The Lisp

Exit

Firstly, let me state that there is no offence intended, and this is a serious question.

Why do some gay men have that lisping kind of thing? Is it put on as some kind of status symbol? Because not all gay men have it. And if it's not put on, where does it come from?

oneweb

It'S not limited to gay men. Many men, regardleSS of Sexuality have Such a liSp. Some straight men have it, some camp men have it and some gay men have it.

Some blokes like to express their feminine side more and accentuate their s' to do so. Others just pronounce their s' clearly, and always have done. Just like different people say words like THAT or DAT or THASH or DASH, and people feel compelled to stereotype others into groups.

swiss

I assume by a lisp you mean the way some gay men tend to elongate certain vowels in an effeminate manner. Such as the phrase "I'm suuuuuper, thanks for aaaasking" as epitomised by Big Gay Al in South Park.

Honestly, I don't know why some men do it. I suspect that they don't even know that they're doing it and it just feels more natural or more comfortable to adopt that kind of vocal modulation, in the same way that it feels more natural for gay men to have a sexual attraction to other men. Whether this is genetic, societal or <insert whatever theory you have about the origins of homosexuality you have here> is still a mystery to me.

I don't have this 'lisp', nor do a lot of gay men I know. However, a few do. These tend to be the effeminate gay people that fit into the nice stereotypical mould that some straight (and gay) people tend to put gay people into. I highly doubt that it's a put on, because there seems to be no obvious reason why a gay man would put it on, unless he wanted to announce to people that he was gay, and there are more effective ways of doing this if that's what he really wants.

Exit

Yes, it was the Big Gay Al syndrome that I was asking about.

Actually come to think of it, you're probably right about it not being used to advertise a person's homosexuality. The only two openly gay men I've encountered (in college, and I never really spoke to them) both had these 'mannerisms'. But apparently, one of them (according to some story I heard) didn't realise he was gay until the 2nd year of college. However, most of the class knew/suspected he was gay as he had this 'lisp'.

So then, on a different issue, is the stereotype of effeminate gay men who like discos and Kylie and the like just a stereotype? As I just pointed out, I've a very limited experience of gay people so excuse my dumbness, so are there gay men who don't 'act gay'? Y'know, like rock music, sports, etc. and are only 'gay' in their sexual activities?

yellum

Some people naturally have a lisp but unfortunately too some people that identify as gay put on a lisp or all those other gay stereotypes (the mincing walk, the higher pitched voice, the tight t-shirts) as a way to advertise their sexuality besides having to explain themselves again and again.

Being honest it can be tiring at times to have to answer peoples questions on whether you have a girlfriend, or if you think the female office secretary has a fine ass, or be subjected to phrases such as "why wouldn't you do her, your not gay or something are you ?"

For some, having to explain your sexuality so often can be a right pain, especially when society isn't as open minded as it could be.

I'm not saying that everyone has a problem with this, but some do and either consciously or subconsciously acquire stereotypes that the straight world and gay world are happy to give us.

Its also a bit about ignorance in that gay guys believe to be gay you need to live the stereotype besides just deciding "I'm going to be me"

And yes Exit, as well as the "Gay-Acting" homosexuals you have the "Straight-Acting" ones too who try and distance themselves from anything remotely classed as homosexual.

"Dance me, nooo, I'm a manly man I am. "

"Rar yeah Rugby, Man United have a great rugby team, Brian O'Driscoll is a great centre-half, did you see the way he lobbed in that ball to Roy Keane last week against Bath ? "

People are people, gay or straight, we all have different views and different tastes, gay men like Kylie (Hi Moridin babe ! ) as do straight men but the straight men probably are afraid to admit it and just comment on her ass.

Exit

Ah ok, cheers for that yellum. To be honest, I'd never thought that people might advertise that they're gay just to get away from having to answer questions about their sexuality constantly. It kinda makes sense now.

You mentioned that "you have the "Straight-Acting" ones too who try and distance themselves from anything remotely classed as homosexual" So then, is it a selfconscious decision to do that, or am I reading your sentence the wrong way?

swiss

So then, is it a selfconscious decision to do that, or am I reading your sentence the wrong way?

I don't mean to speak for yellum, but in my experience some gay men do tend to eschew anything associated with homosexuality in an attempt to distance themselves from the stereotypes that persist about homosexuals.

The main point is that there are some pressures on gay people to act in a certain manner, and some react against this by acting in an opposite manner. It's not necessarily "right" or "wrong", but it hardly lends itself to the concept of a person acting in whatever manner makes them feel most comfortable.

However, the flip side of this is that some men (gay or straight) do tend to have overtly 'camp' or 'butch' mannerisms as a matter of course, and they get unfairly labelled as a result.

oneweb

Originally posted by swiss
Such as the phrase "I'm suuuuuper, thanks for aaaasking" as epitomised by Big Gay Al in South Park.

Ya said it so well, I almost wouldn't belive it...

