Restricted Bikes?

giftgrub

can anyone tell me anything about having a bike restricted to 33bhp.

im on a scooter at the moment and want to get something bigger but dont want to get shafted by the poor insurance companies ( ooh feel sorry for us we only made 180 million quid last year!!)

how does restriction work?, also i heard that some companies dont care if the bike is restricted or not they just quote you full whack anyway, is that true?

Kazujo

The only type of restriction that the insurance companies recognise is factory restriction where the bike leaves the factory with the restrictor in ie. Bandit 600, SV650 and hornet 600/900.

All of these (I think there are some more) bikes are available in a restricted form which the insurance companies will honour.

I have the restricted bandit, it's group five insurance as most of them are and it still has plenty of power.

Typedef

True there's another type of restriction though.

I had my bandit rescrited, it had a few valves placed into the air box, which stoped it getting enough air to go past the 33bhp rating.


You could always get a CB500, which wouldn't need a restrictor.

a_ominous

Originally posted by Typedef
True there's another type of restriction though.

I had my bandit rescrited, it had a few valves placed into the air box, which stoped it getting enough air to go past the 33bhp rating.


You could always get a CB500, which wouldn't need a restrictor.

2 things; as Kazujo said, only factory installed restrictors are recognized by insurance companies. This is because the few valves / washers you had so easily installed are also so easily removed giving you a fully powered bike.

According to my search on the web, CB500 puts out 41 kW (54 BHP) from a bike that weighs 170 kg which means a power to weight ratio of 0.24 kW /kg which is 50% higher than the restriction on provisional licence / full licence. The licence restriction is 0.16 kW/kg.

MojoMaker

FYI...regarding the restriction of motorcycles...the rule is not "sub 33bhp OR p/w less than 0.16" it is in fact "sub 33bhp AND p/w less than 0.16". It is a uniquely Irish interpreation of this rule that allows us to THINK we are ok if we drive a bike over 33bhp as long as it is heavy-ish and comes under the p/w ratio of 0.16.

Be careful. You will not be asked this over the phone by any insurance company.

Btw - last Honda spec sheet I read (2001 model) said the CB500 put out about 58bhp, so yes it most definitely requires restriction. All City Honda (among others) have done in this country is muddy the waters considerably, obviously to sell bikes. True, a precedent has yet to be set here and this law tested afaik, but it stands nonetheless. It is an EU-wide directive, yet for some reason Ireland interprets it on the street as meaning something completely different...:rolleyes:

In France if you tried to argue to a copper that your Shadow 750 only had a p/w ration of 0.15 he would confiscate your bike on the spot citing the fact that you have broken the rule (>33bhp)

a_ominous

FYI...regarding the restriction of motorcycles...the rule is not "sub 33bhp OR p/w less than 0.16" it is in fact "sub 33bhp AND p/w less than 0.16". It is a uniquely Irish interpreation of this rule that allows us to THINK we are ok if we drive a bike over 33bhp as long as it is heavy-ish and comes under the p/w ratio of 0.16.

I see your point, but IME bike shops are selling bikes based on the "33 BHP or power or weight <= 0.16". And have heard of people going for test on big bikes and being refused the test because the bike doesn't meet licence requirements.

Would like to see the bike shops being visited and the law being clarified. Consider case where person walks into shop and bike shop tells them A licence allows them to ride a restricted Hayabusa (extreme example, but you get my drift). The bike could be restriced to 33BHP or p/w of 0.16 (more preferable).

But since there is zero enforcement of traffic laws at the moment, riders can get away with it. Would love to see some restrictions on car drivers too. Rich kid gets BFO car for 21st birthday. Shouldn't happen unless he's proven capbable.

MojoMaker

The secondary requirement of p/w ratio < 0.16 is in place to specifically nab lightweight sports bikes that while the deliver < 33bhp they are considered to be too fast for learner riders, a case in point is the full power versions of the Honda NSR125 or the Aprilia RS125. Both make about 28-30hp but being so light they are quite powerful and quick and can be trouble in the hands of a brand new rider.

