Western Rail Corridor

Transport21 Fan

One final thing.. an irritation.... why do these spokepersons always use the Irish version of there name as if it gains them some phantom respect.

When I start my next rail crusade to reopen the Fintona Horse Tramway commuter service with ultra-light ponies I am going to call myself Count Hercules O'Semtex-Garvaghy OBE.

Navan Junction

Transport21 Fan wrote:

When I start my next rail crusade to reopen the Fintona Horse Tramway commuter service with ultra-light ponies I am going to call myself Count Hercules O'Semtex-Garvaghy OBE.

Or Horse::On::Track...:rolleyes:

Sure aren't we all multi-cultural now?

Are you going to say that Gaelic speakers should go back to the west of Ireland?

murphaph

Navan Junction wrote:

Tell that to Colmán Ó Raghallaigh....:p

One of the best comebacks I've heard on this forum

Hoof Hearted, you again repeat the (false) mantra that the train will be faster than the bus. How many times do you have to be told that you won't get 100mph running, you'll actually get 50mph running and the train inconveniently avoids many towns along the route which the bus can penetrate.

Your figures for depreciation are crazy, you are making assumptions that cars only depreciate when they are driven! They depreciate just sitting on your driveway and given the relatively high fixed costs of motoring here (tax and insurance) versus the relatively (currently at least) low cost of fuel,it only incentivises car owners to actually use their vehicles for such journeys.

You have effectively accepted that the WRC in it's entirety is NOT a commuter railway. So, fair comparisons can be drawn with the only other non-Dublin centric IC line, Limerick-Rosslare. It provides similar low frequency IC service and has appaling patronage.

The future of rail in Ireland is in commuting.

Transport21 Fan

Or Horse::On::Track...

Already a fact of life with the Traveller Halting sites on the Burma Road.

Were is the social justice for these people when they are to evicted from their homes for British trainspotter!

That's it, I am e-mailing Pavee Point. Travellers are about to told "Go, Move, Shift" to make way for "Nigel, Craven, 121".

markpb

Hoof Hearted wrote:

Many people do not take account of the depreciation cost of a car when making comparisons but it is the largest cost of car ownership. If petrol continues to go up in price the rail advantage improves.

I think you've undone your own arguement there. If people do not take it into account, they will compare 12c * 474m = €57 against the train being 60 and decide to drive.

the Navan project would be commuter based whereas the arguments for the WRC will be primarily long distance with portions fulfilling a commuter role.

From what I've seen of the suggested timetables, not many people could commute on the WRC, at least not people who work 9-5 jobs. I could be wrong though and of course, the timetables won't actually be decided for a long time.

Before anyone bits my head off, I'm not from Dublin and I'm not against money being spend on the west. I'd rather see the same amount of money being spent on a really good bus network than on a rail line that won't live up to hopes.

Some of BE's new buses on the long distance routes such as the 30 to Donegal are fantastic (on good roads) and every bit as comfortable as a train. They can serve many more towns than a train-line without pushing up cost. Upgrading the national routes along the WRC with a good surface and bus lanes approaching high traffic towns should be part of this.

The rest of the money should be spent on a good, integrated local service branching off from the long distance routes. Reasonably high frequency local services would have a huge impact on people living in the west.

dowlingm

markf909

to answer your question - WRC advocates count Leitrim and Roscommon as well.

Navan Junction

markpb wrote:

Before anyone bits my head off, I'm not from Dublin and I'm not against money being spend on the west.

If you want to know about discrimination look at Meath. The M1 is tolled. The M4 is tolled. The M3 is tolled twice in 15 miles.

The people of Kells are going to be severly disadvantaged in years to come because if there is a down-turn in the economy then they will not be able to sell their homes because they will be stuck behind 2 tolls to get to work.

The Navan link is. It is the only way for people to get to work. According to Work in Meath 98% of Meath's commuters commute to Dublin.

And they are being hammered by tolls everywhere. There are 4 tolls in Meath.

And 2.5hr long journey times to travel 30 short miles.

The hard questions are being asked about the WRC because it will only carry 750 passengers, not because it is in the West.

I don't see an east west divide - I just see a single country. With loads of infrastructural problems that need to be organised by priority.

Navan Junction

Oh, and I forgot the levies.

Meath County Council through development levies which could be passed onto first time house buyers in Meath will have to raise €225m to pay for half the cost of the Navan link.

