Western Rail Corridor

Ste.phen

corktina wrote: »

far more important lines like Dub to Galway and Sligo and more are only single lines......lets not get carried away...we're wasting enough cash as it is!

Crappy preexisting infrastructure is no excuse for continuing that trend

corktina

with modern signalling i would say a single line is quite adequate for the Sligo and Galway line (and no line at all would be adequate for the WRC).

BrianD

I've never seen the WRC as a priority especially as major projects such as the "Connolly bottleneck" get long fingered.

Having read the article in the Times today especially the lengths of track involved, it seems to me that rebuilding this line probably isn't that expensive at all. It's single track, no huge signalling requirements. I can almost see what's going to happen next. IR will build it on time, there will be a grand opening, Governmnet pats itself on the back and then IR run one train a day as a token service. Government blame IR for lack of service when in reality the Government have no plan whatsoever as to what service should be delivered as a service on the line. Typical!

Zoney

BrianD wrote: »

then IR run one train a day as a token service.

There are already eight services a day each way Limerick-Ennis, with most connecting through to Limerick-Dublin services.

I don't see that it will be any different for Ennis-Athenry really.

BrianD

I may have been exaggerating for effect there! Having said that, what is the publics current expectations of the service that will be delivered and what have the Goverbnment stated the service levels will be?

Navan Junction

Zoney wrote: »

There are already eight services a day each way Limerick-Ennis, with most connecting through to Limerick-Dublin services.

I don't see that it will be any different for Ennis-Athenry really.

Zoney, do you know if these services will become Galway-Limerick service? That would make sense, no?

There should be a real attempt to maximise traffic on the line. I hope IÉ treat it seriously.

The first reopening under Tranport 21 will impact other subsequent reopenings.

1huge1

Well I assume there would be more demand for a Limerick-Galway train than the current Limerick-Ennis train so ya im sure the services will become integrated.

In saying that the ennis train gets a lot of business (commuters etc)

westtip

paulm17781 wrote: »

Indeed. I can't wait to see the overcrowded trains it will have from day one.

your cyncism is quite right. One man and his dog on the lunctime train from Claremorris to Athenry (If there is a lunchtime train) With the improved Western Road corridor, just think what the money being spent on this complete waste of time (WRC) could do for good quality subvented bus service We all know the bit West on Track talk about from Sligo to claremorris will never happen (and never should). West on track need to wake up to the realities of modern irish rural living - which is, like it or not totally car dependent - and the only form of public transport to remove that dependency is frequent (and subvented) local bus services. The WRC will have (I would imagine) no more than 2 trains a day running up and down it, and please don't try and tell me there is a market for 6 trains a day - we have only just got 5 trains a day from Dublin to Sligo - so please spare me that kind of BS. As it appears the WRC is now rather foolishly going ahead to satisfy a minority pressure group - in the form of phase one from Claremorris to Limerik via Athenry, then the group should accept the defacto WRC from Ballina to Limerick is all that is needed. The 47 miles from Collooney (Sligo/Dublin line) to Claremorris will be the ultmate white elephant (and before the bleaters come on - please don't give me the knock airport arguments, an airport in the west such as Knock is not comparable to the unnecessary WRC)......

Westtip

Zoney

Westtip:

Limerick-Galway is a more major transport corridor than Sligo-Dublin (considering rail in particular where Galway-Dublin traffic doesn't use the same route). Comparing Dublin-Sligo with Limerick-Galway is apples and pears. Yes Dublin is far larger, but Sligo is a town not a city. The distance of Dublin-Sligo is over twice as long as Limerick-Galway. Ennis is a town of larger population than Sligo, and far closer to Limerick/Galway than Sligo is to Dublin, with commuters between the town and both cities, nevermind Limerick-Galway traffic.

Is it at all surprising then for Galway-Limerick to probably have more train services on a relatively short regional and commuter route than a longer-distance lightly-trafficed town-city route? The N18 route will in just a couple of years have dual carriageway, while the N4 will not be DC all the way to Sligo, because it isn't needed.

I can understand people being put out about the WRC north of Athenry, but I can only put it down to regional prejudice for people to be complaining about Galway and Limerick being linked by rail. One would think from the diatribes that they were two sráidbhailes with nothing in between, Ennis being just a couple of farms or something. One really has to wonder if these detractors have ever been to Galway, Ennis or Limerick, or sat on hour long tailbacks through Gort or into/out of Limerick or Galway (fun on the Ennis side of Limerick just this weekend - people were stuck over an hour!).

loyatemu

Zoney wrote: »

Westtip:

Limerick-Galway is a more major transport corridor than Sligo-Dublin (considering rail in particular where Galway-Dublin traffic doesn't use the same route). Comparing Dublin-Sligo with Limerick-Galway is apples and pears. Yes Dublin is far larger, but Sligo is a town not a city. The distance of Dublin-Sligo is over twice as long as Limerick-Galway. Ennis is a town of larger population than Sligo, and far closer to Limerick/Galway than Sligo is to Dublin, with commuters between the town and both cities, nevermind Limerick-Galway traffic.

