Western Rail Corridor

mackerski

MrJones wrote:

ppl of ballinsloe would have the option to drive to athenry and get the train to galway from there.

You don't need to lay any new track to make this a reality.

Dermot

MarkoP11

There already exists a morning rail service from Athlone, calling all stations to Galway arriving 8:20 am

The WRC costs do not include rolling stock which comes with a 2 million euro a coach price tag, and IE have none spare indeed IE don't have enough as it stands

The Galway Oranmore Athenry Gort Ennis Limerick section has potential as it serves 3 purposes, Galway commuters, Limerick commuters and links Galway to Limerick, its also the cheapest to do and the line from Ennis to Athenry is fairly straight and built to a much higher standard than the rest of the WRC. Not to mention it was the only section given a clear tumbs up from the McCann report

Iarnrod Eireann will drag the WRC out as long as possible they don't want to do it. They are on record as saying anything is profitable given a large enough subsidy a clear call to the DoT that this won't be cheap. What limited resources should continue to be focused on the real demand it would be an insult to people crushed in, in inhumane conditions to have empty unprofitable trains running around

corktina

MarkoP11 wrote:

There already exists a morning rail service from Athlone, calling all stations to Galway arriving 8:20 am

The WRC costs do not include rolling stock which comes with a 2 million euro a coach price tag, and IE have none spare indeed IE don't have enough as it stands

The Galway Oranmore Athenry Gort Ennis Limerick section has potential as it serves 3 purposes, Galway commuters, Limerick commuters and links Galway to Limerick, its also the cheapest to do and the line from Ennis to Athenry is fairly straight and built to a much higher standard than the rest of the WRC. Not to mention it was the only section given a clear tumbs up from the McCann report

Iarnrod Eireann will drag the WRC out as long as possible they don't want to do it. They are on record as saying anything is profitable given a large enough subsidy a clear call to the DoT that this won't be cheap. What limited resources should continue to be focused on the real demand it would be an insult to people crushed in, in inhumane conditions to have empty unprofitable trains running around

yep

3greenrizla's

i have to start off by saying that i do not have as much knowledge of the subect as others posting, but still.......... i have an opinion!

I for one have always wanted the WRC to be open, i would rather spend 2.5hours on the bus in dublin rather than on that rotten galway - ballina bus.
also
the WRC linked with Shannon airport (and maybe knock or galway???) would only be a good thing for tourism in the west.

& just a thought...

i know it would need government investment, but would the WRC be feesable(sp?) if ran by a private company?

DerekP11

3greenrizla's wrote:

& just a thought...

i know it would need government investment, but would the WRC be feesable(sp?) if ran by a private company?

No disrespect intended my friend and I appreciate your honesty about your Knowledge of this particular subject, but a private company wouldn't even look at the WRC in any shape or form. Private companies need to make money and generate profit. Irish Rail have already indicated that additional subsidies (and big ones) will be required for this "monument" in the west of Ireland. In fact very few lines in Ireland would be attractive to the private sector, but that said the private sector would by all accounts have a different way of doing things. However, Jesus Christ, Budda, Mohammed etc. would be unable to convince the private sector to invest in the WRC.

While I don't live in the west. I know this line backwards. Another message board is salivating at photos of the line clearance work between Claremorris and Collooney as if its the green light for reopening. Claims about Irish Rail "reclaiming" the alignment are being bandied about as if its a done deal. But let me tell you that just south of Collooney, houses are built alongside the alignment and there access driveways are actually tarmacadamed over the line. If Irish Rail intend "fencing off" this section, then Im very interested in seeing the repercussions. Furthermore, any future reopening would actually require "level crossings" on peoples driveways. Im not joking. This is what West on Track didn't share with anyone. This is what Irish Rail and Government know and its probably one in a long list of reasons why Claremorris - Collooney will never open as an operating railway. As for the rest of it, it should be so far down the list of priorities that it doesn't merit mentioning.

corktina

just want to add to that ...to serve shannon airport you would need somewhat more than 3 trains a day.......maybe 3 an hour in each direction...

murphaph

I'd actually much prefer to see the line reinstated with double track from Limerick to Athenry and a 3 an hour service run between Galway and Limerick being established than one foot of track north of there with the pathetic timetable envisaged by WoT.

