Western Rail Corridor

DerekP11

The above post is a reason why, openness, fresh legs and a willingness to make a worthwhile contribution, in the interests or rail transport, will set the likes of P11 apart from various "lobby" groups.

Should any part of the WRC be built and put into operation, the only team left standing will be P11 and as pointed out, we will be representative of these passengers and any shortcomings that the "service" will provide. I really can't see WOT reinventing itself to represent the "users" they fought so hard to provide a rail service for.

His "Holiness" has hit the nail on the head. What will be, will be. The future can only be predicted by the reality of what is actually happening now and who is in a position to offer any real long term contribution, regardless of what happens.

The above post is perhaps the most sensible addition to this debate, that Ive ever heard. Its contents are worth thinking about.

P11 is not about personal agendas. Its more comfortable with a balanced and realistic approach. The entire idea of making itself an accountable and easily accessible organisation has already contribited to its continued growth. We intend that this growth will be in the area of passenger representation. So its important that we continue to observe plans for future reopenings.

DerekP11

On another thread, the debate on the WRC has beat itself to death. I havent created this thread to reignite that debate as that would be yet another futile exercise. The purpose of this particular thread is to concentrate on the section of the WRC from Claremorris to Collooney. While the section from Ennis to Claremorris has been featured in T21, despite a "doctored" report that contradicts it, I think its worth discussing the much loved and adored portion known as the "Burma Road".

Many of us will remember that Eamonn O'Cuiv, stated that this section would be cleared and fenced off to prevent further destruction and prepare it for any planned reopening. While its generally accepted that this stretch will not happen, it is still a bone of contention to campaigners for the reopening of the entire WRC. I accept that Ennis - Athenry has some potential, if deviations are considered. I would also accept that Tuam - Galway could have potential, if the aforemention deviations were considered. As for Tuam - Claremorris, I'd agree with the "original" McCann report, before it was "nobbled" by someone. Overall, I believe that the WRC project has plenty of time on its side and should get in line. But thats a debate thats been done before.

So, today,(at short notice) I was afforded the opportunity to visit Tubbercurry/Tobercurry (depending on which sign you read). This town lies nearly mid way along the WRC, between Claremorris and Collooney. I decided that I just couldn't visit and not meet up with me oul former P11 buddy, Thomas S.(resident in the area.) We've had our differences and will continue to do so, but our shared passion for the development of sensible rail transport in this country is a bond that can't be ignored. We are both of the same mindset in relation to the WRC, but Thomas actually lives beside it and can see and hear local reaction. This is what sets him apart from some posters that disagree with him.

Off we went on a little trip of this section of the WRC, from Swinford to Tubbercurry. We paid a visit to the site of his infamous "photo", where the line has been turned into a driveway. Its not fake, its real. I seen it with my own eyes. Within a short distance of it, there were more examples.(farm yards etc) By the time we got to Charlestown, it was even more scarier. The line crosses the N17 here. While the station has been cleaned up by a FAS scheme, the approach to it has been "landscaped" under at least 3 feet of grass and incorporated into a car dealership. We talked to locals, all of whom thought the plan to reopen this section was daft. During the course of our ramble in Charlestown, we met a former Director of Knock Airport (retired last year). He was extremely critical of the plan to reopen the WRC north of Athenry and of suggestions of building a spur to Knock Airport! He referred to the existing connecting bus to the airport, as the "ghost bus" with an average of 10 users per day. His attitude regarding this particular stretch of the WRC, is that the money would be better spent on health, including the funds earmarked to fence it off. His reference to the campaigners is too insulting to post including their "protest" that had no more than 20 people at it in Charlestown.

Some may not believe what I have said. But this is the reality that has been hidden from the general public. As a representative of P11 and in line with keeping an eye on proposed rail projects, any further campaigning for this particular section of the WRC is nothing but fantasy. Even the Government didn't ignore this fact and thats why it didn't make T21. But campaigners for the WRC wanted this section prioritised. It won't work and will never work. The line is like a roller coaster. It follows every hill that the N17 follows. Go look at it for yourselves. Its the only way to fully appreciate how bonkers it is.

popebenny16

oh jesus, me head is done in. Could Victor set up a WRC forum all of its own?

monument

One day about a year ago with work I was travelling around a few places around Claremorris (mostly south of it, I think). To be honest the amount of times that day we crossed a rail line made me burst into laughter, making the driver inquire to my sanity.

