cannabis legislation

SeeYouJimmy

what are your opinions regarding current cannabis legislation?

interesting to see what the majority of people think..

KlodaX

it would bring so much money into the country ... create so many jobs... tourisim would double....

if Amsterdam can do it .. why can't we?

echomadman

Legalise it, and I will advertise it...

I'm more in favour of decriminalisation than out and out legalisation, thus meaning that current users won't have to worry about having their lives wrecked over a pointless drug conviction, without a sudden dramatic upsurge in cannabis usage that would just provide ammo for the anti-drugs lobbyists.
Also as a nation i really dont know how we'd handle it, look at our drink related problems (not for a second saying that cannabis causes the same type of trouble but...).

Decriminalisation wouldn't hurt anyone though, except maybe force the cops to arrest serious criminals instead of poor unlucky stoners

KlodaX

as a nation i really dont know how we'd handle it, look at our drink related problems

if I knew I could go to my local coffee shop for a few smokes as opposed to going to the pub .. I probably would ...

might reduce "our drink related problems"...

Stark

Was going to list all the arguments in favour of decrimilization, but there's so many. It would do wonders for the country. Solve prison overpopulation, more garda resources for real problems. Less work for scumbags...

Can anyone think of a good argument against (as opposed to the "it's bad for your health" crap).

Blackjack

Only reasonable argument I can think of (against) is that AFAIK there is no way to detect if somone has been smoking in the last few hours, so Drugged driving would be difficult to detect.
That said, I appreciate that the most likely scenario is for a stoned person would be driving too slow as opposed to driving dangerously, but nonetheless still be a danger on the roads.

Stark

Give them simple tasks like the American police do, reciting abcs etc. They're supposed to be pretty accurate. Then you can drag them down to the police station for a few hours until they're ready to be tested.

Blackjack

Probably- however, I believe that the THC (active ingredient) stays in your system for several weeks, so if you got completely trollied a couple of nights before you could probably be technically still stoned, if tested.
The ABC testing is also open to abuse and all it takes is for 1 cop to either take the piss or get it wrong to throw the system into question.

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by KlodaX
it would bring so much money into the country ... create so many jobs... tourisim would double....

if Amsterdam can do it .. why can't we?

I'm in favour of decriminalisation of it but I really would not like to see Dublin becoming like Amsterdam. While we'd doubtless attract many tourists, we'd probably dissuade others from coming as a direct result.

wow if that's the kind of tourists you really want...


only knackers go to Amsterdam. Stoners always just talk about going to Amsterdam.



If it was to stay illegal, I'm quite happy with that, because it's pretty damn cheap compared to drink etc. I don't want to have to pay 10€ for a joint in some smelly knacker-infested coffee shop.

But then again if it was made legal, I suppose I could always just grow my own...

Ajnag

First off I see a lot of opionated garbage about amsterdam, I lived in holland for the past year, and have visited it on many occasions.First off the center is tourist orientated, and in fact is not the living reality of dam life, not to mention dutch life.Second of all there plenty of wealty kids there and not many "scumbags" in terms of tourist.Third of all, despite the abundance of dodgy characters such as dealers, perverts and junkies, there is far less chance of being assulted in the damn then there is in dublin, the police have a chopper overhead constantly, and use every means possible to protect there the tourist cash cow.Amsterdam has some of the finest archtecture,culture,bars and of course coffeeshops in europe, all ya have to do is move your ass out of the immidiate center.

Also coffeeshops exist in Britian, Switzerland and now vancover in canada, so holland is not the only reference case in reguards to legalisation.My argument for legalisation is that the scientific merits in terms of its inherent danger are insignificant in relation to freely available drugs(paracetomol - liver failure not to mention the many others which also have fatal consequences), also as long as cannabis remains illegal and as such taboo, its users hence have less access to information and equipment required for safe consumption instead of just smoking it.

