Who would win

bizmark

In a full all out war Federasion vrs Klingon (in the late 24th centure around the time of the E-E) who would win ?

Remember its a all out war no holding back by either side all ships troops etc are ready for the fight But NO allies or old enemys get involed

Woden

hmm before the war, the federation don't know now though but i'd still favour the federation

User45701

The klingons are fanitical warriors who will keep fighting. also with a chalancer who is as experienced a leader as general martock i would see the klingons winning. But it would be very close.

Then with the klingons winning the roms would stike and rule the alpha/beta queadrents.
Then the breen would take them down
Then the dominion would take the breen down
Then there would be a huge anti dominion rebellion

Then the ferringi.....

azezil

Klingon ships have a clear advantage, they're slender, built for battle, federation ships are big and wide, very easy to hit!

And klingon's are warriors, they will fight to the last man. They would win.

Woden

their tech isn't as good though and the klingons themselves feared a war against the federation

magick

Fed, easily because.............
one their medical dept is far more advanced, klingon medics are poor, the Fed could use bio weapons if it got desprate, so they would win.

2 The Fed is built on mutal cooperation of worlds, where as the klingon empire has to deal with rebels , the Klingons relay too much on brute force, besides their are plenty of races who would prefer to see the klingon empire get mauled from the federation as their "diplomatic" skills are somewhat limited.

3 Politically their weaker,like we saw in the Dominion War ,if they disagree with each other they tend to kill each other not the best way to run a government ,or a war for that matter.

Like in ww2 , the lone Klingon would be very brave and a good warror , but their system of war is not refined,plus the culture is also showing signs of decay.

bizmark

MAN! the fed would win in a month

Think about it Vorchas (their most used ship) was built/designed before the nebula class so it was aimed to take on Excels and Ambassadors not Akiras nebulas galaxys defaints and sovys.Bop are rubbish defaints own them no problum ...They only have 4-5 negvars a galaxy or sovy could easly take them.....Their ships are rubbish

Then of course you have the Klingon "warrior" their a bunch of retards out for honnor and pride.......the japs lost BAD because of such a mind set....As the old saying goes "the objective isnt to die for your country but to make the other basturd die for his"

Their leaders are terrible just like their warriors out for persoanl honnor and pride....OH LOOK! its a federasion starbase **** its only 5 miles long and 3 miles wide with an ungodly amonth of weapions lets attack IT! :rolleyes: 100 + ships later and mister starbase would be still standing

Also their empire is small compeared to the federasion and its bleaved them and the rommies and in area of space with lower planet densty than the feds (some of their empires seem to be in the gap's between arms of the galaxy)

All in all mister Klingons would have their heads kicked in by the federasion pritty fast say with in a year

Woden

the klingons aren't that stupid though, there is reason why they haven't been conquered and died out they are good warriors and what not

User45701

The Vorch`a class attack ship is better than you make it out to be.

The klingon cloak is a advantage.
And as i said with such a experienced leader diricting all klingon fleet movements the klingons have the advantage there
The Feds have several different admirals who all control fleets in several different sectors - a weekness.

Actually i just re-considerd. The Federation would win no problem. Section 31 would probbley design a bio weapon to wipe out the entire klingon species

Woden

klingons could design bio weapons as well though least they may have there sense of honour not to use it though?

i wonder how many neghvar class star ships are in the klingon fleet?

bizmark

only a few they only had 1 dureing Ds9

klingons could design bio weapons as well though least they may have there sense of honour not to use it though?

Victory is the greatist honnor!

User45701

They probbley have more than a few but it does raise the question of klingon ship building capabalty. How fast can they pump out neg`var ships? about a year or so for 1?

bizmark

dont think so a akira would take over a year to build and the negvar is much bigger ..maybe 2 years or so

User45701

akira would take a year?

I wonder how long a promethus would take.
So a sovy must be at least 2 years then to build
A warbird would probbley be a year and a half

We have no clue how long a cube takes to build do we?
I read in a book by william shatner that the borg make about 1000 small cubes
(like the borg scout ship) and then kinda shot them all together to make a cube

bizmark

well over a year the akira is over 450 meters long big ship
Sovy has a LOT of advanced maybe hard to build technology such as ablative armour must take at lest 2 years to build
Prommy is another big ship not such how long it is maybe 360+ meters with 3 warp cores 14+ type 12 phaser arrazys etc etc you be supprised how long they might take to build and test maybe as long as a sovy or somewhat longer than a akira

A warbird is HUGE it would take way longer than 1.5 years to build easly as long as the galaxy class

and i have no idea about how long a cube would take as i never read any star trek novels

User45701

The warbird is only so big because of the huge gap in the cent
er.
I wouldent say it would take that long. It wouldent have the same amount of space inside the ship as a galaxy would have.

bizmark

ITs still alot of ship even with the big stupid gaps

leonotron

Originally posted by User45701


We have no clue how long a cube takes to build do we?
I read in a book by william shatner that the borg make about 1000 small cubes
(like the borg scout ship) and then kinda shot them all together to make a cube

What the hell does Will Shatner know about the borg? NOTHING.

