Western Rail Corridor

dowlingm

Nav Junc

technically if you include Navan-Drogheda phase 1 could be 0 km

Hoof Hearted

Happy to see you're willing to take on board what's been said here. I don't think anyone would oppose people being able to take a train from Ballina to Cork or Westport to Rosslare - the point is that the cost shouldn't cause the rest of the network to be neglected (such as the speed restrictions at Portarlington and Limerick Junction which hold up the Dublin-Cork line).

I note that there are road improvements planned for Collooney-Charlestown - 25km worth. Perhaps local pols could ask for that project to be cancelled outright and any budgeted money to be reallocated to the WRC Trust Fund - west on track is always going on about how the WRC could be operational in five minutes if they just cancelled a few roads.

Funnily enough this Trust Fund thing is a wheeze the Province of Ontario is trying in order to hide a budget surplus and build a vote buying subway so it should be ideal for Ireland!

This fund would contain all the development levies collected in that corridor together with a levy on Knock Airport (well, if it's going to benefit from the line why shouldn't it contribute). The fund would be jointly run by the DoT and contributing county councils for the purpose of funding transport infrastructure in that corridor of either rail or buses or Brian Guckian's ultra light rail or whatever you're having yourself. Then the locals would a) get exactly what they want and b) have to live with their decision.

murphaph

monument wrote:

"when Sligo/Mayo/Galway/Clare CC's get their planning together"

And sure that’s because the planning in the Greater Dublin Area (and might as well add the greater area around it) is perfect and no one has every questioned it. Sure, its world class.

Poor planning (due in no small part to corrupt politicians) was rife right across Dublin. I say was because planning in the Greater Dublin Region is pretty tightly controlled tody. You try to get planning permission for a one-off rural house in north Fingal and you'll rapidly see just how tightly controlled it is, and that's farmers' sons and daughters who are being refused permission here! Same goes for Meath, Wicklow and to an extent Kildare. South Dublin, Dunlaoighaire-Rathdown and Dublin City are all pretty much built upon but even so, all these places have higher density targets and you are generally finding plenty of densification (in the form of in-fill apartment developments) taking place. Dublin learned a really horrible lesson about bad planning. The areas I mentioned previousy have not learned from Dublin's mistake and are blindly following it down the road to disaster. Take a trip along the Maynooth railway line from Drumcondra someday and look to your right.....thousands of high density units going in. No more low density sprawl permitted. If I see this sort of thing take place in Sligo & Mayo along the WRC then I might be swayed, but until I see something, anything to suggest otherwise I will believe all we can expect from these councillors (and their constituents) is further one-off housing colonisation of the countryside with no hope of the critical mass for rail to flourish.

Victor

Sigh. Please for fuk sake give the poor undervalued culchie victim routine a rest.

Please attack the post, no the poster. Some people are veering towarsds the later.

अधिनायक

What's a better way to spend 300m on public transport in Connacht? I can think of things you could do in the larger towns like Glaway and Sligo such as commuter rail but I can't think of much that can be done in Mayo other than buses and roads. Presumably people in Mayo would prefer the money to spent on roads and buses rather than a train they'll never use.

Any Mayo people on this thread?

Transport21 Fan

NJ, that photo you posted I know that house well... if the WRC was reopened that guy's house would be totally marooned from the rest of the world. The only solution would be to build a level crossing for one house! What's most telling of all is that Sligo CoCo granted planning permission for that house around 1997 I think? So it's hardly his fault the drawings he submitted to Sligo CoCo with the access road across the "vital railway" were approved by local planners.

And it's not the only one, it's just the easiest to photograph from the Coolnacool-Coolooney road - there are dozens of houses in Sligo alone along the WRC like that. A bit further south of there is a entire forest of trees planted on the line by a farmer.

So much for the people of the area demanding "their railway back"...

Look at the wide sleeper spacing on that section of WRC. It's more like a railway leading into a mine for donkies to pull coal cars into than a RAIL CORRIDOR. Hard to believe that locomotives ever ran on it. Well they did, at like 10 mph...

Oh, and one more interesting fact. During the recent clean up (which has totally stopped) NOT ONE farmer's fence crossing the WRC was removed. Very telling eh?

Navan Junction

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Oh, and one more interesting fact. During the recent clean up (which has totally stopped) NOT ONE farmer's fence crossing the WRC was removed. Very telling eh?