That's on top of 2 M3 tolls.

nollaig

I regard Knock International as a White Elephant, since it would have been far better from the view of balanced regional development to build it in Sligo. Instead the ravings of a miracle struck priest lead him to believe there would be millions of pilgrims landing at Knock International to pray.

In fairness, Knock is almost dead centre in the middle of Connacht and is very easy to get to from all parts of Connacht,well maybe with the exception of way back west in Conemara.

If one looks at Sligo for example users of the service would include the populations of Donegal, Sligo, Roscommon and the Western counties of Northern Ireland that wish to travel extended distance to the South, South West and South east of Ireland. (The following extra options would then be available for full WRC, NW to SW, NW to S, NW to SE, W to SW, W to S, W to SE, W to NW, W to N, N to SW, N to S, N to SE.

This is a problem that many Dublin (Leinster, whatever!) people cannot grasp. You do not need to be living right beside a train station for it to be used by you. I recall a Dublin person writing into the Galway Advertiser complaining that there was no Galway-Kildare train service, that he had to get a train to dublin, then back from dublin to Kildare. Talk about spoilt! If I saw I could make that journey by train, I'd be delighted. Normally, when I'm planning a journey, I check the trains and I cant make it!

With respect, Hoof Hearted, you are talking complete bollocks.

Hoof Hearted, That means they cant think of a valid argument:D

Get Tuam Town Council to organise feeder buses from nearby towns and villages if BE won't.

Now there is a big big difference between going from Tuam to Athenry on a bus to going there on a train.

Immediate catchment area??? So most of the 742,877 are within walking distance of the WRC now are they?

Again, you do not need to be living right next to the train station in order to use it. I'm amzed that people would actually think this.

Let's get one thing straight the 750 people daily number is being quoted as if it is a fact. What methodology was used to obtain this number?

I was wondering that myself.

I wouldnt be too supportive of the WRC north of Claremorris either to be honest. But certainly as far as Tuam is neccessary and if it could go to Claremorris, It would allow new routes which is why I think that might be worthwhile.

A question for ye, the existing Westport - Dublin line. How does that fare out with the finances, is it viable???

MarkoP11

nollaig wrote:

IA question for ye, the existing Westport - Dublin line. How does that fare out with the finances, is it viable???

Nope, that said it carries 500k+ per year

road_high

I just have a quick question- the 750 passengers per day figure is being bandied about here- on a yearly basis this equates to 365,750 passengers per annum, which I would imagine wouln't compare to badly with the less busy lines like Tralee/Dublin or Rosslare/Dublin etc.

I don't know the yearly figure for other lines- does anybody know these so we could compare??

nollaig

Nope, that said it carries 500k+ per year

So how many does it need to be viable?

अधिनायक

nollaig wrote:

Again, you do not need to be living right next to the train station in order to use it. I'm amzed that people would actually think this.

Well it does reduce propensity to choose the train. A railway becomes more viable the more full fare passengers travel. If you want to get to a railway station from more than 500m in a depopulated area, you're going to have to drive. So if you drive why not complete the journey by car? Well congestion would be the major reason to abandon your car combined with being able to walk to your destination at the other end and having to pay high parking charges. You need all three to make people switch.

Other than that there would be people without cars such as children, students and old people getting a lift as far as the station and then catching the train. None of these are full fare passengers and there are already 15 buses a day leaving Tuam for Galway. People prefer trains to buses but not when they have to wait 4 hours for the next service.

In 2002, there were 150,00 households in Connacht and 190,000 cars.
http://www.census.ie/census/documents/pser_t18_36.pdf

I doubt there will be anything like 750 passengers a day. Limerick-Rosslare is hardly carrying that in a week.

Rather than pouring 300m down a railway-shaped drain, I'd prefer if the government just sent a cheque for 2K to every household in Connacht the week before Christmas.

Transport21 Fan

Navan Junction wrote:

You know, I stayed clear of the WRC thing because I thought what harm. It's amzing that anyone that wants to comment critically must first apologise.

Did you see how the WDC piece was presented by the Irish Times today. It was almost like an apology or public attonement...and for what? Frank McDonald telling the truth!

On another board a WoT Steering Commitee member has been demanding all debate on the matter stop (typical eh... :rolleyes): . I suspect that they are worried sick that Navan is now a real case for rail investment and has every chance of moving up the T21 food chain and will derail the WRC.

Navan Junction wrote:

Could this be described as infrastructural bullying?

More like trying to get the IE crews and hang onto them so nobody else can have them. WoT are on record as saying they demand one IE engineering crew working south and one engineering crew working north on the WRC at the same time. They know this would swallow up all IE engineering resources, not to mention all the capital investment for rail transport if the economy goes sour. The reverse is also true.