So why was Uhura brown? Cause William Shat-on-her.
HA HA HA, I love that one. Also, why are there no Puerto Ricans on Star Trek? Cause they don't go to work in the future either.
I kill me. ..

bizmark

ok then......

LastIrishMonkey

i know the kligons will fight to the death but id stay id put my cash on the federation! :rolleyes:

azezil

eh but in an alternative time line when the fed n klingons were at war for many years, the fed were loosing, infact picard said they only expected to last another 6 months. :P

User45701

That is one of my faverate 1 part episodes. And yes thats a good point. The feds even upgraded the weapons and style of the galaxy class ships and they where still loseing the war.

bizmark

Yes but that was a time when the Feds where Pc loveing hippy greenpeace peace loveing freaks........Lately they gotten FAR FAR more powerful and much more up for a fight

Klingons
bop = crap
Vorcha = ease to take out with a akira or nebby
Negvar = take them out with a sovy or galaxy

Im telling ye kids the klingons wouldnt win

azezil

Originally posted by bizmark
Yes but that was a time when the Feds where Pc loveing hippy greenpeace peace loveing freaksB]

eh NO! was in TNG, the Enterprise C came into the future as a result the kitomer accord was never signed and the Fed n Klingons had been at war for years. So over the course of a long war which would have promoted the development of more powerful weapon systems the Fed LOST.

Boberto

Ya Klingons are more ruthless and their whole reason for being is war. Their technology is built to reflect ththis.
Federation design tends to be more aimed towards defense rather than offense and they're far too peaceful. They'd be wiped out.

Federation are weak... Let's face it and Klingons would fight til the end...
It ain't just about which ships are powerful, it's about the strength and resolve of the race themselves...

bizmark

your not talking about much time their

The E-c was destroyed around 10-16 years before the E-d was brough into service the war lasted what 4 years? so just say the war was ungoing for 10 -12 year's

that DOES NOT give you amazeing more powerful weapions or ships

im telliig you in the time i said the klingons wouldnt have a hope against the fed

[edit]

Weak ! did any of you lot watch ds9 or was that just me! the fed where more ruteless than any other race and DID NOT hold back calling the feds weak is plain wrong

Boberto

What about their cloaking technology?
Huge tactical advantage

bizmark

the fed has senors that lock on and attack any uncloaking ship in a war zone......See ds9 when the klingons where at war with the feds and see how much good it did them

azezil

oh look you have this "omg the fed r so l33t" thing going on, they're not! the Enterprise E exaugsted all its torps and phasers yet the Scimitar still kicked the shit out of it and 2 warbirds, yes I'm aware that's not Klingon technology but my point is, as it was from the start, Klingon ships are made for war, Fed ships are not

Boberto

Besides, we're all forgetting one thing here... star trek is centred around the federation so they always won and probably always will in the series cos the writers have to let em :P

Realistically speaking, the klingons would kick ass.

magick

yes true but we are talking about the normal tng/ds9/voy universe, besides lets just say if the Klingons won, in the short term it would be their biggest victory, but in the long term it would be a complete disaster for them
first the area they would have to cover, second the massive man power just to occupy that area, 3rd the rebellion, the fed is not just earth, but a whole list of planets so the klingons would basically be also getting a lot more headaches from different rebel groups from other planets, this of course the Romulans would love to see and would take advantage of.

the klingons would kick ass

but for how long? their far too many ways in which they could be defeated, their too strict in their ways of combat, the federation if it got desprate would try anything to save its own ass, like bio weapons to the klingon homeworld.

bizmark

yes true but we are talking about the normal tng/ds9/voy universe

why the hell didnt i use that argument that destroys their argument

User45701

In the alternite timeline when the C came into modern times the Enterrpise D was a Warship capable of transporting over 6000 troops! It didnt use replactors the crew just ate standerd rassions because all power was dirvirted to the defensive systems. The bridge was clearley designed for war it had a combat layout.