When did it stop? Ó Cuiv had a press release announcing fencing of the line in Feb I think?

I have to say 2 things stick in my mind from Frank McDonald's article. 750 passengers a day and 290 level crossings.

I thought Navan Kingscourt was bad with 14. And even in it's present state Navan Kingscourt is only 750 passengers a day short of the estimated passenger traffic on the WRC.

I just wish that the Transport 21 Plan had been costed, modelled etc.

The great vagueness (although like that purposely for political fudge reasons) has caused too much devisiveness.

I wish I could look at the Transport 21 delivery sheet and say it is a plan. I'd love to say that it has been scientifically tested, based on merit. I'd love it to really be a 10 year transport plan that this island could be proud of.

But it's not. It was designed on the basis that the opposition in the upcoming election would not be able to compete with fantasy. So the plan is all things to all people, in a manner of speaking.

And this is why I worry that Frank McDonald's article is going to be the catalyst for a collapse in public confidence in the government's abilities to actually develope transport plans.

Time for National Railway Authority anyone?

dowlingm

nav junc - better to combine it with NRoadsA and make the new NRRA justify any new roads project as superior to rail (and vice versa). Why have two sets of infrastructure planners when you can have one large one with subdivisions for road and rail specific work, and the NRRA will have no excuse for stuff like putting a single track road bridge over the Waterford line as with the M7/M9 because their inhouse rail people would have flagged it.

An NRA that's road only will crush any NRailA opposition.

Navan Junction

dowlingm wrote:

NRA that's road only will crush any NRailA opposition.

Hmm. Hadn't considered it like that. My worry about an amalgamated one was that it might water down the rail aspect to lip service. (A bit like how CIÉ has embraced property and ditched rail).

That is a fair point. And sure MCC and NRA had no intention of putting bridges in on the M3 at all near Navan - iadaquate bridging of aliignments seems the norm..

dowlingm wrote:

technically if you include Navan-Drogheda phase 1 could be 0 km

True.. I live right beside the line. I hear it in the mornings and the evening as the train always sounds the horn coming in to the station and a few times before it leaves.

It is crazy that it is closed

Schuhart

Navan Junction wrote:

And this is why I worry that Frank McDonald's article is going to be the catalyst for the collapse in public confidence in the government's abilities to actually development transport plans.

You have a point here. For my own part - not really having studied the Transport 21 plan in any detail - I frankly did think it was just a WRC writ large. I don't have confidence in this Government doing anything apart from throwing vast sums of money at anything they think might be popular, without much care as to what that money will achieve.

I'd like to see coherent public transport development, based on a coherent plan on where new housing and commercial development will be concentrated.
But I've no expectation of this being achieve under the present regime, and not a lot more confidence of a Fine Gael led government being that radical an alternative.

Victor

The densities shown on this poster is what should put this thing to bed.

http://www.ireland.com/timeseye/whoweare/poster.htm

Navan Junction

That is excellent. I hadn't seen that poster before.

SeanW

Last year, Thomas S showed us some pictures of Bus Eireanns new fleet it's using on the new Sligo-Shannon-Cork service, which runs hourly. They're like mini-hotels. Plus with all the road developments, its going to be faster and more comfortable.

The WRC, originally a light railway, will cost hundreds of millions to rebuild and have a top speed of something like 50 or 60 MPH, and will likely be stocked by Commuter railcars, such as the 2700, indeed West On Track once headlined their site with a 29K, with "Sligo-Limerick" in the caption.

My question is this:

What kind of drugs do you have to be taking to think that an Intercity passenger from Sligo (and we're talking InterCity here because no-ones going to be taking the train/bus to go to Swinford) would prefer an expensive, slow journey in a wobbly noisy uncomfortable 29K that runs 3 times a day, versus a fast, cheap, comfy service that runs 20 times a day?

Transport21 Fan

murphaph wrote:

Is guckian in charge of the slides at this meeting? :cool:

Finger's crossed.

http://groups.msn.com/irishrailwaynews/crisisonie.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=21327&LastModified=4675576316282510136&all_topics=1

Message 374 of 388 in Discussion
From: Ivatt Sent: 6/9/2006 3:42 PM
On the contrary...this "editorial" is in fact the biggest load of crap I have ever read in The Irish Times and has the fingerprints of IBEC all over it.

