Mechanics

Yavvy

How do you choose a mechanic ?

I know a wee bit about Motors but im still afraid of being conned. is there some quality asshurance thingy I can look for ?

I just want to get a full service and timing belt change

if anyone wants to make a reccomendaition Im in Dublin (south side)

Thanks

Al

tinofapples

I'll ask the same question for Galway , same as Alany I want a full service including timing belt but don't wanna be screwed.

John R

The only assurance I would put any stock in is a personal reccomendation from someone I know, as for industry standards or authorised dealerships IMO they are worth nothing. Some of the most incompetent work I have ever seen was done by main dealers on their own makes.

Gmodified

Some of the most incompetent work I have ever seen was done by main dealers on their own makes.

Agree, unless repair requires specialized equipment or you like to have dealer FSH, recommended mechanic will do better job

tinofapples

I personally wouldn't go near a main dealer for a service.

RicardoSmith

Have to say I haven't been impressed by some VW and Honda Main dealers at all. I'd say a local guy is best though you need to be recommended one as a lot of them are rip off merchants too!

Hellrazer

Have to stick up for main dealers here people.Ive worked for main dealers for 10 years now and although there are some out there whose work wouldnt be up to much I have to say that at least with a main dealer you do have a 6-12 month guarantee on the work carried out.
For example one of you is looking to get a timing belt done on whatever make,you go to a main dealer, get the work done and if that belt snaps within the specified mileage before the next one is due your car will be repaired and if that means a new head,block then its done for you.A local mechanic is not going to give you that sort of guarantee.

As for servicing---main dealers are more expensive but thats because if you have a full main dealer service history then its going to stand for you when you go to trade in.
Heres a few rules to follow when getting work done.

1.Use a main dealer for everything up until the warranty is up.
2.After that use a local mechanic for servicing and the likes.
3.Get timing belts done in main dealers---you have warranty up until the next DUE date of the belt regardless of the mileage on the car---its the belt thats guaranteed not the vehicle.
4.Use main dealers for diagnosis work---get them to diagnose the problem,tell you what parts are needed, if its too expensive act like you cant afford the work right now,buy the parts from their parts dept and get the local guy to fit it.


Also I dont agree that local mechanics do a better job.Some of them will fit everything and anything to try and sort a car out.Ive seen mechanics fit everything from sensors right up to ECUs to try and sort a problem when all it was was a loose connection on a cable somewhere.Guess who pays for all these parts---you.

Main dealers specialise in the vehicle they sell.Local guys are working on anything and everything and cant possibly know everything about every make and model.If they are a specialist local garage repairing only one or two makes then yep they`re fine to use.
Hope this helps.
Richie.

RicardoSmith

On my Honda CRX the main dealer did the timing belt, which made the car which had been running very sweetly, sound like a tractor. I took it back to them twice because I wasn't happy with the sound of it and they said it was fine. Still not happy I took it to another main dealer (Honda again). They said the timing belt was "hanging off" when I told them another main dealer had fitted it a few days earlier, they shut up and wouldn't help me with trying to get my money back from the first dealer. I had similar problems with two VW main dealers and also a Toyota main dealer with a variety of issues. A friend of mine has had problems with his Porsche main dealer, another with BMW. So it doesn't matter what you buy either.

Basically if you don't know much about cars most garages/mechanics will screw you over. In a recent survey in the UK 75% of mechanics/garages were overbilling customers.

I have found the rare mechanic who was brilliant, but they were the exception rather then the rule. To be honest its no different in the PC world. Most non techies get screwed too. Maybe its just human nature.

John R

A guarantee means nothing, it is just a marketing tool to get the marks in the door. Getting a guarantee is easy, getting compensated is a different matter entirely. In wangling a refund out of incompetent muppets quoting consumer law is far more effective then asking for a guarantee to be honoured.

The motor trade is littered with con artists who rely on the lack of knowledge of customers.

I am not for one moment suggesting that local mechanics in general are better than main dealers just that going to a main dealer is just as much a gamble as anyone else.

As for servicing---main dealers are more expensive but thats because if you have a full main dealer service history then its going to stand for you when you go to trade in.

Does that mean if I go to a main dealer and ask for a service without a stamp in the service book I can get a discount?

Main dealers charge more because enough people are willing to buy into the assertation that they are better because the manufacturers name is printed on a big sign over the door.
They also use the "genuine parts" line even though they are well aware that a great deal of parts are manufactured by third party companies in the first place who sell both to the manufacturer and seperately to wholesalers.

