Garda confidence survey, believable ?

gurramok

News story here says that certain sections of Irish society have varying levels of confidence in the Garda.

*snip*
Dubliners are almost evenly divided on the issue, while confidence in the force is lowest among younger people, urban dwellers and the less well-off C2DE social group.
In the 18-24 age group, 40 per cent have confidence in the fairness and impartiality of the Garda, 54 per cent do not and 5 per cent have no opinion.

Confidence in the force rises steadily among older age groups. Of those aged over 65, 74 per cent have confidence in the force, just 22 per cent do not, and 4 per cent have no opinion. In Dublin 48 per cent have confidence in the force, 46 per cent do not and 7 per cent have no opinion. The highest confidence in the Garda is to be found in Munster, where 68 per cent have confidence in the force, 27 per cent do not and 5 per cent have no opinion.

Farmers are the social group with the highest regard for the Garda: 71 per cent of farmers have confidence in the force, 22 per cent do not and 6 per cent have no opinion.
*snip*


Is the above a true reflection of opinion in Irish society of confidence in the force ?

I notice 'the younger you are, the less well off you are and more urbanised you are', the confidence level shrinks.

As my demographic and profile would fit into this pattern, the survey is certainly showing some reflection of opinion where i live.

AmenToThat

Originally posted by gurramok


Is the above a true reflection of opinion in Irish society of confidence in the force ?

I have no idea what Irish society in general thinks of the gardai but I do know that among my friends/family there is no confidence in the gardai to be fair and impartial.

Sparks

Given the recent history of crimes committed by Gardai, combined with the total lack of any effective internal policing within the Gardai, it's hardly a surprise that people don't trust them anymore. I know that I personally don't. The majority of them may well be hard-working sods who do a difficult job, and I can appreciate that - but the minority who abuse their position so seriously don't exactly wear distinguising marks on their uniform, so you have to mistrust all of them.

Villain

Originally posted by gurramok
Farmers are the social group with the highest regard for the Garda: 71 per cent of farmers have confidence in the force, 22 per cent do not and 6 per cent have no opinion.

Is that why they always leave large amounts of Whiskey into the stations at xmas;)

Wouldn't trust half of them as far as I would throw, including members of my family who are Guards!

chill

Originally posted by gurramok
Is the above a true reflection of opinion in Irish society of confidence in the force ?

I would say that it understates the confidence.

Most people I know and talk to have great confidence in the Garda, as I do. Most people who don't have either been caught speeding or some other infringement or are youths who resent being tackled for drunkenness or other appalling behaviour.
If people have respect for the Garda they will receive respect. The vast majority of garda are excellent decent people though naturally they are like any groups in society and have a few bad apples that slip through the net.
We are incredibly lucky to have probably the best police forces in Europe.

Lemming

Originally posted by chill
If people have respect for the Garda they will receive respect. The vast majority of garda are excellent decent people though naturally they are like any groups in society and have a few bad apples that slip through the net.

I can remember the exact moment my faith in the Gardai was shattered. Up until that moment I'd had a fairly high regard for them, even after my older sister was hit over the back of the head with a truncheon by one and the absolute fiasco which ensued in dealing with them.

I was waiting outside Peggs in Kildare St., Dublin - 17/18 at the time and just waiting for my then g/f and a couple of my friends to come out of the club after closing time. I'd gotten my coat and was outside already. Apparently the gardai were called 'cause a bag got stolen or some such. What I witnessed (and received also) was nothing short of pig-ignorant abuse. I was standing quietly (and I mean quietly) outside the railings overlooking the entrance to the club and got told to "F*ck off like a little knacker" before I got my head kicked in, as did just about every other person there (age average about 18/19) in an attempt to clear the club. No mentions of "please leave" or "go home". It was "f8ck off yis little f*cking scumbags" etc etc.

Now what was that about giving respect and getting it? :rolleyes:

After that most of my experiences have been mostly in a similar vein, with a few golden moments, but the negatives far outweighed the good. I have no record, I do not get involved in fights or otherwise cause trouble.

We are incredibly lucky to have probably the best police forces in Europe.

LOL omg that was funny .......

We have one of the best force for covering it's own corruption in Europe. I accept that it's a minority doing it, but the problem is that it's becoming so pervasive that it's all people ever encounter.

chill

Originally posted by Lemming
We have one of the best force for covering it's own corruption in Europe. I accept that it's a minority doing it, but the problem is that it's becoming so pervasive that it's all people ever encounter.

What evidence have you that the Irish police force is not less corrupt that almost every single force in the world ? A few highly hyped incidents in the news comics ?

In my experience the Garda treat the public with exceptional respect and those that are on the receiving end of a hiding deserve it.

Sparks

Originally posted by chill
In my experience the Garda treat the public with exceptional respect and those that are on the receiving end of a hiding deserve it.

Live in Outer Mongolia then, do we?

chill

Originally posted by Sparks
Live in Outer Mongolia then, do we?

One would think so going by the behavour of those thugs. I and many others were absolutely delighted the Garda beat the sh** out them that day. It was an organised premeditated riot.