The people who claim there is no conflict between the WRC and other rail projects know this is not true, as there is only limited engineering resources to go around and the only real insurance policy for any of these rail projects getting completed during an economic downturn is get them started ASAP.

This is the real issues here. The WRC can and should wait, in any other normal country it would not even be on the table - the rail projects in the East and Cork cannot wait any longer. I suspect that the Midleton finally getting the go-ahead is worrying to the WRC crowd as the plans and the project itself seems so complicated and in-depth and yet it is a very similar type project as the WRC, but yet on a tiny scale in comparision.

The WRC construction will be huge in comparision and will required gigantic technical and engineering resources wasted in fields filled with cows and sheep while Meath communters are stuck in traffic for 4 hours each day. It would take a sociopath to ignore who is in real need of the social justice.

This is why the WRC has to be put on hold till everything else is completed. This is now becoming an obvious reality to any objective observers.

Schuhart

अधिनाय&#2325 wrote:

I doubt there will be anything like 750 passengers a day. Limerick-Rosslare is hardly carrying that in a week.

Rather than pouring 300m down a railway-shaped drain, I'd prefer if the government just sent a cheque for 2K to every household in Connacht the week before Christmas.

This is the clincher for me. The social benefits to justify this level of subsidy would need to be considerable. But they're just not there.

DerekP11

Best two posts of the day by Navan Junction and Transport21fan. Spot on the money.

And remember that the Navan reopening was promised back in 2000 for a 2010 opening.

As for some pro WRC people on a certain other board, they have necks like a jockeys wotsits. They condemn criticism of all kinds, yet are big supporters of lines such as Ballybrophy-Limerick and Limerick-Rosslare and even Bray - Rosslare. Will they ever wake up to the fact that these operating lines will continue to rot with daft timetables, while the WRC gets a makeover. Its beyond belief.

Maybe its time that P11 told the people of Nenagh, Roscrea, Clonmel, Carrick-on-Suir, Enniscorthy, Wexford etc, that their "OPERATING" railway lines have been conveniently left to the grim reaper, while a dis-used line gets a celebrity appearance on "EXTREME MAKEOVER - RAILWAY EDITION" or maybe "PIMP MY RAILWAY".

So,
Limerick has "commuter" lines lying idle.
Existing lines such as those mentioned above are left to die.
No High-speed intercity on Cork or Belfast lines.

I could go on. Its not even east vs west or anti west. Its a simple case of priority. But a reasoned argument like that sends western natives into a "poor us" frenzy. Any chance you could leave your victim complex at the door and just debate the issue.

The controversy about the WRC has nothing to do with social point scoring. Its more to do with the hard facts and when the hard facts are spelt out by someone like Frank McDonald(who didn't pick them out of thin air) , Meath on Track and Platform 11 (we were first and Im proud of it) the issue is hi-jacked by would-be social engineers, intent on turning it into an east Vs west battle. Railways that actually carry passengers on this island are being killed and starved of a real chance. Reopenings that could make a real difference are less of a priority.

Only in Ireland.

Hoof Hearted

murphaph wrote:

One of the best comebacks I've heard on this forum

Hoof Hearted, you again repeat the (false) mantra that the train will be faster than the bus. How many times do you have to be told that you won't get 100mph running, you'll actually get 50mph running and the train inconveniently avoids many towns along the route which the bus can penetrate.

Your figures for depreciation are crazy, you are making assumptions that cars only depreciate when they are driven! They depreciate just sitting on your driveway and given the relatively high fixed costs of motoring here (tax and insurance) versus the relatively (currently at least) low cost of fuel,it only incentivises car owners to actually use their vehicles for such journeys.

You have effectively accepted that the WRC in it's entirety is NOT a commuter railway. So, fair comparisons can be drawn with the only other non-Dublin centric IC line, Limerick-Rosslare. It provides similar low frequency IC service and has appaling patronage.

The future of rail in Ireland is in commuting.

