Why Do People Hate America

TomF

Actually, an hypothesis of two-meter high venom-spitting reptiles ruling the roost might go a long way to understanding some of the more extreme "I hate America" posts on this board.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by TomF
Actually, an hypothesis of two-meter high venom-spitting reptiles ruling the roost might go a long way to understanding some of the more extreme "I hate America" posts on this board.

Well, shall we recap on what you’ve been spouting recently then?

First you say:

To be honest, it has to admited by everyone that most of Ireland's anti-American intellectual types take their cues from British anti-American intellectual types, and that extends even to the point of proxy (maybe poxy, too) thinking "that used to be us, and it should be again."

Which bizarrely seems to place the responsibility of anti-Americanism on Britain - an assertion which is challenged by bonkey due to your lack of any evidence to back it up whatsoever. Cryptically your response is:

It has to be admitted in the same way that it now has to be admitted that west Cork and the wilds of Dunmanway are now actually part of Britain, as are Counties Leitrim and Roscommon. Surely these are all facts that anyone can verify by observation.

Which is your way of proving one assertion with another assertion (also without any evidence to back it up whatsoever).

And now you get indignant because someone might have poked fun at that imaginative colander you call an argument? :rolleyes:

claidheamh

Hello,

Sorry to barge-in. I am an American with many International friends, and we have discussed this topic from time-to-time.

I am also from Texas (cough), so hopefully I can give you some first-hand information.

Regretfully, many here are ignorant. People eat spoon-fed news, with pre-formed opinions. It is easier this way, as there is no thinking involved. Free thought and expression of opinion are only tolerated if, it is of the mainstream. Mainstream is typically slightly religiously-right wing. Why? The same reason people eat spoon-fed news.

Also, there is a propensity for hate. Fear, through ignorance, breeds this mentality. We bombed a country because, and I quote GWB, "He (Hussein) was a dangerous man, in a dangerous part of the world." If that is all the true justification we need to spread genocide, the world should be duly warned.

I think the rampant ignorance stems from commercialism, our deplorable school system, and lack of decent parenting skills. Ignorant folks are easier to control.

We promulgate this image with everything from our national leader(sigh), our cavalier attitude (here and abroad), the television programs we provide... Many wonder how a group, so poorly educated, can have the audacity to globally flaunt their ignorance without regard...like say, a dervish.

The beaten-down, run-over dead horse statement, "No one likes us because they're jealous," is a knee-jerk statement, without basis; Whereas, other countries dislike of us stems from our own disturbed and utterly polluted value system, is more likely the cause.

And before anyone suggests I get the hell out, since I have such low national pride...let's just say I'm working on it...
...and if anyone suggests I live in a non US 3rd world country for a while... I have, and think everyone should.

sovtek

Originally posted by claidheamh
I think the rampant ignorance stems from commercialism, our deplorable school system, and lack of decent parenting skills. Ignorant folks are easier to control.

Hola mi tejano prójimo!
Might the lack of parenting skills be a direct result of the first two in the list?
Just a thought...carry on.

claidheamh

Is poor parenting the culprit for our current educational nightmare, as well as the basis for our commercial-product addicted society? After thinking about your response, I would have to concur. I would also add, "lack of" parents' input, as well.

Our society is pretty infected. Unfortunately, I think it will take extreme effort on the part of parents, children, schools, and government to remedy this malaise. Does anyone see 'all' of those four parties putting-in extreme effort to:

*admit we have a problem?
*create a plan to solve the problem?
*stay out of others problems until our house is in order?

I don't. We'll have to hit rock-bottom first. IMO our day of reckoning is coming...(mental image is the final scene of High Brazil, from Eric the Viking )

Sooner or later, what is our country going to provide others on a global level? Tobacco? We're like the 250kg man going to the Chinese buffet. We'll only be served until the money is gone. We'll only have money as long as we are allowed carte blanche to others resources.

These are some of the things I believe irritate other nationals about general US citizens' mentality, and our government.