Transport21 Fan

the pathetic timetable envisaged by WoT.

Speaking of which, there has been no clearance on the Claremorris to Coolooney section lately. There has been a bit of tidying up just north of Claremorris, but nothing else I have seen.

I could be wrong through, but from the parts I constantly pass nothing has happened since last Spring when Sligo CoCo tided up the station ruins at Tubbercurry and sprayed a bit of weedkiller for a visit by Bertie to open an extentsion to a local factory - this is what you see at the Kells site, but it's not new or has anything to do with a reopening.

Haven't seen anything else since then. The only work on the Burma Road is a large block of apartments is being built on the site of the railway yard at Tubbercurry to house the large numbers of Eastern Europeans moving into the area (which is a great thing to see - all towns west of the shannon badly need more population in them).

corktina

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Speaking of which, there has been no clearance on the Claremorris to Coolooney section lately. There has been a bit of tidying up just north of Claremorris, but nothing else I have seen.

I could be wrong through, but from the parts I constantly pass nothing has happened since last Spring when Sligo CoCo tided up the station ruins at Tubbercurry and sprayed a bit of weedkiller for a visit by Bertie to open an extentsion to a local factory - this is what you see at the Kells site, but it's not new or has anything to do with a reopening.

Haven't seen anything else since then. The only work on the Burma Road is a large block of apartments is being built on the site of the railway yard at Tubbercurry to house the large numbers of Eastern Europeans moving into the area (which is a great thing to see - all towns west of the shannon badly need more population in them).

actually there is quite major clearing taking place between charlestown and tobercurry and in other places....

3greenrizla's

DerekP11 wrote:

No disrespect intended my friend and I appreciate your honesty about your Knowledge of this particular subject, but a private company wouldn't even look at the WRC in any shape or form. Private companies need to make money and generate profit. Irish Rail have already indicated that additional subsidies (and big ones) will be required for this "monument" in the west of Ireland. In fact very few lines in Ireland would be attractive to the private sector, but that said the private sector would by all accounts have a different way of doing things. However, Jesus Christ, Budda, Mohammed etc. would be unable to convince the private sector to invest in the WRC.

TBH i would be supprised if Irish Rail said anything other than they would need very large additional subsidies, i know its comparing apples and oranges but CIE also require large subsidies to run the bus network, (i also know that they have to provide a service to every bog hole in the country) but even with these subsidies they still get under cut by company's opperating in the private sector.

again i must state that i have limited knowledge in this area, but i feel that a private company would look at options such as painting a train red and plasstering Vodafone (or any other company willing to pay) down the side.

MarkoP11

3greenrizla's wrote:

again i must state that i have limited knowledge in this area, but i feel that a private company would look at options such as painting a train red and plasstering Vodafone (or any other company willing to pay) down the side.

Been done already Guinness paid a fortune to have 4 DART coaches painted up for a few months, to be honest I don't think the sheep and cattle will be interested in mobile phones as they will see a lot more of the trains that humans. The only reason Guinness shelled out was because 20,000 people a day would see the advertisement

Its well known that subvention levels to Dublin Bus are amongst the lowest in Europe, Bus Eireann gets only about 25 million per year

The numbers to hand (strategic rail review) suggest that the full line would require a 8 figure sum to support it in the first year, thats to move maybe 1 million people. For comparision Dublin Rail Suburban gets 26 million and moves 26 million about 1 euro per journey, the average is €4.75 per journey across the network and that number is falling as demand increases. The full WRC would require a 15-20% increase in subvention to IE to run it the tax payer won't stick that.

Even if the strategic rail review has over estimated the costs by 100% its still a huge amount of cash

SRR page 162 wrote:

Galway - Cork

In effect a short Western Rail Corridor this scheme could provide the first stage of the full link to Sligo and beyond It could take advantage of a significant amount of existing infrastructure. It also serves the more densely populated part of the west, where the particular strengths of rail have a better chance of being exploited. It would help deliver the Shannon Rail Link. In summary , it has all the advantages of the full Western Rail Corridor but does not serve the lightly populated area to the north of Galway , which may be served by good road and bus connections , integrating with rail at Galway

Transport21 Fan

"actually there is quite major clearing taking place between charlestown and tobercurry and in other places...."