Also decrim is not a viable option as it leaves the cannabis economy in the hands of organised crime for the most part, and dosent allow for legal supply.what should be done IMO is a study on the best way of reintegrating cannabis into legal society, without undue consequences.then a timeline should be set and Implemented, but first you need reasonable people in govt, maybe mcGreedy could be convinced in economic terms.But for the moment, I say grow yer own as its easy and far better then supporting the criminal market.Beats the socks of soapbar too . :ninja:

dont get caught tho :ninja: :ninja: :ninja:

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Ajnag
Third of all, despite the abundance of dodgy characters such as dealers, perverts and junkies, there is far less chance of being assulted in the damn then there is in dublin,

Exactly, now imagine how worse Dublin would become if we had an influx of these characters....it's bad enough as it is.

sovtek

Originally posted by echomadman
Also as a nation i really dont know how we'd handle it, look at our drink related problems (not for a second saying that cannabis causes the same type of trouble but...).

A large part of the drink problem is derived from the Victorian type laws that are also used in the case of drugs to tell adults how they should live their lives.

Ajnag

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
Exactly, now imagine how worse Dublin would become if we had an influx of these characters....it's bad enough as it is.

oh and there already isnt an abundance of criminality both local and now being imported, westies, triads and so on. :rolleyes:

Also were discussing the legalisation of cannabis, not that of red light districts and not the development of dublin tourism in the same vain as that of amsterdam.Also are you saying that the maintaining the flow of cannacash to the current criminals is helping?

There are plenty of honest tax paying joes waiting for the chance to take the cannabis economy from the current scumbags running the show.

Winters

Originally posted by utility_
only knackers go to Amsterdam. Stoners always just talk about going to Amsterdam.

The words of someone who has never been nor seen...

The thing with Amsterdam is how its sold. You can only buy it at licenced "coffeeshops". i]Coffeeshop sells grass etc. and also does drinks. Café's only do drinks[/i. At the moment there is somewhere around 300 licenced outlets in Amsterdam alone. It is actually illegal to have in possession/be sold more then 5 grammes of cannabis in a coffeeshop. And also it can only be sold to people over 18 etc. And remember cannabis is the only legal drug over there (well, mushies too). Cocain etc. are all still illegal ... but in the red Light District there are guys on every corner trying to sell you some ..

If it was implemented in Ireland we would have to do something similar. Only available at licenced "coffeeshops" and limits on the amount that can be sold per person etc. Also I think some sort anti-begging laws to be introduced to stop people haning around the licenced "coffeeshops" begging everyone for some money.

Thing is though. It is a lot better legalised and controlled then illegal and uncrontrolled i believe. And also not to mention the stuff in Amsterdam will actuall get you high. Not like the crap we get here that just makes you depressed. The fact that you can actually get advise from the guys working there is also a bonus. They advise you on the usual "dont drink and smoke" and stuff but also tell you of the differant kinds of stuff and the differant effects. It is useful to know about the stuff before you go head first into it.

And Utility_ .... Amsterdam is filled with stoners and stag night parties, very few knackers. It is a crazy city. Also on prices. The average for Grass is about €6.50 or €6.60 a gramme. You can get "Thai gold" at €4 all the way up to "Edelweiss" or "Snow Flake" [which are quite crazy] at €6.90. Most are about the €6.60 mark. A gramme should last a single person a few days at least depending on how much you use. Hash is more expensive usually about €8 to €10. And for those non smokers you can get space cakes at €3.50 or so .... which are guranteed to get you well mashed. But it takes 2 hours to kick in.

that was meant to be a joke...


a gramme lasting a few days?! it'd want to be pretty heavy shít. I don't really mind Irish hash that much. It still gets you totally blazed if you use enough, and there's always the chance of scoring some crappy weed.


Personally I'd love to go to Amsterdam, but the only problem being I don't think I could ever go back to picking bits of plastic out of soapbar ever again after sampling some of the finer specimens over there...


Did you try and bring any back to Ireland?

Winters

Originally posted by utility_
Did you try and bring any back to Ireland?

Nope.


And yes it can be quite heavy '****' depending on what you buy. The resin that you get here is really just scraping the barrell and will, well not ever give you a high or give you anything like what you get off grass. There is a distinct differance between the stuff over there and the stuff here. The main thing being you will actually get a proper high.

