Why Do People Hate America

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by Vader
"must choose the means that you can best justify. "

Close but it does depends on the situation and timescale - Vimes is a good example
"a good compromise leaves both sides equally disappointed"
There is too much quoting of Machelivi (SP) out of context, the US administration could read the bits about getting and holding territories , (new princes, old princes etc.) He goes into detail about reprecussions of harsh treatment.

My point is the justifications have to cover the whole situation not just a tactical one. eg: complaining about governments giving in to terrorists and then the whole contra-iran thing esp. rubbing Carter's face in it. (one of the few american presidents to have my respect for work done after leaving office). Yes they got the hostages home, but at what cost ?

IMO Machevelli seemed to be in favor of nipping things in the bud - even if harshly done - than putting it off till more widespread measures are necessary.

eg: Since so many illegal immegrants already drown crossing the med. in unsuitable boats esp. when dumped by trafficers, one solution is for national navies to sink such vessels once identified without warning.. Less people would die overall and the demand for people smuggling would go down sharply.

sovtek

Originally posted by Vader
see this is what I mean about you moderating my attacks on america:p

Yeah yeah yeah

sovtek

Originally posted by lili
i have to add that they are very rude. i don't even know why i waste my time there.

Yes lili I've given up trying to debate on American boards. Most can't debate without name calling and other childish BS, especially if you criticise the US somehow.
In the end even if they believe you they won't admit it. It's like your insulting their mother or something.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by sovtek
Yes lili I've given up trying to debate on American boards. Most can't debate without name calling and other childish BS, especially if you criticise the US somehow.
In the end even if they believe you they won't admit it. It's like your insulting their mother or something.

In fairness, I’d be pretty insulted too if I was American, if you consider some of the things that are sometimes intimated - most notably the implication that your average American is a slack jawed yokel who believes that it’s his constitutional right to carry mutated anthrax (for duck hunting). They’re not, and they’ve been under a sizable amount of criticism, in particular in the last year, with much of it little more than name-calling and so I can’t blame the reaction that many of them will have at this stage.

Of course, that’s not to say that there aren’t a far share of those aforementioned slack jawed yokels on-line, but then again I’ve seen more than one European in the past, who sported a mullet without the slightest hint of irony.

After all, the Internet is not really the place to resolve these issues, only to blow off some steam and perhaps learn something new - but mainly to blow off some steam. You’re not going to have a reasoned debate between disparate groups of university graduates, brainwashed political activists, housewives and fourteen year olds taking a break from playing Counter-strike - it’s just not going to happen.

Not that it really would make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things even if you did.

Why Do People Hate America

Just to make a point on this. I don't hate America. I distrust the country of America. The nation thats continuing to loose all the freedoms that were so preached about to everyone. The last refuge for "freedom in the west".

Do i hate americans? No. I might find them somewhat ignorant, and often a bit slow on the uptake, but no i don't hate them.

Not those working in US companies in Ireland

I think you'll find they appreciate the company not the States. When i wored for an US firm over here, i appreciated having a job. I didn't thank the US government or the country that is the US. I thanked the company who came over here for fantastic tax breaks.

Irish people love US TV, films, music, clothes, culture, etc.

And they love Italien food, Spanish women, Spanish holidays, German chocolates.

You’re not going to have a reasoned debate between disparate groups of university graduates, brainwashed political activists, housewives and fourteen year olds taking a break from playing Counter-strike - it’s just not going to happen.

hell, Yes.

Vader

could somebody please provide a link to one of these american boards

bus77

Originally posted by Vader
could somebody please provide a link to one of these american boards

YEAH!!! Lets rush em:ninja:

egan007

I have been to Americaa few times and love it - it's truly a great country. what i HATE is BUSH he is wrecking everything good about America.

Don't confuse hating AMERICA hating BUSH
he is a di**head and needs to be REMOVED.

most americans with a brain and that don't think that Fox news is the bible feel the same about this dictator.

bonkey

Originally posted by egan007
Don't confuse hating AMERICA hating BUSH

Funnily enough, its mostly US supporters who seem incapable of distinguishing between those who hate/dislike/oppose the President/Administration/Foreign Policy of the United States with those who hate America.

Most of the critics know exactly what it is they hate/dislike/oppose.

jc

egan007

i disagree as i fall into this category
I have very clear ideas on what i Like/Hate

Egan, do you fall into the category that everyone that dislikes the Bush admin, hates America?

egan007

definately not - i like america hate bush admin

grand. I'm happy that we can agree.

Piliger

Lets face it almost everyone who hates america is basically jealous of their power or lacks any real education about both america and history. They usually hold america to a standard they themselves can't match and develop a hatred of america because they can't do anything about them.

Hobbes

Originally posted by Piliger
Lets face it almost everyone who hates america is basically jealous of their power or lacks any real education about both america and history. They usually hold america to a standard they themselves can't match and develop a hatred of america because they can't do anything about them.

