DIN or A Clamp

donny

Was thinking of getting a 3L Pony + reg for a while but looks like I'll be doing the advanced nitrox course within a couple of months so will start using a twinset fairly soon. This has made up my mind to go ahead and get the pony and reg just so I won't have to rely on someone else's reg 40 metres down.

The reg I'm thinking of getting is the scubapro mk2 + r190. It wouldn't be my main reg but would have it for twinset/pony etc. I've used this reg before and it seems perfectly reliable without breaking the bank.

Would ye recommend going with an A clamp or DIN fitting on the pony and reg. My primary reg is an A clamp so I'm not sure which to go with. Would there be any benefit in getting the other as a DIN fitting? There might be the advantage of having one reg of each but this might just cause problems later on.

Also have any of ye any experience with Custom divers clamping system for a pony. The other option is to go with a pony bag which is obviously cheaper. But the quick release aspect of the clamps is swinging me towards that. ANy help is appreciated.

NordicDiver

I dont really get your point when you say:

Was thinking of getting a 3L Pony + reg for a while but looks like I'll be doing the advanced nitrox course within a couple of months so will start using a twinset fairly soon. This has made up my mind to go ahead and get the pony and reg just so I won't have to rely on someone else's reg 40 metres down.

Because you are doing an adv ean course you need a pony or ? ..

You will need a twinset to do a adv ean course.

Well anyway:



First DIN vs Y(j)oke.

There are two main reasons for using DIN fittings:
1. They are safer, the 'O' ring is trapped inside the fitting and it is very difficult for it to squeeze out.
2. It is neater and more streamlined, there is not a large screw knob sitting on top of your cylinder waiting to catch on bits of rope etc.

I would recomend you to change your primary reg to a DIN fitting, this is normaly easy to do. I dont now what kind of regulator you have but if its an really old one you might have to change a few bits inside for use up to 300 bar. But this is not a problem with new regs. Also this is a step to your technical rig.

Then what reg to get:
I can almost promise you one thing that you want to have the same manufactor on all your regs, then it is really easy if something breaks. Then you can just switch 2.stages and 1.stages around. If your regs are not the same manufactor then make sure that the hosefittings and internal pressure are the same so that you can change 2. stages without any adjustments.

There is nothing wrong with chosing Mk2 and the r190 reg. I have serviced both and the only thing i can put my finger one is that the 1.stage is not environmentally sealed so you will have more corrosion on some of the internal parts. The r190 i have noticed can freze up sometimes due to how the 2. stage are constructed.
For me the Mk2 could be used for my argon bottle. (not very positive).

A mutch better choice is the Apeks tx40 2.stage paired with a DST 1.stage. This will cost you 160 GBP here: www.divebooty.co.uk/equipment_details.asp?pid=511
You will get environmentally sealed 1st stage and heat exchanger system that virtually eliminates the possibility of 2nd stage freezing.
This reg are very popular among technical divers in Europa.

Now you have a reg. that you can use as your primary when you buy your twinset later. You are now even closer to your technical rig

PS: if you are going for pony you only need to buy a 1.stage since you change over your octopus to your pony.

Soo to this pony thing:

My view: When you need a pony you really want a twinset or in most cases a more aware buddy and more training in airsharing.

Ok. why is this my view, well all divers i have seen (including me when i though pony was smart) have rigged their pony so its almost impossible to reach the valve so they can open or close it during the dive. So if its forgotten closed (yes it happens) it is not worth anything.

1 pony and (15or12L) 232 bar tank, extra 1. stage and what you need for fixing your pony to your tank cost the same as a ditto 2x10 twinset. Pony with the tank have the same weight too.

With a 2x10 twinset you have real safety, actually so mutch safety that you can do shallow cave dives or do some nice penetration on wreck down to 30-40 meters.
With some education offcourse.