The Limerick-Waterford rail line is a less than an 80 mile trip which is an example of where the convenience of cars and buses wins and the journey is not that long. (I picked Waterford instead of Rosslare as Rosslare is a small population centre) Now Waterford to Galway (140 miles), for example, with 80 to 90mph capable track and fewer and shorter stops would change the whole equation. And you are right substandard 50mph track with substandard signalling won't cut the mustard. I know some people from Cork that would travel to Sligo if it was a 4 hour train journey time (51mph average (stops included)). i.e [equivalent to 70mph running between stops]
As regards the depreciation, you are right, it depreciates in the drive way, but even for tax purposes the Revenue Commisioners allows businesses to deduct on a per mile basis and not an age basis. Therefore it is a valid method of making comparisons. Let me know if you know someone that lets there car in the driveway with no miles. I rent a car when I need to go someplace not served by rail or often get a taxi, works out way, way cheaper in the long run. You still have to accept the overall cost of making the example trip I gave is still cheaper by rail even if the user already owns a car like many in the West do. And I think even people in the West know that not putting extra miles on their car for long trips is a good thing from both a cost and reliability point of view. As I said before the Dingle to Dublin traveller drives to Tralee and takes the train to Dublin from there because, instinctively, even to "non transport experts" it is the fastest and most comfortable choice and almost as cheap as the bus. I did not take into consideration, Kyoto costs, accident costs, congestions costs which we all pay for in the long run. And these will only get higher as the West grows by 30% in the next 20 years. As I also said before in a post let's wait and see how Ennis-Galway works out. Let's see if there is an uptake by Cork to Galway travellers for example. This is a 145 mile trip which I think would be enough miles for people to consider rail. This of course will be dependent on it promotion by IE, speed (few stops and no waits) and comfort and one connection only. If it is a 150 to 170 minute journey I think people would consider it. My guess a car would do the trip in 250 minutes with the current traffic congestion. Now the question is would you? If not tell me why?

dowlingm

Hoof Hearted - the thing you should note is that since the original WRC was not cleared to 80-90mph then extensive additional structural and signalling work will have to be done to the alignment to reinforce it. MarkoP11 might have the goods on this - wasn't the original IE numbers for Ennis-Athenry to reinstate at 40mph or something crackers? The WRC capital figure is enough for low speed reinstatement but I don't think it runs to 80-90mph.

MarkoP11

Ennis Athenry best possible is in the 60-70mph bracket is the line if rebuilt and signalled accordingly, beyond Athenry you are looking at 50mph tops you might get 60mph in places but with steep hills and sharp bends speeds will be conservative

Its a single line so you will have to add a considerable amount of time in allowance for passing trains at stations, don't forget you will be stopping in every single station every time

It is likely the trains used on the WRC if reopened would be only able to reach 70 mph, best case its a 40 mph average, Ennis Limerick in 40 minutes for 25 miles proves that point

The Limerick Ennis Gort Athenry section makes sense as a intercity link which includes a decent commuter service at each end. There has been a lot of hype about the "success" of the Limerick Ennis service carrying 120-140k a year what the WRC people won't say is half of them then got a train to Dublin. Galway Tuam isn't direct it might just might squeeze a commuter service.

The key here is a decent suburban service around Limerick and between Galway and Athenry thats where the real demand its easy justify the bit in the middle.

DerekP11

Looking at the budget for the WRC and pitting that against the line itself, the best speed obtainable will be 60 mph. From my research, I have been unable to find any faster speeds on any stretch of it. Bare in mind that 60mph could be tops due to the way the line was built. With a relay, including beams, embankments, bridges and level crossings on the existing route, much of it will be 50mph and lower in places. No doubt, if it happens, the current plans from Midleton will have a bearing on it and may shed some light on the work involved. However Midleton is a commuter line. The WRC from Ennis to Athenry is billed as an Inter City line. Regardless of modern work requirements, design etc., the main stumbling block is route the line was built on. It was a low budget flick. Without substantial realignment, it can never be at the same speed levels as other Inter City lines. Take the Sligo line as an example. It was built on the cut beside the royal canal to Mullingar. It follows every curve all the way and this limits the line speed, despite massive investment from IE. (and it was a mainline build by the MGWR) In fact if you look at the existing rail network, you will notice that line speeds are tame on all lines bar the Cork and Belfast lines. This was always the case as they were the premier lines built back in the 19th century. Everything else and especially the WRC was built on the cheap and it got cheaper and cheaper the further off a mainline you got. Modern engineering can only work within the limitations of a route.

These days the IRSC have strict guidelines for things like level crossings and these things are expensive to renew or remove. So the case for high speed running on the WRC is remote. And thats being generous.

Marko seems to share the same view above. Though 70mph looks very limited to even more limited sections. Can't see it myself. Engineers are people and can't perform miracles on a small budget.

monument

DerekP11 wrote:

Any chance you could leave your victim complex at the door and just debate the issue.