I would of thought that America has such high ideals and then totally ignores them but claims that they follow them.

Read the American constitution lately?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Piliger
Lets face it almost everyone who hates america is basically jealous of their power or lacks any real education about both america and history. They usually hold america to a standard they themselves can't match and develop a hatred of america because they can't do anything about them.

To a degree education of America and her history is fairly immaterial - knowing what Pickett’s charge was matters for little if you’re being carpet-bombed. As for the standards you speak of, these are (as was pointed out) the standards that America herself claims to uphold and follow, so you can’t blame the critics for this.

Of Jealousy and powerlessness, you may have a point. Certainly Europeans, who not too long ago effectively ruled the World, do view US power with a certain degree of envy, all right. However, to state this as a principle or even major reason for attitudes towards America would be an unfair exaggeration.

Nonetheless, such powerlessness in the face of a dominant foreign power and culture to dominate us is a legitimate reason to fear America. Unfortunately, fear will all too often spill out into hatred.

bonkey

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Certainly Europeans, who not too long ago effectively ruled the World, do view US power with a certain degree of envy, all right.

But even this is misleading, as the group which effectively ruled the world, whom you refer to as Europeans, consisted of some European nations.

Not every European country looks at the power of the US and thinks "that used to be us, and it should be again". Ireland springs to mind as a prime example, especially because of where this current discussion is taking place.

I would also suggest that while the ruling powers of these various country's may wish to see a return to glory and power of their nation, the common man on the street generally couldn't care less. You average German or French does not - in my experience - mourn the loss of the era when their nation controlled empires that stretched half-way around the globe. We weren't born then, and to be honest....for the common man on the street, his or her lot has gotten better since the passing of those days, so it would be a bit foolish to want them back.

Indeed, the only European "commoners" I've ever heard express any regrets at the passing of their Empire was our dear neighbours to the East - the English.

Nonetheless, such powerlessness in the face of a dominant foreign power and culture to dominate us is a legitimate reason to fear America. Unfortunately, fear will all too often spill out into hatred.

Indeed it does...especially when the fear is only stoked by expecting the object of your fear to live up to its own standards.

jc

sovtek

Originally posted by Vader
could somebody please provide a link to one of these american boards

www.wfaa.com following the link to the message boards
www.daily-web.info

Sorry you have to sign up for both. The second one is full of ex-jarheads or so they say. The first has some of the same jarheads on there.

Lets face it almost everyone who hates america is basically jealous of their power or lacks any real education about both america and history. They usually hold america to a standard they themselves can't match and develop a hatred of america because they can't do anything about them.

Are you serious about this? I mean you really believe this?

I daresay Europeans know are fair bit abt US history, considering its told on all the education channels i.e. discovery, history channel etc. I learnt abt major US events in school, and have read abt the Wars its been involved in as part of personal interest. So, in my case its not a lack of knowledge abt US history. I doubt history of a nation is a factor, since many Irish people are a bit slow on the uptake abt Irish history, and yet we don't hate Ireland (except for price of living etc).

Lack of knowledge abt america? Somewhat yes. I've never been there. I'm not really interested in going. In fact the way security is going, i'd place it with a trip to N.Korea or China. As for culture, theres so many, that i'd have to live there to get a full grasp of them. Besides, most people who have taken a dislike to America, tend to dislike Bush and/or his admin, not the American culture.

As for not matching the US? I'm irish. Ireland can't match most nations in Europe, nevermind the US. Do i hate/dislike France, Germany, or Switzerland? nope. Do i fear them? nope. But then they haven't shown how aggressive they are lately. Until they do, i won't distrust them more so than any foreign power.

Certainly Europeans, who not too long ago effectively ruled the World, do view US power with a certain degree of envy, all right.

I'm not sure abt this one. Ireland has never been a world power so i'm kinda lacking this perception. However, i'd guess that it doesn't matter. The average joe-soap doesn't really care abt history or if their nation ruled half the world at one stage. They care abt what affects them. And lets be fair, the US's actions tend to affect us all.

TomF

"Not every European country looks at the power of the US and thinks 'that used to be us, and it should be again'. Ireland springs to mind as a prime example, especially because of where this current discussion is taking place."

To be honest, it has to admited by everyone that most of Ireland's anti-American intellectual types take their cues from British anti-American intellectual types, and that extends even to the point of proxy (maybe poxy, too) thinking "that used to be us, and it should be again."

bonkey

Originally posted by TomF
it has to admit by everyone that most of Ireland's anti-American intellectual types take their cues from British anti-American intellectual types,

And why, praytell, TomF does this have to be admitted? And remember you started that sentence by saying "To be honest".....

Is there a shred of evidence to indicate that its true, or is it just a convenient way of being able to deal with the fact that the "you're just jealous we took your top slot" argument holds so little water against Irish people that its laughable?