I spent sometime exploring the WRC from Claremorris north to Collooney today. There is absolutely no clearance taking place north of Charlestown. Nothing has been done on that section for almost a year now...BUT...and I could hardly believe my eyes...what is going on between Claremorris and Charlestown is unreal. Not only are they clearing the line, but it looks like some serious pre-engineering work is going on with the level of kit and engineers all around the site.

Something major indeed is happening and it is not just fences and property aquisition. It looks to me like they are getting ready for full WRC reopening to Charlestown. It is starting to look Like O'Cuiv might be getting his way and Chalestown being the termius for the WRC with a bus connection to Knock Airport from there.

The WRC cannot be really opened north of Tubbercurry as Sligo CoCo granted permission for houses to be built right next the rail line up until a few years ago and realistically they would have to purchase a lot of private property and demolish some houses.

Calling what I saw today "a bit of a tidy up" would be like saying that Duirmud Gavin does a bit of gardening. This was a major job, no doubt about it. I would swear it looks like nothing less than half of the Burma Road is on the cards for reopening within the next few years.

What is reminds me of is how Knock Airport came to be back in the early 80's. The Government at the time said "start making plans for an airstrip" and the locals in Mayo started building a runaway to land 747s...I am starting to think the same think might be happening with the WRC.

Meanwhile very little in terms of major work has been done on the Midleton line, rail to Navan from any direction is still a pipe dream and have they even started drilling the test holes yet for the Swords Metro?

If real action is anything to go by, then I would have to say that the WRC is the priority project in Transport21 and the northern and most unviable part of the WRC to boot!

NavanJunction1

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Calling what I saw today "a bit of a tidy up" would be like saying that Duirmud Gavin does a bit of gardening. This was a major job, no doubt about it.

Photos at http://www.westontrack.com/index.htm

Transport21 Fan

They have transferred the contractors from the completed Sligo line to the northern half of the WRC. Ultrasonic survey of the embankments for hidden caves in the ballast, bridge evaluation, drainage, level crossing replacement, CTC wiring and upgrades - it's all happening folks.

The is a rush to get a Mayo portion of the WRC basically operational for the next general election - getting the line safe enough for a PR/Photo Op train to run from Athenry to Claremorris (and possibly Charlestown) on the eve of the election.

I'll try to get some photos this weekend and post them of the machiney and high tech gear they are using. There is also something which looks like a railcar which does not carry passnengers on the track too. It's painted yellow, some kind of engineering or track survey train it looks like.

MrJones

Transport21 Fan wrote:

They have transferred the contractors from the completed Sligo line to the northern half of the WRC

Do you mean that they have been working on the sligo line or that they were just clearing away scrubs,bushes,debris, etc from the existing sligo line

Transport21 Fan wrote:

The is a rush to get a Mayo portion of the WRC basically operational for the next general election - getting the line safe enough for a PR/Photo Op train to run from Athenry to Claremorris (and possibly Charlestown) on the eve of the election.

Personally i hope claremorris to atheny-to galway is reopened.

As you said in your previous post, there is alot of houses built along the sligo line so basically what the government will do is open galway-athenry to clairemorrris -maybe to charlestown and leave it at that, wait for the dust to settle.the most indecisive government ever thats what i say.

D'Peoples Voice

Transport21 Fan wrote:

They have transferred the contractors from the completed Sligo line to the northern half of the WRC. Ultrasonic survey of the embankments for hidden caves in the ballast, bridge evaluation, drainage, level crossing replacement, CTC wiring and upgrades - it's all happening folks.

Is there an argument for taking the case to the High Court for an injunction against the work continuing. I haven't seen a EIS, yet money from the public purse is being spent on this project. What's the requirements to having a EIS carried out prior to serious work being undertaken on the line?