Is it at all surprising then for Galway-Limerick to probably have more train services on a relatively short regional and commuter route than a longer-distance lightly-trafficed town-city route? The N18 route will in just a couple of years have dual carriageway, while the N4 will not be DC all the way to Sligo, because it isn't needed.

I can understand people being put out about the WRC north of Athenry, but I can only put it down to regional prejudice for people to be complaining about Galway and Limerick being linked by rail. One would think from the diatribes that they were two sráidbhailes with nothing in between, Ennis being just a couple of farms or something. One really has to wonder if these detractors have ever been to Galway, Ennis or Limerick, or sat on hour long tailbacks through Gort or into/out of Limerick or Galway (fun on the Ennis side of Limerick just this weekend - people were stuck over an hour!).

some valid points there and I'm sure there is a market for LMK-GAL rail services but I still doubt they'll be as busy as the Sligo-Dublin service.

The reason all the radial services are busy is because they go to Dublin - it doesn't really matter where the other end of the line is. Not only is Dublin the biggest city (by a huge margin) but its the capital and its where everything is, and where huge amount of non-Dubliners work. I'd imagine a significant proportion of Ennis-Limerick passengers are also travelling onwards to Dublin.

Victor

Do I get he impression all the stations will be unmanned?

http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/news_centre/general_news.asp?action=view&news_id=266

Western Rail Corridor - New Track Laying Begins by Corporate Communications

LAYING OF NEW TRACK BEGINS FOR WESTERN RAIL CORRIDOR
LIMERICK-GALWAY DIRECT RAIL SERVICES IN 2009

One of the most significant stages in the development of the Western Rail Corridor is underway, as the work of laying new track on the route has begun.

Direct rail services between Limerick and Galway will begin running in 2009 upon completion of the €106.5 million redevelopment of the Ennis-Athenry line, phase 1 of the wider Western Rail Corridor project under Transport 21. Minister for Transport, Noel Dempsey T.D. and CIÉ and Iarnród Éireann Chairman, Dr John Lynch visited Craughwell today, where trackwork has commenced, to see the progress on investment.

After a gap of over 30 years since the last scheduled services on the line, the Ennis to Athenry renewal will:
- Deliver direct, regular Galway to Limerick services, timed to meet commuter needs
- Serve Limerick, Ennis, Athenry and Galway; and new stations at Sixmilebridge, Gort, Ardrahan, Craughwell and Athenry Oranmore
- Expand commuter links to Limerick and Galway
- Provide, with connections, a range of inter-regional services currently not available, through linking with Limerick-Dublin and Galway-Dublin services
- Promote balanced regional development, in line with National Spatial Strategy objectives, by linking two Gateways – Limerick and Galway – and serving the hub of Ennis

The investment project to be delivered involves:
- renewal of 36 miles of track, including all necessary fencing and drainage and installation of points and crossings at Gort and Ennis.
- a 90m platform with furniture, signage, shelter, Automatic Ticket Vending Machine, lighting, car park, PA, Customer Information Systems, help point and CCTV provision will be provided at Sixmilebridge, Gort, Ardrahan, Craughwell and Oranmore. These stations will also be accessible to the mobility impaired
- At Ennis and Athenry stations, PA, Customer Information Systems, help point and CCTV will be provided
- Repair and improvement work will be undertaken on bridges on the route to allow rail services to operate
- modernised signalling systems
- improvement to level crossings, and elimination where practicable

CIÉ and Iarnród Éireann Chairman, Dr. John Lynch said today “we are delighted to reach this key phase in the reintroduction of Limerick to Galway services, with the beginning of trackwork on the Ennis to Athenry line. This project under Transport 21 will see us expanding our network to deliver truly national and inter-regional services. With expansion also planned on all of our existing Intercity routes, we will deliver the quality, comfort and frequency that will see our passenger numbers continue to increase dramatically from what is already a record high, maintaining our status as Europe’s fastest growing rail service.”

Minister Dempsey speaking in Craughwell today said: "The commencment of track laying on this section of the Western Rail Corridor from Limerick to Galway is a major step forward in the development of the heavy rail network planned under the Government's €34 billion Transport 21 programme.