I would like to be optimistic, alas practical thought will not allow it.

Geromino

Originally posted by claidheamh
Regretfully, many here are ignorant. People eat spoon-fed news, with pre-formed opinions. It is easier this way, as there is no thinking involved. Free thought and expression of opinion are only tolerated if, it is of the mainstream. Mainstream is typically slightly religiously-right wing. Why? The same reason people eat spoon-fed news.

I am curious on how you define ignorance on the issues? Is it ignorance based on political idealogy or the lack of research and reasoning?

Also, there is a propensity for hate. Fear, through ignorance, breeds this mentality. We bombed a country because, and I quote GWB, "He (Hussein) was a dangerous man, in a dangerous part of the world." If that is all the true justification we need to spread genocide, the world should be duly warned.

You seem to have ignored the weapons insprections from 1991-1998, the disparage of the UN security council since 1995, and finally the quotations from former President Clinton who said "Iraq is still possessiong and is continuing to possess Weapons of Mass Destruction."

I think the rampant ignorance stems from commercialism, our deplorable school system, and lack of decent parenting skills. Ignorant folks are easier to control.

I would blame the 60's revolution, the TEA for the educational system, and the parents political philoshophy believing that schools should become a second pareent to their childrne. Also, if you give a group money and it is unlimited, then it is easier to control a group and put blame on the other. Class warfare has never worked and it is the ignorant mentality of those who believe in such redicule of hatred.

The beaten-down, run-over dead horse statement, "No one likes us because they're jealous," is a knee-jerk statement, without basis; Whereas, other countries dislike of us stems from our own disturbed and utterly polluted value system, is more likely the cause.

There is some truth in the jealousy and envy argument and not as a knee-jerked reaction. "As the world's richest nation, jealousy does give rise to hatred. Many level headed people will subconsciously feel it's effects, even though they may recognize it as what it is, many won't." (this comes from the web site that I mentioned a later) Hell, I am envious of the asian culture in terms of family values and their respect for parents. It is so convenient to put your parents in a nursing home or assisted living center and not in your own home because it makes your life so inconvenient. Or, one is considered a failure if they are still living with their parents past the age of 21 and "not on their own." In Asian society, that is considered disrepectful to your parents and to yourself. It is the job of the child to go to school and learn, not play video games and go on dates (generally speaking of course). Japan has the best secondary educational system in the world, IMHO,(South Korea and Taiwan as well) while the US has the best collegiate system in the world. So, what does this have to do with "hating America?" I would have to say that most are distrustful of what America does in foreign policy and hold America up to one standard while they hold their own government to a different standard. America has now become the Jews of the world. When in doubt, blame it on America. They are the big boys and it must be them type of mentality. This is the victimization complex. I do not know if this web site has been given, but I have come to agree with most of what he says:http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.html

Finally, I can understand the criticism of our foreign policy. What I cannot understand is the criticism of the culture and society as a whole. This is what I find immature and racist in nature.

Akrasia

There is no such thing as "american culture" The USA is such a huge and diverse country that it is impossible to pinpoint any aspects of society that are held in common everywhere in the 50 states.

Anti-Americanism is not an attack on the people of america who can at times be very insular and so detached that they do not even consider the outside world. (much like a large proportion of Irish people I might add) Political activists and commentators who spend a lot of energy attacking America are aiming their vitriol at your countries most damaging exports,Empire War and Corporate Domination.

America has 702 foreign military bases in 130 different countries (these are only official numbers, there are probably closer to 1000 foreign bases)
America also has a number of official territories outside of the USA
(American Samoa, Navassa Island, Baker Island, Northern Mariana Islands
Guam, Palmyra Atoll, Howland Island, Puerto Rico, Jarvis Island, Virgin Islands
Kingman Reef Wake Island, Midway Island )

War
A list of direct American military intervention on other nations' soil from World War II to the present day. Do not include: indirect military involvement such as arms sales, however significant (e.g. Israel); nuclear threats or nuclear testing (e.g. Marshall Islands); establishment of controversial bases or defense systems (e.g. Western Europe, Saudi Arabia); humanitarian missions that did not involve combat; or the geopolitical impacts of military treaty developmentlWORLD WAR II 1941-45
Fought Axis forces for three years; first nuclear war, against Japan.