Ajnag

We are incredibly lucky to have probably the best police forces in Europe.

---

And you know this from what? Have you got links, or is this based on a factual acessment after traviling around europe?

I know from experiance that the dutch police are the best I have encountered to date, Polite, respectful, informative, and on the whole very friendly.and no generalisations please before you start, the dutch are a hard working multi national multi racial crowd with a high percentage of puritan calvenists.It just so happens that they are also tolerant.

The cops here are savages for the most part, Ive only met the young few who give me any hope of a modern police, and it aint much at that.The guy getting beaten in that pic stepped in to stop the guard betting a young woman.

Did the guards salvage any dignity, did they feck, went and threatened a baton strike to protect the guilty.We need to address this seriously in this country.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Ajnag
no generalisations please before you start

[...]

The cops here are savages for the most part

Okie dokie so.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Sparks
Live in Outer Mongolia then, do we?

Something I've never figured out: of all the public demonstrations that routinely take place in this country, how come only the one that had its own pet camera crew along sustained an "unprovoked" attack from the police?

Zulu

Originally posted by oscarBravo
Something I've never figured out: of all the public demonstrations that routinely take place in this country, how come only the one that had its own pet camera crew along sustained an "unprovoked" attack from the police?

...never figured out!?!

Because the media were expecting trouble from the anarchists after the G8 riots. If the said people had arrived the Gaurds would have got away with it, but they didn't.

Lets not forget, the Gaurds weren't wearing their numbers in this instance - why not? - Because it was premeditated. A premeditated attack on the public. How does that sound? What happened? Surly heads rolled? - One guy, moved to desk duty pending further investigation. Who's investigating? It's a joke.

This should have been the watershed for an independent internal affairs type group, but to this day the Guards are answerable to nobody. It's sickening.

The Guards are a joke.

Figure it out!

bonkey

Originally posted by chill
It was an organised premeditated riot.

Thats why they policeman in the picture is in plain-clothes without a helmet....because he's dealing with an organised premeditated riot by scumbags out to cause trouble!!!!!

mycroft

One would think so going by the behavour of those thugs. I and many others were absolutely delighted the Garda beat the sh** out them that day. It was an organised premeditated riot.

Okay just remember.

1. No Gardaí injured

2. No property damage

3. No members of the public claiming injury, aside from people making assault claims againist Gardaí.

I'm a little unclear, where was the riot?

Something I've never figured out: of all the public demonstrations that routinely take place in this country, how come only the one that had its own pet camera crew along sustained an "unprovoked" attack from the police?

If you turn up at any protest theres usually several people with home video cameras of the type used to record those images.

Zulu

Originally posted by bonkey
Thats why they policeman in the picture is in plain-clothes without a helmet....because he's dealing with an organised premeditated riot by scumbags out to cause trouble!!!!!

Absoulte rubbish.
There was no roit.
Where are you talking about???

seamus

Originally posted by Zulu
Absoulte rubbish.
There was no roit.
Where are you talking about???

Obviously sarcasm is lost on some people

Zulu

Originally posted by seamus
Obviously sarcasm is lost on some people

My Bad - taught you were a crazy, crazy person.

bonkey

Originally posted by Zulu
taught you were a crazy, crazy person.

Well, that much is possibly true....but that comment *was* meant in sarcasm/jest

jc

chill

Originally posted by Ajnag
We are incredibly lucky to have probably the best police forces in Europe.

---

And you know this from what? Have you got links, or is this based on a factual acessment after traviling around europe?

As I Said - that's my experience and opinion. I've been involved with young people for many years through schools and local groups.
Where are the links and evidence for the wild claims that the Garda are corrupt ? Other than a few small incidents... and completely out of context, unsubstantiated blurred images.. ?

I know from experiance that the dutch police are the best I have encountered to date, Polite, respectful, informative, and on the whole very friendly.and no generalisations please before you start, the dutch are a hard working multi national multi racial crowd with a high percentage of puritan calvenists.It just so happens that they are also tolerant.

I had two college student acquaintences locked up for 48 hours after a football macth there five or six years ago. They were abused and spat at by the police for doing absolutely nothing. Once of them was actually deaf and they weren't involved in anything that could have remotely justified their treatment.
So much for the Dutch.

The cops here are savages for the most part, Ive only met the young few who give me any hope of a modern police, and it aint much at that.The guy getting beaten in that pic stepped in to stop the guard betting a young woman.

I believe they are far better than in any other countries. The vast majority of them are polite, respectful and professional. Those rioters were pre meditated and intent on causing trouble.

Lemming

Originally posted by chill
Where are the links and evidence for the wild claims that the Garda are corrupt ? Other than a few small incidents... and completely out of context, unsubstantiated blurred images.. ?

"A few small incidents"?? Incidents that have had SERIOUS implications for the integrity of the body itself. Serious corruption exposed in Donegal that has called umpteen cases (outside the scope of the actual investigation) by those involved to be cast in doubt, a whitewash investigation over the mayday "riots" in which not a single member questioned could recall who else was there with them on the day (which I find extrordinarily disturbing), fabricating charges to counter complaints against the gardai, beating up suspects in custody using blankets and telephone directories to mask bruising, etc.

