Western Rail Corridor

Nostradamus

My biggest worry all along was that the salivating trainspotters by having all their anoraks nailed to the WRC and the Nenagh, Lim-Rosslare-Harbour lines may have been played into a trap by the forces in this country who wish to undermine rail trainsport in favour of road and air.

I suspect (and I hope I am wrong) that the forthcoming massive ridership failure of the WRC will be used as a benchmark by future governments as to why investment in rail never pays off.

The Pheonix Park Tunnel route on the other hand would of paid off a long time ago had it ever been tried. But maybe...that's the reason why we have stations opening in the middle of rural Clare and not in Phisborough.

Engineered failure-proofing to undermine future investment in rail? Tragic really.

invincibleirish

Surely its less of a conspiracy and more a simple case of every gombeen hero politician wanting shiny infrastructure for their patch? In Ireland we build roads and rail that looks good on a map (the holy grail of the Train spotters and road fetishists), who cares if anyone uses them or they're worth the expenditure?.

Judgement Day

Lest it be said that I am anti everything outside the Pale, I am full square behind the 'retention' of the WRC, the Ballybrophy/Limerick and Limerick Junction/Rosslare Harbour routes.

What I am against is the way investment decisions have been prioritised and as Nostradamus says the impending failure of the WRC to attract sufficient passengers may well jeopardise future rail re-openings/improvements. I would have thought a more worthwhile investment (not sure of the cost) would have been the construction of a direct curve or triangle at Ballybrophy. This would have allowed the development of through inter-city services from Dublin to Limerick via Nenagh (pop.6,121 - 2002 census) and Roscrea (pop.4,578 - 2002 census). This would have increased track capacity on the Dublin/Cork line, provided additional services from Nenagh to Limerick and rejuvenated this run-down secondary line.

But the CIE/IE mindset has been running to the following pattern since approx. 1950: Close minor branches (eg Cashel, Mitchelstown); followed by close major branches/systems West Cork lines; Valentia etc; followed by close all narrow gauge lines (West Clare, Tralee & Dingle etc); followed by close all remaining branches and secondary routes (Mallow/Waterford, Bray/Harcourt Street etc); followed by close all routes not radiating from Dublin (Collooney/Athenry/Limerick, Limerick/Tralee, Limerick/Ballybrophy and, not forgetting the repeated attempts to close Limerick Junction/Rosslare Harbour. Quite simply CIE/IE are not capable of the quantum leap of imagination required to prioritise which routes should be reopened. They stagger from crisis to crisis gradually (rapidly?) becoming more and more irrelevant to to the smooth operation of passenger and freight transport on the island. Almost all freight traffic has now disappeared and if more was offering they have been so quick to cut up locomotives and wagons and sell off freight yards that they would be unable to cope with it. My favourite whipping boy - Fastrack - is rumoured to be coming to a complete cessation in March. :mad::mad::mad:

DWCommuter

I can officially confirm that fastrack closes on March 21st next.

galwayrush

Stroke Politics wrote: »

The Stroke Fahy is from Ardrahan, isn't he?

Spot on.;)

Judgement Day

Derek - Can you also confirm Dick Fearn's position?

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

Derek - Can you also confirm Dick Fearn's position?

Only heard the same whispers doing the rounds. But I expect to have confirmation of the situation tomorrow.;)

Stroke Politics

galwayrush wrote: »

Spot on.;)

The fencing looks familiar in the photos all right.....

Schuhart

DWCommuter wrote: »

Plans to increase inter city frequencies have been cut and we are building this joke as we do it! Meanwhile the so called management in CIE just stumble blindly about the place devoid of any private sector balls and intellect.

Indeed, I found this bit of the article hard to fathom as an expression of IE 'strategic thinking'

in a written response to the consultants, Iarnród Éireann's manager of strategic and business planning, Michael Reidy, said <snip> that SDG had failed to grasp the uniqueness of the Ennis-Athenry project and the project could never be justified on the basis of a simple socio-economic analysis no matter what level of sensitivity tests were undertaken.

"The justification for the project is on regional development grounds, and SDG recommendations should reflect this," Mr Reidy said.

"The notion of considering alternative options shows a clear lack of understanding of the nature of the project."

I mean, how can any project be justified if there's no social benefits to justify the costs (which is what I take 'simple socio-economic analysis' to mean and, unless he's speaking a different dialect of English, Michael Reidy must mean the same thing).