GREECE 1947-49
Supports and directs extreme right in civil war.

PHILIPPINES 1948-54
CIA directs war against leftist Huk Rebellion.

PUERTO RICO 1950
Nationalist insurrection challenges American occupation; US command operation puts down rebellion.

KOREAN WAR 1950-53
Joins South Korea and other allies to fight China and North Korea.

IRAN 1953
CIA directs overthrow of elected left-leaning government, installs Shah.

GUATEMALA 1954
CIA directs exile invasion and overthrow of leftist government; military junta installed.

LEBANON 1958
US occupation ends under UN Observer Group.

VIETNAM WAR 1960-75
Fought South Vietnam rebels and North Vietnam forces; 1-2 million killed.

CUBA 1961
CIA-directed "Bay of Pigs" invasion.

LAOS 1962
Green Berets active in training, military buildup, support of rightist forces during guerrilla war.

PANAMA 1964
Control of Panama Canal Zone challenged; rioting against US forces.

INDONESIA 1965
Army coup assisted to an unknown degree by CIA; left-leaning elected government toppled; between 250,000 to 1,000,000 lives lost.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC 1965-66
Troops invade during election as pre-emptive action against leftist rebellion or communist government.

GUATEMALA 1966-67
Command operation; Green Berets aid in combat against leftist rebels.

CAMBODIA 1969-75
War against leftist forces; intense bombing; up to 2 million killed.

OMAN 1970
US directs Iranian invasion in support of Omani government against Marxist "Dhufar rebellion."

LAOS 1971-73
US directs South Vietnamese invasion.

CHILE 1973
CIA-backed coup ousts elected leftist president; rightist dictator installed.

ANGOLA 1976-92
CIA assists South African-backed rebels.

EL SALVADOR 1981-92
Advisors aid government forces against leftist rebels.

NICARAGUA 1981-90
US directs guerrilla exile invasion ("Contra war") against revolutionary government; US forces plant mines.

LEBANON 1982-84
Marines help police negotiated evacuation of Palestine Liberation Organization; US forces combat Muslim and Syrian fighters in support of Christian government.

HONDURAS 1983-89
Military bases established for US-backed "Contra war" with Nicaragua.

GRENADA 1983-84
US troops topple pro-Cuban government.

LIBYA 1986
Air strikes against nationalist government with terrorist links.

BOLIVIA 1986
Operation Blast Furnace; US troops and Bolivian police face peasant resistance in cocaine-producing regions.

IRAN 1987-88
Intervention on side of Iraq in war against Iran.

U.S. VIRGIN ISLANDS 1989
Troops restore order after civil unrest spurred by Hurricane Hugo.

PHILIPPINES 1989
Armed US aircraft support constitutional government against failed coup.

PANAMA 1989-90
Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 US soldiers; more than 2,000 people killed.

GULF WAR 1990-
Operation Desert Storm drives Iraq out of Kuwait; 200,000+ killed. No-fly zone ongoing; periodic bombing.

SOMALIA 1992-94
US-led United Nations occupation during civil war.

YUGOSLAVIA 1992-94
US troops in NATO operation to enforce sanctions against Serbia and Montenegro.

BOSNIA 1993-95
Operation Deny Flight patrols civil war no-fly zone; air combat, Serbs bombed.

HAITI 1994-96
Troops restore elected leftist president to office three years after coup.

CROATIA 1995
American and NATO forces attack Bosnian Serb airfields prior to Croatian offensive.

SUDAN 1998
Pharmaceutical factory with terrorist links bombed; retaliation for terrorist attacks on US embassies in Africa.

AFGHANISTAN 1998
Bombing of Islamic fundamentalist military camps; retaliation for terrorist attacks on US embassies in Africa.