The re-opening of commuter services along this route and the introduction of new stations at Sixmilebridge, Gort, Ardrahan, Craughwell and Oranmore demostrate the continued growth and development in the Limerick and Galway gateways. The service will begin operation in 2009 which is welcome news for commuters. I look forward to the continued development and roll out of the Western Rail Corridor and the other rail projects as outlined in Transport 21.

Under the Transport 21 programme Ireland will have the most modern Rail service in Europe. The development of Intercity and commuter rail services across the country will provide people with a real public transport alternative to the car and that makes real sense for everyone."

The Limerick to Galway service will also feed into expanded Intercity services between Limerick and Dublin, and between Galway and Dublin. Both routes are set for hourly services at peak, and two hourly off-peak by the end of 2008.

Scheduled passenger services between Limerick and Galway last operated in April 1976. The reopening of Ennis to Athenry and subsequent sections of the Western Rail Corridor are mirrored elsewhere in Transport 21, with expansion of the national network also planned for Midleton in Co Cork, and Dunboyne and Navan in Co Meath.

More information on the project is available by phoning lo-call 1890 656591 or email wrc@irishrail.ie

markf909

Under the Transport 21 programme Ireland will have the most modern Rail service in Europe.

Great news!

Those continental types will be jealous.

galwayrush

markf909 wrote: »

Great news!

Those continental types will be jealous.

Oh definitely/:rolleyes:

John R

That'll be in the same way we had the most modern telecoms network in Europe at a time when Eircon's best offering was giving me lightning fast dial-up internet access at a guaranteed 0kb/s. I had to pay some Italian company €100s and recreate the Jodrell Bank in my back garden to get a poor approximation of what other European countries were giving away free with phone hookups.

The economy may be on the wane but BullshítIreland is still riding high.

Tadhg17

Navan Junction wrote: »

Zoney, do you know if these services will become Galway-Limerick service? That would make sense, no?

There should be a real attempt to maximise traffic on the line. I hope IÉ treat it seriously.

The first reopening under Tranport 21 will impact other subsequent reopenings.

I enquired about Ennis-Galway train services on Friday at Ennis train station and was told that they are planning on having the Limerick to Galway route open by March 2009. There will be seven train services a day each way and the current trains serving Limerick-Ennis will continue onto to Galway and return to Limerick. They will also connect with Galway-Dublin and Limerick-Dublin trains. Some trains will also continue onto Limerick Junction as happens now with Ennis-Limerick trains that dont connect with a direct service to Dublin in Limerick.

There are currently 9 train services each way on the Ennis-Limerick route daily.

I asked about Sixmilebridge railway station being re-opened and Clare County Council have not decided yet whether to re-open the old railway station or build instead on council land nearby where they would be more space.

westtip

Zoney wrote: »

Westtip:

Limerick-Galway is a more major transport corridor than Sligo-Dublin (considering rail in particular where Galway-Dublin traffic doesn't use the same route). Comparing Dublin-Sligo with Limerick-Galway is apples and pears. Yes Dublin is far larger, but Sligo is a town not a city. The distance of Dublin-Sligo is over twice as long as Limerick-Galway. Ennis is a town of larger population than Sligo, and far closer to Limerick/Galway than Sligo is to Dublin, with commuters between the town and both cities, nevermind Limerick-Galway traffic.

Is it at all surprising then for Galway-Limerick to probably have more train services on a relatively short regional and commuter route than a longer-distance lightly-trafficed town-city route? The N18 route will in just a couple of years have dual carriageway, while the N4 will not be DC all the way to Sligo, because it isn't needed.

I can understand people being put out about the WRC north of Athenry, but I can only put it down to regional prejudice for people to be complaining about Galway and Limerick being linked by rail. One would think from the diatribes that they were two sráidbhailes with nothing in between, Ennis being just a couple of farms or something. One really has to wonder if these detractors have ever been to Galway, Ennis or Limerick, or sat on hour long tailbacks through Gort or into/out of Limerick or Galway (fun on the Ennis side of Limerick just this weekend - people were stuck over an hour!).

My point is really against the link from Claremorris to Sligo which cannot be justified by any stretch of the imagination either on passenger numbers it is likely to have or on the cost of doing this stretch of line - which was identified four years ago as the most expensive part of the line to upgrade. - I have argued long and hard before on this very thread about this issue - in fact proposed this part of the line would bring in more revenue and visitors to the area as a long distance cycle/walking track. I sincerely hope the galway limerick route does work - but if it does it is not an argument to open up claremorris Sligo ie the northern WRC. In fact I think if Ballina campaigned for the WRC to be defacto - Ballina/Claremorris and all points south it would be doing itself a favour, and would be a good compromise for WOT to accept as a Western Rail Corridor.