The interpreation of the rule here is very, very lax and shops like City Honda are currently capitalising on the confusion and selling unrestricted CB500s, Africa Twins, Shadow 750's to the general public 'cos they realise nobody over the age of 21 wants to potter around on 125s forever. The insurance companies are conveniently turning a blind eye to this rule as well since it means elevated premia allround. I had a chat with the MD of the Honda importer about how a stock CB500 could be advertised as 'suitable for restricted A licence holders'. A 15 minute conversation yielded no definitive solution. Very, very grey area. In this country we conveniently interpret the restriction as meaning one or the other because it is not specifically stamped one AND the other. The driving testers are wise to this, hence your experience a_ominous.

At the end of the day it probably doesn't mean a whole lot as this country is run on the principle that ignorance is the best defence against anything. So in the meantime, happy motoring!

sparkite

i think its a messed up system cause what anyone i know does is simply tell the insurance companies that the restricters are on the bike and really they have taken them off.they wont know unless they get a mechanic to check the bike or if they ride the bike themselves!

Typedef

Originally posted by a_ominous
2 things; as Kazujo said, only factory installed restrictors are recognized by insurance companies. This is because the few valves / washers you had so easily installed are also so easily removed giving you a fully powered bike.

You had better tell Carole Nash about that, because they insured me with just such a restrictor installed, Suzuki Bandit 600 00D.

Oh and on the CB500 I man just parroting what the salesman told me last time I looked at buying a different bike... August 2002.

giftgrub

You had better tell Carole Nash about that, because they insured me with just such a restrictor installed, Suzuki Bandit 600 00D.

how much less was the restricted quote for the bike?

a_ominous

Originally posted by Typedef
You had better tell Carole Nash about that, because they insured me with just such a restrictor installed, Suzuki Bandit 600 00D.

Oh and on the CB500 I man just parroting what the salesman told me last time I looked at buying a different bike... August 2002.

I stand corrected. Hibernian Insurance will only recognize a factory resticted bike. I've not had any dealings with CN except to get a quote at renewal time. Their TP quotes have been higher than FC with Hibernian strangely enough.

But Hibernian don't appear to insure bigger more expensive bikes. So I'll probably have to go with CN at some stage.

MojoMaker

On the contrary, Hibernian are much more competitive for big bore sports bikes than CN. If you have a small bike (<500cc) you'd be better off going to CN as Hib rates are crazy for small bikes.

Btw - we are talking about insurance companies recognising only factory-fitted restrictors for the purposes of reclassifying the bike to a lower insurance category. E.g - A Bandit 600 is Hibernian group 10, the factory restricted Bandit 600 UK3 model is Hibernian group 5.

Lastly, no insurance company will ask you about restrictors, at least not in my varied experience with them. Did someone specifically point out to you that you had to have one fitted in order to purchase insurance from them, or did you volunteer the information to them?

Typedef

Originally posted by giftgrub
how much less was the restricted quote for the bike?

No less, I had a restricted license so, that was the only remit CN would insure me under.

Typedef

Originally posted by MojoMaker
Lastly, no insurance company will ask you about restrictors, at least not in my varied experience with them. Did someone specifically point out to you that you had to have one fitted in order to purchase insurance from them, or did you volunteer the information to them?

Yeah well I bought my first Super 4 when I was 21 and 'yes' the company most certainly wanted to see proof of restriction.

Also, most of the shops, I've been to are pretty strict for young riders vis-a-vis enforcing the restriciton when the thing is rolling out of the shop.