And what in the nature of the project would make us prioritise it ahead of alternatives that do the job better? I mean, we're used to WRC advocates saying any old thing so long as it amounts to a stauch assertion of their support. But this is surely bizarre language to seen coming from IE's 'manager of strategic and business planning'.

DWCommuter

Schuhart wrote: »

But this is surely bizarre language to seen coming from IE's 'manager of strategic and business planning'.

Bizarre is what IE do best while astounding is how they justify it.

parsi

Nostradamus wrote: »

My biggest worry all along was that the salivating trainspotters by having all their anoraks nailed to the WRC and the Nenagh, Lim-Rosslare-Harbour lines may have been played into a trap by the forces in this country who wish to undermine rail trainsport in favour of road and air.

Surely people don't believe that the WRC is as a result of trainspotters and their like ?

Is it not a case of political momentum developing about a "western project" so as to make the westerners feel less left-out and therefore the incumbents seats more secure ?

Now after having had this project foisted on-them IE are left trying to explain why it's a good idea (even though they probably know that it isn't )...

murphaph

I sincerely hope these professional moaners in WoT and those that surrounded them are really pleased with themselves now that the money's just about gone and Navan has no rail link. But they told us all along these projects would not be in competition for funding.

Any MORON knows that ALL projects requiring public expenditure are in competition with ALL other projects requiring public expenditure because there was never a limitless pot of money.

Well done to the west of Ireland moaner brigade (not all of you, the sensible ones know who they are). You will live to see this line closed again due to nobody using it and then the part of the country that sends the most money your way (you know, for useful stuff like education etc.) will not be able to attract industry due to chronic underinvestment in infrastructure and then you'll be moaning about kids in prefab schools again and how it's all a Dublin conspiracy. Well done again. Parochial tossers.

glineli

Nostradamus wrote: »

My biggest worry all along was that the salivating trainspotters by having all their anoraks nailed to the WRC and the Nenagh, Lim-Rosslare-Harbour lines may have been played into a trap by the forces in this country who wish to undermine rail trainsport in favour of road and air.

I suspect (and I hope I am wrong) that the forthcoming massive ridership failure of the WRC will be used as a benchmark by future governments as to why investment in rail never pays off.

The Pheonix Park Tunnel route on the other hand would of paid off a long time ago had it ever been tried. But maybe...that's the reason why we have stations opening in the middle of rural Clare and not in Phisborough.

Engineered failure-proofing to undermine future investment in rail? Tragic really.

Whats stations in the middle of rural clare?? as far as i know it goes from ennis to gort directly, no rural clare station!!!

L1011

glineli wrote: »

Whats stations in the middle of rural clare?? as far as i know it goes from ennis to gort directly, no rural clare station!!!

Sixmilebridge?

glineli

MYOB wrote: »

Sixmilebridge?

He said stations, not station.

If anything there are too many stations after gort, ardrahan for example.

Nostradamus

glineli wrote: »

Whats stations in the middle of rural clare?? as far as i know it goes from ennis to gort directly, no rural clare station!!!

Does it matter.

Nostradamus

parsi wrote: »

Surely people don't believe that the WRC is as a result of trainspotters and their like ?

That's about 50% of it. Most of them do not even live in the West of Ireland - many of them are in the UK who do not pay a penny tax here and behave like victorian colonial vicroys sending orders to their Irish based manservants within the Irish trainspotting community.

The other 50% are the multi-party gombeens who want us to make the "correct" eh, democratic...vote in the Lisbon Treaty this time around so they can all line up cushy jobs in the EU for themselves and their pals once the Lisbon Treaty is implemented and these gombeens will sell their souls for a vote no matter how stupid. Hence why they "support" the WRC.

The WRC is being reopened in this useless guise as a means to an end and that's end result is not quality public transport for people in the West of Ireland, nor the taxpayers who'll be keeping it afloat until some future government under budgetary constraints pulls the plug on all regional rail lines.

Nevermind, the trainspotters will still have their treasured photograph collection and the Gombeens will be far away in EU mainland Stroke-on-Rhein. The EU will have reduced Dublin to a minor provicial town by then so they Interconnector/Metro won't matter as Dublin will be deemed too small for rail investments and besides "look at the way we funded the Western Rail Corridor and no one used it and we had to close it!"

Schuhart

murphaph wrote: »

Any MORON knows that ALL projects requiring public expenditure are in competition with ALL other projects requiring public expenditure because there was never a limitless pot of money.

Unlike Iarnród Éireann's manager of strategic and business planning, Michael Reidy, you clearly don't understand that "The notion of considering alternative options shows a clear lack of understanding of the nature of the project."

