Aresnal-v-Villa

The Muppet

He also said he does'nt have to blow his whistle just make a signal indicating that the free was going to be taken.

O'Leary fumed: "The referee told our players to get 10 yards back and to wait for his whistle - but there was no whistle.

This is what David o Leary said about the incident and if true would cause questions about his Impartiality

Full story here

kmart6

Yeh but when O'Leary wasd asked bout Harte's free kick against Villa when he was manager,he sad that was different.What was different?The fact that his team got a goal thats all

kmart6

Originally posted by irish1
Sorry kmart, just getting a little annoyed because I'm being listening to Arsenal fans all day saying how it was a blatent penalty, and it wasn't.

Ah dont worry bout it.I think it was'nt a penalty if it's any help

The Muppet

If the Ref told Villa Players to get back and wait for the Whistle he should not have let the free kick be taken until he blew the whistle. I have seen players booked for taking quick free kicks when told to wait for the whistle.

There is no problem in taking the quick free, but IMO problems arise when you consider the refs part in this incident if O learys version is accurate.

Villain

Originally posted by kmart6
Yeh but when O'Leary wasd asked bout Harte's free kick against Villa when he was manager,he sad that was different.What was different?The fact that his team got a goal thats all

To be honest do the Ref had moved well away from the ball and had stopped moving for that one, if you look at the one yesterday the ref was still moving away and was very near.

As Wenger said it needs to be clarified, no clear ruling on it.

I don't like the way the ref asked Henry IF HE WANTED to take the free kick, surely thats not right, I've been playing soccer for a lot of years and used to take the free kicks and I never had the referee stand beside me and ask me if I wanted to take a quick free kick, just doesn't sound right.

kmart6

Suppose you have a point there

The quick free is somrthing that is'nt done much and is very recent

Hyzepher

OK - I was just watching Sky tonight and they had a statement from the referee and the head referee. Yesterday the ref never told the villa players anything about waiting for the whistle - as far as the rules go the ref askes the free taker whether he wants the wall back or not - if not, he is free to take the kick at any time. Henry said he didn't want to wait for the wall 1 - 0.

Later in the game they stated that Angel was also asked if he wanted the wall back or to take the kick - he opted for the wall back and therefore the ref paced out the 10 yards.

The head referee concurred that this was the rule and the ref was completely right. The real issue was the villa players who failed to concentrate.

The villa 'fan zone' member on Sky also said that after watching the reply he thought the ref was right.

Hyzepher

The Muppet

Originally posted by Hyzepher
OK - I was just watching Sky tonight and they had a statement from the referee and the head referee. Yesterday the ref never told the villa players anything about waiting for the whistle - as far as the rules go the ref askes the free taker whether he wants the wall back or not - if not, he is free to take the kick at any time. Henry said he didn't want to wait for the wall 1 - 0.

Later in the game they stated that Angel was also asked if he wanted the wall back or to take the kick - he opted for the wall back and therefore the ref paced out the 10 yards.

The head referee concurred that this was the rule and the ref was completely right. The real issue was the villa players who failed to concentrate.

The villa 'fan zone' member on Sky also said that after watching the reply he thought the ref was right.

Hyzepher

I saw that too and now there are two versions of events one of whic cannot be true. If the ref is correct in what he said then the incident is not as serious as if O learys version of events is true.

However I still wonder why the ref asked Henry if he wanted to take it quickly as he has admitted he did, I would have expected the request to come from the player. The ref could clearly see that Villa were not ready so by asking does leave him open to criticism IMO.

Hyzepher

Originally posted by The Muppet
However I still wonder why the ref asked Henry if he wanted to take it quickly as he has admitted he did, I would have expected the request to come from the player. The ref could clearly see that Villa were not ready so by asking does leave him open to criticism IMO.

Because that is how the rule is inforced - the ref asks whether he wants 10 yards or not - if not he is free to take the kick at any time - it is up to the defense to be ready. He gave the same option to Angel.

Back in the Arsenal/Leeds game - whicj they showed last night also - you could see the ref giving the same option to Harte.