Now... if you choose to remove the restrctor at a later date...

a_ominous

Some imformation on 33BHP33bhp restriction.

will add this to FAQ.

a_ominous

@MojoMaker
this restriction topic has been annoying me as has not getting a definitive answer about it. But I believe I have found a definitive answer.
On the Dept of Transport website there is a page which I found that says
"25kW (33BHP) or power to weight <= 0.16"

It's in this PDF document (page 4) 312kB

Found it by searching main government site for "25kW"

Hope that settles it. Anyhoo, it'll do for me if I can find a nice bigger bike over the next few months...

Canaboid

Slightly related question, but does anyone know what happens when I show up for my test on a CB500 ?

Typedef

I showed up on a Gezuki Bandito 6 and passed.

So long as an insurance company will cover you, it implies you are road-legal.

The only requirement to my knowledge is that you have to sit the test on the class of bike you are getting the license for... so for example sitting the A license test on a 125 is not allowed... nor is sitting the test on a GSXR 750.

a_ominous

Canaboid I cannot answer your question definitively. But if you turn up on a CB500 or other bike that is over 33bhp then you'll have it restricted and a restriction cert? So bring your cert along too. Not obliged to, but you should still be able to do the test.
As I said earlier, I've heard third or fourth hand that guys turned up on 600 or 750cc bikes and were refused. Reason given was power > 33bhp. I doubt arguing with a tester before the test will help your cause that because power/weight ratio <=0.16 you are legally allowed to drive said bike and to do the test. They're only human and will resent being to look foolish on the job.

The whole restriction thing is a bit farcical as it doesn't apply to cars. It requires driving testers to have a reasonable techical knowledge of bikes and their power and bikes represent a very small number of licences on the roads. Something like 45-50 thousand bike licences and over a million car licences.

Canaboid

Thanks for the prompt answers guys.

A_O, there is no stipulation stating that a bike must be accompanied by a restriction cert when showing up for the test.
Can the examiner easily tell if a restricter has been fitted ? I wouldn't have thought so but I'm no expert.

MojoMaker

Originally posted by a_ominous
@MojoMaker
this restriction topic has been annoying me as has not getting a definitive answer about it. But I believe I have found a definitive answer.
On the Dept of Transport website there is a page which I found that says
"25kW (33BHP) or power to weight <= 0.16"

It's in this PDF document (page 4) 312kB

Found it by searching main government site for "25kW"

Hope that settles it. Anyhoo, it'll do for me if I can find a nice bigger bike over the next few months...

a_ominous, what you have to remember is that this directive means you cannot break one of the stipulations or the other. So you are effectively bound by both.

Odd as it may seem, the use of the word "or" in the above legislation actually means "and", i.e. you cannot break either of them. So, sorry, you're out of luck. The only way to get around this is to go do the test, pass, and wait out the term, unless legislation changes in the mean time. What kills me is no provision for doing DAS here.

batman_oh

do not attempt to go to carole nash if u want to be insured on anything bigger than a 400 sports bike before u are 26, they told me they were doin me a favour insuring me on rs250 at 23, and that i would have 2 b at least 27 b4 moving to a new cbr600 or r6
aon on the other hand would have no problem insuring me now on a gsxr1000, carole nash are way cheaper for small bikes and commuter types and stuff, but aon are far cheaper for big sports bikes, carole nash simply wont insure u on them(thats why im goin back to aon this november)
also i was never asked to show any restrcition cert to gte insured on the rs250, i have a full licence but only for about 5 months, and was drivin it on a provisonal on the same policy as my rs125, that has about 70bhp(since evry1 is quotin crank figures!) and weighs 140kg so goes waaay over the power to weight thing
and i know of loads of people on big bikes that never had to show restriction to get insured aswell

a_ominous

I'm glad to see I wasn't imagining 'issues' with Carole Nash. Typedef pointed out that I have mentioned Hibernian quite a bit in my posts.

regarding insurance, I think one of the terms of the insurance is that you and your bike comply with the law. And that includes restriction so it's not explicit in the insurance contract but gives them a get-out clause if you have an accident with an unresticted bike and your licence is restricted.

MojoMaker

Bingo.