While it somewhat pains me to advocate road over rail...

Regional disparity found in roads spend allocation
David Labanyi, the Irish Times

Roads investment in the Border-Midlands-Western (BMW) region remains seriously behind projections under the National Development Plan, according to the latest update.

According to a progress report, only 74 per cent of the expenditure assigned for new roads in the BMW region had been spent between 2000 and the end of 2005. However, over the same period, the report found that spending on road projects in counties in the south and east was significantly over budget at 120 per cent.

The Economic and Social Infrastructure Operational Programme Progress Report found that €1.565 billion had been spent in the BMW region over that period, compared with a forecast of a €2.114 billion investment.

In the south and east regions, more than €5.024 billion has been spent on national roads in the five years to 2005, just under a billion more than the €4.177 billion forecast. This is the latest in a series of reports highlighting regional spending disparities under the plan. An independent review of the NDP - prepared by Indecon economic consultants - and published at the end of 2005, also found a sharp differential between the two regions.

etc etc etc
© The Irish Times

spacetweek

monument wrote:

While it somewhat pains me to advocate road over rail...

Regional disparity found in roads spend allocation
<snip>

Okay... but nearly everyone in Ireland lives in the south and east. That's why its allocation is higher, that's how it works.
In the south and east, infrastructure spending is to cater for existing and future demand, but in the BMW, it's to encourage any kind of demand as these areas are undeveloped. Spending on existing and future demand is always going to be more expensive because the scale of what is required is so much greater.

dowlingm

hmmm... when is the fencing supposed to start? Once it reaches the new "driveways" and "gardens" will they be skipped for fear of antagonising the squatters?

monument

Yeah, that would/should have been taken into account at some point in the past. The obvious point that comes from the article is that what was earmarked for the BMW region hasn’t been spent.

The relevance to the WRC is that bringing roads (which will serve many) up to a reasonable standard is far more important to the region then a rail corridor which will serve few. These are roads which are (according to government plans) currently been under funded.

DerekP11

Its interesting to note that roads in the area between the Claremorris and Collooney section of the WRC are very, very poor. The N17 is quite good. Its actually better than the N5, which is a disaster and only good in spots around junctions with places like Swinford or the road to Ballina.(You have to wait until near Longford before it improves) The secondary route from Boyle to Tubbercurry is disgraceful and in general, secondary roads in the region are still a reminder of how things used to be.

There is no doubt that Government spending on roads in this particular region is well below par with other regions in the west. Its certainly not representative of the West of Ireland, though. One could suggest that road development in this region (between Claremorris and Sligo, N17 excepted) is noticeably poor and could be the driving force behind the campaign to reopen this stretch of the WRC. Thankfully and contrary to claims of, "the railway will solve it" mantras, Government thinking is not behind a railway in this region and new road projects would do wonders for this part of the country. Its car orientated and that is because of the settlement patterns that were dictated by one off housing. The real crime and neglect (imposed by Government),in this area, is the slowness of funding improvements to the road network. The region is a car dominated culture because of planning (not unlike much of rural Ireland) and what people might appreciate is some serious spending on the road network as opposed to nearly €200million on a rail line that duplicates the N17, which is earmarked for further investment under T21.

DerekP11

dowlingm wrote:

hmmm... when is the fencing supposed to start? Once it reaches the new "driveways" and "gardens" will they be skipped for fear of antagonising the squatters?

Clearance work on part of this stretch actually started before T21 was announced. Since then additional clearance work has been done and then stopped. Swinford was "cleared". But as off 2 days ago the growth has taken over again and one can only wonder what it must have been like before any initial clearance was undertaken.

Condsidering the "promises" of T21 and statements from Minister O'Cuiv, I am fascinated as to how the "clearance and fencing of the line" will be done. Apart from the obvious upset to those who "aquired the line by default", the money could easily be considered wasteful. As a peice of infrastructure, its a joke and has no role in the 21st century. It didn't actually work in the 19th and 20th centuries to begin with.

Seeing is believing and history has lots to teach us.

corktina

DerekP11 wrote:

Its interesting to note that roads in the area between the Claremorris and Collooney section of the WRC are very, very poor. The N17 is quite good. Its actually better than the N5, which is a disaster and only good in spots around junctions with places like Swinford or the road to Ballina.(You have to wait until near Longford before it improves) The secondary route from Boyle to Tubbercurry is disgraceful and in general, secondary roads in the region are still a reminder of how things used to be.