YUGOSLAVIA 1999
US aircraft play the key role in heavy NATO air strikes against Serbian forces in Kosovo.

COLOMBIA 2000
Special Forces train anti-narcotics and anti-rebel battalions, supply combat aircraft.

MACEDONIA 2001
US forces in NATO's Operation Essential Harvest partially disarm Albanian rebels.

AFGHANISTAN 2001
In retaliation for terrorist attacks in US, forces attempt ouster of Afghanistan's Taliban government, attack bases linked to Islamic militant Osama bin Laden.

Iraq 2003
Invasion to oust Saddam Hussein and terminate suspected Weapons programmes. Military occupation continues


I think the Corporate impact is obvious, but apart from the obvious corporations, Disney, Mcdonalds, Coca-Cola, there are many American firms using WTO and IMF influence to force governents to sell public assets at cheap prices to these corporate interests resulting in widespread profiteering and poverty for the local populations

Akrasia

there is also the fact that america trains many of the potential genocidal dictators in its own CIA assasin school. they are ensuring that there will be a plentiful suply of war and suffering long into the future in order to keep the economy going

http://www.soaw.org/

americanCat

wow..you guys definately know what you're talking about..but may i point out that you don't exactly know what it's like to be these people who happen to work for the government or CIA..i mean..they're making decisions that they feel are right..you have to take a different point of view on things..what I personaly don't like is that when i travel overseas people label me a "stupid american" because of the decisions of the president of my country..i don't think that it's right to stereotype people like that. Also, i was and never will be for the "war on terrorism" in my opinion war should happen only if there are *no* other choices available..but what's done is done and now i feel we must try to do everything in our power to keep things from getting worse..anyways, since we're on the subject..what are your opinions on the upcoming 2004 election in the US?

Akrasia

I have no doubt that these people make decisions based on what is "right" but it is only right for their paymasters and their own careers.

The American Neo Conservative establishment have a non profit organisation (haha) designed to promote "A Project for a New American Century"
Their website is here http://newamericancentury.org/
The people who run American foreign policy are directly involved in supporting this organisation. Initially it was a secretive organisation but recently they have realised that the American media are not going to attack them or their policies so they have stepped much more into the public light

If you're going to look at their site you should also look at some of the websites set up to "interpret" their statement s based on what their consequences will be
An example of such a site is here http://www.pnac.info/

Akrasia

Hi American cat, I was just wondering if you have any opinions on the Local elections that will be happening in Ireland this summer? how about our presidential election?

No of course you dont, you dont care and i dont blame you. but i would like to make a point that the American people dont like people criticising your country but you also expect us all to be well informed of your political and social climate while most americans pronably couldnt name the Prime ministers/presidents of 10 countries outside of North America.
The fact is that we do know quite a lot about what goes on In america and many of us really dont like it, which is why we spend a lot of time and energy argueing about it. It has some kind of Soap opera effect except the issues are really important

americanCat

akrasia, i agree that a lot of americans expect other countries to know all the politics that go on in our country..i actually posted that question for anyone who just wanted to share their views..what i hate most about the US is that with all the channels we get, there are almost no international news channels..actually there is only one..and tho i didn't know that Ireland is having elections, i do know that your current president is female (which i admire) and i do make a point of trying to know most of the stuff that is going on in the world outside of the US. I am offended that you imply that i don't care about the world outside of the US but i understand where you're coming from. The truth is that some americans don't care about the outside world..but then again, i would like it if you wouldn't stereotype us by implying that *no* americans care. I am interested in your views and if you still disagree with me please PM me and i'll be glad to discuss it with you.
~cat~

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Geromino
the US has the best collegiate system in the world.

Not at a diploma or baccalaureate level. While I would tend to agree that at a masters or doctorate level the US educational system is excellent, many primary degrees are comparable to UK A Level or Irish Honours Leaving Certificate standard, IMHO.