This newspaper has the gall to employ an Environment Correspondent, yet simultaneously writes this hopelessly uninformed claptrap.

In a momumental act of ignorance, they refer to the so-called

"urgent development of a north/south dual carriageway"

despite the fact that road-building is becoming ever more profoundly uneconomic - and that's a fact. They also refer to the need for "public transport" - as if rail wasn't a mode of public transport. It also sounds like they've never heard of energy efficiency, social inclusion, the Kyoto protocol, etc., etc., - one could go on all day.

And their assertions that the WRC is unviable and that the "study involving local interests" found the WRC to be "impractical" - are just simply plain wrong. Where on earth is their journalistic integrity?

In fact this is so bad and so partisan that it is deeply, deeply suspicious. It looks like that vested interests are having a go at this, or it could even be some bizarre exercise with other motives, and God knows what they may be.

It is in fact very serious when a reputable newspaper of record comes out with this tosh. You wouldn't even see this crap in the Indo, and that's really saying something.

Message 387 of 388 in Discussion
From: Ivatt Sent: 6/10/2006 11:30 PM
Just to kill that garbage "750" a day figure once and for all, because though it was rejected by the Working Group, according to West=On=Track, it has now been given new life thanks to the Irish Times.

Let's do the maths: 750 passengers a day on the route from Limerick to Galway and Claremorris (no Burma Road) is 325 passengers each way. Let's break that in two to get 188 passengers approx. from Limerick to Galway and from Galway to Claremorris.

Now let's assume a modest 12-hour operating period (7am to 7pm). That works out at 16 passengers each way per hour in each of the two sections.

Yes, check the figures again! That's what these "consultants" came up with. And they're to be believed unquestioningly like they're some modern-day Greek gods. No wonder this was thrown out by the Working Group.

No, the real story here is why The Irish Times decided to have a go at the WRC, long after the West=On=Track Report, the McCann Report, the positive Multi-Criteria Analysis and Transport 21. Someone, somewhere knows the truth, and it would make for a very interesting story in say, The Village magazine.

BTW, note how yet again people are trying to have us believe that the WRC "is taking away" from The Interconnector / Navan / Dublin improvements / a high=speed line / the Atlantic Tunnel / relieving third world debt / an irrigation scheme in Egypt, and whatever we can come up with over a few pints.

No, this old chesnut was put to bed years ago - and in any case since both the WRC and Navan are in Transport 21, thus one can't take from the other, even if you bought into this false logic.

This is all real-life Alice In Wonderland stuff..."Curiouser and curiouser"!

Schuhart

Let's do the maths: 750 passengers a day on the route from Limerick to Galway and Claremorris (no Burma Road) is 325 passengers each way. Let's break that in two to get 188 passengers approx. from Limerick to Galway and from Galway to Claremorris.

Now let's assume a modest 12-hour operating period (7am to 7pm). That works out at 16 passengers each way per hour in each of the two sections.

Yes, check the figures again! That's what these "consultants" came up with. And they're to be believed unquestioningly like they're some modern-day Greek gods. No wonder this was thrown out by the Working Group.

Am I right in saying that there would be real life figures available in respect of existing rail services that would suggest these loadings are actually realistic. For example, the Westport service stops at every rock in the road once it crosses the Shannon, so I expect it would give some picture of what intra-town traffic might be expected.

bk

I don't get why people in these regions want to get a rail project so badly. Surely the money would be better spent on building a HQDC or HQ 2+1 along the same route.

Surely travelling at 120km/h in the comfort of your own car, for less then the cost of a train ticket would be preferable to a train. As long as the road was well built, I'm sure traffic congestion could be avoided. Surely on a good road, such a trip would be quicker and cheaper by car?

Hell the majority of people drive Cork to Dublin just because it is cheaper.

Travel by car is the reality in rural areas, the reality of the low density of this region is such that people would probably need to drive to the station anyway.

I mean look at the 2002 CSO figures:

Gort, Galway 1776
Athenry, Galway 2154 *
Tuam, Galway 5847
Claremorris, Mayo 2101 *
Collooney, Sligo 619 *

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland/2002_Census_Records

* Already have rail.

Who is going to be using this?

Ennis to Limerick might make sense as Ennis has a population of over 22,051 and is close enough to Limerick to maybe be a commuter Town of Limerick, but the other towns simply don't measure up.