I don't have this 'lisp'

Exit, there are people who are pretty much exactly like you in what they like, what they do, how they talk. The only single difference is that they date/fuçk the same gender. One or two ppl you know could be gay, you never know.

moridin

Originally posted by yellum
I'm not saying that everyone has a problem with this, but some do and either consciously or subconsciously acquire stereotypes that the straight world and gay world are happy to give us.

And yes Exit, as well as the "Gay-Acting" homosexuals you have the "Straight-Acting" ones too who try and distance themselves from anything remotely classed as homosexual.

People are people, gay or straight, we all have different views and different tastes, gay men like Kylie (Hi Moridin babe ! ) as do straight men but the straight men probably are afraid to admit it and just comment on her ass.

I don't remember ever discussing kylie with you Mr. Yellum-sir. If you're talking Kylie I'd actually prefer the non-recent suff though, like Confide in me or Where wild roses grow...

Anyway, back on topic (kinda)

The whole "Straight Acting" thing that people try and comvey pisses me off. I don't think I'm particularly camp, unless I get hyper and bouncy or someone gives me jellytots, but at the same time I really don't give a damn if someone thinks that I'm "Straight Acting" or not... I'm me, and if someone decides that they don't want to talk to me or whatever cos I'm not "Straight" enough, then that person really isn't worth the time of day as far as I'm concerned.

Often, a lot of the time those who are concerned about fancying "Straight Acting" guys, or obsessed with not coming off in any way camp, are those who are too insecure to accept themselves for who they are.

ixoy

Originally posted by moridin
I don't think I'm particularly camp, unless I get hyper and bouncy or someone gives me jellytots,

Must resist comment

but at the same time I really don't give a damn if someone thinks that I'm "Straight Acting" or not... I'm me, and if someone decides that they don't want to talk to me or whatever cos I'm not "Straight" enough, then that person really isn't worth the time of day as far as I'm concerned.

Yup, agreed. Let someone accept you for whom you are. Good. Don't start "acting" in any fashion - you shouldn't have to.

Often, a lot of the time those who are concerned about fancying "Straight Acting" guys, or obsessed with not coming off in any way camp, are those who are too insecure to accept themselves for who they are.

Okay, I might disagree with you here moridin. Firstly, some people prefer the "straight acting" type of guy. It says NOTHING about whether they're insecure. It's just their personal preference. After all such the "straight/gay" thing does reflect a person's outlook on life and people and such qualities make up a central part of a person. So someone could be attracted to the qualities that a typical "straight" guy would have. Says nothing on them.

Secondly, I've yet to meet someone whose obsessed with not coming off camp. There are some folks who are genuinely not camp after all - they're not trying at all. Your tone suggests there's something vaguely whiffy, something to be scorned at, for those gay men who come across as "straight acting". Do you think your sexuality should always determine your mannerisms and tastes?

moridin

Of course there are people like that, some of whom are my friends. I think you're misreading me, or being deliberatly antagonistic in order to keep me in work when I should be heading home now.

Example:
Person A meets Person B online. They get on really well, have a lot of the same interests and tastes in things. They swap pictures and eventually meet up. Person A likes Person B, but decides that he's too camp to date.

This pisses me off. And no, before you ask, that's not happened to me

My tone should be suggesting that at the end of the day you can't get much gayer than sleeping with or dating another guy or girl, all mannerisms aside. You're gay if you do this, or at least have gay tendancies, and those people who make such an issue of how "straight acting" someone is tend not to be people who I want to know.

tendofan

I agree with Swiss in that there are people who are greatly concerned with not appearing in any way gay, but I also think that there are those who go out of their way to be like a speed-addled Graham Norton.

In so far as both approaches are consciously chosen, they're probably rooted in internalised homophobia, the former taking on the "anti" position to avoid association, the other the "pro" position to shield themselves from accusations of homophobia.

I think eventually people stop giving a crap and do what suits them.

For my own part, and this is speaking in the full knowledge that I've my share of flouncy moments, I find
relentlessly wittering camp guys tiresome, and determinedly grim-faced "straight acting" guys just as bad.

I think there's a middle-ground.

Tendofan
- Why are Mondays so friggin' awful...

yellum

Originally posted by swiss
I don't mean to speak for yellum

Pretty much the same thoughts as me though. Well said Swiss.

Originally posted by Exit
So then, is it a selfconscious decision to do that

Its a conscious and sometimes subconscious decision , but I think it sways from one extreme to another. From Graham Norton camp to almost Butch Lesbian masculinity.

There are people as Camp as Graham and as butch/masculine as a big tattooed football hooligan or whatever but most people probably fit in between these but decide to behave in a manner which is unnatural for them and is not the true person.

Its a mask that people use for security. Masks can be good at times but hiding behind one constantly is going to mentally wear you out and someday you might wake up and not remember what you were like before the mask.

When someone describes themselves as "straight acting" to me its like they are saying being gay is shameful. It can even been seen as saying "I don't want to associate with you lot " Its gay people discriminating against gay people, Christ on a bike, we can't afford to be lobbing stones from our rose tinted glass house.