The Dell-step Challenge

flogen

Ok, this is inspired by the post (http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=135373) about building your own PC. Ive been thinking about trying it when I had some spare time.... but I have a question first... nay... a challenge.

Obviously by building your own PC you know how it works and can put what you want into it... but does it cost you less and if so is it worth the time?

Here is a randomly selected Dell model PC from their site:
http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dimen_8300?c=ie&l=en&s=dhs

I give you this challenge. if you were to build this PC yourself with the same spec all in each part, how much would it cost (roughly) and how long would it take you?
Im sure there are budget price components, but your machine must be at least as reliable as the Dell PC (see the service and support tab). Ignore any software that would be included (except maybe windows)

Flogen

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by flogen
....Im sure there are budget price components, but your machine must be at least as reliable as the Dell PC (see the service and support tab). Ignore any software that would be included (except maybe windows)

Flogen

Well to start with whats will the PC be used for. The Dell model specified has budget graphics, sound, monitor and hard disk. Its hard to know who its pitched at.

flogen

The idea is to match the PCs specs, if they are low specs, then match them

what I meant by budget was cheap components that are the same specs as dearer ones, but more likely to be badly made. Just like you can get premium quality ham in tesco, and you can get tesco value ham. the value ham is alot cheaper, but its made from pig-willies.

Flogen

Ronaldo7

I made my pc last march for 850 Euro.

Im not giving prices for each part because that would be too much hassle to go looking. I bought all my parts from Komplett.

Chieftec Dragon Full Tower with 360watt power supply (know i got this in a special for 99euro on komplett)

MSI 648 Max Motherboard (PC Pro A-List fastest p4 motherboard not now but it was then) - this was under 100 euro on komplett. Bargain buy - amazing performance.

twinmos 512mb ddr pc 2700 ram

40 gigabyte seagate barracuda 7,400 rpm ultra quiet.

radeon 9000 pro 128mb graphics. (Still a quality graphics card...only now beginning to show its age with Halo etc coming out)

DVD Drive

Sony 52/24/52 cd rw drive

Pentium 4 2.53ghz (still a deadly processor)

Col_Loki

Im sure there are budget price components, but your machine must be at least as reliable as the Dell PC

lol, it would be a very hard job to match dell's component quality.......most retail places just wont stock such poor quality items.

Dell use the cheapest of the cheap PSU's, Motherboards, Ram, basicly anything they can get cheap they will get cheap....... the main things that sell the systems for them is the Processor, ammount of ram and ammount of H.Disk space (possible graphics card sometimes)........there gonna get the cheapest 512mb ram modules and use them, same with other products.

If your building yourself you will build cheaper, and definetly get better quality items. List the spec of the dell your thinkin of and the main things you will be using the computer for.......that will make it easier for us to give you a spec and price.

Ronaldo7

Bump to that.

My pc which is similarly specced to my friends one except his is dell...and mine owns his all over!!!

he has a better graphics card than me and i still whoop his ass. he has a ti 4200 and i have radeon 9000 pro.

No comparison.

Pacifico

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Well to start with whats will the PC be used for. The Dell model specified has budget graphics, sound, monitor and hard disk. Its hard to know who its pitched at.

in regards to the hard drive they use seagate barracuda's 7200rpm. By no means a bad drive. They are aimed at people who could'nt be bothered spending time building a pc or that dont know how.

Venom

Originally posted by Henry_14
in regards to the hard drive they use seagate barracuda's 7200rpm. By no means a bad drive. They are aimed at people who could'nt be bothered spending time building a pc or that dont know how.

Which is a good this when you consider the lack of upgrade options on Dell pc's

Kali

I must point out that when you include the cost of the operating system Dells prices are quite favourable (even if they're still a lot higher than the Dell US equivalent)... though if you are using a free operating system anyway I'd always reccomend building your own PC.

RicardoSmith

A Dell is a buy and forget PC. They use a mix match of parts and components same as everyone else inculding the home builder. You could buy 10 Dell PC and each one might have a different HD for example. I wouldn't say they were poor quality, I reckon they are very good quality systems. But they will try to make money by slipping in lower spec components, that then require you add options to the PC. The options are generally eye wateringly expensive, so thats where they make their money.

Pacifico

Whats wrong wih the upgrade options? apart from the psu and mobo the parts are standard.

Obviosly a problem who are into serious modding (like led fans:rolleyes: and overclocking)

You can still add a better sound/graphics card,ram,hdd etc.