Also remember when the feds and klings where at war during DS9?
The federation ground troops got demolished by klingon ground troops.

The feds where losing in both wars

azezil

lol oh shaddup bizmark we're right you're wrong

Boberto

but for how long? their far too many ways in which they could be defeated, their too strict in their ways of combat, the federation if it got desprate would try anything to save its own ass, like bio weapons to the klingon homeworld.

Well so could the klingons... they have scientists too like.
I remember in Voyager's 'Endgame', Janeway went to the klingons looking for a temporal device to travel back in time.. Did they create it? If so, then they're capable of advanced weaponry too...

User45701

That was only 1 house that posesed that tech. They where like the house of duras they apeared to be more sneakey than most other klingons.

Update There is one very good thing that the feds have going for them. Section 31.

Boberto

Still all houses would unite to protect the empire

bizmark

The federation ground troops got demolished by klingon ground troops.

Bull**** The allies lost nearly ever battle in ww2 at the start but won in the end......plus that was only 1 battle for a unimportant small colony or something

And remember something when the klingons captured kirk the fed planed a invasion and the quto was "What happens if they fight back" "well to be honest sir we will clean their clocks" ......also the rommys are afaird of the federasion St 10 "No one will stand in our way not even the MIGHTY federasion" .....You do NOT call a empire Mighty unless your afaird of it's militry

The feds will win

User45701

The only reason why the feds said they would "clean there clocks" is because the main klingon energy moon had exploded and all life on kronos was due to die within about 40-60 years

True it wasent a relevent coleny that the battle was on but if it wasent relevent it would mean that the klingons wouldent comit there best troops and the feds wouldent comit there best either.

Ive always wonderd we have seen some "dishonerble" klingons like duras and Kor`ath and Tora`l.
I wonder is there a klingon security orginasation like Section31/Tal siar/Obsidian Order

bizmark

they would still have their fleet if the feds feel theirs notting to worry about the klingons arent as powerful as you lot think

magick

Well look at their leadership too, not the best, they went into a War with the Cards then the dominion got involved but they still didnt surrender, Gowarn said when we went back to ds9 "we will go back to the empre fortify it, and prepare for a battle to the death" Not sound thinking perhaps on the early stages of the War the Klingons would have the advantage what with the Militaray budget/training of troops, ut you also have t consider they need those troops to patrol the empire from it rebel problem,after all its an Empire built on conquest, not cooperation like the Federation, and im sure those conqured worlds would love to help the Feds in any war with the klingons.

User45701

Do we actually have a number on how many "minor races" are under klingon control?
Im sure allot of them rebelled just after Star Trek 6 when the empire was week after its moon exploding cripling there energy production

bizmark

i dont think anyone knows that as it was never stated on tv/film

Though the Smooth head tos klingons might be a different race

User45701

Ive always wonderd would the federation actually sign an alliance with a race that has conquerd orther worlds? it is unlikley it is possible that the klingons just dont have any conquerd worlds in modern times

Jaoibh

From years of star trek politics it seems that the federation and klingon alliance is help together by a mutual respect for honour,
also the federation might be able to forget the past of a war like species to avoid a huge loss of lives on there part!

User45701

Well some feds did conspire to halt the alliance before it was signed.
We talked of klingon ships the

BOP
Vorc`ha
Negv`ar

Why didnt we discuss the Kvo`rt class BOP? It is a powerfull ship fast heavley armoured.

magick

Ive always wonderd would the federation actually sign an alliance with a race that has conquerd orther worlds? it is unlikley it is possible that the klingons just dont have any conquerd worlds in modern times

Of course they would, the need Allies, look at the USA and the British Empire in ww2?
Or how about Arab Nations? Granted their not empires but their opressive enough.

Jaoibh

since star trek is based on Gene Rottenbery Idea's of how life would be in the 23rd century I would have to Guess that all it would take is the destruction of earth to distroy the entire federation. I meantioned this because he wrote andromeda and thats exactly what happened! earth was conquered and the federation (alliance all turned there backs on them!)

User45701

In thw wise words of Wayun

"The key to the federation is earth, if there is going to be a orginised resistence against us its birth place will be there. So our first step is to eradacate its population, Its the only way."

I would believe that if over 10 Billion people where killed (how many are there on earth??)

If the klingons just went at earth and eradacted its population with biogenic weapons other planets would mabe leave the federation, The vulcans might consider it logical to leave the federation and save there race.