Hellrazer

Originally posted by John R
A guarantee means nothing, it is just a marketing tool to get the marks in the door. Getting a guarantee is easy, getting compensated is a different matter entirely. In wangling a refund out of incompetent muppets quoting consumer law is far more effective then asking for a guarantee to be honoured.

The motor trade is littered with con artists who rely on the lack of knowledge of customers.

I am not for one moment suggesting that local mechanics in general are better than main dealers just that going to a main dealer is just as much a gamble as anyone else.




Does that mean if I go to a main dealer and ask for a service without a stamp in the service book I can get a discount?

Main dealers charge more because enough people are willing to buy into the assertation that they are better because the manufacturers name is printed on a big sign over the door.
They also use the "genuine parts" line even though they are well aware that a great deal of parts are manufactured by third party companies in the first place who sell both to the manufacturer and seperately to wholesalers.

Ricardo---Jesus you did have a bad experience with a main dealer but they original dealer should have sorted that belt out for you.Fairly bad of them not to.

John R-Your statements are tarring alll dealers with the same brush there.
1.Usually a guarantee means a lot if your belt snaps and you`re talking about a bill for over €1000.00+.

2.And further to your beliefs about "incompetant muppets"---thats a fairly sweeping statement.Not all mechanics are rip-off merchants.Ive seen local garages close down under liqudation laws rather than fix someones car they made an arse of.

3.If you got your car serviced where I am yep Id give discount if people ask for it.A 10% discount means you get the job and 90% of a jobs value is better than 0%.

4.As for the main dealer issue---most main dealers mechanics know more about the cars they sell than any local mechanic.Thats why they`re main dealers---they get all the info direct from the manufacturer.

5.I agree whole heartedly with the parts issue.But there are still parts which cannot be bought from a 3rd party and you need to got to a main dealer to get them.
Richie

RicardoSmith

Thats hasn't been my experience of main dealers. Like John R I have to agree that going to a main dealer, is as much of a lottery as going to a smaller garage. Except that it cost about 3 times as much in the first place so 10% is a drop in the ocean.

BrianD3

Main dealers charge more because enough people are willing to buy into the assertation that they are better because the manufacturers name is printed on a big sign over the door.

When the manufacturer's sign is over the door, it's in the manufacturer's interest that the garage maintains a certain standard. In effect, the dealer is answerable to the manufacturer. Any skulduggery and the dealer could lose his franchise. I know of a garage that this happened to.

In my experience, the vast majority of main dealers out there are competent and professional. They'd want to be, given the prices they charge

I also agree with Hellrazer - main dealers just have more knowledge about their make of car because that is what they specialise in and will always have the proper manuals and any special tools needed to carry out work. Also they're much more likely to have parts in stock than a non-francished garage. Anytime I got work done in a non-franchised place there has always been hassle with ordering parts, waiting for them to arrive, the wrong parts coming in and having to be returned etc. Pain in the arse. Far less of this messing with a main dealer.

I also find more transparency with main dealers. Eg in Liffey Valley renault they have prices for major/minor services and other work (eg changing brake pads) up on the wall clearly visible for all to see, so as soon as you walk in you know how much it'll cost. I have never seen a non-franchsied outlet with any prices up on the wall.

BrianD3

John R

Originally posted by Hellrazer
Ricardo---Jesus you did have a bad experience with a main dealer but they original dealer should have sorted that belt out for you.Fairly bad of them not to.

John R-Your statements are tarring alll dealers with the same brush there.
1.Usually a guarantee means a lot if your belt snaps and you`re talking about a bill for over €1000.00+.

2.And further to your beliefs about "incompetant muppets"---thats a fairly sweeping statement.Not all mechanics are rip-off merchants.Ive seen local garages close down under liqudation laws rather than fix someones car they made an arse of.

3.If you got your car serviced where I am yep Id give discount if people ask for it.A 10% discount means you get the job and 90% of a jobs value is better than 0%.

4.As for the main dealer issue---most main dealers mechanics know more about the cars they sell than any local mechanic.Thats why they`re main dealers---they get all the info direct from the manufacturer.

5.I agree whole heartedly with the parts issue.But there are still parts which cannot be bought from a 3rd party and you need to got to a main dealer to get them.
Richie

1. I am not tarring alt dealers with the same brush, quite the opposite. I know there are some very good ones around there are also some really bad ones and presumably everything inbetween. My point is that being a main dealer is not an assurance of quality. The same goes for guarantees, anyone can give one but some will do just about anything not to honour them.

