Case Fans

BrianD3

I'm new to this so go easy on me please

Thinking of building my first system. Will probably be a P4 system of 3.0 GHz in a big tower case. I'm not interested in overclocking and am not massively into games. Still, I want a good stable fast system which should cope with anything I throw at it.

My understanding of it is that as well as PSU and CPU fans, I'll need a couple of 80 mm case fans. One at the bottom front of the case to suck in cold air. One at the top rear to blow out hot air. Sound right?

A bit confused about the fans though. Firstly do they get their power from the MB or do you hook them up to the power supply conectors. I've looked at a couple of systems where they were connected to a 3 pin connector on the MB - but I've also heard of various different types of connectors and adapters. I was looking at some fans on komplettt which have a 5.25" power plug. What's the story with these?

Second one is probably an even stupider question - can fans be set to suck or blow? Is there some switch or jumper on the fan unit which determines what way it spins. If not, can fans be mounted "facing outwards" in the case or "facing inwards" depending on which way you want the air to go.

OK lads thanks for any help.

BrianD3

Big Chief

i have 2 antec 80mm case fans that i put on myself and i put both on the back, both sucking in air from outside and blowing it into the case. I imagine if you turned them backwards that they would do the exact opposite due to the way the fans are made.

My system runs at 21 degrees average and i have alot of stuff in there, cpu runs between 30-40 depending on the load put on it, i use the coolermaster aero7 copper heatsink with antec silver on the chip which i can fully recommend to anyone..

My understanding of it is that as well as PSU and CPU fans, I'll need a couple of 80 mm case fans. One at the bottom front of the case to suck in cold air. One at the top rear to blow out hot air. Sound right?

never thought about it like that, infact never put that much thought into it atall, i just wanted it to blow cool air into my system which it effectively does going by my system temperature.

If not, can fans be mounted "facing outwards" in the case or "facing inwards" depending on which way you want the air to go.

there is no jumper, but the designing of the fans means it can only go one way from what ive seen so the above quote is pretty accurate yeh..

I may however be proved wrong but ive fitted case fans on my last 2 pc's and thats my understanding of it. You get the odd bit of air coming from the opposite side but nothing compared to the air flow going the correct way (although my side case fan dosent let any air out the opposite direction atall, only in)

whosurpaddy

Originally posted by BrianD3
can fans be set to suck or blow?

they move air in one way. whether they suck or blow depends on which way u have them facing.

unkel

Those questions are far from stupid BrianD3. I was lucky enough to start messing with PC's when the only fan in the system was inside the PSU and there were big warning stickers on it never to open it so I got used to the fans gradually

OK just a quick overview about fans likely to be in your new system:

1. The one (or more) in your PSU - don't open it

2. You might have a small one on your motherboard. This is called the NorthBridge fan and it cools the hottest part of the motherboard with the core chipset. No need for a cable as this is powered from inside the motherboard

3. You will need a HSF (Heatsink + Fan). This cools the cpu. With it switched off and your PC switched on, your CPU will die (fry) in a few seconds. This usually powers from the motherboard with a small 3 pin connection. It's usually marked on the motherboard with "cpu fan" or something like that

4. Your graphics card would probably have a fan as well. No need to worry about a cable cause it's powered from the motherboard through the agp or pci slot it is stuck into. (Exception: very expensive modern cards require additional power, but you won't buy this as you are not much into gaming)

5. Case fans. These are usually powered directly from your PSU. They might have the same powerconnector as goes into your hard drive or cd rom or might have a smaller more square connector. Indeed if it is an intake or exhaust fan just depends which way it is connected to the case. They would usually fit both ways. It is a bit off topic to discuss here which fans should be intake and which exhaust. It largely depends on your case and what bits in your pc need cooling most

These fans come in a variety of sizes these days. Most common is 80mm, but 92mm and 120mm are getting more common now

Are you sure you want a big tower? If so or if not, you might be best of with a case from Thermaltake. These are highly regarded cases. All the fans come with it and are already installed in the correct way.

In more and more cases (like above) the speed of the fans can be regulated so you can decide what's best for your system. Generally speaking: fans at full speed means noisy but cool operation (good for overclocking etc). Fans at low speed means quiet operation

Hope that helps m8

BrianD3

Thanks to unkel and the other lads, things are a lot clearer now

I was lucky enough to start messing with PC's when the only fan in the system was inside the PSU and there were big warning stickers on it never to open it so I got used to the fans gradually

Funny you mention that. Up to now I have been messing with quite old hardware. 286's, 386's, a pentium 120 and a pentium 2 350. Not a case fan or a CPU fan to be found in any of them So it's a big jump for me to go from this to building my own P4 3 GHz system.

You will need a HSF (Heatsink + Fan).

