Second Provisional?

seamus

Originally posted by Rodney Trotter
Shure look at all the muppets who cannot even put an L plate on properly. If someone cannot tell which way around an "L" should be, imagine how they're supposed to control a motorised vehicle.

LOL, I completely agree. Anyone who hasn't the spatial ability to realise that it has to be backwards to you, for others to see it, shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a motorised vehicle

rs

Rodney, you are full of sh*t, not because I don't agree with the most of the points you make, but because you fail to see the big picture to identify the root causes of the problems.

I agree with that provo drivers should not be allowed to drive by themselves. I took my first driving test in Canada, and this was the case. It was very illegal to drive without a qualified driver in the car over there, and it was strictly enforced. fair enough. The difference is, I called up to book my test two weeks before I took it.

However, not being able to drive for 12 months while you wait for a test is stupid. Particularly, people like myself who already hold valid foreign licences.

People here are allowed to drive on provo licences because the testing system is crap. What's even worse is that it's always been crap and no-one has bothered to fix it. That's the root cause of the provo problem, and that's what needs to be fixed.

Another great thing about driving in Canada was that everyone paid the same insurance premium. It was based on the value of your car and your driving record. Both me and my mum were insured for the first time at around the same time (on different cars). We paid the same for our insurance. It's illegal for insurance companies over there to discriminate based on age and sex. A first time driver was considered just as much of a risk, as any other first time driver.

Canada also has a penalty points system. If you prove yourself to be a bad driver, by getting points or making claims your premiums go up. If you don't and you get your no claims and premiums go down.

I'd more than welcome much stricter traffic laws, enforcement and penalty points here. We need it, because so many people here are simply bad drivers. And from what I've seen on the roads, it's certainly not just young people with provos who don't know what they're doing. All of these people need to be removed from the roads.

leeroybrown

I agree that provisional drivers shouldn't be allowed to drive unsupervised on the roads but with caveats.

It's all fine and well saying that prvisional drivers should be kept off the roads but the major issue here is the amount of time it takes to get to a test. When I got a provisional licence I did a course of lessons. When I applied, I had to wait over 7 months to get notification of the test which ended u falling during my colege exams so I couldn't get home. I then had to wait a further 5 and a half months for notification of the second test date. I passed this test but ended up in a situation where I had to drive unaccompanied reasonably regularly or give up a good job.

The problem is that there is no mechanism for a driver to quickly demonstrate competency so that they can get regular driving practice and get a license quickly once they have sufficient ability.

MojoMaker

How come it's only fully licensed drivers (and newly licensed at that) that want unsupervised provisional drivers off the road? Bit hypocritical isn't it? Now you want an end to a system that benefitted you greatly in your own time, a system that incidentally you had no problem with at the time, a system that spared you from ever really learning how to drive and let you off the hook regarding sitting & passing driving tests. Shure, wasn't it great back then, but no, now you have a licence you automatically move to the moral high ground. That's pretty pathetic.

Nothing more sanctimonious in Ireland right now than a new qualified driver it seems. Cop the **** on.

I had a provisional for a few months once and I was bloody glad of the opportunity to practice driving on my own. The government could of course hire about 100 new driving testers and have this whole mess sorted out in about 12 months.

seamus

Originally posted by MojoMaker
How come it's only fully licensed drivers (and newly licensed at that) that want unsupervised provisional drivers off the road? Bit hypocritical isn't it? Now you want an end to a system that benefitted you greatly in your own time, a system that incidentally you had no problem with at the time, a system that spared you from ever really learning how to drive and let you off the hook regarding sitting & passing driving tests.

To be fair, most drivers with full licences got them through passing the test. I had no problem driving unsupervised at the time, but also wouldn't have given out if they decided to enforce the law. I was simply exploiting a farce in Irish society. It's wrong sure, which is why I tend not to go mental about provisionals driving alone. It's not right, but I can't give out. By the same token, it's like looking back now at some of the things you did as a teenager, and thinking "God, I was an idiot", and giving out to kids for doing exactly what you used to do. I don't see anything hypocritical in using your experience to augment your beliefs, so long as you admit that it was just as wrong when you did it yourself (and obviously, that you don't do it anymore). The system I would like to see introduced, I actually decided on when I was a learner, and would be far more restrictive than the current system . Pity I'm not Minister for Transport

I had a provisional for a few months once and I was bloody glad of the opportunity to practice driving on my own. The government could of course hire about 100 new driving testers and have this whole mess sorted out in about 12 months.

Indeed. Not allowing provisional drivers unaccompanied at any stage, is a bit overkill IMO. You'll end up with new drivers coming out, technically proficient, but with little or no experience. Driving is 10% Luck, 10% Skill, and 80% experience IMO.

shoegirl

Well the problem is not the competency of drivers, or the colour of their license - the problem is that by allowing unaccompanied provisional license holders to drive is that we are introducing them to a culture of noncompliance with the law and condoning it.

Now the problem is actually much the same as saying its "ok" to break the law and that speed laws are "rubbish." We are questioning the law, and very probably breaking it.

The road laws are there for the protection of all road users, those who drive and those who don't. Most of the laws are based on 100 years of international driving experience. What I find incredible is the sheer arrogance of people who have convinced themselves that speeding, drinking etc doesn't increase. As for the first class halfwit who believes that big cars are "safer" than small ones - I'd love you to meet a 38 year old friend whose pelvis was shattered due to the impact of a 4x4 while she waits for a hip replacement - any actuary will tell you that the bigger the vehicle and the engine the higher the risk.

The problem in Ireland has been a general lack of compliance - the flipside of this is enforcement - if the laws were enforced then this would discourage noncompliance. This is why it would be good were the laws regarding provisional license holders were to be enforced - it would lead to greater compliance as more laws are seen to be enforced.