Venom

Originally posted by Henry_14
Whats wrong wih the upgrade options? apart from the psu and mobo the parts are standard.

Obviosly a problem who are into serious modding (like led fans:rolleyes: and overclocking)

You can still add a better sound/graphics card,ram,hdd etc.

PSU,Mainboard and case are all non upgradable.

Chip may be veryhard to upgrade due to the Dell boards layout for chip fan.

Ram is expensive to upgrade on Dells Iv found.

Venom

Originally posted by Kali
I must point out that when you include the cost of the operating system Dells prices are quite favourable (even if they're still a lot higher than the Dell US equivalent)... though if you are using a free operating system anyway I'd always reccomend building your own PC.

How often do people upgrade their OS tho in all fairness. Worst would be them having to use the old OS from their current PC.

Woden

2.6 ghz pentium c €177
256mb ddr 400 ram €46
40gb 7200rpm hdd €53
some intel motherboard €70
128mb 5200 with DVI and TVout via s-video €70
17inch monitor €130
48X DVD/CD-RW combo €60
onboard sound €0
stereo speakers €7
56k modem €15
ps2 keyboard €20
2button mouse €15
crappy case and psu €60

my price €723

dells price €865

just one thing to note about dells they where offering a radeon 9800 pro upgrade on the 5200 for €150 which is a good deal oh and everything came from komplett

Pacifico

Originally posted by Venom
PSU,Mainboard and case are all non upgradable.

Chip may be veryhard to upgrade due to the Dell boards layout for chip fan.

Ram is expensive to upgrade on Dells Iv found.

Thats what i said. Ram is standard even in the dell 2400. very good ram in fact. Acording to a review in a mag i had ages ago.

Kali

I think you were a bit unclear in your post Henry

Also its worth noting that the 2400 series have onboard graphics and no agp slot, so graphics upgrades are out of the question.

Pacifico

True they have no AGP slot but you can use a PCI graphics card.

Sorry bout the whole going on about it thing. But i just think dells get an unfair amount of "bashing"

Woden

you'll be hard pushed though to find a decent pci graphics card best you'd probably get is a pci 5200 which would be fairly crap tbh

mr_angry

I wouldn't knock all of Dell's components. I bought a top-spec one back in the summer, and I seem to have been blessed with excellent stuff. The only thing is the lack of upgrade space in the case, but it'll be a long time before that becomes an issue.

For instance, I got a Radeon 9800 (First Edition). As it turns out, I was able to use my mate's Sapphire overclocking software to overclock it to 411MHz - the same speed as the 9800XT! To this date I have suffered no ill effects either. Another of my mates bought a Hercules 9800 Pro at the same time, and couldn't get anywhere near that clock speed.

Funilly enough, he spent €1600 on his self-built computer (ex. VAT, so add on another 21% for comparison) which didn't include monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, or OS. I spent €2300 which included an 18" TFT screen, new keyboard, mouse, and OS, and a set of uber Altec Lansing 5.1 surround speakers.

His score on AquaMark3: 46,900
My score on AquaMark3: 46,800

I personally think I got the better deal.

[Edit] And my computer looks nice and integrated (all midnight grey / black), while his looks like it was built by a colour-blind monkey. And he had the side of his case opened, and a large electric fan blowing cool air in the side to get that AquaMark score. If he closes his case, his computer crashes! [/Edit]

Venom

mr_angry bar having a cooling problem, your mate has a better system imho. His system is upgrade able at a later date so his next upgrade in keeping a top of the line pc is going to be alot cheeper than you, seeing as how you are very limited in the upgrade options you have.

Self built systems work out cheeper in both the short term and long term as they require less parts for the next upgrade. Also self built systems can look amazing, my Xaser III sure as hell does

netman

Well, there's one definition for Dell that holds in all cases...
"crap that works"

You could get the cheapest components around, plug them all in, and the chances are it aint gonna work. Something is gonna give you a headache, it could be that you can't get DMA to work on your DVD-ROM, or the sound card fails to initialize etc.

One thing going for Dell is that they actually test the system and make sure it works. It doesn't perform as well as a home-built one, it's certainly not top-quality, it's not upgradeable (not to the same degree), but it works.

I know I've spent days and weeks and months setting up rigs and there were times when I wished I had a Dell. There's a certain pride and pleasure in setting up your own PC that you'll never get with a Dell but I guess most people couldn't be bothered with that.