Yep, and I'll be getting a boxed/retail processor rather than an OEM one as I understand that the boxed ones comes with a HSF already fitted which lessens the chance of me frying something through incorrect installation or through using a HSF which is unsuitable for the processor.

Are you sure you want a big tower? If so or if not, you might be best of with a case from Thermaltake. These are highly regarded cases. All the fans come with it and are already installed in the correct way.

This may sound strange but I don't want thinsg to be "too easy" I like to tinker and like the sound of messin with multiple case fans and experimenting with where to install them to get the best airflow. Also like the look of a big rectangular tower case.

Anyhoo, thanks a lot for the tips m8

BrianD3

unkel

Originally posted by BrianD3
This may sound strange but I don't want thinsg to be "too easy" I like to tinker and like the sound of messin with multiple case fans and experimenting with where to install them to get the best airflow. Also like the look of a big rectangular tower case.

Happy tinkering

Is the level of noise generated by the PC an issue? If so, you will need to do some research on which parts to get

bizmark

Do you really need a 3ghz p4 if your not gameing ?....you could save yourself a lot of money by getting a amd or a intell of a lower spec

BrianD3

Is the level of noise generated by the PC an issue? If so, you will need to do some research on which parts to get

Yep, it is an issue but not a very important one. I'm doing research on quiet case fans and quiet power supplies alright.

Do you really need a 3ghz p4 if your not gameing

The only games I play right now are old-skool MAME games, some of which require a very fast processor to run at full speed. Plus I may get into other games in the future. Still, I agree with you, 3 GHz is probably overkill for my needs. But I have around 1500-2000 quid spare cash lying around which I intend to blow on a PC so I might as well go for a fast CPU.

BrianD3

bizmark

might want to think about a AMD64 3200+ 279 euro on komplett

BrianD3

might want to think about a AMD64 3200+ 279 euro on komplett

I'll definitely consider it. I am nowhere near to deciding on a system spec yet.

Question: would an AOpen 350 watt PSU be sufficient to run a P4 3 GHz or Athlon64 3200 system with 1 HDD, two CD drives, midrange graphics and sound cards and a couple of case fans. This Aopen PSU is supposed to be a good one - apparently it's a rebranded Sparkle/Fortron one. So the quality is good, but is the wattage high enough for such a system?

Thanx

BrianD3

bizmark

well you have 2 grand so why short change yourself on power ? go for a 400+ watt Antec power supply

I have a 380 watt antec psu and it runs my 2600XP 512meg ram geforce 5900 system no problum and Antec are one of the best (if not the best) psu builders around

dazberry

My fastest/games machine is an Athlon XP2400. The problem is that the case is not designed for newer CPUs, so the PSU overhangs the CPU. Tried a number of things, but in the end the only thing that made any real difference bring the temps back to normal was a Zalman bracket (the one that sits over the PCI cards - same as the one you get with the flower cooler), and a Zalman fan on low speed. I inverted the fan so it blows air in in the general direction of the CPU (remember its covered by the PSU). That seemed to get the air shifting in that corner and really made the difference.

D.

unkel

Originally posted by BrianD3
Question: would an AOpen 350 watt PSU be sufficient to run a P4 3 GHz or Athlon64 3200 system with 1 HDD, two CD drives, midrange graphics and sound cards and a couple of case fans. This Aopen PSU is supposed to be a good one - apparently it's a rebranded Sparkle/Fortron one. So the quality is good, but is the wattage high enough for such a system?

The Fortrons actually output more power than specified, so you would have plenty for your system. Take into consideration though that the PSU will last for years and will probably do you for your next pc(s) as well

Seeing that pc's are becoming more power-hungry over time, you might want to spend a little more for a higher output PSU. If you intend to keep your pc for several years, then the PSU is fine

BigEejit

It should also be pointed out that a lower wattage psu will make more noise than a higher wattage one:
300 watt psu with 200watts of equipment hanging off it = 66%+ of full load and so the fans will be running quite fast to keep it cool (manufacturer of psu should have published how much noise a particular psu makes at a particular load)
450 watt psu with the same 200 watts of equipment is running at less than 45% .. dosent sound like a lot but I guarantee that it will be quieter (if the psu's come from the same manufacturer, using same fans etc)

BloodBath

Most cases come with case fans so you might want to have a look around for a good case. Most new cases have good cooling and if your not overclocking you don't need to go overboard.

Get yourself a fan controller so you can turn the fans to a low speed.

I've built a very high spec system for e2300. That includes everything from keyboard/mouse/m-mat monitor,case and all components so 2 grand will get you a great rig.



BloodBath

Gerry

BrianD3, you should take note that the boxed processor does not come with the heatsink/fan presinstalled, you have to put the cpu into the motherboard cpu socket first, then clip the heatsink to the cpu socket. Its very easy with the p4 retail heatsink, no tools are required.