But, in fairness, I don't understand it either. This makes far more sense to me

The Hatter opened his eyes very wide on hearing this; but all he said was, ‘Why is a raven like a writing-desk?’

‘Come, we shall have some fun now!’ thought Alice. ‘I’m glad they’ve begun asking riddles. –I believe I can guess that,’ she added aloud.

‘Do you mean that you think you can find out the answer to it?’ said the March Hare.

‘Exactly so,’ said Alice.

‘Then you should say what you mean,’ the March Hare went on.

‘I do,’ Alice hastily replied; ‘at least–at least I mean what I say–that’s the same thing, you know.’

‘Not the same thing a bit!’ said the Hatter. ‘You might just as well say that “I see what I eat” is the same thing as “I eat what I see”!’

‘You might just as well say,’ added the March Hare, ‘that “I like what I get” is the same thing as “I get what I like”!’

‘You might just as well say,’ added the Dormouse, who seemed to be talking in his sleep, ‘that “I breathe when I sleep” is the same thing as “I sleep when I breathe”!’

‘It is the same thing with you,’ said the Hatter, and here the conversation dropped, and the party sat silent for a minute, while Alice thought over all she could remember about ravens and writing-desks, which wasn’t much.

Victor

Schuhart wrote: »

how can any project be justified if there's no social benefits to justify the costs

Politics.

Michael Reidy would appear to be using something like double talk, but is doing so at the behest of politicians.

Judgement Day

glineli wrote: »

He said stations, not station.

If anything there are too many stations after gort, ardrahan for example.

If the wretched line is to be reopened it might as well have a few stations. What would you suggest Limerick/Ennis/Athenry/Galway? There will be little enough traffic as it is.

Nostradamus

Dublin to Limerick via the WRC/Gort might actually bring in the passenger numbers to a respectable level if the timings can be worked out to make it workable. The curve at Athenry is even facing towards Dublin so it has a major benefit that Dublin-Limerick via Nenagh does not have.

It'll never happen anyways as they would scream "Palerail!!" and rather let the line rot away as a symbolic platitude of shuffling near empty railcars at Athenry in tribute to so called regional development.

dowlingm

Nostradamus

I doubt it could be worked to make Limerick attractive given that line speed is not going to be terrific but if connecting timings fed primarily into Dublin bound rather than Galway bound services it would be a big boost to total services to Ennis.

It's built now, we should make the best of it, but thank god the Tuam relay hasn't started yet.

dowlingm

Judgement Day wrote: »

If the wretched line is to be reopened it might as well have a few stations. What would you suggest Limerick/Ennis/Athenry/Galway? There will be little enough traffic as it is.

Limerick-Limerick West/Longpavement-Sixmilebridge-Ennis-Gort-Athenry-Oranmore-Galway.

Poxyshamrock

Anyone know when work is to start on the Station at Sixmilebridge?

Tadhg17

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Anyone know when work is to start on the Station at Sixmilebridge?

No definite dates announced for work on Sixmilebridge station but work should start some time this spring according to this article:

http://www.clarecourier.ie/article.asp?id=1153

McCarthy welcomes news that her family home will reopen as Sixmilebridge Railway Station

02 December 2008

News that work will begin shortly on reopening Sixmilebridge railway station has been broadly welcomed by councillors in Shannon, but for one councillor in particular, it brought back fond memories of living in the station house.

