or any other malcontent episodic misadventure for whatever glory. If the authorities are doing there job, then that is all I care about, but I do not need to read countless news stories about what they are doing right all the time or even some of the time. If I want to read about an historical event or analysis of a particular event, I pick up a book or established websites, not a newspaper. Fourth, it is very presumptuous, not to mention arrogant, to judge a cuture different from your own for whatever reasons. You can agree with or disagree with specific and very particular aspectos of a culrure without placing a judgement. This is what I have learned in my travels abroad and living abroad. I have been to cultures that are completely different from my own and yet I do not place a judgement on that culture whether I understand it or not. Finally, the US is not Europe. It does not act like Europe and it is not Europe. Not even Canada is similar to Europe in culture even though it has similar political ideals. If this personal observance offends you, then everything offends you.

Originally posted by Corthinian
A story that involved WMD and a court case merited only regional coverage... you honestly didn’t think we’d swallow that, did you?

Corinthian, how many newspapers are there in the US? How many news stories, whether they are national or international, come across the wires? Hundreds of newspapers and tens of thousands of stories. Each newspaper has its own set of protocols, establishments, and perspectives. Most rely on the UPI, AP, Knight Rider, etc news services for their news, particulariy national news and may use local connections to fill in the gaps or expand the gaps (that means bi-lines) for the news story for that particular news story. Each editor or producer has certain restraints, including the predicting of what the audience wants to read or listen. What newspapers then look for is an angle to the story. The angle is what gets the reader to read the news story or listen to the news. And it has to do with the Nielsen Ratings and the Pultzer Prizes that define an established and recognized media outlet. That is all the ****ing I am talking about. If this makes you believe that I am defending a certain action, you are dead wrong. I am merely telling you what I know and have learned in my long experience. If you do not believe me, I am assured that the editor in chief of the BBC would be more than happy to explain it to you. Tell me, why did the BBC or the Guardian not print this?

Gerry

Geronimo, nobody is buying your high horse bull****. It's quite obvious to everyone else on this thread there is a problem with ignoring domestic terrorism, while covering every move that al queda do or do not make in massive amounts of hype and scaremongering.
Your "in-depth" knowledge of newspaper marketing somehow doesn't make up for failing to address the points that people have brought up. Yes, the newspapers are giving the people what they want to read. But a lot of these people don't know any better. If they wanted to hear about international affairs, they could pick up other newspapers. But they are content to live in ignorant bliss.

Contrast that with a "lefty" area like the bay area, with papers like the SF Chronicle. People there seem to be much better informed, and give a **** about what happens outside their own backyard.

Maybe you could explain to us stupid judgemental europeans the other factors which control what is deemed newsworthy, such as who pulls the strings behind the scenes, which corporations own which papers. That might be enlightening.

Victor

If people are reluctant to give American domestic terrorists coverage for fear of giving them publicity boost (all publicity being good publicity) why do they pander to attention seekers like Al Qaeda? Why is Fox News providing free advertising to Osama bin Laden?

Hobbes

Originally posted by Geromino
Let me put it to you this way Muck. You are the producer and there are 75 news stories with some or a lot of national significance. You have 30 minutes to report the news along with some analysis. So, how do you decide which ones to report and which ones not to report. What factors would you make the determination.

I believe the reporter in question should contact thier PYSOP rep within thier company.

After that is pretty much the reason the story would be killed, along with such other great stories as Ex-CIA heads being on the board of directors that would of made a profit on 9/11 airplane stocks and how the antrahax mailings weren't in fact Muslim terrorist attacks but actually possibly US military project kicked off by a loon (which was an intresting concidence to have the letters arrive so quickly after 9/11).

sovtek

Originally posted by Hobbes
I believe the reporter in question should contact thier PYSOP rep within thier company.

Don't laugh

After that is pretty much the reason the story would be killed, along with such other great stories as Ex-CIA heads being on the board of directors that would of made a profit on 9/11 airplane stocks and how the antrahax mailings weren't in fact Muslim terrorist attacks but actually possibly US military project kicked off by a loon (which was an intresting concidence to have the letters arrive so quickly after 9/11).

[SARCASM]That's all just conspiracy theory nut job paranoia propagated by those liberal NYT type tabloids.
Next you'll be talking about the black helicopters. [/SARCASM]

Victor

Originally posted by sovtek
Don't laugh

Nice to see "Information Warfare" (PsyOps, hacking, jamming, snooping, electronic sabotage, etc.) get a media friendly name like "Information Dominance".

spongebob

Originally posted by Muck
You forgot to mention that local media in Georgia or Idaho would not report on KKK/Militias in Georgia or Idaho simply because they are dangerous nutters, armed to the teeth, who would quit happily shoot or blow up the editor or reporter who did so. Therefore local right wing activity is simply airbrushed from the 'News Mix' as it were.