2. I was not saying all mechanics are incompetent muppets just that if you end up dealing with one you are far better off armed with consumer law (and lawyer) then with a guarantee. In my experience the sort of people who will happily do a shoddy job are also the sort who will promise any guarantee to get your money safe in the knowledge they will do whatever it takes not to give it back under any circunstance.

3. Not good enough, I demand 15%:D

4. Logically yes that would be true however it does not always translate into superior work. My last dealing with a main dealer is a perfect example, a friend of mine bought a '93 Golf and it developed a serious engine problem. After the car warmed up it would intermittently lose power making it almost impossible to drive. Eventually after 2 backstreet garages failed to fix the problem he brought it to a large VW dealer who had it for 5 days without fixing it. They did change various parts which did not help one bit but felt perfectly justified in charging over €150 for the parts (plugs, leads, timing belt and a few other similar things) and over €300 for labour even though they had not fixed the original problem. When he asked for the original parts be put back they said they had thrown them out and when he said he wouldn't pay for the labour as they had not fixed the car they threatened legal action.
Eventually I convinced him to go to my regular mechanic who took less than a day to work out that the ecu had been fried by a faulty exhaust sensor, within a few days he had sourced and installed a second hand ecu and sensor charging less including labour than the list price for a new replacement part from a dealer.

RicardoSmith

Have to say I've had experience of both a VW, Nissan and Honda dealers putting extra parts on cars and then expecting you just pay the cost even though in most cases it wasn't related to the problem they were being asked to fit.

A while back I dropped a nissan micra in for a minor service, primarily to get the log book brought back up to date since the previous owner hadn't done it even though they had the car serviced at the main dealer from new. Also I wanted to get a seat belt fixed whch they should have fixed under warranty but never did. Note the main dealer hadn't updated the log book either. It was left in for a standard service about €140 which is a rip off but it was going to be the one off visit to the dealer. When I returned to pick up the car they said they changed the front pads and disks, and the both the rear cylinders and pads/lining since there was a servious leak from both the rear cylinders and the brakes were very bad. Now I know bad brakes and this car didn't have them. Also the car was only 3 years old was serviced regularly and I couldn't believe that the brakes could be that bad. Anyway I refused to pay for the work which they wanted to charge over €500 for. I told them I simply didn't have the cash and the work was unauthorised anyway. Suspiciously they mangaged to refit all the original parts in 30 mins, (yeah right) and I took it to my local mechanic. His opinion was that all the brakes were fine other then one of the rear cylinders was leaking slightly. He changed that mainly because the car was going to the NCT shortly. Which is passed with flying colours.

Another car was taken to a VW dealer to cure a noise coming from the steering, but they changed the rack and wanted to charge 500 quid. But we refused as it didn't fix the problem and we made them but the old one back. Eventually it was some minor bushing that was causing the problem which cost less then 50 quid to fit and fix.

Had a a simlar problem with a Honda but I can't remember what it was. One problem I had was that one of the locks got damaged in a theft attempt, and I sourced a replacement but they wouldn't fit that. They would only fit a full lock set including and ignition barrel etc for 250+labour.

In most of these dealers when asking to talk to the mechanic to ask about the car, most dealers seem to have juniors doing some parts of the car, and other mechanics working on other parts of the car. So there isn't one person who even knows what been done on your car.

These kind of experiences have been pretty common for me across about 4 VW dealers, 3 Honda dealers and 2 Nissan Dealers. Friends have had similar experiences. To be honest I wouldn't trust most dealers with my bicycle. The only people I know who go to dealers are those people who know nothing about cars and who don't want to know. But are secure in the knowledge that if theres a major problem with their car they can sue the garage. Personally I'd prefer to KNOW the car is right and not that I can sue someone if it isn't. Assuming I'll be alive to sue them. Most of my friends go to specialist or non dealers mechanics that the've been recommended through word of mouth.

Gmodified

Main dealers do suck.

Nissan in Clonee refused to look after 94 Nissan Micra (euro version) Nice lady on the phone clearly stated that garage takes cars not older then 96 ????
Body shop in Richmond Road takes only cars 98 on

WTF???


DG Opel did nothing when timing belt snapped in my friends Vectra, way before actual replacement.
Car was always serviced in this garage including timing belt change which snapped after 10K. Warranty my ar$e

Honda dealers are one of the best, when comes to charging for parts
I have access to Honda’s parts database and always check the prices before buying.


I think only Ford was actually OK when came to servicing parts and customer service.

Hellrazer

Jesus Ricardo--You really have been shafted in the past.No wonder you`re so bitter about main dealers.