This seems to me to be just another white elephant project, it seems to be in a similar vain to other stupid projects I've heard about like a LUAS for Cork, Galway, Limerick.

monument

Navan Junction wrote:

The pipeline will not object to being moved.

Is there any will to move it?

Navan Junction wrote:

Time for National Railway Authority anyone?

If it was going to be any thing like the NRA, then no. You're having a joke. The NRA is a political tool with control minuses responsibility (ie like a bit like the RPA and CIE).

bk wrote:

This seems to me to be just another white elephant project, it seems to be in a similar vain to other stupid projects I've heard about like a LUAS for Cork, Galway, Limerick.

No need to reply to the rest of your post.

Navan Junction

monument wrote:

Is there any will to move it?

The will to move the pipeline is irrelevant. The question should be whether there is political will to reopen the line?

No, there isn't.

monument wrote:

If it was going to be any thing like the NRA, then no. You're having a joke. The NRA is a political tool with control minuses responsibility (ie like a bit like the RPA and CIE).

Under the current system not one new or old railway has been opened unless you count the Luas.

At the moment we have a railway management company (CIÉ) and a procurement company (RPA). The missing link is a railway development agency or authority to decide projects on merits and on economic benefit, social, traffic management basis etc.

Because decisions on railways are based on political will, we have a situation where gridlock free Ennis to Collooney is fast-tracked ahead of anywhere else.

That isn't right. Sure Dublin that can't even get a cross city metro, but Connaught will get a cross province rail is strange. Apart from Spencer Dock (another story) the only project I have seen any action on is the WRC. Is that right?

Today I spoke to land-owners along the Clonsilla - Dunboyne stretch of ""Navan rail Phase 1"". They have not seen any IÉ engineers surveying the route. Nothing is happening.

So if not a Railway Authority what is your solution to the politicisation of railway infrastructure provision?

Navan Junction

12/06/2006

We need a well integrated and connected transport network to counter the concentrated economic activity on the east coast, writes Lisa McAllister.


Last Wednesday's Irish Times article by Frank McDonald argued: "The Government ignored doubts over the Western Rail Corridor" and implied there was no case for its reinstatement or that its potential viability had not been properly scrutinised.

This is simply not true - in fact, the opposite is the case. Nor is it the case that money earmarked for the corridor should be spent on the roads. Quite simply it is not either/or - the western region badly needs both.

Putting the region in context, there is a population of 742,877 in the seven counties served by the Western Rail Corridor (Census 2002) mostly in the immediate catchment area.

Add to this the Central Statistics Office's population projections which indicate that the west will be the second fastest-growing region, increasing its population by 35 per cent by 2021. The border population is expected to rise by 26 per cent and that of the midwest is expected to rise by 20 per cent by 2021. If these people are not catered for, they could always add to the gridlock in Dublin.

The Government set up an expert group that was independently chaired by former chief executive of Jurys Hotel Group Pat McCann.

Its task was to examine the case for reopening the Western Rail Corridor and this group recommended its immediate reopening on a phased basis.

As part of this group, the Western Development Commission agrees that investment in the corridor makes economic sense. Unlike many major capital investment programmes, the basic infrastructure for the Western Rail Corridor is already in place - the land is in public ownership and there are no planning issues.

Iarnród Éireann was a full member of the expert group that asked internationally respected consultants FaberMaunsell to study the capital cost estimates and the potential demand for the line. FaberMaunsell put the capital costs of restoring the line from Sligo to Ennis at €365.7 million, or just 1 per cent of the total budget of the transport investment programme - Transport 21.

Phase one - from Ennis to Claremorris - would cost €168.3 million, less than half of 1 per cent of Transport 21's total budget.

Public transport spending in the Border, Midland, West (BMW) Region under the National Development Plan was just over half of that forecast for 2000-2005.

This compares with a 7 per cent overspend in the South and East region. Phase one of the Western Rail Corridor could be completed for a fraction of the €2.5 billion-plus underspend in the BMW region at the end of 2005 and it could be completed in 18 months unlike many other measures proposed under Transport 21.

Services on the corridor will link existing rail lines emanating from Dublin, improving rail connections and integrating the rail network more comprehensively.

We believe this will generate additional demand with many new commuting services possible.