Bosco

Hi there,

I built a big tower box for myself a couple of years ago, and I filled the machine with all manner of fan in varying sizes and specs. I powered up my insanely loud machine and was happy, as all who saw and heard it would gasp at it's impressive size and sound.

In time though I came to see my creation for what it was, a waste. The constant whine my box emitted filled in all the quiet bits in my music and games, and would drive me slowly mad when trying to do a little college work. One day I just disconnected half the fans and swapped the CPU heatsink and fan for much quieter models. The massively oversized case however is a mistake I'll be living with for a long while to come. The sheer unwieldy mass of the full tower would come to make every case-opening event a hassle, and would cause headaches whenever the time came to move the PC.

I urge you not to make the same mistakes I did. Decide how many drive bays you'll actually use, and buy a case to suit. If you insist on a bigger box, I've recently seen and can recommend Aopen's H600 series with the silent PSU (has 120mm fan and enlarged vent holes for silent airflow). Buy the quietest fans you can find and/or afford, particularly if you're using the loudish stock heatsink that comes with the 3Ghz P4. Buy fans with 3 pin connectors so that you can connect them to a mainboard that supports intelligent fan speed control/monitoring. Most high-end boards have at least two 3-pin case fan connectors in addition to the CPU fan connector. You'll be rewarded with a box that you won't want to hit with many hammers every time you want to watch a movie or do some quiet work.

po0k

Where are you sourcing the AOpen (rebadged Fortron) PSUs?
Any idea what model(s) they're based on?

BrianD3

Bosco: thanks for the tips. Good point about the big tower cases being unwieldy however I'm used to that as my current Gateway PC has a pretty big tower case (it would be about halfway between an Aopen 600 series mid tower case and an Aopen 700 series full tower case) As for noise, the big towers that I'm looking at have the same 350w quiet PSU that you mentioned. Plus when buying case fans I'm willing to spend a bit extra to get some quiet ones. So overall I'm expecting the system to be OK in terms of noise.

Syxpak: I got the info about the power supplies here:
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/aopenh700b/3.html
The Aopen cases can be got at elara, dabs, ocuk, xcase. The cases come with a power supply already installed. I don't know if the power supplies are available separately.

BrianD3

BigEejit

I wish elara would put up pics and specs of the items they are selling, an a link to the manufacturer as well ... tis a pain in the arse to see what they have, search for pics/reviews and then come back to buy it :rolleyes:

Bosco

I've seen the H700 as well, specifically the H700B. Nice big solid case but the door on the B model looks a bit tacky when open. It looks worse if your drives don't match the silver colour. The usual power LED on it is replaced with a plastic panel around the power button which cycles through 6 colours. Good silent 350W PSU and solid wide feet for floor standing. Very good if you want to use loads of hard disks but do you really need a dozen odd drive bays?

savemejebus

total newbie question but.... as i'm gonna be putting together something soon, i've noticed that most of the preinstalled case fans have power connectors that are the same as on the hdd etc, but also seem to have power out as well, does this mean that they are branching the power, sending some to the fan and the rest out through the other connector or what? Also some cases have connectors coming from the front panel that are supposed to power the fans, where would this power come from if not the psu? the mobo?

Any good links for setting up case fans, faqs would be appreciated

aidan_walsh

Originally posted by savemejebus
total newbie question but.... as i'm gonna be putting together something soon, i've noticed that most of the preinstalled case fans have power connectors that are the same as on the hdd etc, but also seem to have power out as well, does this mean that they are branching the power, sending some to the fan and the rest out through the other connector or what?

You motherboard will have one outlet for the case fan power, and as you correctly guessed, the power outlet is used to daisychain the fans to power each other... I'm not sure, but I think the power goes through the motor and then back out the outlet...

Big Chief

Originally posted by savemejebus
total newbie question but.... as i'm gonna be putting together something soon, i've noticed that most of the preinstalled case fans have power connectors that are the same as on the hdd etc, but also seem to have power out as well, does this mean that they are branching the power, sending some to the fan and the rest out through the other connector or what?

its basically a power Y splitter yes, it means you can run a full connection without losing out of one of the 4 pin hdd power connectors as they are sometimes limited in some psu's, there fore meaning you can use the 1 to power 2 things etc...

just make sure all the connections are grand though, ive killed a 80gig hdd and a floppy drive (smoke piled out the floppy drive..) because the black lead going into the 2nd 4 pin connector was slack and wasnt in right there fore losing the neutral lead.. (pure live electricity shooting through the hdd and floppy, as soon as i turned it on smoke started coming out the case )

luckily i noticed though before doing some serious damage to my computer, lost an 80 gig drive though, turned one of the black chipsets on the board of it into black ash

savemejebus

gonna watch out for that , don't want that to happen on my first build anyways.