Earlier this year Clare County Council acquired two acres of land and Cllr Patricia McCarthy’s family home, which was still occupied by her father John O’Connell, for a reported sum of €750,000.
Mr O’Connell had worked on the West Clare Railway, immortalised in song by Percy Ffrench, until its closure and had been relocated to Sixmilebridge as station master in 1959.
Last week his daughter Patricia was delighted to hear that work will begin shortly on the station and it is intended to resume services during 2009.
The announcement came during a presentation given to the Shannon area councillors’ committee by Fiona Mooney and Eilis Ní Nuanain.
Reopening of the Sixmilebridge station comes under stage one of the Western Rail Corridor. Track work has been ongoing since 2007 and will be completed next year.
Car parking facilities will be available with spaces for eighty vehicles, including three disabled bays. Fees will be broadly similar to other similar stations at €2 per day or €8 per week for commuters. These charges will help to defray the cost of a CCTV security system.
Iarnród Éireann intend to relocate the platform from alongside the station house as technical specifications on track gradients have changed.
According to Ms. Mooney the station house itself will not be required for rail operations and the ticket dispenser will be available on the platform. Some ground has been purchased from the Brothers of Charity to improve access.
In reply to a query, Cllr Gerry Flynn was informed that the station house is not a protected structure. “It should be because that it a landmark in Sixmilebridge,” he said.
When he asked if this means it could be bulldozed, Ms Mooney said no, the intention is to have it refurbished and put to a commercial use.
Cllr Flynn was also concerned that people living adjacent to the station should be consulted on the development as the reopened station would have a huge impact on their lives.
Ms Mooney said that the local authority had consulted with the Brothers of Charity but not with the wider community. Cllr Flynn urged them to do so sooner rather than later.
Cllr John Crowe welcomed the development saying it would provide a massive boost for Shannon, Sixmilebridge and the entire East Clare area.
Cllr Pat McMahon said it will be brilliant for the whole area as it will link Sixmilebridge into the national rail network, giving people a viable alternative when travelling to any part of the country and improving access to Shannon Airport.
He added that the success of this station might change minds at Government level to introduce a series of local stations along the line.
Fiona Mooney said that the project will be going through Part VIII of the planning process in December and Iarnród Éireann will commence work in the new year.
She added that the work will include a short road closure of approximately two days to facilitate bridge works and the station will open in 2009.
Cllr Patricia McCarthy prefaced her remarks by saying that it is the first time in many years that she feels free to talk about the project because her father was the owner of the property in question.
“Even though I would have been prevented from speaking, I have been fully supportive of this proposal and keen to see it come to a conclusion.
Cllr McCarthy recalled her family arriving at the station house in 1959. “It was a nice place to live and a fine house and I know my father will be delighted to know that the building is going to be preserved.
“Structurally it is sound and I look forward to see it being put into active use again. This is a very welcome development for the area.
“For us as a family it’s great because we left Kilrush before the closure of the West Clare railway and arrived in Sixmilebridge to see another closure of a railway. I know that my father is happy that the railway station will be reopened.
“We had no desire to see our family home sold only for the opening of a railway. It’s been a long process, it was ten years ago or maybe longer when it first appeared that the logical place for a railway would be Sixmilebridge.
“We had conditioned ourselves to the fact that we were going to be selling our family home.
“I remember when it was a very active station with a lot of cattle and cargo passing through, sheep being moved and there was a lot of activity. Personally and speaking for the family, we are absolutely delighted it is going back into use again,” said Cllr McCarthy

rkevin

Nostradamus not sure where u are from but you must know very little about the galway-clare- limerick area.Take craughwell for example it is located 12 miles from galway city but it take over 1 hour to get to work in galway city.When there is rail stopping there people have the option to get to work in 15 min max. the same will apply to all the other stops on the rail line so it is up tp the local people to make it a sucess.
As for population in these areas it is very high and i invite you to drive up any road with in a 20 mile radius of galway city and see the amount of house there (which Galway county council gave planning to and ****ed up the county side but that another story)
We need a train station to be put in renmore so that any students from as far out as ennis going to GMIT (6000 students) can use rail to get there and hence take pressure off our roads and reduce the cost on parents of funding accomadation in galway.
i for one will be using the rail 5 days a week and well done to all who battled to get it and once the trains start running it is up to the people to make it work not the goverement

Judgement Day

I presume there will be armed security guards on the trains if a stop at Longpavement is envisaged?:D

dowlingm

rkevin wrote: »

Take craughwell for example it is located 12 miles from galway city but it take over 1 hour to get to work in galway city.When there is rail stopping there people have the option to get to work in 15 min max.

rkevin, even the briefest look at the IE timetable would reveal that to be rubbish. :mad: At present Athenry-Galway is timetabled between 19-26mins (the 19min is dep Ath 2012 arr Gal 2031), so how the hell could a train travel from Craughwell to Athenry in enough time to complete a 15min journey without some kind of time machine.

(Edit: Craughwell-Galway is 24km by road - 15 miles - but the rail routing through Athenry is more like 31km - 19 miles.)

dowlingm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I presume there will be armed security guards on the trains if a stop at Longpavement is envisaged?:D

Why deny the IE train staff the fun encountered on the Maynooth and Kildare lines?

rkevin

Athenry to Galway is about 15 mile and train track was put in a more direct route so distance might be more like 13 miles by rail
So take the 26 min to travel 13 mile = a speed of 30 mile/hour
Take the 19 min to travel 13 miles = a speed of 41 miles /hour
Is u telling me that we don’t have a train in Ireland going faster than 41 miles an hour???? and that still beat sitting in traffic for over a hour

No wonder Irish rail is losing money