Also the Western Rail Corridor would provide much needed improved connections to Knock airport, the only international airport in the BMW region. This airport is growing rapidly with passenger numbers rising 42 per cent in 2004-2005. The rail corridor will also provide improved access to Shannon International Airport.

As well as having thousands of small and medium enterprises, the region also has major clusters of big international businesses ranging from medical devices to IT.

To compete globally these firms need a serious upgrade of the region's transport infrastructure as the movement of people and knowledge is essential to them.

Also, tourism, an important element in the region's economy - where the trend is to shorter more frequent holidays, needs much better transport access to and within the region.

There are two million bus passengers and over seven million cars travelling the Sligo-Limerick route annually. The N17 route at Claregalway is one of State's busiest. Providing a rail service will in itself generate demand. This has been the experience with the opening of the Limerick-Ennis line. Passenger numbers in the first year of operation exceeded all expectations.

Currently there are no plans for the reintroduction of services as far as Sligo, which is experiencing exceptional growth, and will be the only gateway town whose rail link to other gateways is via Dublin.

This strategic rail line, when reopened, will link Limerick, Galway, and Sligo, with onward connections to Cork and Waterford. It will also link these cities to Ennis, Tuam, Castlebar and Ballina via a public transport network as advocated in the National Spatial Strategy.

Furthermore, in linking Sligo to Limerick, 14 smaller and medium towns along the route will reap direct and almost instantaneous benefits. The reopening of the Western Rail Corridor is stated Government policy.

A well integrated and connected transport network is what the country needs to grow in a more sustainable regionally balanced manner, providing a counter attraction to the concentration of economic activity on the east coast.

Improved accessibility will help the region to capitalise on the advantages of living and working in the west - as does the the message of the Western Development Commission's Look West campaign that encourages people to move there.

Lisa McAllister is chief executive of the Western Development Commission.

© The Irish Times

bk

Navan Junction wrote:

Putting the region in context, there is a population of 742,877 in the seven counties served by the Western Rail Corridor (Census 2002) mostly in the immediate catchment area.

That is nice, but as I pointed out in an earlier post, the total population of the towns to be served by the WRC is 12,497 (CSO 2002).

Sure there are lots more people living in the general area, but given the very low density, rural nature of the region, most of these people would need to drive to the station. And if you already have a car, you would probably prefer to drive to your destination, specially if there is a good quality road linking this area, probably making the trip cheaper and faster by car.

I've yet to see a single convincing argument for WRC.

It seems to me to be one of those things where people look to the East, see Dublin getting big rail projects (badly needed) and then say they want the same for themselves, even if it isn't the best solution for there problems.

I see the same bs with some clueless people in Cork looking for a LUAS. It is like something out of the Simpsons, remeber the one with the monorail.

John R

Navan Junction wrote:

Putting the region in context, there is a population of 742,877 in the seven counties served by the Western Rail Corridor (Census 2002) mostly in the immediate catchment area.

Immediate catchment area??? So most of the 742,877 are within walking distance of the WRC now are they?

Navan Junction wrote:

Add to this the Central Statistics Office's population projections which indicate that the west will be the second fastest-growing region, increasing its population by 35 per cent by 2021. The border population is expected to rise by 26 per cent and that of the midwest is expected to rise by 20 per cent by 2021. If these people are not catered for, they could always add to the gridlock in Dublin.

And with the money saved from building and running this folly they can be catered for along with thousands of others who haven't got a choice about dealing with Dublin's gridlock.

DerekP11

Ah, the tale of woe continues.

Really, is this the best that can be done? A letter from West on Track that avoids the original statistics? An article from the WDC, that claims the stats are wrong, but offers nothing more than a standard cut and paste job from one of their annual reports?

As for expert working group? C'mon. Who's having a laugh?

Anyone see the contradictions here? WOT in their Times Letter, claim that traffic gridlock is crazy.(the N17 is the M50 of the west.:D ) The WDC piece refers to the Lookwest.ie site, which promotes the fact that the west is traffic free and commute times average 20 minutes or so!! The catchment area for the WRC has a population figure of over 700,000......And? How many of them drive a tractor to work? Im not being smart or offensive here. How many don't work by choice? How many live in Limerick, Galway and Sligo suburbs and either drive to work, use bus transport or won't actually have a need for any kind of service on the WRC because it doesn't serve the "suburbs" they live in. Ms. Mcallisters use of figures is benign to say the least. If we apply the same argument to the proposed Navan line, then the catchment area would be in the region of the population of mid/north Meath! That is not how projected rail demand is worked out.