M

You forgot this again Geronimo . Thoughts

M

Geromino

Originally posted by Gerry
Geronimo, nobody is buying your high horse bull****. It's quite obvious to everyone else on this thread there is a problem with ignoring domestic terrorism, while covering every move that al queda do or do not make in massive amounts of hype and scaremongering.
Your "in-depth" knowledge of newspaper marketing somehow doesn't make up for failing to address the points that people have brought up. Yes, the newspapers are giving the people what they want to read. But a lot of these people don't know any better. If they wanted to hear about international affairs, they could pick up other newspapers. But they are content to live in ignorant bliss.

Why would a newspaper give a reader what they do not want to read? You just answered your own question. However, newspapers are not the only source of news or news analysis, now isn't it. Because of the internet, I have (and everybody who has access to a computer, text messaging, PDA that would have internet access, cable, and satellite) a great variety of where I get can get my news, be highly selective of which news source I trust/use, or more specifically which news story I deem news worthy to me.

I am not asking you to agree, disagree, care, flip off, or whatever else you think of. Frankly, I would not give two droplings of fly dung of what you think. I saw some posters going off on a rant without having, or appear to have (my observation only without a giving a judgement), any knowledge of how American media operates. I gave you what I know and observed. To think I was giving an insult only shows your upmost and unqualified contempt of a society in general and I considered it flatly racist in nature.

Contrast that with a "lefty" area like the bay area, with papers like the SF Chronicle. People there seem to be much better informed, and give a **** about what happens outside their own backyard.

And yet they did not report the event that has gotten everybody on this particular thread in a conundrum. Neither has the BBC, Guardian, or other lefty newspapers that I know of.

Maybe you could explain to us stupid judgemental europeans the other factors which control what is deemed newsworthy, such as who pulls the strings behind the scenes, which corporations own which papers. That might be enlightening.

Here is something for you as well as others:

"Deciding What's News : A Study of CBS Evening News, NBC Nightly News, Newsweek and Time" by Herbert Gans, "The Global Media: The Missionaries of Global Capitalism (Media Studies)" by by Ed Herman, Robert Waterman McChesney, Edward S. Herman, "The Media in Black and White" by Edited by Everette E. Dennis and Edward C. Pease, and "Inventing Reality: The Politics of the Mass Media" by Michael Parenti.

The first book is highly recommended although a bit old. The other two will answer the question unless of course you still believe that Americans who do not think politically like you are sons*******es

spongebob

Originally posted by Geromino

Neither has the BBC, Guardian, or other lefty newspapers that I know of.

I linked the Guardian report in my first post. Here it is again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1118162,00.html

quote:

---

Originally posted by Muck
You forgot to mention that local media in Georgia or Idaho would not report on KKK/Militias in Georgia or Idaho simply because they are dangerous nutters, armed to the teeth, who would quit happily shoot or blow up the editor or reporter who did so. Therefore local right wing activity is simply airbrushed from the 'News Mix' as it were.

...so

Why are these guys antics not in the myriad local media either ? Fear?

M

Geromino

Originally posted by Muck
I linked the Guardian report in my first post. Here it is again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1118162,00.html

quote:

---

Originally posted by Muck
You forgot to mention that local media in Georgia or Idaho would not report on KKK/Militias in Georgia or Idaho simply because they are dangerous nutters, armed to the teeth, who would quit happily shoot or blow up the editor or reporter who did so. Therefore local right wing activity is simply airbrushed from the 'News Mix' as it were.

...so

Why are these guys antics not in the myriad local media either ? Fear?

M

First, I want to thank you for the web link and my apologies for not replying until now.

It is hard for me to state of the specific area in question why it was not reported extensively. I would have to had lived in the area to comment specifically However, part of it may be fear, but part of it has to do with the perception that law enforcement did their job and that is all is required in reporting which was the case based on the article:

Mr Potok said. The arrests were announced locally in Texas but received hardly any press coverage.

The story could have gotten more coverage if no other and more important events (and I am limiting to Al-Queda but all news events) was being reported. But that is my honest opinion though. Personally, I am glad the couple from Texas got caught and deserve the maximum sentence. Hopefully the judge will agree with assessment.

spongebob

The Houston Chronicle is a big quality newspaper in Texas. On the 8th of January when the story came up about the nutters plea bargain there was much ado over the Fastow family plea bargains and the Enron case....not surprising since the Fastows presided over the evaporation of Billions of dollars from the Houston economy.