Hmm…

Navan Junction wrote:

If you want to know about discrimination look at Meath. The M1 is tolled. The M4 is tolled. The M3 is tolled twice in 15 miles.

Gets better…

Navan Junction wrote:

The people of Kells are going to be severly disadvantaged in years to come because if there is a down-turn in the economy then they will not be able to sell their homes because they will be stuck behind 2 tolls to get to work.

How about a load of buses on those good new roads?

Navan Junction wrote:

The Navan link is. It is the only way for people to get to work.

The only way???

Navan Junction wrote:

According to Work in Meath 98% of Meath's commuters commute to Dublin.

You’d think people would live closer to where they work.

Navan Junction wrote:

And they are being hammered by tolls everywhere. There are 4 tolls in Meath.

Derek, what were you saying about a victim complex?

Navan Junction wrote:

And 2.5hr long journey times to travel 30 short miles.

Did you every think about living in the city?


I think I need to repeat this... Talking rubbish does just what it does for the WRC camp. As far as I’m concerned, most of the posters here can be trusted just about as much as those in the WRC camp.

Both are up to there necks in self-interests, both through out rhetoric and cheap shots as fast as they can. It nearly always “them or us”.

Really, this is a little more important…

the Irish Times wrote:

A full-scale western rail corridor is not absolutely necessary for economic development. But investment in public transport, in roads, in education, in broadband and in high voltage electricity for industry is desperately needed.

The rail corridor has been a smoke-and-mirrors exercise, designed to distract public attention from the larger economic picture and to retain credibility as a general election approaches. The Government parties made promises they could not keep in 2002.

At least until there are plans for the white elephant detailing construction and end services, no more needs to be said.

Rants about how the WRC will take funding from other parts of the country are most likely misleading, and most certainly counterproductive (Madam Editor’s ‘they have to be told’ is also such), it will actually more likely take away from the area it serves (and beyond in the West), with possibly not delivering value for money.

It’s hard to say anything solid about the WRC until there’s more then a few sound bites and the back of an envelope T21 to-do-list.

aliveandkicking

monument wrote:

You’d think people would live closer to where they work.


Did you every think about living in the city?

You really are clueless arent you. Do you actually think born and bred Dubliners choose to live in Meath and Kildare and spend 4 hours a day commuting in their cars? It's out of necessity Monument not choice. Houses are not affordable to many in Dublin.

DerekP11

In all fairness Monument.....

NavanJunctions comments are nothing more than a response/comparison to some of the posts made here from WRC supporters and or western based people who see any questioning of the projects merits as an opportunity to literally embarrass themselves by describing how hard done by they are.

Your dissection of certain quotes smells of smugness and ignorance towards the circumstances that actually exist in parts of this country. (in particular the east)

You may well believe what you type and live close to your place of work, but comments like, " You'd think people would live closer to where they work", are either a misplaced attempt at humour or are very symptomatic of a person who likes making fun of others less fortunate. Of course you may also be a commuter who enjoys driving through endless hours of traffic because there's no public transport alternative.

"Did you ever think about living in the city?"

Another gem from your suitcase of opinions perhaps? Aren't you lucky that you have all the answers and they're easy answers too. Aren't you great, monument. I bet your words of wisdom to us less fortunate made you feel better. Platform 11 or Meath on Track didn't create the chaos that has ensued in the east and resulted in people driving 50+ miles to work. But we do our best to try and highlight possible solutions, Government complacency and the lack of committment from those who have the power to make real change. As for quoting the Times, don't bother, we know what it said. For all you know we were involved in compiling it. I agree that no construction or service details are available in the public domain for the WRC, but that doesn't preclude us from "talking rubbish", as you put it, here or elsewhere. As for "self interests". Not me anyway. Ive nothing to gain personally from criticising the WRC. But I am interested in promoting commonsense for rail development.

I do this on the ground and not the ivory tower that you appear to live in across the road from your job.

monument

A case of devil’s advocacy gone too far or just plain wrong. Apologies.

DerekP11 wrote:

In all fairness Monument.....

NavanJunctions comments are nothing more than a response/comparison to some of the posts made here from WRC supporters and or western based people who see any questioning of the projects merits as an opportunity to literally embarrass themselves by describing how hard done by they are.

It was continuing his ‘one project or another’ crusade. He may say that’s not what he is doing, but it looks quite different. If he flipped what WRC supporters were saying, I did so again with what he was (as I said maybe my devil’s advocacy went too far).