And remember....you're being honest......so you must have some basis for your "fact".

jc

TomF

It has to be admitted in the same way that it now has to be admitted that west Cork and the wilds of Dunmanway are now actually part of Britain, as are Counties Leitrim and Roscommon. Surely these are all facts that anyone can verify by observation.

Vader

Originally posted by TomF

To be honest, it has to admited by everyone that most of Ireland's anti-American intellectual types take their cues from British anti-American intellectual types, and that extends even to the point of proxy (maybe poxy, too) thinking "that used to be us, and it should be again."

Eh no. I'm an intellectual and "anti-american" is a name (among others) Ive been branded. Anybody who isnt afraid to open their eyes can see what america is. I dont take any cues and Im nobodys puppet.

monument

Originally posted by Cork
Not those working in US companies in Ireland.

Irish people love US TV, films, music, clothes, culture, etc.

:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:


As with Ireland, and the UK, I have a love hate relationship with the United States*.

(You can also call it United States of America, or for short the US or the USA, it’s not America, and it’s not North America. Why do people have to call it America? – sorry for the rant, I’m having a bad day!)

The reason I dislike the three states is basically for the same reasons, although the US - in most of my hates – are far ahead.

Examples of my hates are - undemocratic influences, poverty and homelessness, illegally attacking other nations or illegally supporting such, been *obsessed* with religion and not allowing any one to question such, been obsessed with image, been obsessed with making money with out regard to whom it hurts, been obsessed with blaming people groups for problems with out looking at where they came from… I could go on.

Piliger

Originally posted by The Corinthian
To a degree education of America and her history is fairly immaterial - knowing what Pickett’s charge was matters for little if you’re being carpet-bombed.

I wasn't referring to American history - but to world history.

As for the standards you speak of, these are (as was pointed out) the standards that America herself claims to uphold and follow, so you can’t blame the critics for this.

I think we can. It's not for others to slate the US for it's interpretation of it's constitution. People should look more to their own and themselves first and foremost.

monument

Originally posted by Cork
quote:

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Why Do People Hate America

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Not those working in US companies in Ireland.

Irish people love US TV, films, music, clothes, culture, etc.

Why does someone’s hate for a country have to mean they can’t work in a company registered it that country, which may or may not be wholly owned by people from that country?

I love and hate parts of “TV, films, music, clothes, culture, etc” from many countries -including the US – this does not normaly change my views on the countries in general or their political policies.

Piliger

Originally posted by bonkey
Not every European country looks at the power of the US and thinks "that used to be us, and it should be again". Ireland springs to mind as a prime example, especially because of where this current discussion is taking place.

I would suggest that most of those people, including the Irish indeed do wish their own country could have more influence on the world. This frustration leads to the kind of hypocritical anti americanism that we see so much of nowadays.

Indeed it does...especially when the fear is only stoked by expecting the object of your fear to live up to its own standards.

Which is of course at it's core a deeply hypocritical position. Knocking america for some flimsily concocted conflict with it's constitution, while their own personal and country's behave in as selfish and self interested way as america and any other country.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Piliger
I wasn't referring to American history - but to world history.

With respects, the same accusation could be equally made of many Americans.

I think we can. It's not for others to slate the US for it's interpretation of it's constitution. People should look more to their own and themselves first and foremost.

This is an almost surreal assertion. Should we not judge the values of the very power that that chosen to judge us? Essentially, America lost the moral right to tell others to mind their own affairs when she began to impose her interpretation of social justice on them. In short, if America stops interpreting how the rest of the World should act, perhaps the rest of the World will stop interpreting how America should act.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by TomF
It has to be admitted in the same way that it now has to be admitted that west Cork and the wilds of Dunmanway are now actually part of Britain, as are Counties Leitrim and Roscommon. Surely these are all facts that anyone can verify by observation.

And the same way it has to be admitted that the World is in reality ruled by a race of two-meter high reptiles? :rolleyes:

(You can also call it United States of America, or for short the US or the USA, it’s not America, and it’s not North America. Why do people have to call it America? – sorry for the rant, I’m having a bad day!)

Its the same way as most people call Great Britain or the British Isles, England. I use both. As for the States, i'll use anything at all, whether the US, America, or the United States. America is just the best known area.

And the same way it has to be admitted that the World is in reality ruled by a race of two-meter high reptiles?

Now you know the Truth!! They will come for you now!

Essentially, America lost the moral right to tell others to mind their own affairs when she began to impose her interpretation of social justice on them.

Perfect point.

To be honest, it has to admited by everyone that most of Ireland's anti-American intellectual types take their cues from British anti-American intellectual types, and that extends even to the point of proxy (maybe poxy, too) thinking "that used to be us, and it should be again."

Where is this belief that irish people still take their cues from Britain? I mean 30 years ago fashions tended to follow Britain, but its not the case anymore. We are individual and as such can think for ourselves. Stop relying on other people to think for you, and you might start seeing whats going on in front of your eyes.