Still, you'd expect that WMD in the wild in Texas would be newsworthy .

The Conspiritors were Bruey and Krar and Feltus

Dallas is nearer to the area where they were caught, The Dallas Forth Worth Star-Telegram is a local midmarket/quality newspaper, there is no mention of the Nutters there either, or their conviction .

The UK has the same population(ish) as Texas. You may take it that the sentencing of local nutters found in posession of WMD would have made the newspapers there, but not in Texas I see. Since this thread started we have seen a case where US security personnel appear to have allowed a man with bullets onto a London bound plane owned by a British airline.

Lets look at the Texas newspaper fronts again

Nothing in Dallas Here or Here

Nothing in Houston Here or Here

Now if the Brits had allowed the man with the bullets onto a US bound and Owned plane there would have been calls for Airstrikes on the Brits in some quarters of the US.....not least in hicksville Texas.

I have said it before and will again, the Local media in the US is most likely intimidated into silence (or collusion) by the KKK/Militias . The National media obviously does not care . Thats freedom loving in action....Texas style.

M

M

Geromino

Originally posted by Muck
The Houston Chronicle is a big quality newspaper in Texas. On the 8th of January when the story came up about the nutters plea bargain there was much ado over the Fastow family plea bargains and the Enron case....not surprising since the Fastows presided over the evaporation of Billions of dollars from the Houston economy.

Still, you'd expect that WMD in the wild in Texas would be newsworthy .

The Conspiritors were Bruey and Krar and Feltus

Dallas is nearer to the area where they were caught, The Dallas Forth Worth Star-Telegram is a local midmarket/quality newspaper, there is no mention of the Nutters there either, or their conviction .

The UK has the same population(ish) as Texas. You may take it that the sentencing of local nutters found in posession of WMD would have made the newspapers there, but not in Texas I see. Since this thread started we have seen a case where US security personnel appear to have allowed a man with bullets onto a London bound plane owned by a British airline.

Lets look at the Texas newspaper fronts again

Nothing in Dallas Here or Here

Nothing in Houston Here or Here

First, I am not about to discuss anything with the Enron plea bargaining at this time. I will save that for a later time. I did a little checking and have found via the google search by using the three conspirators last names. Let me give you some of my results:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/state/7660315.htm
http://newjersey.indymedia.org/newswire/ display/10266/index.php
http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/ ny-usplot083616433jan08,0,7143561.story?coll=ny-news-print
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/tsw/ stories/123103dntswtxbomb.f45a3440.html
http://www.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel03/texas111303.htm
http://www.adl.org/Learn/news/extremist_chemical.asp
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1054025/posts
http://www.charleston.net/stories/010804/ter_07terror.shtml
http://www.muhajabah.com/islamicblog/avantgo/ entry.php?blog_id=1&entry_id=7712

There were a little over 500 hits when I did a google search of using Krur, Bruey, and Feltus. I do not know why I did not think of this before, but I did. From what I saw, it was reported quite extensively in the US. The FBI even gave a press release on their arrest and conviction.

Now if the Brits had allowed the man with the bullets onto a US bound and Owned plane there would have been calls for Airstrikes on the Brits in some quarters of the US.....not least in hicksville Texas.

The Texas incident was about three nutcases and wannabe terrorists in East Texas that made a stupid mistake as mailing an illegal package via the mail which thankfully was sent to the wrong address. I do have two concerns about the USPS (United States Post Office). First, when the package went through the mail, it should have been scanned and verification of the documents (normal proceedure). According to the news releases that I just listed, those documents were faked. Someone dropped the ball and that is what the newspaper needs to focus on this event. The example you gave would have been a classic security official dropping the ball. An internal investigation would be required and if the official made the mistake or did not follow proper proceedure, then his/her ass should have been canned. Furthermore, I would expect nothing less of that in the USPS and the Postal Inspector who reviewed the documents and gave the o.k to deliver the package. One of my pet peeves is incompetence of not following established protocol and proceedures when your job and duties dictate that you follow them.

bonkey

Originally posted by Geromino
I saw some posters going off on a rant without having, or appear to have (my observation only without a giving a judgement), any knowledge of how American media operates.

