Western Rail Corridor

KC61

paulm17781 wrote: »

Ah good. Extra subsidy to flog a dead horse.

Eh, normal business practice to promote a new product/service.

invincibleirish

Hamndegger wrote: »

600+ people in and back out between just two stations actually isn't too bad at all. Outside of Dublin's commuter lines, the figures would compare well for a shuttle service between two set points. This number will increase when the line to Athenry opens along with the extra stations.

600 spread over 10 return services suggests to me a lot of empty trains shuttiling between Limerick/Ennis.

Cobh/Cork/Mallow i cant find figures for but im pretty certain from personal experience they are high. Mornings and Evenings on the Cobh line tends to mean people standing.

Tadhg17

invincibleirish wrote: »

600 spread over 10 return services suggests to me a lot of empty trains shuttiling between Limerick/Ennis.

Cobh/Cork/Mallow i cant find figures for but im pretty certain from personal experience they are high. Mornings and Evenings on the Cobh line tends to mean people standing.

I have been on the train between Ennis and Limerick during the day a few times and numbers were between 30-50. Morning and evening services are pretty much full. On Friday, trains are alot busier with people coming back for the weekend and with the direct Dublin Heuston-Ennis service friday evening.

People are standing on the Cobh services morning and evening you state but that is with alot of intermediate stops on that line. There are none on the Ennis-Limerick line.

Are there any passenger numbers released just showing Cobh station-Cork on a daily basis?

paulm17781

KC61 wrote: »

Eh, normal business practice to promote a new product/service.

Normal businesses intend to make money. This never will.

KC61

paulm17781 wrote: »

Normal businesses intend to make money. This never will.

I'm not going to enter the debate as to the whys and wherefores of the WRC, as it is not something I really wish to get embroiled in.

Given however that the WRC is happening I will however certainly give my opinion on operational matters, such as potential timings and fares.

On any new route/service public transport companies will always offer an initial promotional fare in order to gain business and increase awareness of the service. An OP asked had the fares been decided, and I answered in the negative, but stated that promotional fares would be likely. This is an industry norm and I would expect that this line would be no different.

rekrow

invincibleirish wrote: »

Are there many Commuters going to Limerick from north of Ennis, and many Galway/Limerick Commuters? (who arent already using the hourly 51 bus or driving?)

if bus and train are taking the same time, going from the same place in Limerick to the same place in Galway, and assuming Bus is cheaper, then who is going to use the train?

I think there seems to be a huge gap between what the West on Track proposal was and what the government/rpa/irish rail are implementing. I'd say there are probably enough commuters each way to fill a mini bus. As for train times, the same as the road, the fact that the route is going to Athenry first is going to erode the time savings. Even if you were commuting from Limerick or Galway getting to the train station and parking would off further set any time saving. I would like to think that the government/Galway co. co. strategy is to focus Athenry as a new major urban centre and stop all development that is not along the rail corridor. If you had a major business park in Athenry it could take feeds from Oranmore, Ardrahan, Gort, Ballinasloe, and Tuam in a relatively short period of time. What annoys me is the that the WRC can now be used by politicans as an indication of the progress they are delivering for commuters. There has been huge development in parts of West and North Galway and they open up a rail line serving the South and East! The should have been zoning land around Ardrahan, Gort and areas where there will be stops and developing a large industrial/commercial centre in Athenry. As for Oranmore all the development in the town has developed south of the Dual Carriageway into Galway when the existing train line is North of it. Where is the logic? I'd say they will get the usual IE traffic profile on this line trains full friday and sunday and ghost trains for the rest of the week. But it will have very little impact for commuters around Galway unless there is a major shift in emphasis of zoning. Of course it is probably 10 years too late!

Tadhg17

invincibleirish wrote: »

Are there many Commuters going to Limerick from north of Ennis, and many Galway/Limerick Commuters? (who arent already using the hourly 51 bus or driving?)

if bus and train are taking the same time, going from the same place in Limerick to the same place in Galway, and assuming Bus is cheaper, then who is going to use the train?

I'm guessing it will be mainly people north of Ennis commuting to work in Galway and existing Ennis -Limerick/Dublin users and people on business trips from Ennis and Limerick to Galway and vice a versa like this guy:

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=216

Matt Wallen: When would the trains to Limerick from Galway start and Will the schedule accomadate for commuters working between the two cities arrival at business hours .

Tom: We expect to have the Ennis to Athenry line re-opened by end 2008 thus facilitating direct trains between Limerick and Galway. The timetable will incorporate commuter services inwards to Galway and Limerick on the morning peak and reverse in the evenings. The exact timetable has yet to be finalised

D'Peoples Voice

in light of this development with respect to the N18 http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?t=9552), any news on the much anticipated WRC?

invincibleirish

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

in light of this development with respect to the N18 http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?t=9552), any news on the much anticipated WRC?