The choice is yours to make
:cool:

dublinbay

Maybe you should think about a 7 ltr instead of a 3 ltr pony if you are taking Adv Eanx course soon. As Jan has observed if you think you need a pony, you really need a twinset
DIN vs Yoke = DIN wins every time. Safer seal, traps 0-ring..
Jan all ok for April 23?
Jack.

Evil Phil

There's low key and then there's going off topic to discuss business. They are not the same thing. The 23rd of April may or may not be okay for Jan, it doesn't belong here and won't be discussed here. Use the private messaging system or pick up the phone ffs. Thats strike one (strike 3 you're outta here).

Anyway back to DINs and A Clamps ....

(Jan this is not directed at you)

Mick L

Yeah what the guys said all makes sense. IF you want a pony between now and doing your ADV Nitrox / getting twinset, I'd go with DublinBays advice and get a 7L stage. You have your independent air AND you get practice using a stage tank and should be pretty comfortable with it when you get to doing your tech courses.

As for A clamp vs DIN it's definitely DIN.

For your choice of reg, I've never used a scubapro so can't comment on it. For what its worth, I have an Apeks ATX100, and 2 Poseidon Cyklon 5000s (one with a jetstream second stage). Very happy with them.

Good luck
Mick

donny

Thanks all for feedback. I knew typing this that I was rambling a bit.

Originally posted by NordicDiver
Because you are doing an adv ean course you need a pony or ? ..

You will need a twinset to do a adv ean course.

Its not really relevant but I had planned to get a pony regardless of the nitrox course but had been undecided about getting a second reg. The fact that I'll be diving with a twinset (not the pony) convinced me to go for a new reg as well. I'll be borrowing the second tank for the twinset.

I would recomend you to change your primary reg to a DIN fitting, this is normaly easy to do. I dont now what kind of regulator you have but if its an really old one you might have to change a few bits inside for use up to 300 bar. But this is not a problem with new regs. Also this is a step to your technical rig.

Its easier to change from DIN to A clamp than the other way around. You can buy a DIN to Yoke adaptor but not the other way around although. This is my understanding at least. Feel free to correct me.

I can almost promise you one thing that you want to have the same manufactor on all your regs, then it is really easy if something breaks. Then you can just switch 2.stages and 1.stages around. If your regs are not the same manufactor then make sure that the hosefittings and internal pressure are the same so that you can change 2. stages without any adjustments.

I can see obvious advantages of this alright. How do I find out if my ATX40 second stage would be compatible with the MK2?

A mutch better choice is the Apeks tx40 2.stage paired with a DST 1.stage. This will cost you 160 GBP here: www.divebooty.co.uk/equipment_details.asp?pid=511
You will get environmentally sealed 1st stage and heat exchanger system that virtually eliminates the possibility of 2nd stage freezing.
This reg are very popular among technical divers in Europa.

I already have the ATX40 and think that Apeks make excellent regs. Ideally I would get another Apeks but am already spending enough money as it is.

PS: if you are going for pony you only need to buy a 1.stage since you change over your octopus to your pony.

Was thinking about this alright but if there isn't much cost difference I might be tempted to go for both first and second stage in case I don't always carry the pony for whatever reason.

My view: When you need a pony you really want a twinset or in most cases a more aware buddy and more training in airsharing.

For the diving I do a twinset really isn't practical however nice as it may sound. I'm getting it for redundancy for most of my diving but also as backup for the occasionaly deepish (40m) dives that I do. For the times I'll be using a twinset, I'd prefer to have my own reg that I can trust.

Ok. why is this my view, well all divers i have seen (including me when i though pony was smart) have rigged their pony so its almost impossible to reach the valve so they can open or close it during the dive. So if its forgotten closed (yes it happens) it is not worth anything.

I wouldn't plan to shut off my pony and as for leaving it switched off.... thats what the buddy check is for.