NavanJunction1

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

I haven't seen a EIS

Do you need an EIS for this??

MarkoP11

What is ongoing is IE clearing the alignment and fencing it in line with the recommendations of the McCann report, no one has anything against that. By doing so ensures no third party can gain adverse possession of the line. Beyond Claremorris the alignment has lain idle since 1975 bar a movement of a coach to Kiltamagh in 1988. While unlikely the line will ever reopen it is a sensible step which could have a big impact on costs.

If adverse possession has been obtained (as it has on some sections of the Claremorris Collooney line) a CPO may be required. The Cork Midleton line was closed in 1988 and cleared last year and a works order (with EIS) will be submitted to ensure any questions of adverse possession are dealt with as the works order will grant CPO's where needed.

Cork Midleton was cleared before Christmas the guys have just moved to the next section to clear. If they want to do a ground radar evaluation why not the staff and engineers are not needed on any other projects currently

If there are signalling people out its to do with Claremorris which is next on the list of stations to get resignalled and they would have to install equipment up to 500m towards Athenry and Collooney nothing unusual there and that funding is authorised, under mini CTC there is no mid section equipment, they are also busy on the Ennis Limerick section with level crossings. Replacing the level crossings requires a ministerial order such doesn't exist currently its not happening, no tender has been issued for level crossing equipment either so thats not happening anyway a report on every single crossing has to be submitted to the RSC stating why it cannot be closed or grade separated before it could possibly be upgraded

The line from Athenry to Claremorris is open to engineers trains it is passable if needs be, no EIS is required, upgrading and normal maintenance of rail infrastructure does not need planning approval

I personally have no problem with this the other projects are tied up in legal red tape (Midleton, Kildare, Pace) there is no point paying people to sit around and do nothing when those projects get rolling its going to get all quiet again

Transport21 Fan

The reason why there is red tape for Midleton (not sure about the others) is because of CIE Railway Managers had dragged their feet on the East Cork rail project since day one, to delay it as long as possible as they are not interested in developing, nor promoting the mass transit rail communting product (that's the RPA's function). Seamus Breannan had to literally force Dr John Lynch of your "shell company" to get down to Cork and start work on opening the line. When Brennan was thrown out of the DoT (to appease the CIE unions) there was NOTHING done in terms of railway works orders by CIE to do anything on the Midleton line and much of this paperwork backlog can be attributed to CIE not getting the ball rolling down there. The project has been held up for an extra 2 years by CIE not being arsed enough to push the agenda along - just like the could not be arsed to look for railfreight customers.

CIE are a "olde timey" railway culture - they like trains carrying civil servants back to their mammy's on the weekend in rural Mayo, or running GAA specials through the Phoenix Park tunnel on Sundays instead of viewing the Kildare-Platform 10-Park Tunnel-Connolly/Spencer Dock line as a commuter rail asset for a European capital city with chronic traffic congestion in the communting hiterland.

That's too much bother for them....It's simply not the CIE way..."it's a works tunnel"...

CIE are, and always will be a "boiled cabbage and bacon after mass with the mammy" railway company who are not in a hurry to do anything (DASH-2 upgrade anybody?) and they like their timetables with lots of white space and their railway stations filled with hanging baskets.

This is why the RPA represents the only hope of Navan getting a commuter rail service.

FFS look at Dublin Airport...for 60 years CIE had 3kms of green fields between the Northern Line and Dublin Airport and it was not until the RPA started talking about an Airport Luas/metro, that CIE came up with their stupid, half arsed, 'make it up as you go along' Airport Spurs ideas which went from "passengers dropping their bags off in Kent station in Cork and collecting them in Paris:rolleyes: " to "Double deckers trains" and it was all because the RPA were the ones who were hungry to finally have a go at it.

The ultra conservative Victorian ethos of the CIE railway division (currently trading under the IE brand) have only demostrated a sense of real "get up and go" when it came to their property portfolio expansion. Everything else has been "sure we'll get to it eventually" or the old standby of "no demand" and I suspect the KRP may be slow for much the same reasons. So this concept of giving their staff something to do is based on them not doing stuff in other places they should be doing.