There is no doubt that Government spending on roads in this particular region is well below par with other regions in the west. Its certainly not representative of the West of Ireland, though. One could suggest that road development in this region (between Claremorris and Sligo, N17 excepted) is noticeably poor and could be the driving force behind the campaign to reopen this stretch of the WRC. Thankfully and contrary to claims of, "the railway will solve it" mantras, Government thinking is not behind a railway in this region and new road projects would do wonders for this part of the country. Its car orientated and that is because of the settlement patterns that were dictated by one off housing. The real crime and neglect (imposed by Government),in this area, is the slowness of funding improvements to the road network. The region is a car dominated culture because of planning (not unlike much of rural Ireland) and what people might appreciate is some serious spending on the road network as opposed to nearly €200million on a rail line that duplicates the N17, which is earmarked for further investment under T21.

you arent right about the N5...it is brill from Castlebar to the outskirts of Chalestown (is that right name?) where a bypass is under construction.....

DerekP11

corktina wrote:

you arent right about the N5...it is brill from Castlebar to the outskirts of Chalestown (is that right name?) where a bypass is under construction.....

I'd rate the N9 as the worst National Primary Route in the country in terms of Inter Urban roads. I'd rate the N5 in second place on the basis of it not being an intercity link. Westport to just before Castlebar is, predominatly, poor. Charlestown to Strokestown is the poorest stretch. I saw no signs of a bypass around Charlestown. On the Longford side a complete realignment has started, but it doesn't appear to be going all the way to Strokestown, thereby leaving a poor stretch of road for now.

corktina

DerekP11 wrote:

I'd rate the N9 as the worst National Primary Route in the country in terms of Inter Urban roads. I'd rate the N5 in second place on the basis of it not being an intercity link. Westport to just before Castlebar is, predominatly, poor. Charlestown to Strokestown is the poorest stretch. I saw no signs of a bypass around Charlestown. On the Longford side a complete realignment has started, but it doesn't appear to be going all the way to Strokestown, thereby leaving a poor stretch of road for now.

that bypass is definately a reality.....started earlier this year.....works visiblke on western side and on N17.....

Andrew Duffy

Second on the N9 - South of Carlow is extremely bad. Passing an oncoming Bus Eireann bus on that road (and there are many) is a harrowing experience.

road_high

DerekP11 wrote:

I'd rate the N9 as the worst National Primary Route in the country in terms of Inter Urban roads. I'd rate the N5 in second place on the basis of it not being an intercity link. Westport to just before Castlebar is, predominatly, poor. Charlestown to Strokestown is the poorest stretch. I saw no signs of a bypass around Charlestown. On the Longford side a complete realignment has started, but it doesn't appear to be going all the way to Strokestown, thereby leaving a poor stretch of road for now.

Well said, it is the worst- the West and their immense political lobby would never have tolerated this poor standard of road for so long like the s east did.
Strange how roads like the N4 and N17 with no huge national significance and few large urban areas, have continously take priority over the N9, and it with the third biggest port in the country at the end..

nollaig

Strange how roads like the N4 and N17 would no huge natioanl significance and few large urban areas, have continously take priority over the N9, and it with the third biggest port in the country at the end..

Can you define national significance? I'm not having a go like, Just curious.

road_high

nollaig wrote:

Can you define national significance? I'm not having a go like, Just curious.

No problem- I'm primarily reffering to access to ports such as Waterford or Rosslare and the roads that serve them and hence serve as corridors for exports and imports of goods to/from other parts of the country i.e they are not just serving local needs.There are thus of national significance for the whole country.

corktina

well, the N17 is the central part of the north south route for the entire west of Ireland and the N4 is one of the main connectors from that route to the Capital, so yes I guess they are pretty insignificant........

nollaig

be honest the amount of times that day we crossed a rail line made me burst into laughter

How many times?

Transport21 Fan

DerekP11 wrote:

Go look at it for yourselves. Its the only way to fully appreciate how bonkers it is.

Just to add what you wrote:

The section is actually "Tuam to Coolooney" and not Claremorris to Coolooney as the shoddy engineering and infestation of level crosses begins as soon as the line heads north out of Tuam. The same company built the whole line north of Tuam to the same appalling standards.