So, what does this have to do with "hating America?" I would have to say that most are distrustful of what America does in foreign policy and hold America up to one standard while they hold their own government to a different standard. America has now become the Jews of the world. When in doubt, blame it on America. They are the big boys and it must be them type of mentality. This is the victimization complex. I do not know if this web site has been given, but I have come to agree with most of what he says:http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.html

Finally, I can understand the criticism of our foreign policy. What I cannot understand is the criticism of the culture and society as a whole. This is what I find immature and racist in nature.

Consider yourself non-American for a moment Geromino. Perhaps consider yourself Pakistani, Brazilian, French or Thai. American values and culture are not your values and culture - you do not worship the same God or gods, speak the same language, eat the same foods or view politics in the same way. So Asians will tend to view the consumer driven individualism of American culture distasteful, while Europeans tend to see the almost Darwinian nature of American capitalism, devoid of the social safety nets that are present in Europe, to be undesirable. Of course, it’s not all distasteful or undesirable. We also like a lot about each other’s cultures, which is why we trade.

Of course, this is all well and good - different strokes for different folks, after all. We have our way of doing things and you have yours.

Unfortunately, however the problem arises when we no longer have the right to determine our way of doing things -when we are told that we should reform our economies and remove our social security nets, or that we should not possess military satellites or weapons of a certain nature, or that our interpretation of democracy or our form of government is unacceptable. And when this is imposed by us by a foreign power, then comes not envy, but fear - and regrettably it is fear that will breed hatred more readily. Perceived hypocrisy and double standards only aggravates this further.

Remember that the recent explosion of anti-Americanism we have seen has come about in only the last year or so. To argue that this was as a result of envy would be completely ignoring the introduction of a policy of unilateralism and regime change. That one country can impose it’s will on the World, regardless of whether the World wants this or not.

So while envy certainly might account for some anti-Americanism, but to argue that this is its fundamental root cause would be rather glib or disingenuous. Still, more reasonable than your Duty! Honor! Country! defence...

chill

Originally posted by americanCat
wow..you guys definately know what you're talking about..but may i point out that you don't exactly know what it's like to be these people who happen to work for the government

I sympathise. You have to remember that there are just as many ignorant people in this and other countries. There are also a lot of sad people who spend their time knocking other countries instead of their own and do nothing about either.
As to why America is 'hated' I suggest that there is the hatred coming from the Muslim world which is simple ignorance and bigotry - and then there's the antipathy in other 'western' societies.
Being the biggest and strongest will always attract irrational attacks from certain kinds of people, and that explains a great deal of it.
The jealousy thing is very real among under achievers and rsentment that America has become so successful and is the country that keeps us all so safe is another.
While saying all that there is no doubt that the Bush baby has contributed to the antipathy enormously and it's going to take a good few years of a sane, educated and wordly President to repairs things back to a reasonable level.

Akrasia

Personally i would like to say that while i am critical of many aspects of American policy both abroad and In america, I am also highly critical of The Irish Government and the EU. I have been actively involved in attempting to call the government to account.
Discussing things is important gathering and spreading information is important but it is only half the job.

BattleBoar

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Not at a diploma or baccalaureate level. While I would tend to agree that at a masters or doctorate level the US educational system is excellent, many primary degrees are comparable to UK A Level or Irish Honours Leaving Certificate standard, IMHO.

What primary degrees would you say are comparable to an Irish honous leaving cert standard?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by BattleBoar
What primary degrees would you say are comparable to an Irish honous leaving cert standard?

Physics for one, I've been told.

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Not at a diploma or baccalaureate level. While I would tend to agree that at a masters or doctorate level the US educational system is excellent, many primary degrees are comparable to UK A Level or Irish Honours Leaving Certificate standard, IMHO.

Sorry ****, not true in my experience.

We have many US primary degree holders researching postgraduate qualifications in our institute and they tend to be as good, if not at least more focused and ambitious than Irish primary degree holders.

I'd say the sciences tend to be on a par if not better seeing as they often tend to put more emphesis on practical work.

BattleBoar

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Physics for one, I've been told.

