Western Rail Corridor

Schuhart

Just milking the point to death.

The announcement of the Interconnector gives another interesting, if crude, comparison. The promotional material says

Together with current investment such as the Kildare Route Project and city centre resignalling, the Interconnector will quadruple the capacity of the Greater Dublin commuter rail network to over 100 million passenger journeys annually.

Taking that ‘quadruple’ to mean something of the order of an extra 70 million passenger journeys, and taking the proposed investment in Ennis Athenry of €75 million for 200k passengers as a benchmark (given that the spreading of the cost over thirty years in each case does not impact relative proportions), would put a ballpart figure of 70 million passengers * €375 per passenger giving a rough figure of €26 billion as comparable expenditure.

In other words, if we were to assign the same value to a GDA passenger as to an Ennis-Athenry passenger, we’d be willing to spend almost the entire Transport 21 budget on IE projects in Dublin. As it turns out, I don’t believe the cost of these improvements will be anything like €26 billion. Interconnector is circa 1 billion.

I think these crude ballpark figures are useful in illustrating why its not really right to describe GDA projects as expensive relative to projects in the regions. The enormous benefits that GDA projects bring mean they work out relatively cheap.

dowlingm

A huge consideration to my mind is the competition with the bus. The Galway-Limerick service by BE means you don't have to wait longer than an hour for a bus. What will be the interval between trains?

For me there is a three fold calculation for comparing journey times between modes
- how long to check in (bus/train about the same)
- how long until the next service
- how long the journey time is

If I arrive at Galway station and I have a choice between waiting 2 hours for a train which will take 15 minutes less time to do the journey against 60 minutes for a bus, I come out 45 minutes ahead if I take the bus. That's why clockfacing on Cork-Dublin is a huge leap forward for Irish Rail.

D'Peoples Voice

Is this "civic_critic" guy for real
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=25389&start=0&sid=
b41fdfa55cd8e356a61fe2269d62fd8b

The western rail corridor linking Derry - Enniskillen - Sligo - Galway - Limerick and Cork would open up the whole north east economically and develop much more regional balance across the island. The connection of the two major deep water ports of Derry and Cork by a high speed link may aid in developing Ireland as a transhipment hub for north atlantic shipping.

corktina

total eyewash.....


.this topic has been very quiet ...time for some more fighting.....:D

Ham'nd'egger

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Is this "civic_critic" guy for real
http://www.politics.ie/viewtopic.php?t=25389&start=0&sid=
b41fdfa55cd8e356a61fe2269d62fd8b

Oh the good old Sligo Leitrim and Northern Counties Railways. (SLNCR)

This curious line ran from Enniskillen to Sligo via the shore of Lough Erne and linked the MGWR and GNR. At the time, it was intended to carry mineral ore and coal but this wasn't to be, it living on the breadline through it's life. It escaped being absorbed into the GSR in 1925 as it crossed the border and it ended up as the last private railway operated company in the country. It was arguably the worst built line in Ireland, with tales of signals being posted on sides of houses and trees in places to save cash, and speeds of over 30MPH impossible given sharp curves and climbs on it's section. So poor was the economic prospects of the line that it was actually more uneconomic to close it than to keep it open; it survived largely on grants from Stormont and Dail Eireann for most of it's last years to enable the carriage of cattle sold from the west for the GNR to forward on to Scotland. When the GNR line into Enniskillen closed in September 1957, it had to close as it's main customer was no more.

dermo88

Careful, or you'll get accused of coming along to "pick fights" (read tell the truth to trainspotters).

I suspect that its a British based Nigel trainspotter with fantasies of long freights bombing through the countryside. I can accept that in the likes of a densely populated region such as the Machester-Milan Industrial axis. But in the context of Ireland, that kind of flow does'nt exist. Inventing a traffic flow that does not exist, beyond the realms of his fertile imagination and hornby trainset does not work either.

A common aspect of the rail enthusiast breed is the vilification of Dr Richard Beeching and Dr CS Andrews. They are demonised to the point of being something lower than Satan himself. It is an immature outlook, especially when viewed in the context of the times that they were in, and the environment that the railways existed in, and the overall economic climate.

