Wine

luckat

Just went to do a food shop, and my food was €28 and the wine - two bottles, friends coming to dinner - €18.

When is someone going to break this ridiculous cartel? Is there *anywhere* to buy wine at normal European prices?

pipers

cherbourg

Genghis

I think you will find that in a lot of cases import duties, taxes and VAT make up a large part of the price, as is the case with all alcohol sold here. However, iirc about 2 yrs ago McCreevy removed a specific 'wine tax' that at the time was predicted to take either £1 or €1 of the average bottle of wine. AFAIK that law change was made, it would be interesting to see if anyone tracks wine prices to see if it made any difference at the till (I'm guessing it didn't).

sceptre

Isn't the duty on a bottle of wine currently something like €2.05 as well?

luckat

How much *exactly* of the price is tariffs and taxes?

I assume Britain has the same sort of import taxes on imported wine, but wine is way, way cheaper there.

Perhaps it's tax, but it feels like a cartel. Bet it is.

ednwireland

was in france last september again brought back 88 bottles of wine bought from hyper u and various vineyards plus spirits etc reckon it saved me the price of the ferry crossing (was on holiday as well) next time probably do a 3 or 5 day return.
bought stuff at less than a euro a bottle which is 5 here, bought some at 4-5 which is 10-15 here and bought premier cru chablis at 9 euro a bottle 25 euro in supervalue.

LFCFan

what restaraunts charge for wine has nothing to do with taxes. Recently we had dinner with a bottle of wine that just happened to be a bottle we had recently purchased in a wine store. We paid €8.99, the restaurant were charging €27.99. Draw your own conclusions!

Protocol

There are two taxes on wine: VAT and excise duty.

Excise duty is levied at two rates: sparkling and non-sparkling. The normal non-sparkling rate was £1.61 per bottle, which is €2.05. Sparkling wine has twice this amount of duty.

Somebody previously referred to an extra tax on wine. No such thing, never was.

VAT is the standard 21%.

The reasons wine is cheaper on the continent are:

1. Very low, or zero, rates of duty. ZERO in Germany, a few cent a bottle in France.
2. Lower VAT. 16% in Germany and Spain.
3. Lower transport costs.
4. Economies of scale, they sell vast amounts of wine, we are a smaller market.
5. Yes, maybe excessive profits in Ireland.

Protocol.

LFCFan

Originally posted by Protocol
1. Very low, or zero, rates of duty. ZERO in Germany, a few cent a bottle in France.
2. Lower VAT. 16% in Germany and Spain.
3. Lower transport costs.
4. Economies of scale, they sell vast amounts of wine, we are a smaller market.
5. Yes, maybe excessive profits in Ireland.

1 to 4 go out the window as an explanation when 5 is on the list. 1 to 4 may account for a couple of Euro in the difference, not 10+ in the difference. It's profiteering pure and simple. Transport costs as an excuse is bull****. You can buy a bottle of Jameson whiskey on the continent for a hell of a lot less than you pay for it in Ireland. Companies have gotten away with so much extortion in Ireland for so long without being penalised so why should we expect them to change now? It's all down to successive governments and their inaction and the apathy of the Irish people.

magick

Just went to do a food shop, and my food was €28 and the wine - two bottles, friends coming to dinner - €18

threesome with friends - priceless:D

Protocol

You can buy a bottle of Jameson whiskey on the continent for a hell of a lot less than you pay for it in Ireland.

There is VERY HIGH duty on spirits in Ireland.

Used to be 31 pence per measure (=shot). That's 39.36 cent. In past year or two, 20 cent extra was added in the Budget. Now equals 60 cents, that's €11.70 per 70cl bottle.

So a €25 bottle of Jameson here has €4.34 VAT and €11.70 duty. That's €16 tax. That is the main reason it is so much cheaper on the continent.

Remember, they pay much higher income tax and PRSI, though we pay higher VAT and duties. Overall, taxes are lower in Irealnd than most EU countries.