Thats funny, because before you felt the need to offer the more media-operation-educated opinion, I would have read most of the posts as a scathing criticism of how American media is working.....or not working.

jc

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Geromino
There were a little over 500 hits when I did a google search of using Krur, Bruey, and Feltus. I do not know why I did not think of this before, but I did. From what I saw, it was reported quite extensively in the US. The FBI even gave a press release on their arrest and conviction.

No one is claiming that the news was not covered at all. No doubt in three months if you do your search again you’ll find this page listed too. However, this story was not covered to the same degree that a similar story involving foreign, typically Muslim, individuals would have been mentioned. Had Bruey, Krar or Feltus been Muslim, it would have been announced from the steps of the US justice department. Instead they were announced locally in Texas but received hardly any press coverage or attention by the US justice department when compared with similar cases.

There is absolutely no argument that could justify such inconsistency when dealing with this case compare to a War On Terror™ case; not only by way of press coverage, but also in how it was publicized (or not) by the US justice department itself.

The bottom line is that it just was not a front-page news story when it frankly should have been. And I don’t care how many times you find it on Google, because when it happened it wasn’t the top story.

Redleslie

Originally posted by The Corinthian
However, this story was not covered to the same degree that a similar story involving foreign, typically Muslim, individuals would have been mentioned. Had Bruey, Krar or Feltus been Muslim, it would have been announced from the steps of the US justice department.

Not only that, but the media (and the justice dept) have been consistently reporting any kind of rumour about 'imminent' terrorist attacks. A while ago, the Onion did a piece on this phenomenon ("Terrorism 'Not Likely' Cause Of Fire At Local Laundromat.") which tragically is not online anymore for some reason.

Originally posted by Geromino
The Texas incident was about three nutcases and wannabe terrorists in East Texas

What's the difference between a wannabe terrorist and a proper one? The 9/11 gang were wannabe terrorists right until they crashed the planes were they not?

I do have two concerns about the USPS (United States Post Office).

So the real story is not the huge bomb, it's that the guys down at the post office were slacking?

spongebob

Originally posted by Geromino
The Texas incident was about three nutcases and wannabe terrorists in East Texas that made a stupid mistake as mailing an illegal package via the mail which thankfully was sent to the wrong address.

Get your blinkers off man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Texas case was about possesion of WMD and other weaponry on a vast scale . I supose the 800Kg of Sodium Cyanide was intended to deal with a cockroach infestation somehwere ...was it !?

The Guardian (liberally linked above)

"When investigators searched a storeroom rented by Krar and Bruey in Noonday, 100 miles east of Dallas, they found half a million rounds of ammunition, 65 pipebombs and briefcases that could be detonated by remote control, as well as 800g of almost pure sodium cyanide . "

IS THIS NORMAL IN TEXAS

If it was it could explain the lack of media coverage but I suspect it is abnormal even by Texan standards, never mind what the northern states would allow. The IRA hardly used "half a million rounds of ammunition" in its entire campaign from the late 1960's to the early 1990's for Gods sake

Half a million rounds is a lot of Terror IMO .

M

Sarky

I think I'll start a newspaper. Every edition, the front page story will be "Things are super, really!"

I shall surely make millions.

Geromino

Originally posted by bonkey
Thats funny, because before you felt the need to offer the more media-operation-educated opinion, I would have read most of the posts as a scathing criticism of how American media is working.....or not working.

jc

Based upon the assumption, by most, that it was not widely reported in the US. I took that assumption and tried to gvie my two cents worth based on my understanding of the three resources (books) that I gave. Tell me Bonkey, would you want a scathing crticism of the inner workings of a nuclear reactor made by a local farmer or one who has at least worked in the field and written a book about it? From what I read from the posts, it sounded more like being in a local cantina or pool hall with a half dozen people shooting the bull and being half assed drunk at the same time. But that is my own opinion.

However, as I said before, it is a different culture in the US than that of Europe. What is reported in the US or its news intensity is not exactly what is reported in the same degree in Europe. That is the simpliest and easiest observation that one can make without going into a hissy fit over one ********* story. Trying to judge the culture via the media and placing a value to that culture is inherently arrogant, racist, immoral, judgemental, and ignorant, and was not a overt criticism of American media. And as I have said before, I have been to other countries that are completely different from my own and I do not place a judgement on that culture or that particular aspect of that culture even when I do not completely understand it myself. If you do not learn that basic tenet in international traveling, you have no business in traveling outside your local bar (pub).

Take this for what its worth Bonkey. It is not meant to be insulting or abusive even though I bear a huge brunt of abusiveness on this board simply because of my different political values.