Hyzepher

cournioni

An interesting question came to mind today... Say if one of the Villa players heard Henry asking for a quick free kick and they ran out from the wall to block it, would the referee move the ball forward or what would he do?

I have no problem with Henry's goal, it was perfectly within the laws of the game. But I think the rules regarding this should be changed.

Villain

Originally posted by Hyzepher
Because that is how the rule is inforced - the ref asks whether he wants 10 yards or not - if not he is free to take the kick at any time - it is up to the defense to be ready. He gave the same option to Angel.

Back in the Arsenal/Leeds game - whicj they showed last night also - you could see the ref giving the same option to Harte.

Hyzepher

Sorry mate but thats not acurate, that is how THIS referee decided to inforce the rule, it is not a general rule between all referee's.

He gave the same option to Angel and could cleary see that 2 Arsenal players were standing directly in front of the ball obstructing him, going by the rules they should have been punished and the ball bought forward 10 yards!

My 2 brothers are referees that have attended the FAI school of excellence for referees and they both concurred that the ref was wrong to ask Henry given that he could clearly see the team wasn't ready.

If you watch the tape you will see the referee talking to the Villa wall, Villa players say he told them to wait for the whistle who can prove their lying??

The Muppet

Because that is how the rule is inforced - the ref asks whether he wants 10 yards or not - if not he is free to take the kick at any time - it is up to the defense to be ready. He gave the same option to Angel.

Never thought of it that way TBH. Its obviously an area that needs to be clarified.

Hyzepher

Originally posted by irish1
Sorry mate but thats not acurate, that is how THIS referee decided to inforce the rule, it is not a general rule between all referee's.

According to the FA head referee it is. He sent out a statement yesterday - read out on Sky.

The incident where the 2 Arsenal players stood over the ball should have resulted in some words/action taken but thats not the issue.

Hyzepher

Villain

Originally posted by Hyzepher
According to the FA head referee it is. He sent out a statement yesterday - read out on Sky.

The incident where the 2 Arsenal players stood over the ball should have resulted in some words/action taken but thats not the issue.

Hyzepher

No its not the rule, it's within the referees scope to that if he wishes but it's not arule and it's very odd that he would do it kowing the other team wasn't ready.

You can't say that no action being taken against the Arsenal players is not the issue, because it is part of it, he didn't inforce the rules on one team but asked the other team if they wanted to take a quick free kick, thats not being impartial.

Hyzepher

Answer me this - does the ref ask the defense if they are ready for every free kick on the park? No - then why is a free kick near the box any different?

Hyzepher

Villain

Originally posted by Hyzepher
Answer me this - does the ref ask the defense if they are ready for every free kick on the park? No - then why is a free kick near the box any different?

Hyzepher

No but he is meant to clearly step away from the ball before the kick is taken.

Answer me this does th referee ask the player everytime a free kick is awarderd if they want to take it quick??

Hyzepher

Originally posted by irish1
Answer me this does th referee ask the player everytime a free kick is awarderd if they want to take it quick??

In a way yes - the option of 10 yards only comes up when the opposition MAY form a wall. The speed of the kick is not an issue - the ref is giving the attacking player an option when the opposition may form a wall and the attacker wants the full 10 yards. The condition of the defense is neither here nor there. The ref has no obligation to delay the game just to make sure they are ready

Hyzepher

Villain

Originally posted by Hyzepher
In a way yes - the option of 10 yards only comes up when the opposition MAY form a wall. The speed of the kick is not an issue - the ref is giving the attacking player an option when the opposition may form a wall and the attacker wants the full 10 yards. The condition of the defense is neither here nor there. The ref has no obligation to delay the game just to make sure they are ready

Hyzepher

But he doesn't ask them, if he says yes when asked and hits the ball of a player that isn't 10 yards away I bet the ref asked for a retake. I also bet that not every ref asks players if they want 10 yards, its inconsistent.

Look what ever you think, in this case the ref was wrong because he was still moving from the ball whne the kick was taken he hadn't moved away from the ball