As for the WRC and what is happening there now, well seeing is believing and talking to the local gombeens here is a real insight into how this country functions.

The next 16 months and what happens with the T21 timeline should be really interesting and I am more inclined to bet my money on a Railway Children's Heritage Locomotive special to Claremorris, than I am on a Luas BX route being selected or the Navan "scoping" being completed.

Though the fantastic SnellTram concept being considered for the Dublin metro is about the best news for rail users we have had lately. So it is not all negative.

Transport21 Fan

http://westontrack.com/Ballinlough.doc

1. that funding for the WRC must be from the National Exchequer as is the case with all other public transport investment in the country.

I guess it's only fair we have to counter balance all the public money being spent on the Luas Cherrywood extension...

However I believe the engineering capacity and interest is within Iarnrod Eireann to complete construction on the Ennis to Claremorris section well ahead of schedule and I would go as far as predicting it will be completed within three years and furthermore that a positive decision will be taken in regard the Claremorris –Sligo section in 2008 if not sooner!

This is in line with what I have been hearing. The WRC is being fast-tracked ahead of every other rail project in Transport 21.

Yes folks, you really do live in a banana republic.

DerekP11

This is in line with what I have been hearing. The WRC is being fast-tracked ahead of every other rail project in Transport 21.

Yes folks, you really do live in a banana republic.

Most people with any kind of proactive contribution already know this. But your constant "battering ram" approach to CIE/IE is outdated, useless and contains more "spin" than an actual spinning wheel. You could actually find a way to blame CIE/IE on 9-11.

By all accounts blame CIE for a lot of things rail related. (all are well documented) But change the record for a while or maybe just play the B-side. As for your habitual love and respect for the RPA...I hope it comes to fruition for you. But in this world no side is perfect.

Transport21 Fan

Dublin Metro costing 34 Billion Euro according to yet another West-on-Track rail transport "expert"...

Barry Kenny's comments at the end are VERY interesting as I can tell you for a fact that dozens of houses have been built right next to rail line, with in many cases the driveways paved over the actual track and Sligo CoCo was giving planning permission for this as late as 2002 - before they decided that Dublin was to "Give the West its Railway Back"

Wednesday, February 22, 2006
Charlestown rail platform is set to be restored
By: Orla Hearns

THE West on Track Committee expects a positive announcement with regard to the re-opening of the Western Rail Corridor before the next General Election.

Hedgecutting on the northern section of the line together with the restoration of the station platform in Charlestown by the local development association in conjunction with FAS are viewed as positive pointers of an anticipated move to revive the line.

Irish Rail this week confirmed that preservation works have been taking place on the railway line between Claremorris to Collooney in the event of a future decision to re-open the line.

Cllr Gerry Murray, who is one of the Charlestown representatives on the West on Track Committee, said work was progressing in Charlestown on the basis that the railway line would be re-opening.

The only question was when that would happen.

“We are still lobbying to have the whole network reopened in one tranche,” he explained.

He said the West on Track Committee will continue to put pressure on the Government to re-open the entire track and award two tenders for the project. One contractor should commence in Ennis and the other in Collooney so that they would meet half way.

Cllr Murray said the a line between Claremorris and Charlestown would not be viable without linking to Sligo and other gateway cities:

“Two million passengers are carried every year by bus on the Sligo-Galway-Limerick route. That is one of the most compelling arguments for the re-opening of the Western rail link,” he remarked.

“I would be very surprised if there was no positive announcement in relation to the opening of the whole line before the next general election,” he remarked.

The Councillor said the Government could not justify its proposed investment of

E34billion in a metro system for Dublin without a physical committment to transport in the West. The cost of re-opening the West on Track Campaign estimates that the re-opening of the Western Rail Corridor would cost E350million.

“I am confident that no matter who is in power a committment will be made to re-open the track from Sligo to Limerick and to do it within 5 years,” Cllr Murray concluded.

Mr Barry Kenny, spokesperson for Irish Rail, confirmed to the Western People that hedgecutting has taken place on the railway line between Claremorris and Collooney in recent weeks.

This will enable Irish Rail to assess whether there has been any encroachment on the rail line.