Both men were excellent managers, particularly Dr Andrews, who had managed Bord Na Mona and went on to manage RTE. Dr Beeching had come from ICI. Neither were burdened by sentimentality and the desire to modernise, and improve productivity, and as a result the terms and conditions of employment of those that remained was the driving force. They were hated for that. I've read the Beeching report, and even by todays standards, its a superbly well written, analytical piece of work.

Now, looking at the Southern Irish context:

What closed was too slow to fight the roads, too infrequent to get the bus users, and too expensive to attract freight. Nothing could be done to counteract that. The true miracle is that the agony was postponed on so much of that system, such as the North Kerry, Limerick to Sligo, and Mallow to Waterford. It was a slow process of bleeding to death. The potential of the viable part of the system to succeed was hampered by being tortured by token services and operational losses. For example, in March 1976, Gort, Co Galway took 5 Pounds in fares for the ENTIRE month, and that was with one train a day in each direction. That....is appaling.

In Northern Ireland:

There were higher population densities, but it was a much more affluent population. I do not buy into the sectarian argument for one minute. Maybe it did play a part, but in a situation where one side did damage by the statute book and the other by the semtex bomb.....is it worth bothering operating.

A resounding no.

Some of the decisions taken look illogical in todays context. Take the Feb 1965 closure of the Warrenpoint line through Newry (pop 18,000) and the closure of Portadown to Derry, and it looks crazy by todays standards. However, road congestion was not bad at that time, and both routes went through difficult countryside. Too slow to fight, too infrequent to attract, too expensive to succeed.

They also could not afford to inflict staff cutbacks, in the face of an outcry from badly paid unionised staff, and I use those words even in the context of 1960's Ireland. So, close bits, offer generous redundancy packages and pensions, then slowly move on, gradually to the next bit. Instead of cutting jobs and retaining a skeleton crew to operate a more efficient, profitable service.

Had they waited even 10, or 15 years, it would be a different story. But, they could not afford to wait, and the rest of the system had to fight to succeed. Fortunately, most of it did. Thats their real legacy.

It might be a bunch of "bland" multiple units, but thats what does the job, and that gets my bum in a seat.

Ham'nd'egger

Wise words, Dermo.

While I will take umbrage with you on some of the issues in the North (Nobody can say that the Ulster Transport Authority, UTA, had no agenda of anti rail), for the most part railways were closed as they were uneconomic. When the Harcourt Street line closed, it's receipts covered less than one third of it's staff wages before Overtime etc. The WRC held on as it had the cattle trade I referred to of the SLNCR. When CIE got rid of loose coupled trains and the EEC began to regulate meat rendering and slaughtering, cattle trains were no more as meat was cut close to source, so the line closed, as did the North Kerry line. Outside sources saw to the trains as they all but took the market away; same as the beet season is no more.

Transport21 Fan

There is an 18 hole golf course and resort hotel built on the remains of the line a few miles north of Coolooney station. You would be hard pressed to find anything left of the SL&NC anywhere. The rain washed most of it away.

Speaking of the WRC - the Burma Road in South Sligo has been refenced with something like Steve McQueen crashed his motorbike into at then end of The Great Escape. All they need now is the watchtowers with trainspotters working the searchlights to complete the effect.

Speaking of which, has anyone else noticed that the West on Track website has not been updated in months. See, didn't I tell you all a long time ago that they had no interest in the line once the money came in for it. They will not promote it, care nothing for how many people use it, have absolutely no desire to make it a success. These "railway lobbyist" will move on to some new gig now.

Although, having said that, the Limerick-Galway aspect of the WRC was the only part worth a damn and at least WoT help speed that part up. So credit were credit due. Pity the Athenry Peruvian Switchback will discourage passengers from using it ala Ballybrophy. They would be better off running a new Dublin-Limerick service via Ennis and they will get the passengers.

[INSERT: "Palerail!"]

Transport21 Fan

Made an early morning run to Shannon airport and had a look at the WRC progress on the way back. A lot is being done. The track is being lowered below bridges, which is a good idea for the future and concrete sleepers are being installed on some sections, but still wood on others. Perhaps some temp engineering thing.