Corruption feeds corruption chill. Turning a blind eye feeds it. Covering feeds corruption. The irish police force is shockingly corrupt to it's core. The large body of officers may not be involved in it, but they're turning a blind eye to it, and are - in their own terminology for prosecution - accomplissant to the incidents.

I have (very reputable) sources Chill, so I hear things that you would probably laugh at and say I was bullsh*tting they're that off-the-wall insane, but they're from the horse's mouth so .....

How about I mention a story about an engish stag-party in temple bar a few years ago?? I wonder what you'd say if I told you the end result?

Those rioters were pre meditated and intent on causing trouble.

That would be why the gardai weren't in riot gear nor had the street cordoned off?

mycroft

Can't help noticing you didn't make any reference to support your "premediatated riot" comments.

I think you've got selective memory going on, you'll ignore or twist the facts to suit you, the wrong doings, assaults, planted evidence, and corruption which doesn't fit in with your rose tinted view of the village copper on his bicycle.

chill

Originally posted by mycroft
Okay just remember.
1. No Gardaí injured
2. No property damage
3. No members of the public claiming injury, aside from people making assault claims againist Gardaí.

I'm a little unclear, where was the riot?

I would suggest that that is the proof of how successful and brilliantly the Garda carried out their duty that day. Their job is to protect society against these kinds of anarchists and it seems to me and many other Irish people that they did their job well that day. It's no coincidence that the only major riot for years happened when these thugs made their appearance.

Lemming

Originally posted by chill
I would suggest that that is the proof of how successful and brilliantly the Garda carried out their duty that day. Their job is to protect society against these kinds of anarchists and it seems to me and many other Irish people that they did their job well that day. It's no coincidence that the only major riot for years happened when these thugs made their appearance.

My initial reaction was:


But on reflection, this HAS to be the following:

Sparks

Yeah. Chill, I know most trolls believe that either
1) It's great fun to troll; or
2) Trolling stimulates conversation.

But in reality, it's just annoying.

Kappar

Where are the links and evidence for the wild claims that the Garda are corrupt ?

Well if you read this document you will see evidence that resulted in an independent committee stating that "persons held in certain police establishments in Ireland ran a not inconsiderable risk of being physically ill-treated"

Also read the rest of the documents here

I would agree with the CPT's P.O.V. based on personal experience.

Zulu

Originally posted by chill
I would suggest that that is the proof of how successful and brilliantly the Garda carried out their duty that day. Their job is to protect society against these kinds of anarchists and it seems to me and many other Irish people that they did their job well that day. It's no coincidence that the only major riot for years happened when these thugs made their appearance.

:rolleyes:
sure thing chill. Are you a Guard perhaps? Or do you only read "the Guardai Times"?

bonkey

Originally posted by chill
I would suggest that that is the proof of how successful and brilliantly the Garda carried out their duty that day. Their job is to protect society against these kinds of anarchists and it seems to me and many other Irish people that they did their job well that day. It's no coincidence that the only major riot for years happened when these thugs made their appearance.

So let me understand what you're saying...

The only say where we had a major riot for years is the day where we didn't have any damage, hurt, or, indeed, riotous activity of any discernible nature due to the brilliance of our gardai.

So...you classify "situation proactively contained before a riot broke out" as "the only major riot in years".

I'm pretty sure the english language isn't meant to be abused that way.

jc

bdiddy

For a start i have confidence in the Gardai, my only comment on this thread is that the whole argument on wheter we have a capable or corrupt police force is been based on the actions of a handful of Gardai on one day whe not even in uniform.

Sparks

Originally posted by bdiddy
my only comment on this thread is that the whole argument on wheter we have a capable or corrupt police force is been based on the actions of a handful of Gardai on one day whe not even in uniform.

Actually, it hasn't been. I just posted those photos as one well-known example. There have been other well-known examples, and many more not-so-well-known ones.
On top of which, it's not just the Gardai who were out of uniform and doing the whole soccer thug impression thing, it's the ones who refused to identify them at a later date, and the way it exposed the internal mechanism the Gardai have (or don't have) for internal investigations.

On a side note Bonkey - how far can chill go down his road before he's acknowleged as a troll?

Lemming

Originally posted by bdiddy
For a start i have confidence in the Gardai, my only comment on this thread is that the whole argument on wheter we have a capable or corrupt police force is been based on the actions of a handful of Gardai on one day whe not even in uniform.

The gardai have long "been known" to be as corrupt as hell from a long way before the may-day "riots" bdiddy unfortunately

The thing in Donegal, tbh, is going to be the force's achilles heel. The investigation against a couple of detectives has blossomed into every single case they've ever touched and every other person who worked with them on those cases, etc, etc.

And then there's the joe-bloggs incidents of which there are plenty.

I've met and dealt with gardai who were brilliant, but for every one like that, i seem to encounter one who's a total gobsh*te and their partner who turns a blind eye