Tesco & Dunnes fined

MadsL

Tesco and Dunnes fined for below-cost selling

Dublin District Court has fined Tesco and Dunnes €20,000 each for breaching the Groceries Order by selling goods at below-cost prices.

The two stores were taken to court following complaints from RGDATA, the organisation representing small and medium-sized retail outlets, about discounted baby food.

Me does happy dance.

Now they need to fine them for the scandalous prices they charge for pre-packaged veg displayed without unit pricing.

In the meantime more happy dancing!!!!

Doodah7

Originally posted by MadsL
Me does happy dance.

Why are you so pleased?? They were actually charging cheap prices to the consumer and they got fined for it!!

Personally I have no time for RGDATA who seem to want to keep the status quo for the rip off Centra/Spar etc.

dudara

An article I read stated that the government wants to get rid of the legislation that Dunnes and Tesco were prosecuted under in order to allow more competition. THe fines imposed were punitive, because the judge knew that they really weren't doing anything

PWEI

What about the products Tesco's are charging more than double for.
That survey done recently found that Tesco, Habitat and Argos are all charging their Irish customers more than their British counterparts for the exact same products.
Tescos razor blades were 87% more expensive here than in UK.

parsi

Originally posted by PWEI
What about the products Tesco's are charging more than double for.
That survey done recently found that Tesco, Habitat and Argos are all charging their Irish customers more than their British counterparts for the exact same products.
Tescos razor blades were 87% more expensive here than in UK.

ah yeah... the great FG survey based on a shopping basket of a whole 5 items... right we all go to Tesco and buy just 5 items..

.. I find it hard to believe that blades are 87% higher over here. It must be poor own-brand ones because I haven't seen that disparity on Gilette blades (and I've looked in order to see if money could be saved...)


It also said that M&S charge the same as the Uk -aceptable because the UK cost is usually printed on the packaging...it said that Dixons charge the same as the Uk - but failed to mention that both prices are ripoffs anyway !

MrPudding

I know it is hard to believe but seemingly the ban on below cost selling is good for the consumer. I heard a guy on nestalk 106 a while ago. Can't remember his name but be successfully fought the opening of a walmart in his hometown in the states. He would appear to be a fighter for the consumer. He says the below cost selling ban is inportant and should stay. I don't have the time but I'm sure a little searching will bring up his name.

Another point. This grocery act only covers a small number of items. Why do they not sell the items not covered by the act below cost? Below cost selling is a tool that retailers use to get you through the door where thay rip the arse out of you on other things.

MrP

MadsL

TallPaul, read up on the effect of large Mega Market chains like Tesco. they bully suppliers and farmers, have no scruples about buying 'Israeli' tomatoes from the illegally-occupied territories, pay themselves as a board extraordinary amounts and yet do not pay dividends to shareholders, and generally demand more than a reasonable margin from the consumer. they are becoming bad news, and are expanding into emerging markets like crazy.

The Irish spent more in Tesco last year than was spent on the roads! This chain is getting way too big to be good for the consumer.

eth0_

Originally posted by MadsL
TallPaul, read up on the effect of large Mega Market chains like Tesco. they bully suppliers and farmers, have no scruples about buying 'Israeli' tomatoes from the illegally-occupied territories

So farmers in illegally occupied territories don't have the right to have companies buy their produce....?
Anyway, that's beside the point. Given that Ireland has become so laughably expensive to live in in recent years, you're living in a dream world if you think anyone other than a small minority will let their emotions/politics guide them to the supermarket, rather than shopping in the cheapest supermarket.

MadsL

Interesting that you always want to defend the indefensible eth0_;


2 points;

1. I believe that consumers have the right to have food correctly labelled as to where it is produced. If that is on land that has been settled by Israel after bulldozing homes then I for one will think twice about buying goods produced at the expense of others suffering. Tesco for one label these goods as 'Made in Israel' not 'Grown on land forcibly and illegally wrested from Palestininan families'.

2. No I am not 'living in a dream world if you think anyone other than a small minority will let their emotions/politics guide them to the supermarket, rather than shopping in the cheapest supermarket.'

Boycotts of South African goods were an effective weapon against apartheid in the 80s, the Govt has lobbied for years to 'Buy Irish', and what I for one am applauding here is the application of a law preventing below cost selling that allows a Government to protect us against our own greed in order to best serve society.

I for one do not wish to see a monopoly on food retailing, even if they sell cheap baby food. the larger the really big food chains get, the more they abuse their position.