Looks promising and then you realise that it's really the Limerick to Athenry Junction line and not the Limerick to Galway "corridor" and you get kinda depressed about it again. The Atherny Peruvian Switchback was a lost oppertunity to develop a decent service between the two cities. It's now just a tarted up Nenagh branch really when you think about it and not a "corridor" in any sense.

The scary thing is that if they restore the line to Tuam in the same way they might as well rename the line from Western Rail Corridor to "Limerick, Athenry Junction, Tuam and Galway Connecting Railway". Because that's what'll be and nothing else. Doesn't really go with the image of rapid transit does it? And yet, this is what the regional developmenters asked for and are getting.

As it stands the one part of the WRC which could of been exciting now has a whole sense of inevitable "Failrail" about it. Shame really. Could of been the second busiest line in the country if the curve at Athenry faced Galway.

As usual, no imagination. Useless.

Ham'nd'egger

Transport21 Fan wrote: »

Made an early morning run to Shannon airport and had a look at the WRC progress on the way back. A lot is being done. The track is being lowered below bridges, which is a good idea for the future and concrete sleepers are being installed on some sections, but still wood on others. Perhaps some temp engineering thing.

The track isn't actually being lowered per say. As part of the relaying work, the ballast is being lifted, the bed line is inspected to ensure it is firm and ballast is then relaid and packed. Old trackbed is then relaid onto ballast in parts to allow work trains to bring new sections to be laid as available and appropiate. At some points, the new track may end up lower but it isn't an absolute rule to say it is lower.

I understand your concern about the junction at Athenry but the engineering, planning and finance to build a new layout (It would involve a Railway Order for less than a mile of track) would be exhorbitant, as well as adding on delays in getting the project on hand.

Transport21 Fan

Hamndegger wrote: »

The track isn't actually being lowered per say. As part of the relaying work, the ballast is being lifted, the bed line is inspected to ensure it is firm and ballast is then relaid and packed. Old trackbed is then relaid onto ballast in parts to allow work trains to bring new sections to be laid as available and appropiate. At some points, the new track may end up lower but it isn't an absolute rule to say it is lower.

Ah that makes sense so.

Hamndegger wrote: »

I understand your concern about the junction at Athenry but the engineering, planning and finance to build a new layout (It would involve a Railway Order for less than a mile of track) would be exhorbitant, as well as adding on delays in getting the project on hand.

Sorry, but I can't buy this. There is a difference between reopening a rail line on time to appease local gombees, cute hoors, victim complexs in Mayo and trainspotters in Bury Saint Edmonds - and then reopening a line in such a way that it will pull in your average Joe from Galway and Limerick who wants rapid transit. Haven't WoT marketed the WRC as "the Metro of the West"?

The Athenry Peruvian Switchback is not good enough. Not by a long shot.

Zoney

Transport21 Fan wrote: »

The Athenry Peruvian Switchback is not good enough. Not by a long shot.

I agree, but I do not understand your defeatist attitude towards it - e.g. comments of "FailRail". It's a start to have Ennis-Athenry open at all at all. Once it is, then one can still argue for redoing the junction at Athenry.

Writing off Ennis-Athenry at this stage is akin to those who couldn't see the bigger picture at the foundation of this State and were prepared to knock down the beginnings that there were rather than build on what had been achieved.

Anyways - for Galway, Ennis and Limerick, even the service that there will be with the connection at Athenry will be a welcome addition to the bus service - which despite dual carriageways opening is still limited to 50mph and has to detour into the towns (e.g. as present at Ennis, Shannon, Bunratty). 50mph is pushing it on the old roads in places, and the new northern N18 route will be longer, actually going closer to Athenry just like the railway does. Nevermind traffic jams getting into/out of Limerick and Galway.

dermo88

Unfortunately zoney, he is correct to a degree, and so are you. This is a medium distance Regional railway with potential. But most of the trips on it are going to be in the range where rail has competitive problems, in the 30-100 km trip range. Thats where there is a balance between speed, pricing and frequency and all three elements must be correct. I hate pointing out that Bus Eireann will not be in any hurry to send passengers across the Platform to take the trains, and will be offering a lower fare. Despite your opinions, and they are, after all your opinions, a student, or a commuter short on cash could not care less whether it was a bus or a train, they just want to get from A to B as quickly as possible.