That deserves its own thread although its up on SABRE.

Let me just say in light of that we may think thr WRC is a waste of money now, wait until its up and running and far bigger more important projects (both Rail & Road) are suspended due to the downturn.

dermo88

Thats something I always predicted would happen. If that happens, and the Interconnector and Navan get cancelled, it will just be proof that the West is an abcess on the arse of this country. Mind, Limerick to Galway was always a desirable service to have. I've nothing against it provided its done right first time. Trouble is, its not, and its being built/rebuilt badly, so it won't compete.

invincibleirish

I think the inevitable endgame of all the bickering on this thread over the past few years is the seemingly possible situation whereby the WRC will be up & fully Running and the Interconnector will still be on the drawing board or delayed,delayed, delayed, like say the Midleton Railway line (5 years to open 10 miles of track?) or the impending world famous "downturn"?.

What a laugh that'll be.

Chris_533976

I think that N18 article is scaremongering.

Yes, there is less money available but the gov will continue to push roads as they look good for them.

That Connaught Tribune article says the N18 sections were to be started this spring. This was originally the case, but about six months ago the NRA told me it would be Q4 2008. They told me a week ago that it would be December 2008 or January 2009, for both sections to start.

I'm not worried yet, anyway. They will build them, but they might delay them.

markf909

Great post grounded in reality here from an actual potential user of the WRC.

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?t=9552&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=55

Predicted many moons ago on here.

Victor

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0613/1213262331353.html

€750,000 paid by council for parcel of land in rail upgrade

CLARE COUNTY Council has spent €750,000 acquiring a parcel of land for the upgrading of a railway project. The two acres of land and house are owned by John O'Connell (84), father of the Mayor of Clare, Cllr Patricia McCarthy (Ind). However, Cllr McCarthy absented herself from the decision.

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http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/13059951?view=Eircomnet&cat=Top%20Stories

€750,000 paid by council for parcel of land in rail upgrade
From ireland.comFriday, 13th June, 2008

CLARE COUNTY Council has spent €750,000 acquiring a parcel of land for the upgrading of a railway project. The two acres of land and house are owned by John O'Connell (84), father of the Mayor of Clare, Cllr Patricia McCarthy (Ind). However, Cllr McCarthy absented herself from the decision.

The purchase of the former station house at Sixmilebridge is part of the upgrading of the rail line to coincide with the first stage of the Western Rail Corridor project between Ennis and Galway, opening next year.

The council made the move after John O'Connell's property was rezoned last year by members of the council in the South Clare Economic Plan to facilitate a car park for rail customers.

Ms McCarthy said yesterday that she absented herself from all meetings relating to the rezoning. "I also abstained from any debate on the upgrade of the railway as it could have been misconstrued and leave it open to others to score points. I found it hard staying silent on the upgrading as I come from a railway family.

"I probably went overboard in relation to the ethics of the matter but I didn't want my role as councillor compromised in any way."

Mr O'Connell served as station master in Sixmilebridge from 1959 until the rail line was closed in the 1970s, having previously worked on the West Clare Railway line.Cllr McCarthy said the proposed purchase is subject to contract which has yet to be signed.

At a recent special policy group meeting at the council, county engineer Tom Carey suggested that the purchase might have been made through the mechanism of funds secured through the National Development Plan rather than directly by the council.

However, Cllr Brian Meaney (Green Party) welcomed the purchase. "It is a brilliant move and any criticism of the council purchase is small-minded.

"It is a great initiative and I hope that the council will repeat the move in other areas and this must be a boost to those in Crusheen who are looking for the station to be reopened there. I believe that this investment will result in badly needed revenue for the council."

Mr Meaney said that the provision of the station at Sixmilebridge will increase the numbers on the Ennis-Limerick rail line and the numbers going on to Galway.

Figures released by Iarnród Éireann show that 200,000 journeys were made on the Ennis-Limerick line last year - an increase of 39 per cent on the 144,000 journeys recorded on the line in its first full year of operation in 2004. The 200,000 journeys recorded on the line last year represented an increase of 20,000 on the 180,000 journeys recorded in 2006. The 2006 figure was in turn an increase on the 166,000 journeys in 2005.

Sixmilebridge will serve as one of seven stations along the Limerick-Galway rail line and the other six are Ennis, Gort, Ardrahan, Craughwell, Oranmore and Athenry.

Nostradamus

CLARE COUNTY Council has spent €750,000 acquiring a parcel of land for the upgrading of a railway project. The two acres of land and house are owned by John O'Connell (84), father of the Mayor of Clare, Cllr Patricia McCarthy (Ind). However, Cllr McCarthy absented herself from the decision.

Would anyone be in the slightest surprised if similar Social Justice developments will also manifest at other WRC station locations?

But I am sure that when the above are spending the €750,000, it'll done knowing they saved the people of West from regional imbalance.

Of course.