Doodah7

Generally I shop in Tesco or Dunnes for the following reasons and in the following priority:- price, convenience and range of products.

Large supermarkets are able to charge lower prices because they squeeze the manufacturer. This is called a commercial reality. These companies are not in business for the good of their health but to make a PROFIT. So what if the board award themselves or their shareholders healthy dividends. That is what a well run company is meant to do.

Supermarket open early and close late but do not add a huge markup for the privilege unlike Spar/MAce, Centra etc. My original comments were that RGDATA support these stores and want to retain the Groceries Order so supermarkets can't blow them out of the water. If they were competitive on price, they wouldn't have to fear the supermarkets so much. They have the advantage of convenience.

Frankly, a few farmers in Israel selling a few tomatoes does not really anount to very much and I think you would have to go a fair way to find a prospective tomato purchaser who is even aware of the (non) issue of Israeli tomato growers.

JHMEG

What I find galling about the razor blade thing with Tesco is that all the other stores, like Superquinn etc are charging the same, if not more than Tesco. I think the Fine Gael survey, while on the right track, missed out on the bigger picture.

Genghis

I have no doubt that Tesco are more expensive here in Ireland than in the UK. Anecdotally, Tesco in the UK is viewed as one of the cheaper major supermarkets in the UK, whereas my experience in Ireland is that they are one of the most expensive.

The biggest fault wih the FG survey is that they just made themselves look stupid - what conclusion can you make from 5 random items? They should've compared a standard basket - something like the list of items used to gauge CPO, or use a list that consumer watchdogs use to track pricing, or the top 100 items sold in supermarkets as compiled by TNS, etc. If they were serious about rip-offs and not headlines then a little more effort would have been put in to it.

For my own shopping, I always use Lidl first (fruit, veg, meat, bread, milk, still water, washing powder, cleaning products, pasta, sauces, some biscuits) Tesco second for branded products such as cereal, some frozen products, tinned items, yogurts, etc and anything Lidl don't stock (unfortunately Tesco are the only decent supermarket within 10 miles of my home). When in Tesco I also always look for specials, and heavily discounted 'near to sell-by date' items.

I find that they Tescos are very poor at stock ordering / rotation (you can often buy items that should have a shelf life of a week +, but that pass their best before date a couple of days after you buy them), and this is the reason why they regularly have 'clearance bargains'.

Lastly, I buy all my deodorants, razors, toothpaste, shampoo etc in Boots (3 for 2 on a lo of items), or some of the 'pound shops' (branded items only), or bulk buy them in the North. These items are hugely expensive in Tesco, they can easily comprise 20-30% of your groceries.

I would say that by 'Shopping trolley volume' I buy about 50/50 between Lidl and Tesco, but the € cost is more like 30/70. I have to laugh at my local Tesco, they trot out two trollies each week - one with Lidl products, one with Tesco 'value' products, and a big sign showing that they caost the same in both stores. The trouble is that the Value range in Tesco is muck in almost all cases, whereas Lidl tend to offer much higher quality.

sovtek

I understand the purpose of the below cost law. It's to keep from monopolies springing up. I'm not sure how effective it is though.
In addition to that law there needs to be encouragement for more competition in Ireland. I think Lidl and Aldi are helping to provide that. I can't remember the details but it seems they met some roadblocks like alot of other "foreign" companies that come in to Ireland.
Not being Irish (which shouldn't matter IMHO) I couldn't care less about "buying Irish". If the Irish company puts out a good product and value for money, then they will get my money. If they don't...they won't. I apply the same to the "buy USA" campaign from years back. I refuse to buy an American car for example.
Unfortunetly, my experience is that Irish often don't offer very good quality and charge way to much for what they do offer up.
I refuse to buy Israeli tomatoes myself. They often have them in Marks and Sparks. Is it going to get the Zionist fanatics out of the illegal settlements, doubt it, but I'm surely not going to support them.
I'm not sure how effective the sanctions against SA were. My wife told me she often saw produce in Germany marked with "Spain" which she knew came from SA from their company name.
What it came down to was the apartheid government's fear of a civil war. That's my wife's take on it anyway.

vibe666

supermarkets fined for selling stuff cheaply?

they should be given trophies ffs.

if they'd been fined for overpricing stuff then yeah, bring on the happy dancing, but not for giving people a good deal.

:rolleyes:

Doodah7

Originally posted by sovtek

I'm not sure how effective the sanctions against SA were. My wife told me she often saw produce in Germany marked with "Spain" which she knew came from SA from their company name.
What it came down to was the apartheid government's fear of a civil war. That's my wife's take on it anyway.