“We need to ensure that that does not happen in the event of a decision to re-open the line,” Mr Kenny said.

http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story.asp?j=29530

OPEN THE EASTERN FISH CORRIDOR NOW!

Andrew Duffy

Can you imagine what the city would be like if 34 billion were spent on a Metro system?

murphaph

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Can you imagine what the city would be like if 34 billion were spent on a Metro system?

Jaysus Andrew the whole island would topple over into the irish sea!

dr zoidberg

Ubelievable. West on Drugs ups the propoganda ante again. You can't trust a word they say.

You should set up a Eastern Fish Corridor website T21Fan. Only problem is they'd probably take it seriously :rolleyes:

fly_agaric

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Can you imagine what the city would be like if 34 billion were spent on a Metro system?

bejay, you could get about 13 Oresund Bridges for that!

"19.8billion DKK construction costs (~EUR2.7billion)"

http://osb.oeresundsbron.dk/library/index.php?obj=2235&menu=512

I'm no expert (unlike other people that posty here) but maybe 34billion is a bit of an overestimate - even for Ireland (given how much the Luas ended up costing)?

D'Peoples Voice

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Can you imagine what the city would be like if 34 billion were spent on a Metro system?

I wonder how they calculated that figure! The DOT released the following press release on November 1st, 2005

An integrated transport system for Dublin, to include seven new Luas projects, two Metro lines, an underground station at St. Stephen's Green integrating all services and the Western Rail Corridor are among the investments outlined today in Transport 21, the Government's EUR 34.4billion transport investment plan (full details attached).

Transport 21 also includes new commuter rail services for Cork City and Galway City, DART extensions in Dublin, and a new road route connecting Donegal, to Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford, known as the Atlantic Corridor.

and WOT say that the Metro alone will cost EUR 34!
By my calculations that leaves EUR 0.4 billion for seven new Luas projects,an underground station at St. Stephen's Green integrating all services and the Western Rail Corridor, new commuter rail services for Cork City and Galway City, DART extensions in Dublin, and a new road route connecting Donegal, to Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford, known as the Atlantic Corridor!

I love the paragraph that says

The Councillor said the Government could not justify its proposed investment of EUR 34billion in a metro system for Dublin without a physical committment to transport in the West. The cost of re-opening the West on Track Campaign estimates that the re-opening of the Western Rail Corridor would cost EUR 350million.

Even if this were true, and we know it's not, you simply can't compare projects based on cost, and say one deserves to be built because it costs a fraction of the other. Did these guys never study NPV, IRR etc, what's the ratio of passengers expected per millions spent!

Victor

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

and WOT say that the Metro alone will cost EUR 34!
By my calculations that leaves EUR 0.4 billion for seven new Luas projects,an underground station at St. Stephen's Green integrating all services and the Western Rail Corridor, new commuter rail services for Cork City and Galway City, DART extensions in Dublin, and a new road route connecting Donegal, to Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford, known as the Atlantic Corridor!

But you have to deduct the €350m for the WRC, that leaves €50m for all those projects.

Transport21 Fan

Interesting rurmor floating around. There is to be no regular passenger service to operate on the Athenry-Claremorris section of the WRC as no rolling stock and staff and new stations for the section is included in T21. The line is to be relayed and signalled and opened for specials and freight trains if required, but no new stations, or regular passenger services are to included in the opening.

Any post T21 passenger service north of Athenry is dependent upon the success of Ennis to Athenry and Galways-Athenry communter and more importantly Galway and Mayo CoCo's developing the corridor north of Athenry. This ities in with what Minister Gallagher stated in the Dail recently. North of Athery is just going to be track and not trains or stations to Claremorris.

The ball is in the court of the CoCo's if they want to see commuter trains to Tuam and beyond. Proper order too.

Victor

Has anyone told them the Basllina branch is closing? http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7048-7.pdf

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Interesting rurmor floating around. There is to be no regular passenger service to operate on the Athenry-Claremorris section of the WRC as no rolling stock and staff and new stations for the section is included in T21.

How do you know? No details of T21 have been published.