Well, I looked at a comparison between the US AP Physics exam, which would be similar to the Honours Irish Leaving Cert, and I can't really say I see much difference between the two in level of complexity or material, with the possible exception of the paper at the end of the Irish Leaving Cert. Here's the link, by the way, if you're interested: http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/ap/students/physics/ap_cd_physics.pdf

I looked at the Irish Higher Physics Leaving Cert infomation from skool.ie.

In addition, speaking as someone who actually did Physics in the US and is now in a MS degree program, I'd say both of these exams are nowhere near what you get in a physics undergraduate program. They don't require you to derive anything so far as I can tell. Any physics undergrad program I know of would have students deriving all these relations from basic laws through calculus beyond the second year. Both of these high school programs are good beginners to physics, and cover what most non-majors would learn in a normal 2 semester physics course, but neither use the math required for a full undergraduate program in physics (or any science or engineering other than biology for that matter). It definitely isn't what you'd find in a full BS degree program. At my university, if you are going to be a physics major, you are doing vector calculus, differential equations,and calculus of variations starting in your second year and using them to derive these relations. You aren't just learning off formulas like you would be for AP exam or honours leaving cert. Sure, that gives you a good base of understanding and introduction to the field, but it doesn't really allow you to understand what's going on.

I'm not arguing that the honours leaving cert doesn't provides an excellent secondary school education, it most definitely does. But to say it is comparable to a baccalaureate of science in the field is a little ridiculous. After all, you're talking about 4 extra years of education focusing primarily on that particular subject.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by syke
We have many US primary degree holders researching postgraduate qualifications in our institute and they tend to be as good, if not at least more focused and ambitious than Irish primary degree holders.

You really have to take the states as whole when making a comparison. The quality of education varies from college to college in the EU and undoubtedly this is the case the US also. Simply because those who were good enough to do masters degrees and were good enough to be offered courses or even scholarships abroad are on a par with European universities, can hardly be considered indicative.

I'd say the sciences tend to be on a par if not better seeing as they often tend to put more emphesis on practical work.

In the case of physics, I was simply recounting the opinion of one of the authors of the Irish Leaving Certificate curriculum for Physics.

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Corinthian
You really have to take the states as whole when making a comparison. The quality of education varies from college to college in the EU and undoubtedly this is the case the US also. Simply because those who were good enough to do masters degrees and were good enough to be offered courses or even scholarships abroad are on a par with European universities, can hardly be considered indicative.

I'll give you that, but I we have students from tech schools and obscure enough colleges and they seem grand.

I think in general its much of a muchness, but as an aside, up until recently, Irish primary degree holders had to sit extra exams to apply for medical lab and equiv positions as the degree over here weren't considered up to scratch.

BattleBoar

Originally posted by The Corinthian
In the case of physics, I was simply recounting the opinion of one of the authors of the Irish Leaving Certificate curriculum for Physics.

Just wondering because I don't know, but are the authors of the leaving cert PhDs in their field?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by BattleBoar
Just wondering because I don't know, but are the authors of the leaving cert PhDs in their field?

AFAIK, yes.

EDIT: In fairness, I probably should not have argued that the UK A Levels or Irish Leaving Cert were consistanly better. I was responding/debunking to the claim that "the US has the best collegiate system in the world". And it's all pretty off topic.

BattleBoar

Originally posted by The Corinthian
AFAIK, yes.

whacky. Well, as I said before, after looking at the material, it definitely wouldn't cover beyond the first year of a BS degree, and even then only for non-majors. Dunno what that guy was referring to. Could be he never dealt with anyone who majored in physics from the states, or he met a particularly thick one I suppose.

"And it's all pretty off topic."

EDIT: True. I digress.

Geromino

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Not at a diploma or baccalaureate level. While I would tend to agree that at a masters or doctorate level the US educational system is excellent, many primary degrees are comparable to UK A Level or Irish Honours Leaving Certificate standard, IMHO.