A few additional bypass/avoiding curves, and a few new stations that prevent these reversals and delays are needed throughout the country to speed things up at the likes of Killarney, Ballybrophy and Athenry. Otherwise, they are merely and excuse for a stop off for a cup of tea, pee and chat. Thats not what a modern railway system is about, but I would'nt want to say that on IRN. Plus, they save time and money in the long term. While the initial costs look prohibitive, these investments last for 30 years or more.

Transport21 Fan

Zoney wrote: »

I agree, but I do not understand your defeatist attitude towards it - e.g. comments of "FailRail". It's a start to have Ennis-Athenry open at all at all. Once it is, then one can still argue for redoing the junction at Athenry.

I would love to see the curve reversed at Athenry - but it won't happen for long time if ever.

Do not get me wrong. I am delighted to finally see a passenger service between Limerick and Galway. But not using the same infrastructure which once connected a small port with a fishing town when both these cities have a combined metro area population of about 300,000, coupled with students, tourist and commuters.

When I looked at Athenry, I mostly saw Ballybrophy North and that's Failrail. This is what annoys me about West on Track. There were so obsessed with getting grannies to Knock on free passes, that they completely ignored something as important as a direct Limerick to Galway service.

They only wanted a rail line - a symbol, a gesture from central government and that's what they got and Limerick and Galway have a victorian rail link built to connect a small port with a fishing village and you won't get rapid transit on that.

dermo88

That being the case, could Meathontrack possibly demand the reopening of Navan to Kingscourt first, and then get given Clonsilla to Navan. The analogy being, demand more than you need, and get what you want.

spacetweek

Just to clarify with everyone, when Limerick-Galway opens, will the train arrive at Athenry, the driver head down to the opposite end, and complete the journey to Galway - or will passengers have to get off the train to transfer to some sort of Galway-Athenry shuttle? Surely not? I know they're gonna set up the shuttle aswell, but I presume Limerick services will complete the whole journey?

corktina

interesting isnt it...I could invisage the train running (eventually ) Limerick to Tuam and a Galway to Athernry shuttle to connect to it....but the sensible thing would be to run Galway to Limerick with no change.

Poxyshamrock

So we're nearing the end of 2007 and 2008 is the year the Ennis to Athenry presumably opens. Any signs of it happening in the next 6 months? What's the set date? Are we looking at this time next year or the year after?

Schuhart

spacetweek wrote: »

Just to clarify with everyone, when Limerick-Galway opens, will the train arrive at Athenry, the driver head down to the opposite end, and complete the journey to Galway - or will passengers have to get off the train to transfer to some sort of Galway-Athenry shuttle? Surely not? I know they're gonna set up the shuttle aswell, but I presume Limerick services will complete the whole journey?

I was slagging off the WRC on another board (as you do) and someone quoted West On Track as saying that there would be direct Galway Limerick trains - presumably by the driver heading down the opposite end. I'm not sure where this would fit in (ultimately) with Tuam.

D'Peoples Voice

Seeing as how the Government are facing a tough budget........
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhmhgbgbidey/
Work gets underway today on Western Rail Corridor
16/11/2007 - 07:40:18

Work is due to get underway today on the first phase of the Western Rail Corridor.

The €106m redevelopment of the Ennis to Athenry line will pave the way direct rail services between Limerick and Galway from 2009.

The work is part of the Government's Transport 21 plan.

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey and the Minister for Rural Affairs, Eamon O Cuiv, will be in Galway today to mark the start of the construction phase.

dodgyme

Its great news that this is finally going ahead, the west has lamented the passing of the line since the day it closed. Hopefully we can see more progress on the navan/Pace line also now.

paulm17781

dodgyme wrote: »

Its great news that this is finally going ahead, the west has lamented the passing of the line since the day it closed.

Indeed. I can't wait to see the overcrowded trains it will have from day one.

loyatemu

work has been underway for some time - there are pictures of the new track up on Irishrailwaynews.

Chris_533976

Yup, this is getting pushed and Midleton is slipping further and further behind schedule.

Ham'nd'egger

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Yup, this is getting pushed and Midleton is slipping further and further behind schedule.