Also the space cakes make you go ga ga. Quite fantastic stuff. The thing is they take up to two hours to kick in. Many people dont know that. You can just be walking down the Dam along some fantastic canals and sights and suddenly it just hits you..... :eek:

And its very cheap to go to Amsterdam. I'd say you could easily do a weekend on €200 depending. Well worth it for the expierance.

rubadub

Originally posted by echomadman
I'm more in favour of decriminalisation than out and out legalisation,

the problem with decriminialistation is quality. imagine if all drugs were illegal but decriminalised you still have to buy from dodgy characters who are selling stuff with god knows what in it. imagine having to buy a pill they claim is aspirin which could be laced with caustic soda etc. there are many websites about the dangers of "soapbar" hash which can be extremely bad for your health.

people still seem to have strange ideas about amsterdam. i would rather meet 10 stoned scumbags in an alley than one drunk one. i feel far safer in amsterdam than dublin and have never seen any "knackers" there ever.
cannabis is illegal in holland so quality is still a big issue there especially with hash.

sovtek

Originally posted by Ajnag My argument for legalisation is that the scientific merits in terms of its inherent danger are insignificant in relation to freely available drugs(paracetomol - liver failure not to mention the many others which also have fatal consequences), also as long as cannabis remains illegal and as such taboo, its users hence have less access to information and equipment required for safe consumption instead of just smoking it.

No doubt, I remember reading a survey that found that over a hundred thousand people die from prescription drugs every year whilst a few thousand die from illicit drugs. Of course there was not one death from marijauna.
Legalise and control it like alcohol and cigarettes. I'd even include heroin, X and cocaine.

DougalMcGuire

Cannabis should be legalised, not decriminalised, because decriminalisation doesn't really change anything.
So many things to say, so little time to say them, but-

1) The government could take considerable taxes on sales AND importation AND growing(because it does have to come from somewhere). These taxes can be used to fund whatever Mr. McGreevy deems fit, even if that is more hospital staff to take care of beaten up drunks.

2) Dealers are drug dealers. They sell drugs, and cannabis is the main seller. Cocaine, heroin and E are often just sidelines to make extra- I know enough people who started selling the odd bit of dope to pay for their own, and have ended up selling whatever they can simply because their supplier shows them how much of a margin is in class A's. It turns into their profession. If dope is legalised, they won't need to meet that supplier in the first place. If they no longer have a market for cannabis, they will find their profits squeezed, and many will give up, or move into the legal field of growing/selling hash. This results in them paying part of their income in Tax.

3) It's not harmful unless consumed with wild abandon, but even then the effects mainly range from a slightly diminished memory to a bit of a cough. I don't honestly believe it can cause anything like many American studies have "shown". Burgers are worse- I know of lots of people who've died of heart attacks from a bad diet. Besides, there are precious few people out there who, given the option, will choose to spend all their time smoking. Those who do invariably still manage to have families and run businesses. Or study for degrees in college. Or create music and art, build houses, teach kids, look after their sick grannies, whatever! Being a stoner doesn't in any way inhibit the things you do, unless you actively want it to.

4)It is not a gate-way drug, but I can see why people think it is. Firstly, people who are too worried about possible bad effects to ever smoke a joint are simply not going to inject heroin. Anyone who IS going to want to get high on hard drugs is likely to want to get high on hash or grass, too. That doesn't mean hash or grass MAKES you want to take hard drugs, any more than drinking tea makes people move on to triple esspresso's.
Secondly, because cannabis is illegal the only place to get it is from dealers. Many of these dealers also sell class A's, and are unlikely to inform the punter that they don't really want to be messing around with addictive substances such as coke- after all, they want to make money, and there's no better salesman than one who's taking all the profit.
Punter" Give us a quarter of hash there mate"
Dealer "No hash on me- wanna buy some cocaine? it's really good"
Punter "It is?"

5) If cannabis was legalised and everybody could grow hemp, we could all be driving around using its oil for petrol, wearing longer lasting, higher quality hemp clothes produced in Ireland, and writing cheques made out of hemp paper to pay the small prices these products would cost. And all the while laughing because the Americans didn't think of it first, or rather outlawed it first.

In relation to "Drugged driving", almost all of my friends smoke dope. Plenty of them drive, before and after smoking lots, and I do mean lots, of hashish or grass. None of them has ever crashed or been involved in any accident while stoned: almost all of them have been involved in some kind of accident while sober. While stoned, 30 miles an hour seems pretty fast, and 50 is scary. People don't usually crash while doing 15 mph. Unless they're drunk.