I was referring to the system as a whole. Granted you will have disparities from the different colleges across Europe, but for every one school you bring up as the best, there are five more waiting in the wings here in the states with equal creditals.

Consider yourself non-American for a moment Geromino. Perhaps consider yourself Pakistani, Brazilian, French or Thai. American values and culture are not your values and culture - you do not worship the same God or gods, speak the same language, eat the same foods or view politics in the same way. So Asians will tend to view the consumer driven individualism of American culture distasteful, while Europeans tend to see the almost Darwinian nature of American capitalism, devoid of the social safety nets that are present in Europe, to be undesirable. Of course, it’s not all distasteful or undesirable. We also like a lot about each other’s cultures, which is why we trade.

Of course, this is all well and good - different strokes for different folks, after all. We have our way of doing things and you have yours.

No, we trade because you have something I want and I have something you want. The differences in cultures only transcribe in how we make the business decisions.

Unfortunately, however the problem arises when we no longer have the right to determine our way of doing things -when we are told that we should reform our economies and remove our social security nets, or that we should not possess military satellites or weapons of a certain nature, or that our interpretation of democracy or our form of government is unacceptable. And when this is imposed by us by a foreign power, then comes not envy, but fear - and regrettably it is fear that will breed hatred more readily. Perceived hypocrisy and double standards only aggravates this further.

Yet, you had the same thing with Chirac in 2001 when he offered his now infamous "freedom of silence" stance with Eastern European nations as candidates for the EU. You also have a host of nations demanding if not strongly suggesting or else mentality the US to sign the Kyoto treaty (a very bad treaty), land mine treaty, World Court, and other analogous international treaties, trestises, and actions. Yet, in those discussions, it is often viewed as

Remember that the recent explosion of anti-Americanism we have seen has come about in only the last year or so. To argue that this was as a result of envy would be completely ignoring the introduction of a policy of unilateralism and regime change. That one country can impose it’s will on the World, regardless of whether the World wants this or not.

So while envy certainly might account for some anti-Americanism, but to argue that this is its fundamental root cause would be rather glib or disingenuous. Still, more reasonable than your Duty! Honor! Country! defence...

There has always been "anti-Americanism." Although it was not covered extensively by the media, historically most locals from various countries considered it radical and anarchist by the very definition before the fall. After the fall of the Soviet Union, "anti-Americanism" has been rising. It started from the anti-globalization establishment in 1995 and has now become part of the kosher, mainstream media by most nations. The Iraq was was simply the latest flashpoint of "anti-Americanism." I think you will find this interesting Corinthian. It pretty sums up most of my opinion on the subject. (Now back to the superbowl.)

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Geromino
No, we trade because you have something I want and I have something you want. The differences in cultures only transcribe in how we make the business decisions.

Not all wants are for raw materials - many goods and services, such as clothing, cuisine and entertainment are indicative of the culture exporting them.

Yet, you had the same thing with Chirac in 2001 when he offered his now infamous "freedom of silence" stance with Eastern European nations as candidates for the EU. You also have a host of nations demanding if not strongly suggesting or else mentality the US to sign the Kyoto treaty (a very bad treaty), land mine treaty, World Court, and other analogous international treaties, trestises, and actions. Yet, in those discussions, it is often viewed as

I wouldn’t condone what Chirac did with regard to the EU candidates, but that doesn’t excuse anyone else for playing the bullyboy either.

You also seemed not to have finished your argument.

There has always been "anti-Americanism." Although it was not covered extensively by the media, historically most locals from various countries considered it radical and anarchist by the very definition before the fall. After the fall of the Soviet Union, "anti-Americanism" has been rising. It started from the anti-globalization establishment in 1995 and has now become part of the kosher, mainstream media by most nations. The Iraq was was simply the latest flashpoint of "anti-Americanism."

That anti-Americanism existed but was largely a fringe interest until the end of the Cold War is not being debated. Neither is that it has been growing, and should present trends continue would grow even further. Or that it came to the fore with the diplomatic catastrophe that was the invasion or Iraq.