LFCFan

Originally posted by Protocol
Remember, they pay much higher income tax and PRSI, though we pay higher VAT and duties. Overall, taxes are lower in Irealnd than most EU countries.

I'd rather have higher tax if it meant stealth taxes were either removed or dramitically reduced. There's no point coming out with €300 extra a month if all the stealth taxes mean you end up paying out €500 extra a month. It's a sick joke how much money were are paying in taxes when we buy goods and services, expecially when it comes to Cars and alcohol.

Sarsfield

Originally posted by LFCFan
There's no point coming out with €300 extra a month if all the stealth taxes mean you end up paying out €500 extra a month.

Read Protocols post again. Overall we pay LESS tax. Indirect tax gives us the option of whether or not we want to pay.

Personally, as someone who drinks very modestly (mostly wine by the way), and chooses not to drive, I'm fine with the higher indirect tax and lower direct.

LFCFan

Originally posted by Sarsfield
Personally, as someone who drinks very modestly (mostly wine by the way), and chooses not to drive, I'm fine with the higher indirect tax and lower direct.

Bully for you but not everyone has the luxury of not driving unfortunatly

Sarsfield

But the majority of people drive and yet we STILL pay less tax overall. If you paid €300 less on motoring taxes and €400 more on income taxes would you be happy?

I agree I'm particularly lucky as I don't indulge in the most popular vices (drinking, smoking and driving). I won't tell you what MY vices are

LFCFan

Originally posted by Sarsfield
I won't tell you what MY vices are

It's alright, they don't tax that yet

But the majority of people drive and yet we STILL pay less tax overall. If you paid €300 less on motoring taxes and €400 more on income taxes would you be happy?

The problem here is the cost of living outstrips the average wage. Prices would have to come down 20% to be more in line with what we're earning. The salary I could get for my job is up to 100% higher in other countries and in the case of the States 150% in some instances. People go on about how London is more expensive than Dublin so we should be greatful but what they neglect to realise is that wages and salaries are a lot higher than in Dublin.

I think the biggest problem is value for money. Wine for instance, getting back on topic, is rediculously priced in Ireland and it's not all down to taxes. I'm getting married next year and the hotel we're having the reception in has a list of wine we can choose. One of the bottles is the same one we drink all the time. We pay €8.99 a bottle for it, they are charging €21.50. They will already be making a fortune off us for the meal etc yet they still decide to charge a rediculous amount for their wine. Needless to say we'll be bringing our own!

Protocol

Though I did say that overall the tax burden in Ireland is lower than the overall tax burden in most EU countries, I also must add that the cost of living/value for money ratio is poor in Ireland.

Yes, our wages are among the higher in Europe, plus our PRSI deductions are very low, but we do face higher indirect taxes, and a more general level of higher prices.

Add in very high house prices, and I would say we are worse off overall.

Though it's hard to say.

PS Many items are similarly priced between Ireland and the continent. Wine, especially in restaurants, happens to be one product where there is a gulf in prices.

LFCFan

Originally posted by Protocol
Many items are similarly priced between Ireland and the continent.

For example?

Protocol

Petrol, it is actually cheaper here.

Pharma products, e.g. lip balm

Car parking.

Fresh meat.

Of course, the continent is not homogenous. Spain tends to be cheaper than Ireland, whereas France is dearer than Spain.

I paid 6.00 per pint in Perpignan, 2.80 for a glass of wine. Main course of rib steak was 14.00. Coffee in restaurants was dear, I think 3.00. But a 2* city centre hotel room was just €36.

LFCFan

Originally posted by Protocol
Pharma products, e.g. lip balm

Please tell me your kidding? Ireland is an absolute joke when it comes to pharmacy products thanks to the cosy cartel they operate.

Protocol

I'll admit that I don't visit pharmacies much, and agree with you about the cartel behaviour.

However, I did pay 4.50-5.00 for a tube of Neutreogena lip balm in Perpignan. Would I pay more here?