11+ to be abolished - good or bad?

Johnny_the_fox

The 11+ is to be abolished....

From the bbc

The 11-plus transfer test and academic selection in Northern Ireland are to be abolished.
Educationalists gathered at Stormont to hear Education Minister Jane Kennedy's announcement on Monday following consideration of the Costello Group's report.

The government-appointed working body was set up to suggest alternatives to the current transfer tests which determine, at age 11, whether a child will go to a grammar or secondary school.

The group has set a lengthy timescale. The last 11-plus transfer test will be in 2008. Pupils currently in Primary 2 will be the last to do it.

Ms Kennedy said the current transfer arrangements had significant weaknesses and there were inequalities of access for pupils.

"This new development will essentially be a passport to learning for each pupil," she said.

"It will entitle them to access to a minimum number and range of courses, including for the first time, a choice of vocational courses, regardless of the school they attend or where they live.

The minister said academic selection would end and new transfer arrangements would be based on parental choice, informed by pupil profile and better information about options.

Costello 'unanimous'

According to BBC Northern Ireland's education correspondent Maggie Taggart: "The Costello group was unanimous in its recommendation to abolish academic selection as well as the unpopular 11-plus transfer test.

"The group had some members representing the grammar schools and although those schools will remain, from 2008 they will not be allowed to choose children on their academic ability.


In the run-up to the announcement, BBC Newsline carried out an in-depth opinion poll on what people think about the exam.

The BBC Northern Ireland's education correspondent said most of the 1000 people surveyed wanted to keep selection for grammar schools.

However, the majority thought that major decisions on a child's future should be delayed until children are older.

Of those questioned, the survey found that 56% thought that the current system was generally fair but that the 11-plus should be abolished.

But a majority of teachers - 53% - said it was not fair.

According to the survey, the area people live in has an effect on the answers they give. People in Fermanagh were most opposed to the current system.

A majority 63% said doing the test was not a positive experience whereas in Antrim, only 42% felt the same.

When asked if the 11-plus was fair, 42% of people in Fermanagh said it was, but, in Antrim, 62% of respondents felt it was a fair system.

Abolition move

Former education minister Martin McGuinness had moved to abolish the current secondary level education selection system hours before he left office in October 2002.

The Sinn Fein MP said the final 11-plus tests should be in 2004.

Ms Kennedy, who assumed the education portfolio when the Northern Ireland Assembly collapsed in October 2002, had said she intended to follow the course of action set out by Mr McGuinness.

is this a good or bad for the north?

j0e9o

tbh it will be a good thing for those who are put under pressure by the public eye to do well in tests and stuff etc but I sure children will still have to sit entry tests of some kind so really it hasn't done away with the test but shifted it a little from the public eye. So i a way i would say it is better because it puts young children under less pressure to preform and takes the whole public result thing away. But i doubt it will mean any big changes

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Good thing.

The wheat is filtered from the chafe! :ninja:

Antisocialiser

puts young children under less pressure to preform

So does bill but i dont hear u complaining...

Chada

Looeooeol

][cEMAN**

I'm not going to say either way on this because I haven't yet decided. Yes it puts children under pressure, but tbh no more so than the exams they may start to face the year after.

When I went from primary school to college we had exams to sit every year. I didn't much like it, but I was used to it by then because of so much time preparing for the 11+.

Pro's --

Prepares kids early for exams and learning practices.
Makes kids apply the knowledge they have had shoveled into them until that point

Cons --

Stressfull
Some schools often class pupils on it

TBH there are a few things on this. For those who say "There is an 11+ thing on TV tonight to show you how you would do with the current exam" - that's BULL****! OK I sat and passed the 11+ but if I thought for 1 minute that the stuff I had been taught was ALL that was being taught now, i'd crack at the education system. Kids are meant to learn more as children now than we did at their age.

If you were to sit any exam now that you sat say 5 years ago, it would have changed so much that the chances of you passing would be slim!!

The main problem with schools classing pupils as well isn't the 11+, but rather the teachers blinkered view of their students. They are responsible for giving EVERYONE an equal education, not deciding in their flawed wisdom WHO should be taught and who should be ignored. A lot of teachers will have class favourites but they shouldn't give any less emphasis on teaching the other students. It's a mild form of bigotry in my opinion.

Long term the whole system should be looked at and fixed, but in the meantime i'd say for the sake of the education of the children, that yes it be scrapped. However only until they can sort out teachers practices, and the equal education system! Once they sort that, bring back the 11+ and let the kids apply knowledge. You forget things unless you apply them.

Oriel

It's definately a bad thing.
Let's not beat around the bush here folks - there are smart people, and there are stupid people. The 11+ was the best thing for weeding the stupid people out of of the "better" schools. Though unfortunately, it isn't 100% foolproof.

/edit - from experience, when some "slip through the net", most have no interest in learning in secondary school, instead, they hold most of the other people back, and feel that they are in school because they have to be.

I certainly don't think that the "replacement" will do quite the same thing that the 11+ did. A lot of people complained "but it isn't fair to to people so young through such an important test", so when is the right time? It's no so much of a "test" more of an "evaluation" of what they are capable of mentally.

I may sound somewhat "elitist", but it is personal experience from which I gained this insight.

Or so my opinion goes anyway.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

I meant a bad thing by the way

][cEMAN**

Why not scrap the 11+ and bring in earlier easier grading? Or do people consider homework to be enough? Why not have an end of year test for kids from when they first join P1, and just have it as something they can work up to. That way they won't get stressed out later when doing tests as it's something they're used to.

TBH I think a lot of panic over tests is due to things like the 11+. If you start it earlier and make it part of the kids lifestyel they won't freak as much as when they have a really important test thrown at them a few years after they start, that is so important because it determines their future in which schools they can/can't attend.

Mr_Roger_Bongos

Some sense in starting earlier, but i would disagree with p1. No matter when tests are, some parents will always put too much pressure on children to preform. Imagine being stressed at P1! I think 11 is definately time enough.

Johnny_the_fox

Mr_Roger_Bongos you have a point.

Parents and teachers IMO put far too much pressure on the children during 11+