I can guarantee you 100% that nothing like that ever happens or has happened in any dealer Ive worked for.

Of all the problems you listed there the only one I can understand is the lockset.Most new cars nowadays have the immobiliser built in to the key so when a break in happens the door barrel is usually the first one damaged.In a main dealer the solution is to fit a completely new lockset.There are 2 reasons why a new one is fitted.
1.It keeps the one key for every lock and 2.First thing salesmen look at when you go to trade a car in is the keys.If they see a separate key for ignition,door whatever they assume the car has been broken into and possibly been repaired bodywork wise.
A lot can be told about a cars history from looking at a key.If its badly worn and the mileometer shows fairly low mileage with badly worn keys it can be a sign of tampering with the clocks.

I do feel sorry that you`ve been so badly fu<ked around.Id be as pi$$ed off as you are with dealers if the same happened to me.
Richie

RicardoSmith

This was a 91 Honda CRX, no immobiliser. They were just being *ricks. One of the reasons I got rid of the car was that I couldn't buy a ignition lock housing seperate from a complete lock set. I couldn't get one 2nd hand either. I'll never buy another honda either.

Ford have been a lot more reasonable for parts.

Hellrazer all my friends have similar stories. Luckily I'm not completely clueless about cars but you imagine how many people they catch in a big way.

BrianD3

Bah! People will always moan about having to spend money on their cars. Most people are tight and it gets right up their noses when they see how much main dealers charge for parts and labour.

one of the rear cylinders was leaking slightly

A leaking wheel cylinder is a major issue, no matter how slight the leak may seem or how good the brakes feel. You could suffer a major brake failure at any time if the fluid loss becomes severe. Also, brake systems are designed to be sealed. If fluid is leaking out, then air is getting in and it's a very bad idea to have air in your braking system.

Garages can't win. Let's say someone leaves in a car for an oil change, plugs and nothing else. If the garage fails to spot a slight leak in a rear wheel cylinder and 2 weeks later the car has a major brake failure, then the car owner will complain that the garage didn't check the brakes at the previous service. Yet when garages do spot things like this and carry out work that they haven't been asked to do, they're the worst in the world and are accused of ripping people off and fitting unnecessary parts.

Also, people assume that they know what is and isn't wrong with their car yet how many people have enough mechanical knowledge to know for certain? And how many have access to equipment such as lifts that garages do. A car may seem to be in perfect condition outwardly - but once up on a lift many problems can become apparent.

Fair enough, garages should ask for authorisation to carry out any extra work that wasn't asked for when the car was left in for a service. But in my experience they have always asked for this authorisation.

Case in point: I left my car into a main dealer for a new exhaust, new brake hoses all round (I had noticed some fraying in one of them) and other bits and pieces. I got a quote for the work before handing over the car. 2 hours later they rang me to tell me that in their opinion only the front brake hoses needed replacing, that the rear brake pipes were fine. They had also spotted a split rubber bush in the front suspension. So they were ringing me for permission to replace the bush and leave the rear brake pipes alone. I gave permission. I knew there was a problem with the front suspension as I had been hearing a knocking sound for a while. Sounded very like a knackered shock absorber. But I didn't ask the main dealer to check/replace the shocks as I planned to get new shocks in Kwit Fit because I knew they would be cheaper than getting shocks in a main dealer.

Anyhow, the price came to less than I was originally quoted. I saved about 20 quid on the brakes and the suspension bush only cost a fiver extra. And I didn't need to get the shocks replaced so saved myself another 130 quid.

I sourced a replacement but they wouldn't fit that

Main dealers will only fit genuine parts that they supply. You can't just turn up with spurious or secondhand parts and except a main dealer to fit them. Firstly, they would be doing themselves out of money as there is a profit margin on the parts and profit is the name of the game after all! Secondly the garage can't guarantee that the parts you supply are of the right quality and fit for their purpose. Thirdly, they would be in trouble with the manufacturer if they were found fitting non-genuine parts.

Nissan in Clonee refused to look after 94 Nissan Micra (euro version) Nice lady on the phone clearly stated that garage takes cars not older then 96

If they don't want your custom, then take it elsewhere :rolleyes: It's funny, in this thread main dealers are being portrayed as cowboys who try to rip people off at every opportunity - yet they're also being slated because they're turning down business. Surely if they were the rip-off merchants that they're being portrayed as, it would be very easy for them to take in a 94 micra, find loads of things wrong with it (blaming the faults on the car's age) and make a nice healthy profit for themselves.