Zoney

westtip wrote: »

I sincerely hope the galway limerick route does work - but if it does it is not an argument to open up claremorris Sligo ie the northern WRC. In fact I think if Ballina campaigned for the WRC to be defacto - Ballina/Claremorris and all points south it would be doing itself a favour, and would be a good compromise for WOT to accept as a Western Rail Corridor.

Fair enough. That is pretty much what the official line was/is. I.e. reopen Ennis-Athenry. Think about Athenry-Tuam medium term (i.e. later than Navan), perhaps even to Claremorris (if you're bothering about connecting to Tuam at all) in order to link to Ballina. Then leave Claremorris-Sligo on the long finger but have the State hold on to the corridor (keeping long-term options open is not the same as support for reopening).

westtip

Zoney wrote: »

Fair enough. That is pretty much what the official line was/is. I.e. reopen Ennis-Athenry. Think about Athenry-Tuam medium term (i.e. later than Navan), perhaps even to Claremorris (if you're bothering about connecting to Tuam at all) in order to link to Ballina. Then leave Claremorris-Sligo on the long finger but have the State hold on to the corridor (keeping long-term options open is not the same as support for reopening).

Zoney this is my point there is absolutely no honesty about the issue of Claremorris - sligo - the likes of O'Cuiv play ball with WOT by saying oh yes in the long term this is what is going to happen saying what they want to hear for political reasons - and being in reality completely dishonest about he reality of life - we all know full well it won't reopen and for good reason there simply will not be the demand for it and it is the most expensive part of the WRC to open, I refer to the McCann report on this issue of (I think) four years ago. We could have a long distance walkway on this track for a fraction of the price and it would deliver a piece of tourism infrastructure which would benefit the whole region, but unfortunately in the west we suffer from the kind of pressure groups that say anything to be done with the word west in must be good. WOT are really "off the rails" with this one - and it annoys me when they claim to represent the views of the people of the west of ireland - they don't speak for all of us. Navan needs its fast rail link, tubercurry doesn't it is as simple as that.

Victor

Actually, didn't some minister actually say something along the lines of "yes it will be reopened when the councils put their plans / get their acts together".

trellheim

Bet those people who've :cool: built driveways across it are quaking

westtip

trellheim wrote: »

Bet those people who've :cool: built driveways across it are quaking

Or those who have integrated the railway line into their back gardens - which is pretty much the case for a row of houses about two miles from Colooney railway station where the new "major interchange" (sic) between the WRC northern line and the Sligo/Dublin line will take place.

Reality check please. The Claremorris/Sligo line is a complete non runner, politicians know it, the engineers know it,the councils know it, the dogs on the street know it. but something useful could be done with the alignement it just needs a bit of honesty in government.... ha ha

trellheim

Ah gwan post a Gmaps sat link for the giggle

rekrow

Victor wrote: »

Do I get he impression all the stations will be unmanned?

I don't see the stations being unmanned as an issue. It is interesting to read in this article that they estimate spring 2009 as the date services will start. Will all the stations be up and running at that point? I went from Athenry to Labane the other day and could not see any sign of work starting on a station/platform at Craughwell, Ardrahan or Oranmore. Does anyone have any details of where the stations will be located in these villages?

I do hope the WRC is a success after all the campaigning but my fear is that there is very little around the rail lines to support many users. For example the line from Athenry to Galway is very sparsely populated. At Oranmore there is a very busy dual carriageway between the village/town and the railway. Ardrahan and Craughwell are relatively small. Towns like Bearna, Moycullen and Claregalway have seen far higher numbers of houses built and they won't benefit at all. Very poor strategic planning. Also having one stop in the city centre won't do much for passenger numbers. Places like Ballybrit, parkmore with thousands of employees won't benefit. My 2p worth is that there should be a spur off at Oranmore with a stops at M6 P+R (serving Athenry), Galway airport (serving Monivea), South of Claregalway with P+R(cue relief road Serving North Galway), Parkmore, Ballybrit, Liosbaun/Mervue and finishing at NUIG (or Knocknacarra). Total run about 16 to 20kms most if not all greenfield.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=13871873033302756885,53.279380,-8.926077%3B6275707881598201165,53.316721,-8.941744%3B14624945924790632095,53.326397,-8.960651&saddr=N18+%4053.279380,+-8.926077&daddr=Lydican+Rd%2FN18+%4053.316721,+-8.941744+to:Unknown+road+%4053.326397,+-8.960651+to:53.282151,-9.065094&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=3&sz=13&via=1,2&sll=53.296004,-9.034538&sspn=0.048632,0.116043&ie=UTF8&ll=53.300313,-8.982353&spn=0.097254,0.232086&z=12