Totally agree with you, the project should be based on its merits.

DerekP11 wrote:

Platform 11 or Meath on Track didn't create the chaos that has ensued in the east and resulted in people driving 50+ miles to work. But we do our best to try and highlight possible solutions, Government complacency and the lack of committment from those who have the power to make real change.

And on that, you do have my sympathy, honestly.

DerekP11 wrote:

As for quoting the Times, don't bother, we know what it said. For all you know we were involved in compiling it.

The section was quoted because I agreed with it. I wasn’t questioning it.

DerekP11 wrote:

But I am interested in promoting commonsense for rail development.

If your last two posts before my last is anything to go by one could only believe you.

I have obviously accidental dived it to something understandably emotive, I hope you might see that you have at least somewhat picked me up wrong (my fault), and that I have no intent to belittle or downplay people’s unfortunate situation.

Transport21 Fan

from Ocean FM.

http://www.oceanfm.ie/onair/sligoleitrimnews.php?articleid=000003039

Irish Times editorial criticised by West on Track member
Jun 12, 3:07 pm

An editorial in the Irish Times newspaper, calling for the funding earmarked for the Western Rail Corridor to be diverted instead to the upgrading of roads in the region has been slammed by a member of the West on Track Committee.

County Sligo-based Peter Bowen Walsh says it's almost as if there's an agenda nationally in some quarters against the prospect of the entire line being re-opened.

The same newspaper released details last week of documents showing the initial scepticism of working group chairman, Pat McCann, at the project being economically viable.

Mr Bowen Walsh says the funding of local roads is a completely different issue than the funding of the Western Rail Corridor.

And he says the doubts over the success of the rail line is similar to that expressed to the opening of Knock Aiport twenty years ago.

Back to the Sligo & Leitrim News index

Metrobest

One thing that should be pointed out in the interest of fairness is that "Madam" or "Sir" rarely writes the editorials in that newspaper. These tend to be written by senior editorial staff and given the nod by the editor as the "voice of the paper". Who was environment editor of the Irish Times again?

nollaig

Quote:
Nope, that said it carries 500k+ per year


So how many does it need to be viable?

Well???

So if you drive why not complete the journey by car? Well congestion would be the major reason to abandon your car combined with being able to walk to your destination at the other end and having to pay high parking charges.

eh, I think you answered your question?

Many people dont like driving long distances. Therefore, the train is an attractive alternative.

अधिनायक

nollaig wrote:

So if you drive why not complete the journey by car? Well congestion would be the major reason to abandon your car combined with being able to walk to your destination at the other end and having to pay high parking charges.

eh, I think you answered your question?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. My question is whether these conditions exist along the WRC towns sufficient to make people switch to train (congestion, expensive parking and walkable distances wihin major destinations).

Many people dont like driving long distances. Therefore, the train is an attractive alternative.

This is an incentive to use a train for long distances but again it leaves you bereft of a car at your destination.

nollaig

This is an incentive to use a train for long distances but again it leaves you bereft of a car at your destination.

eh, Yeah, This is the same for all train journeys.
My point was, many people do not want to drive long journeys. Personally, I dont mnd it but I know of loads of people who rather take a train because the journey would be too tiring for them to drive.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. My question is whether these conditions exist along the WRC towns sufficient to make people switch to train (congestion, expensive parking and walkable distances wihin major destinations).

I'd imagine the only place would be Tuam where people might rather take the train rather than face the traffic on the N17

ishmael whale

nollaig wrote:

So how many does it need to be viable?

This won’t answer your question directly, and I don’t have a direct answer, but hopefully it gives some picture of what’s involved.

The Dunboyne feasibility study linked below involves an investment of 150 million for about 2 million passenger journeys. It is not financially viable, as the fares would leave a small deficit on the operating expenses and hence never repay the investment. However, taking into account the boarder economic benefits of less traffic congestion etc, it is deemed worthwhile.

Crudely, if 2 million journeys justified 150 million, then presumably you’d need of the order of several million journeys to justify the investment in the WRC.

Also the estimate of 300+ thousand looks optimistic. If the Dublin Westport service is only attracting 500+, it’s a big leap of faith to assume that the WRC will attract something comparable. Bear in mind the Limerick Ennis figures are inflated by large numbers of people going Ennis-Limerick-Dublin. You are not likely to find people going Galway-Sligo-Dublin.

http://www.meath.ie/Planning/Clonsilla_M3InterchangeLine/Clon_Dunb_M3FeasibilityReport.pdf