BrianD3

Hellrazer

A lot of main dealers do have a policy of not accepting older cars for work.We dont accept any car over 7 years old unless it has a full history with ourselves.

Its mainly for the reason that as Brian says you could find all manner of problems with something like that and end up quoting the work to the customer who then decides that they dont want all the work carried out.The customer thinks that maybe it will be alright if they only get one brake pipe/wheel cylinder/suspension component fitted when we`ve advised them that they need both done.And at the end of the day its the garages fault if we let the car go out with half the work done and the cars brakes/whetever fail and the customer is injured or worse.

We`ve actually started to get customers to sign a disclaimer saying that they didnt want the brake pads/whetever fitted due to lack of finances or some other reason.It covers the garage in case of the above component failure happens.

I mean what do customers want.
As Brian says a customer books a car in for an oil change only,we spot the pads down to the metal,quote for the job before hand and the customer thinks we`re ripping them off.

People dont realise that part of a service in a main dealer is a full check over of the car

---

from top to bottom.The ideal situation in a main dealer is for that car to come in for its oil change and leave the workshop in the same condition that it was in when it left the showroom.And as part of a service the mechanics check the car,report any faults to the service manager who then tells the customer that there is something that needs replacing or may need replacing before the next service and suddenly the customer thinks they`re being ripped off.

If only customers sat down and actually thought about the service they are getting.

You go to a local guy for an oil change and thats all he does---an oil change.Then your brakes fail and you may need major components replaced.At least in a main dealer you`d be told of the problem before it gets to this stage.

Another problem people dont realise is that a lot of what goes on in main dealers is preventative--You tell a customer that theres 1000 miles left on their pads and we`d advise to get them done now(while their car is in for a service and their next service is due in 10000 miles).Most people would usually forget about this until the brakes start squealing and then they may need discs aswell.Again we`re accused of ripping the customer off.If the customer decides to book the car in inbetween services to get the pads done then thats fine if they remember to do so...buts its actually been proven that most people forget and try to get through to the next service thinking that the pads will be ok(and that the garage is just trying to rip them off)whereas the pads will be metal to metal in 1000 miles.

Richie

RicardoSmith

In can understand the garage telling me one of cylinders was leaking and I need it replacing then fair enough. But not every pad, disk and cylinder. One new cylinder later and it passes the NCT test, a brake test more comprehensive than any dealer will do. I can't see how you can defend that. Also you're assuming that a local mechanic isn't as comprehensive as a dealer would be. While I'm sure some of them aren't, my experience of a good mechanic is that they are.

If dealers were consistantly acused of being fanatical about safety then fair enough. But thats not what is happening. I'm saying I get better service and I mean customer service from non dealers than the big garages. All the big garages are interested in is making money at the expense of customer service. That has been my experience.

As for using non standard parts. I can understand if they don't want to fit it. But not if you get OEM parts. Also you can buy the same OEM parts for a fraction of the cost the main dealers charge. Now I can understand if it was 20-30% more expensive, but quite often the parts are 200-300% more expensive. Since they shift more of these parts you'd think they'd be able to undercut all the smaller garages but no they'd rather fleece the customer. Example VW fuel pump 250 in the main dealer + vat and fitting, 104 for the OEM part and 20 to fit it. Honda back box 400, OEM part 160. The list is endless. There was a story a while back about part of the renault ecu that they were charging something like 600 for, until people discovered you could get the same part in maplins for about 20.

Don't tell me fitting an oem lock is going to compromise safety. Thats just silly. Or that it makes sense to replace 3 perfectly good locks, including the ignition barrel, and all the labour involved, when they could replace just one for a fraction of the labour and cost.

The whole not working on older cars makes me sick. Thats just forced obsolesence. The EU should make that illegal. Its just another way to make you spend more money on a new car even if you don't need it. I know its the way the industry works but that doesn't make it right. Its not right when Bill gates does it either.

Gmodified

We don't accept any car over 7 years old unless it has a full history with ourselves.

.... but will take you old car and sell you brand new one. I have seen some old cars which will be in better shape then some 4 years old cars. Anyway, I would never buy anything from people that could possibly refuse to look after my car after 7 years.I don't expect 50 year warranty but this sucks big time.


Thanks to God and all this people which contributed to my technical knowledge.

I can't forget about Fiat which allowed me to rebuild my first car every 3 months due to poor quality of craftsmanship.
This certainly busted my technical knowledge and expand my imagination, which helped me to answer the question:


What could possibly go wrong with the car?


My sympathy goes to all these people that have no choice but to leave the car in the hands of some cowboys.