While we at the location of the "faked" photo. The Sligo-Westport and Sligo-Galway N17 bus services went by with about 10 people on each bus. As you saw for yourself the demand is massive...:rolleyes:

My freind from Knock Airport also pointed out that Charlestown and Tubbercurry are a half an hour away form several rail stations on the IE network. "People can get the trains no problem if they need to and the bus service is great, but underused" was his precise quote.

Since you were here the signal box at Tubbercurry has been tragically demolished. It was being used for skanger-drinking, but it was fully restorable and I cannot believe it was knocked down. Tragic really. The ground frame has been dumped beside the Ballina Road level crossing and across from the original site of the signal box a new concrete foundation has been poured. For what I do not know. Be nice to think they are building a replica of the old signal box. The water tower has been bricked up (blocked actually) as well which makes sense as it was cider-party central for the local scumbags. All that is left now of the station is 3 walls of the old platform shelter and the water tower and platforms. It was such a pretty little station and should have been restored like Kiltimagh was.

Finally West-on-Track have put up signs all over the place which read:

"WEST ON TRACK SAYS THANKS TO ALL OUR SUPPORTERS - GOVERNMENT POLICY IS TO FAST-TRACK SLIGO TO ENNIS REOPENING!"

popebenny16

The ground frame has been dumped beside the Ballina Road level crossing and across from the original site of the signal box a new concrete foundation has been poured. For what I do not know.

A new box perhaps, more modern?

markf909

popebenny16 wrote:

A new box perhaps, more modern?

Yeah I think a lot of extra passengers could be carried if the WRC is signalled to modern bi-di signalling with trains running at 90 sec frequencies. Tubercurry will be where the control centre is located

DerekP11

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Finally West-on-Track have put up signs all over the place which read:

"WEST ON TRACK SAYS THANKS TO ALL OUR SUPPORTERS - GOVERNMENT POLICY IS TO FAST-TRACK SLIGO TO ENNIS REOPENING!"

I assume this is based on "the information" from some politician over a few pints in Kiltimagh. On Monday I spoke to some IE managers, one in particular is a WRC supporter. They were all united in saying that the "Burma Road" will not happen.

But you're right about the line between Tuam and Claremorris. It has 18 level crossings and 4 of them cross the existing N17. If this stretch of the N17 is to be upgraded in accordance to T21 as a 2+1 road, no doubt it will have to bridge the line at these locations( or some super level crossings are planned or Maybe the 2+1 stays at just 2 at these points.) This obviously adds to the cost of a road upgrade due to a railway that bordered on a near tram line and was rejected by the McCann report unless its use for feight could save it. Leaving level crossings on an upgraded National primary route like the N17, would classify as a complete joke. The N60 national secondary route already suffers due to the many crossings of the Westport/Ballina line. But then it is only a secondary route.;)

dowlingm

or just dump parts of the old alignment and build new bits alongside the N17 in the same allowance. There's a stretch of subway here that is essentially in the median of a dual carriageway.

then the NRA would pay for the EIS instead of IE

popebenny16

Yeah I think a lot of extra passengers could be carried if the WRC is signalled to modern bi-di signalling with trains running at 90 sec frequencies. Tubercurry will be where the control centre is located

Christ Mark, you wouldnt say that to me in public, why say it here? It was an honest question no need to be so bloody petty. I really am getting fed up with this place.

paulm17781

popebenny16 wrote:

Christ Mark, you wouldnt say that to me in public, why say it here? It was an honest question no need to be so bloody petty. I really am getting fed up with this place.

I think Mark was being sarcastic (maybe you were and I missed it....).

popebenny16

That do be me point Mark. Why be sarky?

paulm17781

popebenny16 wrote:

That do be me point Mark. Why be sarky?

I don't know why I am replying. I don't think Mark's comment was aimed at you, it was going with the joke, I think. That is how I read it anyway.

markf909

paulm17781 wrote:

I think Mark was being sarcastic (maybe you were and I missed it....).

Where's me smileys?
ThomasJ, that post was a joke, not designed to poke fun at you.

po0k

What have trains got to do with Rally?

popebenny16

Okey doke mark, we've got it all sorted out now.... now, we dont, ok, we'll take a break there