In my opinion, their counter argument is rather weak, contrived and lacking in reality. The only real fact they have is that the reopening of the WRC is stated Government policy. Does that make it right?

monument

Navan Junction wrote:

The will to move the pipeline is irrelevant. The question should be whether there is political will to reopen the line?... No, there isn't.

I had guessed you would have figured out that I was talking about political will.

Navan Junction wrote:

So if not a Railway Authority what is your solution to the politicisation of railway infrastructure provision?

For starters, a DTA with such powers. In fact, a DTA with infrastructure planning powers for both rail and road (and on the river etc) - just to note, I have yet to read what powers the proposed DTA will have.

Navan Junction

monument wrote:

For starters, a DTA with such powers. In fact, a DTA with infrastructure planning powers for both rail and road (and on the river etc) - just to note, I have yet to read what powers the proposed DTA will have.

Yes, but that still leaves the politicisation problem nationally.

murphaph

Lisa McAllister wrote:

there is a population of 742,877 in the seven counties served by the Western Rail Corridor (Census 2002) mostly in the immediate catchment area.

This is an out and out lie Ms McAllister. International norms would require these people to be within walking distance of a station (not just the alignment) to lie within the WRC's immediate catchment area. It seems that if you're from the west you can just tell porkie-pies about CSO figures and go unquestioned.

Navan Junction

Letter to the Editor, Irish Independent, 12.06.2006

Recent media coverage has highlighted how provision of railway infrastructure in Ireland seems to be based on political expediency rather than merit.

It is ludicrous that the Western Rail Corridor (WRC) is expected to attract only 750 passengers per day, considering that the project to reinstate the 234km long line from Sligo to Ennis is expected to cost in the region of €550m.

750 passengers is only enough to fill half of a single eight-car 29000 railcar set of the type which currently operates the Dublin Sligo line.

Effectively, the railway project which has been dubbed "the biggest railway reopening in the State's history" will not see enough passengers per day to fill a single Intercity train.

Before the Minister for Transport wastes more than half a billion Euro to move 750 people from Limerick to Sligo daily, I would ask him to reconsider another project that could move thousands of commuters in and out of Dublin within months and which would cost less than one tenth of the cost of reinstating the Western Rail Corridor.

An upgrade of the Navan railway line to Dublin via Drogheda would cost only €54m.

The line is 17 miles long, and only half the distance of the first 36-mile Ennis-Athenry stretch of the Western Rail Corridor which will be reopened by 2008 under Transport 21, and would have a 65 minute journey time to Dublin.

If the Minister cannot see the need to reinstate the Navan Clonsilla line immediately as a priority under Transport 21, then maybe he could at least reconsider a Navan Drogheda line upgrade to facilitate passenger trains from Navan by mid 2007.

PROINSIAS
MAC FHEARGHUSA,
NAVAN,
CO MEATH

markf909

there is a population of 742,877 (!! yeah roysh) in the seven counties served by the Western Rail Corridor

Pardon my ignorance of western geography, but what counties beyond Limerick, Clare, Galway, Mayo and Sligo are on the WRC?
That article is an insult, she doesnt offer a single rebuttle of any of Frank McDonalds original points other than "it should be built".

monument

Navan Junction wrote:

Yes, but that still leaves the politicisation problem nationally.

Yes, it does. But at least with the DTA there’s a slim chance control will be split with multiply authorities, with stronger Dublin area focus.

Transport21 Fan

markf909 wrote:

Pardon my ignorance of western geography, but what counties beyond Limerick, Clare, Galway, Mayo and Sligo are on the WRC?
That article is an insult, she doesnt offer a single rebuttle of any of Frank McDonalds original points other than "it should be built".

has there ever been any other argument put forward to support this folly?

You are right about this being insulting - unless of course she is too stupid to understand the difference between population density and population. Which I doubt is true.

The WRC is like the Moving Statues of the Virgin Mary during the early 1990's. A religious gob****e said it was true and mass hysteria followed. The people claiming that the WRC will carry more than 750 passengers a day are just like the people in the RTE newsreports at Ballyspittle saying "our ladies finger went like this, like..." while the rest of us looked on in shock at the madness and spectacle at otherwise intelligent people lost in mass hysteria.