Now... on to the challenge:

Dell Dimension 8300: €865

Custom built: €733

That's with good quality components (ABIT graphics card, EPoX motherboard), twice the RAM (couldn't find 128meg modules, noone sells them anymore) etc.

That's without any software.

If you want to include software, you'll end up paying through the nose for Microsoft retail products. If you know someone who works in Microsoft you can get it all for cost price... About 10 euro for Office etc.

Btw, the EPoX motherboard have a full suite for overclocking functions in BIOS, you can boost this 2.6C Pentium 4 processor to about 3.4 GHz by just adjusting a few options. Dell doesn't allow anything like that

mr_angry

The case is the only problem. Presuming you're going to need a new motherboard in a couple of years time, due to the new chipset configurations, the only value you're loosing out on is the extra dosh for the case itself. The fact is that my mates computer is only really better by virtue of the motherboard, and its causing him significantly more problems than mine. Particularly since this is the 2nd computer he's built himself, and he's an IT professional. Expect problems if you go that road. And, finally, three words: Module Rhetention Base - every computer builders nightmare!

And of course your Xaser III looks cool - whose doesn't?

Venom

Originally posted by mr_angry
The case is the only problem. Presuming you're going to need a new motherboard in a couple of years time, due to the new chipset configurations, the only value you're loosing out on is the extra dosh for the case itself. The fact is that my mates computer is only really better by virtue of the motherboard, and its causing him significantly more problems than mine. Particularly since this is the 2nd computer he's built himself, and he's an IT professional. Expect problems if you go that road. And, finally, three words: Module Rhetention Base - every computer builders nightmare!

And of course your Xaser III looks cool - whose doesn't?

Case and psu are the problems and depending on the ram Dell are using now it might not be compatable with a new mainboard. My Dells ram from a year ago was configured for a weird ass make that cost the best part of 800 notes to upgrade to 512mb!

As for your mate being an IT professional well IT is a rather board area to be honest. Building your own PC is ALWAYS the best route to go if you know what your doing.

mr_angry

Don't get me wrong - Dells are by no means perfect. But I think the "Never-buy-a-dell" mentality is misguided. And you can quite easily hit the same problems when building a computer if you're not very very careful.

If you get the correct Dell special offers for your needs at the right time, you can come away with a better all-round package, IMO.

BadCharlie

I dont have any dell computers my self. But 3 of my friends have them and another one is getting his soon. All in all i think dell do build good computers. They have there ups and there downs as people have pointed out. It really depends on the user of the computer. What do u need it for and how long do u expect to keep it "for some dell suits for others not".

My computer is one i built my self with a friend of mine an amd2500 clocked to 3200+.

The Brigadier

Yes they do have an Intel Pentium 4 processor for power where you need it most (WTF!)..

Oh and in this day and age selling a machine without an AGP slot is taking things beyond a joke... I am sure that saves them all of about €3...

joePC

Make no mistake, building your own PC is cheaper and faster & you'll get better components.

My total with everything + case

Total: €785

You might think ahh thats not much, but almost every component selected has better preformance than the Dell Machine.

Thanks joePC

Venom

Originally posted by joePC
Make no mistake, building your own PC is cheaper and faster & you'll get better components.

My total with everything + case

Total: €785

You might think ahh thats not much, but almost every component selected has better preformance than the Dell Machine.

Thanks joePC

Same here. upgrading me Dell from 256mb to 512mb would of cost me the best part of €800. After checking with Dell and every shop I could, I gave up on the upgrade the ram option and deceided to build my own pc. Building a new pc using the exsisting monitor,mouse,keyboard,dvd+cd/r drives,HD and gfx card cost me €1000.

I ended up with a P4 3.0c, 1gb DDr 3200 ram,Abit IC-7 board and a Thermaltake case and psu and needless to say a much better system than the Dell I had or any they had for sale at the time. building your own is always the way to go

CyberGhost

got to agree with cheap components in Dells, i have dimension 8250 with 3.06ghz, 1gb ram, rad9k7, and custom built 2.8s beat me in benchmarks!

plus! there is nothing more satisfing than building your own machine! you know it! you can troubleshoot it easier! and you control what goes into the case! yea Dell may cost cheap, but i prefer to pay more and get more quality!

when i'm gonna need a change, i'm defenately going to build my own machine!

but for offices and such, Dell is unbeatable!