What I think may have happened here that it is quite common for companies to be known as -say- "Tallpaul SA". The SA is the European equivalent of 'Ltd.' in a company name.

sovtek

Originally posted by tallpaul
What I think may have happened here that it is quite common for companies to be known as -say- "Tallpaul SA". The SA is the European equivalent of 'Ltd.' in a company name.

She knew the company was a SA company not because of an abbrev but because she grew up in SA (her parents are from Germany) and knew that particular company symbol and name belonged to a South African company.

LFCFan

It's one thing fining the likes of Dunnes and Tesco for below cost selling but why isn't anything done to curb the spiralling cost of the majoity of goods????

Tom Dunne

Originally posted by vibe666
supermarkets fined for selling stuff cheaply?

they should be given trophies ffs.

if they'd been fined for overpricing stuff then yeah, bring on the happy dancing, but not for giving people a good deal.

Yes, but what happens when (especially outside Dublin) the bigger shops put the smaller, local shops out of business by selling below cost? Yes, prices reduce in the short-term, but when the small shops can't compete and fold, then watch the prices sky-rocket in the bigger shops.

LFCFan

Originally posted by tom dunne
Yes, but what happens when (especially outside Dublin) the bigger shops put the smaller, local shops out of business by selling below cost? Yes, prices reduce in the short-term, but when the small shops can't compete and fold, then watch the prices sky-rocket in the bigger shops.

But the small shops are not there to compete with the supermarkets. They couldn't. Smaller shops are more convenience stores etc. Whatever the reasons for not selling below cost, the main reason I'm pissed off with this is the fact that nothing is done to stop them ripping us off but when they do something that benefits us they get fined. Typcial!

MadsL

when they do something that benefits us they get fined.

That's a short term view, LFC. Ultimately if we allow below cost selling by the supermarkets then that dog-eat-dog means that the biggest dog will win. Look at Tesco's market share in the UK at the moment, and not just the UK - they are turning into one of the biggest single retailers in Europe.

Why is that bad?

Well, they are then in position to squeeze suppliers - look at what a Welsh sheep farmer gets for his lamb and then what Tesco charge (and we end up paying) Tesco's make the profit, farmers get shafted and we end up paying.

Big supermarket chains are bad news - Monster supermarket chains are really bad news. Below cost selling is the fisrt step towards allowing Tesco's to leverage it's massive buying power to all but kill off it's Irish rivals. Below cost now, extremely expensive in the long-term.

Tesco's have a very greedy attitude towards profit margin - typically 3.5% - and that is in the UK where below-cost is allowed. Not much you think, Walmart the closest American comparision makes do with a 1.5% profit margin. Tesco will not reveal it's Irish profits or margins.

If you think I am exaggerating bear in mind that as consumers we spent more in Tesco last year than the govt spent on roads.

LFCFan

Originally posted by MadsL
That's a short term view, LFC.

I understand that and I don't condone what they're doing. The point I'm trying to makes is, why are they fined for below cost selling but nothing is ever done to stop them making exccesive profits? You say their UK profit margin is 3.5%. How much you betting their Irish one is a lot more!

star gazer

The job of the competition authority is to ensure an ending to all anti-competitive practices possible. The fact that they only have one minor conviction to their name in a time when Ireland has moved from being relatively cheap to relatively expensive within europe, it strikes as rather odd. Tescos and Dunnes would love a phoney war on half a dozen items out of the hundreds (if not thousands) of products they sell, people who complained about prices would have it thrown back at them how cheap a small range of products are and they should be grateful.

MadsL

Well said stargazer. Tesco's in my neck of the woods regularly flout the law (it is not uncommon to see items completely unpriced, or missing unit prices for weeks on end)
The ODCA slapped my local branch for not displaying unit prices on beer, as soon as the inspector left the store they completely ignored her demands.

Guess what - in my local store to this day, unpriced beer and un-unit priced beer are still on display.

They also pick and choose about pre-packaged vegetable unit pricing. Usually the stuff they are chargin three times the price for.

At this stage the ODCA are a joke to Tesco's.

MadsL

The ODCA slapped my local branch for not displaying unit prices on beer, as soon as the inspector left the store they completely ignored her demands.

An update - the beer in my local Tesco now looks like it has measles there are so many SELs on it. Methinks another visit from the ODCA inspector did the trick...

...amazing what a phone call will do...