In 10 years times we will look at the WRC the same way. The Germans have a term for when normally rational folk get caught up in a psychological storm... which escapes me now? This is the story of the WRC. I think NJ's bruatally honest statement today that of "half a billion for 750 people a day" will open a lot of eyes to the sheer madness of it all. It really is that bonkers.

Hoof Hearted

Navan Junction wrote:

Letter to the Editor, Irish Independent, 12.06.2006

Recent media coverage has highlighted how provision of railway infrastructure in Ireland seems to be based on political expediency rather than merit.

It is ludicrous that the Western Rail Corridor (WRC) is expected to attract only 750 passengers per day, considering that the project to reinstate the 234km long line from Sligo to Ennis is expected to cost in the region of €550m.

750 passengers is only enough to fill half of a single eight-car 29000 railcar set of the type which currently operates the Dublin Sligo line.

Effectively, the railway project which has been dubbed "the biggest railway reopening in the State's history" will not see enough passengers per day to fill a single Intercity train.

Before the Minister for Transport wastes more than half a billion Euro to move 750 people from Limerick to Sligo daily, I would ask him to reconsider another project that could move thousands of commuters in and out of Dublin within months and which would cost less than one tenth of the cost of reinstating the Western Rail Corridor.


PROINSIAS
MAC FHEARGHUSA,
NAVAN,
CO MEATH

Let's get one thing straight the 750 people daily number is being quoted as if it is a fact. What methodology was used to obtain this number? One should not compare the WRC to a commuter line, that is, one does not have to be within 10 minutes walk to be considered being in the catchment area as the WRC will be primarily a line used by long distance travellers.
Looking at costs, it would be much cheaper to travel by rail than by car. I will illustrate this with an example. Take the example of a traveller from Ballyshannon to Cork. Driving costs are 51c/mile (12c/mile petrol and 39c/mile depreciation/maintenance). Total journey is 474 miles roundtrip costing 241euro by car. The alternative by rail is a 20 mile car trip from Ballyshannon to Sligo (40 miles roundtrip) and board the train in Sligo. Car costs 21euro plus 5 euro parking plus rail costs 60euro for a total of 86euro. If travel times are similar you have a very competitive argument to travel the journey by rail and save 63% i.e. save 155 euro. Plus there are no parking charges when in Cork. Toilet facilities are available, lunch can be eaten while on the move, plus one can walk and stretch the legs. Many people do not take account of the depreciation cost of a car when making comparisons but it is the largest cost of car ownership. If petrol continues to go up in price the rail advantage improves.
Now my example illustrates someone that is 20 miles from the nearest station and I think the choice would be clear on a cost basis (use rail via the WRC instead of the car). An existing real life example of this is people from Dingle driving 45 minutes to Tralee to get the train to Dublin.

As I've said in previous posts rail starts to become attactive for rural transit at distances longer than 100 miles and especially so when the journey exceeds 150 miles. On a 217 mile journey Sligo to Cork, it's a no brainer. Tourists don't want the hassle (cost) of hiring a car to travel the tourist sites many of which are located on the western seaboard. When Ireland's population is 50% higher in 20 years time, it'll be a case of why did we not have the foresight?

Using the bus may not loose out in cost, but in many other areas it does loose its competitiveness, comfort, speed, traffic congestion, reliablility. Give any body on the Killarney-Dublin journey the choice of car, rail or bus for the same price and I think the choice would be clear. (rail)

BTW I am also in strong agreement that the Navan rail project should have higher priority than the WRC. Comparisons between the two projects are not easily made though as the Navan project would be commuter based whereas the arguments for the WRC will be primarily long distance with portions fulfilling a commuter role. That is why the WRC will have to be competitive with journey times/speed, some express trains with fewer stops and high quality track would accomplish this.

One final thing.. an irritation.... why do these spokepersons always use the Irish version of there name as if it gains them some phantom respect.
PROINSIAS MAC FHEARGHUSA, Your name is Francis Ferguson and live with it.

Navan Junction

Hoof Hearted wrote:

PROINSIAS MAC FHEARGHUSA, Your name is Francis Ferguson and live with it.

Tell that to Colmán Ó Raghallaigh....:p

What about Proinsias de Rossa? Or Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh? Or Eamonn de Valera (sort of!)..

Maybe you should live with it... Guess you will have to, but hey I'm sure you can use whatever versions that you want.