Thanks for your help with this. I'll take a look at Apeks a bit more closely and might consider just getting an apeks 1st stage. I dive with a Buddy Commando that has an auto air so having an octopus on my primary isn't as big an issue as it might be. Will let you know what I decide. It'll be next week before I order anyway I'd say.

NordicDiver

We could write page up an down about this and we would probably not agree about using a pony or not. I would just like you to think about this:

You have already 4 safety emergency systems for out for air:

1. Get air from your buddy (problem free).
2. Buddy breathing (don’t to easy, need clear head).
3. Swim up, also known as CESA from PADI (easy enough, have used it from 20m without getting stressed about it).
4. Positive buoyancy (drop your led)

When do you go empty on your main reg ? It does not happen that you breathe it empty? So what’s left – technical failure, which is extremely seldom on maintained equipment.
The penalty is normally very small because you already have 4 emergency systems available. I don’t think you be safer by adding one more system. But it probably feels good.

This is normal sportdiving we are talking about, not deeper/overhead diving.
If you want to do more of demanding dives, a twinset is the way to go.

Jan
Who still uses a single bootle for sportdives with no pony.

NordicDiver

Its right that its easier to change from din to clamp than the other way around so you should bring clamp adapter on holidays. It is easy enough on your apeks 1. stage to change to DIN.
As you can see on the picture 1. unscrew the clamp and screw in the DIN on pic 2.

This is not a guide in DIY unclamping.

Jan
Who dont like clamp(ers)

NordicDiver

There is no problem to switch your 2. stage apeks to a Scubapro 1.stage. Just make sure the intermediate pressure is the same (it should be around the same, slight variasjon could make the reg change the cracking resistens either +/-).

There are no easy way to adjust the intermediate pressure on the mk2 ( you have to open the 1. stage and remove or replace a washer in front or back of the spring).

On the Apex this adjustment is easily done by using a 6mm hex wrench without having to dismantle the 1.stage. It would be easier to adjust your apeks 1. stages to match the scubapro.

Another reason to buy the Apeks.

Since you have a very good apeks reg already, why mix up with a scubapro?

This intermediate gauge wil cost you around 30 eur and should be in all divers repair kit to check their reg for performance.

It attach to you suit or inflator hose.

Jan
Who checks his pressure every now and then

Edit: donny, you can get another nipple on the gauge that will fit on your spare air hose.

Peace

I'm voting DIN....

Do i win something? huh huh?????

Seriously, DIN seems to be a sturdier choice as outlined above. I have both a DIN reg and an A Clamp on my twinset and have only mixed them up once.....when you screw an A Calmp onto a DIN valve and then open the valve.........it makes a lot of noise, so don't do that.

I wanted to convert my oceanic first stage to DIN but couldn't get the part out of NDS....they were closing down or whatever.

Can anyone help me out here???
<Edit>I'm looking at you Jan!!! My personal DIY unclamper consultant guy.</edit>

donny

Just to follow up on this. I ended up going for a second Apeks 1st stage. I decided I'd be better with the same brand for servicing etc. I got an Apeks DST4 1st stage along with an SPG and will just connect my existing octopus onto this. It will now do me for my pony or twinsets when I go about using them.

And just so ye know... I went for DIN

NordicDiver

I can`t agree more....
Where did you buy and what price did you get ?

any diving in galway donny ?..send me a pm if you need a buddy.

donny

Bought it off aquaholics. Can't really beat next day delivery. I found them very helpful while deciding what I would finally get. I think I got them to quote me for the 1st stage on its own at £125 but I bought a pony kit + spg along with twinning bands as well as various other clips etc so got an overall reduction on it.

BTW NordicDiver my profile is a bit old. I now work in Dublin but go home every few weekends. I'm busy for the next few weekends but in a while would definitely be interested in going on a dive somewhere.

(trying out new 1st stage + pony tomorrow btw)

NordicDiver

OK donny
Safe diving tomorrow and let us now how it goes.

Jan
with no buddy