However, by the very article you have liked to the author claims that it “on the singular idea that something associated with the United States, something at the core of American life, is deeply wrong and threatening to the rest of the world”. It became threatening when the rest of the World was told that we had to accept it or become irrelevant. Or worse.

If a foreign power decides to tell you how the World and your own nation should be run, whether you like it or not, what do you expect?

Edit: Last line changed to make gramatical sense

bonkey

Originally posted by The Corinthian
If a foreign power decides to tell you how the World and your own nation should be run, whether we you it or not, what do you expect?

Well, look at how Geromino is reacting to seeing others proclaim how the US should be run, and you can get a good idea of what to excpect

You get a helping of "you don't understand us", a dollop of "you don't share our values and are therefore wrong to judge us by your values", and a smidgen of "what damned business of yours is it anyway".


jc

sovtek

Originally posted by Geromino Class warfare has never worked and it is the ignorant mentality of those who believe in such redicule of hatred.

And it's why our American system isn't sustainable.

Hell, I am envious of the asian culture in terms of family values and their respect for parents. It is so convenient to put your parents in a nursing home or assisted living center and not in your own home because it makes your life so inconvenient. Or, one is considered a failure if they are still living with their parents past the age of 21 and "not on their own." In Asian society, that is considered disrepectful to your parents and to yourself.

Sorry if I'm not remembering this correctly...I am getting older...but weren't you the one trumpeting how great America was because we have no "lord of the manor" or it doesn't "matter who your father is" as well as the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" or some such rhetoric?

sovtek

Originally posted by claidheamh
*admit we have a problem?
*create a plan to solve the problem?
*stay out of others problems until our house is in order?

Excellent idea and very concisely put.

I don't. We'll have to hit rock-bottom first. IMO our day of reckoning is coming...(mental image is the final scene of High Brazil, from Eric the Viking )

Unfortunetly I think you might be right that the certain types that go on business trips to China and India quite often (and lets face it...they are the ones who want it this way and are runnning things) aren't going to stop until that happens. Failing that I'm increasingly convinced it's going to take a boot to the neck and a Kalashnikov pointed at the head. Allah help us either way.

I would like to be optimistic, alas practical thought will not allow it.

Hence my fatalistic attitude articulated above.

claidheamh

Originally posted by Geromino
I am curious on how you define ignorance on the issues? Is it ignorance based on political idealogy or the lack of research and reasoning?

courtesy of Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: ig·no·rant
Pronunciation: 'ig-n(&-)r&nt
Function: adjective
1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>;

Originally posted by Geromino

You seem to have ignored the weapons insprections from 1991-1998, the disparage of the UN security council since 1995, and finally the quotations from former President Clinton who said "Iraq is still possessiong and is continuing to possess Weapons of Mass Destruction."

I wasn't ignoring inspections/statements of the past President. President Clinton's actions weren't correct, due to the same misinformation we see today; However, his actions were nowhere the same level that our current President deemed necessary. They were both wrong, which adds to the fodder for, "reasons to be unhappy with America."
I am unsure of your term, 'disparage of,' being that the word, 'disparage,' is a transitive verb.

Originally posted by Geromino
I would blame the 60's revolution, the TEA for the educational system, and the parents political philoshophy believing that schools should become a second pareent to their childrne. Also, if you give a group money and it is unlimited, then it is easier to control a group and put blame on the other. Class warfare has never worked and it is the ignorant mentality of those who believe in such redicule of hatred.

That is a common thought thought. Not mine, but common. I think the educational system was at a crossroads. Had the 60's revolution not occured, I think a whole lotta fundamentalistic (Christian) education would be occuring in our system...but this is not the place for that tangent.

Originally posted by Geromino
Finally, I can understand the criticism of our foreign policy. What I cannot understand is the criticism of the culture and society as a whole. This is what I find immature and racist in nature.

Our country, and it's flippant international attitude is a direct result of our foreign policy.
I think you would have a hard time proving racism.