Geromino

Originally posted by Sarky
I think I'll start a newspaper. Every edition, the front page story will be "Things are super, really!"

I shall surely make millions.

There was only one newspaper that only reported positive news and it only lasted for a few weeks. I believe it was started in the 1980's out of Sacramento, California. But I cannot remember the name of the newspaper or the owner.

Geromino

Originally posted by The Corinthian
There is absolutely no argument that could justify such inconsistency when dealing with this case compare to a War On Terror™ case; not only by way of press coverage, but also in how it was publicized (or not) by the US justice department itself.

The bottom line is that it just was not a front-page news story when it frankly should have been. And I don’t care how many times you find it on Google, because when it happened it wasn’t the top story.

But the more important question is what was the top story on Jan 8th when the story broke out? The biggest story on Jan 8th was President Bush's new immigration policy that has gotten conservatives and liberals in an uproar, which by the way got extensive coverage with analysis, points, and counter points. I think this story alone would have preempted the news story in quesiton from getting front page news. Other stories include an Anti-Dean ad by the other contending Democratic hopefuls, IMF warning about the impact of the US economy and general economic news, A remap of the Texas congressional districts (Dallas Morning News), and general election coverage. As far as being inconsistent with reporting, that applies to every paper in every nation in every aspect. This goes with my argument that newspapers will print only what their readers want to read. If the Irish people want to see their prime minister picking his butt, then the newspapers are going to print that article or articles ranging from one point of view to another regardless of what other deemable news might appear. Furthermore, the KKK are freaks of conscience, if they have one. Yes, they are nutcases first and wannabe terrorists second. The KKK has not had a general fear placed upon the public since the 1960's and most in the US of all races want to keep it that way. As long as they do not commit whatever act they were planning, then most people just ignore them and their antics. If we pay attention, their antics will get worse and their terrorist intentions will become reality. That is how it works around here or at least from my perspective.

Geromino

Originally posted by Muck
Get your blinkers off man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Texas case was about possesion of WMD and other weaponry on a vast scale . I supose the 800Kg of Sodium Cyanide was intended to deal with a cockroach infestation somehwere ...was it !?

The Guardian (liberally linked above)

"When investigators searched a storeroom rented by Krar and Bruey in Noonday, 100 miles east of Dallas, they found half a million rounds of ammunition, 65 pipebombs and briefcases that could be detonated by remote control, as well as 800g of almost pure sodium cyanide . "

IS THIS NORMAL IN TEXAS

If it was it could explain the lack of media coverage but I suspect it is abnormal even by Texan standards, never mind what the northern states would allow. The IRA hardly used "half a million rounds of ammunition" in its entire campaign from the late 1960's to the early 1990's for Gods sake

Half a million rounds is a lot of Terror IMO .

M

I have no blinders on in this story in particular. I typically ignore the KKK and their antics and allow the law enforcement to deal with them when they cross certain and specific barriers of civility. In the US, you have the freedom to associate with whomever you please. It does not matter whether you join a Communist Party or the KKK, tax protestor group, or some off-the-wall militia group. When certain groups cross certain threasholds of civility, like the instance we are discussing, then most Americans allow the law enforcement to take over. That is the trust we have with our local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies. Only in particular instances in particular regions is where citizens take the law into their own hands. For example, in Arizona a group of ranchers have formed "citizen patrols" to dissuade illegal immigrants from crossing the border. I have concern about those citizens doing vigilante justice with these particular issue and would want the proper authorities to do their job.

Is it a large amount of ammunition and explosives? Yes! But I want the law enforcement to do their job when they cross those particular lines of civility. Would I want the law enforcement to have acted sooner? You will get no argument from me. And from what I understand, it was not the first time that these three have been in trouble, but nothing in comparison to what they were caught with. This has to go with the perception of due process, a foreign dotrine in Europe I take it. You can be areested like that of Krur and associated with a hate group, but the police cannot exericse McCarthyism tactics and enforcement. That violates the Due Process clause of the Fourth Admendment.

sceptre

Originally posted by Geromino
This has to go with the perception of due process, a foreign dotrine in Europe I take it.

See, it's comments like this that just make you look silly.

Geromino

Originally posted by sceptre
See, it's comments like this that just make you look silly.

Not to mention most of yours LOL!

sceptre

Originally posted by Geromino
Not to mention most of yours LOL!

I don't quite understand that. Can you rephrase that first clause or sentence (before the implied period or comma) and put a verb in there somewhere? Perhaps a few links as well, there's a good chap.