Roughly along this route. I think this would be a far better investment than restoring Athenry to Claremorris. Don't get me wrong I admire the effort that the people involved in the WRC have put into getting it on the adjenda, I just hope it can have a real impact. At the very least Galway co. council need to put a freeze on all development that is not along the Galway/Oranmore/Athenry line.

Zoney

rekrow wrote: »

I do hope the WRC is a success after all the campaigning but my fear is that there is very little around the rail lines to support many users. For example the line from Athenry to Galway is very sparsely populated.

It's more about Limerick-Galway and Ennis-Galway traffic. If there isn't much of this, then why is there a dual carriageway being built along much the same route? (new N18 will even meet the new N6 near Athenry)

Ennis is larger than Sligo - the latter has an entire railway line crossing half the country to Dublin for itself. Limerick and Galway are far far smaller than Dublin, but the line will be half the length of the Sligo line and with Ennis midway.

invincibleirish

Saw this on a thread on Archiseek:

---

Here is how, when completed, this "rapid" rail corridor will function:

8 times a day a train will leave Clairemorris and make its way to Galway via Athenry. Between Clairemorris and Tuam it will cross over the N17 at grade no less than 3 times.

It will then reverse out of Galway and return to Athenry and REVERSE again and make its way to Limerick.

Then it will REVERSE once more and make its way to Lim Junction.

and 8 times a day another train will do the same absurd dance in the reverse direction.

Average running speed 35 MPH.

http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=6803&page=4

So tell me, will this encourage people to leave their cars?

Ham'nd'egger

invincibleirish wrote: »

Saw this on a thread on Archiseek:


http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=6803&page=4

So tell me, will this encourage people to leave their cars?

The understanding I have is somewhat different from this observation.

The 8-9 services a day from Limerick-Ennis will run through to Limerick-Athenry. Some of these services will run to Galway, others will run to Tuam, and in time, Ballina; the long term plan allows an option to replace it's branch service with a through train to feed the main Dublin-Westport services. There was a direct Ballina-Limerick service until 1975 which did meet so the precedent is there; it also has the effect of opening up Mayo to Galway and the mid west, as well as increasing greatly the catchment area to Dublin trains to and from both Westport and Galway. There will not be any reversals involved in most of these trips. Services going to Galway will meet through trains at Athenry. Some of these may be extended to Athlone in order to take out some of the stops on Dublin-Galway services and speed up services.

Should a train need to be "reversed"; the driver flicks a few switches, walks less that 100 metres, hops into the other cab. flicks it on and starts driving. This takes about 2 minutes tops

Schuhart

Average running speed 35 MPH.

Surely this is the key point. We're paying a lot of money for an unattractive service.

Zoney

Schuhart wrote: »

Surely this is the key point. We're paying a lot of money for an unattractive service.

Sitting on a cramped bus while you slowly enter Limerick or Galway isn't attractive. Not great in a car either.

Also, buses are limited to 80km/h despite the new road being motorway, the new road is longer, *and* they have to detour to serve Gort, Ennis, Shannon, etc. Any faffing about the train service does will be less awkward than that.

So Limerick-Galway train service will probably be quite attractive as a public transport option.

Chris_533976

I really doubt the buses will use the new road in any way shape or form

What BE should do is have express buses that only stop in Limerick and Cork. That would be better, and would keep the bus viable once the various motorways open. The biggest problem with BE and Citylink at the moment is that they divert into effing Ennis, which takes 30 minutes longer than it ever should.

Schuhart

Zoney wrote: »

Sitting on a cramped bus while you slowly enter Limerick or Galway isn't attractive. Not great in a car either.

Also, buses are limited to 80km/h despite the new road being motorway, the new road is longer, *and* they have to detour to serve Gort, Ennis, Shannon, etc. Any faffing about the train service does will be less awkward than that.

So Limerick-Galway train service will probably be quite attractive as a public transport option.

I'm unconvinced that a service with an average speed of 35 miles an hour will be attractive compared to road.

Not that it matters, as the damn thing is being built and will be spun as a success, no matter how paltry the passenger numbers. They'll just add them up over a long enough period to make it look like a big number, like they do with Limerick Ennis.