Cannabis has never killed anybody in Ireland. A pint and a half of vodka, drunk straight, will have a good go at killing anyone. Many hundreds of people a year in this country die from drunk fights, drunk driving, just drinking. Which should really be illegal, alcohol or cannabis? Neither!
What we really need to ban is ignorance.

Originally posted by Winters
Nope.


And yes it can be quite heavy '****' depending on what you buy. The resin that you get here is really just scraping the barrell and will, well not ever give you a high or give you anything like what you get off grass. There is a distinct differance between the stuff over there and the stuff here. The main thing being you will actually get a proper high.

Also the space cakes make you go ga ga. Quite fantastic stuff. The thing is they take up to two hours to kick in. Many people dont know that. You can just be walking down the Dam along some fantastic canals and sights and suddenly it just hits you..... :eek:

And its very cheap to go to Amsterdam. I'd say you could easily do a weekend on €200 depending. Well worth it for the expierance.

Resin over here isn't as bad as you're making it out to be..seriously. Try a waterfall or a bucket bong with even a pretty small amount of it and you'll get seriously blown for a few hours. I used to not give it a chance either, but then again I'd only ever smoked it in joints.

rubadub

Originally posted by utility_
a gramme lasting a few days?! it'd want to be pretty heavy shít.

hash in the UK has been tested to an average of about 4% THC if you are lucky. in holland you can get real hash such as bubble hash which can be up to 40% THC almost oil like. so 1gram can be the equivalent of up to 10grams here. since you have to smoke 1/10th for the same effects it is far more healthy let alone that you are not inhaling all the contaminants that they mix in to make soapbar hash, such as tar, henna, oil etc

Camille

Totally in fav of legalisation. Dougal McGuires post says it all really. Also Amsterdam is a great city - felt totally safe there.
Have I not heard a nasty rumour, though, that it's all going to end there soon - because of the (similar to forthcoming Irish) anti-smoking laws?

rubadub

You will still be able to buy it in holland but you must smoke outside. i would say they will ignore the law in coffeeshops seeing as they already ignore the law saying that cannabis is illegal!

people in pubs here will complain if people smoke, i cant see people complaining about smokers in coffeeshops as people go there to smoke not drink, it would be like people in speakeasys in prohibition america complaining about people drinking

sovtek

Originally posted by Camille
Have I not heard a nasty rumour, though, that it's all going to end there soon - because of the (similar to forthcoming Irish) anti-smoking laws?

Is there any evidence that second hand smoke from weed causes cancer, much less first hand.

The Beer Baron

Is there any evidence that second hand smoke from weed causes cancer, much less first hand.

Well no, but who's gonna listen.
I do know 1st hand that 2nd hand smoke can get you completly wrecked just by sitting in the same room but that's not the point.

I don't think legalisation will ever come to pass in this country. We're still too conservative and suseptible to Sunday World scaremongering. tbh I wouldn't want it legalised. Ok, so if it was our net café would be converted into a stoner net café faster than you could say <cough! cough!> here! still, decriminalisation is the way. I'm with echo 100% on this, A, hash bars would never work here. B, Bertie and the boys would tax the **** out of it and personally, I don't smoke like I used to so in all fairness I'd just rather have the odd spliff with my mates and a few cans and get wrecked instead so it wouldn't make much of a difference to me.

Decriminalisation.
And a more liberal view on cannibis and more enlightened policy towards drugs, and proper education on the subject rather than the same, "they lead to harder drugs" crap we normally hear. I led meself to harder drugs thank you very much.

If nothing else of course, I'm going to also invoke the wisdom of Pete Tosh, who was always a proponant of medicinal marijuana. For some illnesses it's still the best thing in the world.

...rethinking...maybe if it was legalised it'd put an end to crappy deals and annoying scobes and ounces filled with plastic.

Legalise it. At the end of the day its alot better than getting drink and having a fight in the street/puking your guts on the street/spending 1/3 your wages a month on drink. Buy some gear for a weekend costing maybe twenty euros, and compare the pleasurable buzz you get to the one hundred euros you spend on going out (drink, cigs, taxi, nightclub costs etc). Besides if you're smoking you can still drive well, as opposed to drink.

For me legalising cannabis is the best option. But then i was in Amsterdam three times last year & have had less hassle in those 3 visits compared to my last two visits to Dublin.