Ckal

Question. Will the WRC be double track at all? From what I've seen from pictures, it's single track, but any area where it's double? I can't see too many trains using it if it's single track the whole way...

Victor

I imagine, but don't know, there are passing loops somewhere.

KC61

Ckal wrote: »

Question. Will the WRC be double track at all? From what I've seen from pictures, it's single track, but any area where it's double? I can't see too many trains using it if it's single track the whole way...

It's single track all the way, but with passing loops at Ennis and Gort, and later Sixmilebridge (the latter will be added as part of the Limerick resignalling project).

The initial plans are for seven trains per day in each direction, effectively 1 every two hours.

Ckal

Thanks for the info

IIMII

In reading this, I came across a part that states that the Strategic Rail Review listed the cost of a Cork-Galway rail service at €290m. However, the author makes the point that that seems excessive given the good quality of the line between Ennis and Cork (his statement), and that the McCann report costed the Ennis-Athenry reopening at €74m, with Prof Seán Barrett agreeing the cost would be relatively light for Ennis-Athenry.

Has anyone any idea how this €290 was calculated by the SRR when McCann said €74m for Ennis-Athenry? It seems odd to say the least or am I just missing something obvious? Does Limerick-Cork need €215m in works?

Zoney

IIMII:

Perhaps to accommodate any more services between Limerick and Limerick junction one would have to double track that section, which presumably wouldn't be cheap. Also a Cork direct curve would probably have be put in at the junction to make operations feasible.

The cost also probably includes rolling stock, regardless of whether there is stock at hand that could be used.

IIMII

Cheers Zoney. Still seems excessive even with that though. Was there a direct curve at one point?

trellheim

correct me if I'm wrong but there is a direct curve from the Limerick Line to Platform 1 ... I was only there on Monday looking at it ... or is that what ye were talking about ?

monument

IIMII wrote: »

In reading this, ... with Prof Seán Barrett agreeing the cost would be relatively light for Ennis-Athenry...

Dr Sean Barrett is not a transport expert. He is anti-public transport, and, in general, from reading what he has written and said, he is against the idea of the state providing any services, or at least a lot less than now.

In fact, laughter is the correct response when his name is introduced to the subject of transport.

If he had his way, the Dart would have never been built.

I love the Economist magazine as while we might not see eye-to-eye they give facts and say they believe in X, Y, or Z... Barrett on the other hand is a rampant free market ideologue who is not at all clear about such.

invincibleirish

Far too late for me to be saying this, but if the country was going to spend ridiculous money on a western rail corridor then surely Galway-Limerick-Cork would have been a far better prospect for investment rather then what the WRC currently is going to be.

stiktoir

monument wrote: »

Dr Sean Barrett is not a transport expert. He is anti-public transport, and, in general, from reading what he has written and said, he is against the idea of the state providing any services, or at least a lot less than now.

In fact, laughter is the correct response when his name is introduced to the subject of transport.

If he had his way, the Dart would have never been built.

I love the Economist magazine as while we might not see eye-to-eye they give facts and say they believe in X, Y, or Z... Barrett on the other hand is a rampant free market ideologue who is not at all clear about such.

Immediately after the 2 Luas lines were built, and while there was still an issue regarding how much subvention the state would have to provide to cover possible running losses, the great Barret wrote a big feature (IT) ranting that the BIG lesson of Luas was that NO MORE money must be wasted in any rail infrastructure.
How wrong can you be?
A professor? A lobotomised donkey understands public transport more.
Seems as far as IT is concerned every day is April 1st.

IIMII

monument wrote: »

Dr Sean Barrett is not a transport expert. He is anti-public transport

I know. However, he seemed positive about Cork-Limerick-Galway based on what he is mentioned in relation to that document

Ckal

So..I guess that means if you wanna go to Limerick from Galway, you have to get off at Athenry and switch trains? Do you think they'll ever provide a bend so that you can go direct from Galway to Cork/Sligo?

Judgement Day

I am not sure about what services are intended between Limerick and Galway but given that they will be operated by the 'wretched' railcars there will be no need for direct curves etc at Athenry. On arrival at Athenry from Limerick the driver will simply walk down the train and drive from the cab at the other end - there has to be some advantage to the 'wretched' railcars!
More to the point what about catering (Ho,Ho..!!) and bicycles and Fastrack parcels...............CIE - Can Ireland Endure?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

KC61

Ckal wrote: »

So..I guess that means if you wanna go to Limerick from Galway, you have to get off at Athenry and switch trains? Do you think they'll ever provide a bend so that you can go direct from Galway to Cork/Sligo?

The trains will be operated by railcars, and will operate out from Galway to Athenry, where the driver will switch ends and the train will then continue to Limerick.

There will be no need to switch trains.

At Limerick Junction there is a direct curve linking the line from Limerick to Platform 1, thereby enabling direct Galway/Cork trains should that be required.