Middleton isn't due to open until 2008 at the earliest.

As it stands, construction work to eliminate level crossings on the line should have been taking place for some time now. In any case, there is not much point in carrying out any more work on the section until this is completed, stations prepared and there is rolling stock available to work the line when ready (This will be possible when 22000 railcars are brought into service). Also, permanant way staff and signalling crews will be freed up from work on improvement to Portarlington and Rosslare (This has to take priority to improve speeds on traffic to the south and west) in the new year so no work can be carried out until some staff are freed.

Tipsy Mac

Saw this on the 6 O Clock news, would have been an idea to have built 2 lines of track while they were at it but I suppose you vote for $hite you get $hite.

Navan Junction

Hamndegger wrote: »

As it stands, construction work to eliminate level crossings on the line should have been taking place for some time now.

Any idea why this hasn't happened?

Hamndegger wrote: »

there is not much point in carrying out any more work on the section until this is completed, stations prepared and there is rolling stock available to work the line when ready (This will be possible when 22000 railcars are brought into service).

So when do you think work should restart?

corktina

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Saw this on the 6 O Clock news, would have been an idea to have built 2 lines of track while they were at it but I suppose you vote for $hite you get $hite.

far more important lines like Dub to Galway and Sligo and more are only single lines......lets not get carried away...we're wasting enough cash as it is!

Ham'nd'egger

Navan Junction wrote: »

Any idea why this hasn't happened?


So when do you think work should restart?

Point one, Navan; tenders were asked for in May last year but Martin Cullen only signed the Railway order this April gone. As a consequent, work on the line would and could only begin upon siging of same. From what I can gather, the Minister took his time in signing the order for reasons best known to himself; while some tenders had to be re-issued due to "clarification"(Irish Rail's words, not mine) required on same.

Point two; this was advertised (again) this August but no winner of same has been announced as of yet. The contracts for work on the line stipulated for completion 14 months after awarding of same; this also included work for new stations on the line. Irish Rail will signal and lay new trackwork so I'd guess, I dunno, maybe 2 years from today?

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/11540709?view=Eircomnet&cat=Top Stories

Rail corridor on track - Dempsey
From ireland.comSaturday, 17th November, 2007

There are no plans to alter commitments in Transport 21 to extend the western rail corridor service to Sligo, according to Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey. Lorna Siggins, Western Correspondent, reports.

Mr Dempsey said he would love to speed up all planned public transport projects given the increase in the number of people driving to work.

He and the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Éamon Ó Cuív, yesterday marked new track-laying on the Ennis-Athenry section of the western rail corridor at Craughwell, Co Galway.

The rail corridor is still on target for opening between Limerick and Claremorris, Co Mayo, in 2014, with a service between Limerick and Galway due to start in spring 2009, according to CIÉ.

Census figures published this week show a 2 per cent rise in five years in the numbers of people driving a car to and from work - up from 55 per cent in 2002 to 57 per cent.

Mr Dempsey said one of the difficulties encountered in Transport 21 commitments had been the "slow start-up".

"We haven't been used to doing major projects like these ones, but I think over the next couple of years we'll be able to accelerate the progress."

The €106.5 million redevelopment of the western rail corridor, billed by the Government as the largest infrastructural project of its type under Transport 21, will involve several new stations in Clare and south Galway.

It will involve renewal of 36 miles of track, along with installation of points, crossings and other repair and improvement work.

Reopening of commuter services on the route and initiation of new stations at Sixmilebridge, Gort, Ardrahan, Craughwell and Oranmore "demonstrates the continued growth and development of the Limerick and Galway gateways", Mr Dempsey said.

The last train between Limerick and Galway ran 31 years ago. Galway West TD Frank Fahey, who attended yesterday's event at Craughwell, recalled how he was a "young councillor from Gort" when he witnessed that piece of history in April 1976.

Fr Micheál Mac Greil, patron of the West-on-Track campaign, was also present in Craughwell yesterday to welcome "relaying work on phase one" of the corridor between Ennis and Athenry.

"Iarnród Éireann is to be warmly congratulated for the professional and speedy manner in which it is progressing the project," his campaign said in a statement.