Western Rail Corridor

T Corolla

I agree with you entirely Irish rail need to improve their services or in the next few years there will be little or no passenger number using a service that costs hundreds of millions to run annually. The intercity trains need to be completing journeys at a speed of 80mph in order to compete with the dualcarriageways

Schuhart

rkevin wrote: »

Is u telling me that we don’t have a train in Ireland going faster than 41 miles an hour???? and that still beat sitting in traffic for over a hour

It might if your journey starts in Athenry and terminates in the middle of Galway, and if the scheduled times of trains matches your needs.

rkevin

Schuhart wrote: »

It might if your journey starts in Athenry and terminates in the middle of Galway, and if the scheduled times of trains matches your needs.

but that is where planning kicks in.If they plan it correct they will get loads of people using it.Anybody working in galway city and coming in from ennis direction or loughrea direction will tell u that traffic is a nightmare.
we need efficient trains at the required times. as i have stated 6000 students attend GMIT and lot of them are galway people.
the train is the best option as we can see galway CO CO cant even get us a bypass.
even better the rail line should be linked to shannon airport which would do wonder for galway and limerick citys

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

rkevin, even the briefest look at the IE timetable would reveal that to be rubbish. :mad: At present Athenry-Galway is timetabled between 19-26mins (the 19min is dep Ath 2012 arr Gal 2031), so how the hell could a train travel from Craughwell to Athenry in enough time to complete a 15min journey without some kind of time machine.

(Edit: Craughwell-Galway is 24km by road - 15 miles - but the rail routing through Athenry is more like 31km - 19 miles.)

Standard practice in railway scheduling (and indeed most forms of public transport) is to build in recovery time in the last part of the journey. That's why Athenry/Galway is given 19 minutes for Dublin/Galway services. 6 minutes of that is recovery time, which is the standard amount built into each train's timetable. The standard journey time is 13 minutes to travel 13.25 miles - look at the timetable from Galway and you will see that. That equates to an average speed of 60mph.

Local WRC services should do Athenry/Galway in about 14 minutes, allowing for faster acceleration/decelaration of railcars (the timetable is based on locomotive hauled stock which has far slower acceleration/deceleration) and a stop at Oranmore (each station stop should take no more than 2 minutes additional max - 30 secs deceleration, another 30 for acceleration and 1 minute stop).

Carawaystick

The bridge over the R348 between Derrydonell junction with the N6 and the Athenry Golf club was replaced with a concrete deck in mid December, seemed to be double track width, as the new deck was left beside the old bridge for a week.

The track from the Level crossing in Craughwell towards Athenry seems very poorly laid and not straight or level.

dowlingm

Fair point KC61 - Galway to Athenry is 13-22 minutes (wtf is up with the 2145? Last train so deliberately leaves after scheduled time to try not to strand ppl?) when you look at the reverse journey. Presumably we're looking at a 3-4m wait at Athenry to change ends and reverse down the Athenry line about 5 miles to Craughwell so let's say 6 minutes at 50mph line speed?

So at least 20mins, more likely 25.

corktina

dont forget those units are pretty nippy when they are running empty:D

DWCommuter

Carawaystick wrote: »

The track from the Level crossing in Craughwell towards Athenry seems very poorly laid and not straight or level.

The relay at approx. 100 million is still not actually enough to make this originally poorly planned and built railway, resemble anything built in the 21st century. If you look at the line all the way from Ennis, all that has been done is merely new track and ballast on the original railway foundation which was an early rollercoaster for steam engines. You can throw in modern stations and new signalling, but its still just a relic spruced up so its nice to look at. At one level crossing near Ardrahan, you can look towards Athenry and see how this shiny new track goes up hill by going downhill and up again.

Ive held the same opinion for nearly 5 years. Its a bad joke.

Victor

Carawaystick wrote: »

The bridge over the R348 between Derrydonell junction with the N6 and the Athenry Golf club was replaced with a concrete deck in mid December, seemed to be double track width, as the new deck was left beside the old bridge for a week.

All bridges will tend to be done to accommodate double track as typically the cost of the extra span is modest in the scheme of things and going back to change things in one project is phenomenal in disruption and cost.

The track from the Level crossing in Craughwell towards Athenry seems very poorly laid and not straight or level.

Is this new track? Has it been fully tensioned yet?

Has all the track been complete?

dowlingm wrote: »

Fair point KC61 - Galway to Athenry is 13-22 minutes (wtf is up with the 2145? Last train so deliberately leaves after scheduled time to try not to strand ppl?) when you look at the reverse journey.

Lots of trains seem to be arriving "late" at intermediate stations to squeeze a few more minutes onto the end of the journey.

rkevin

well the fact is even if it did take 30 min to get into town it still beat 1 hour sitting in traffic. on the train sit back and read the paper.
the people are are there , the train will be there and it up to the people to make a sucess of it.There are approx 16000 student in galway alone never mind the working people.
It will all depend on the service that is provided and at least u will get a seat on it unlike the commuter train in to dublin
the people that talk down the WRC should open there eyes ansd see it as progress and progress is good and after all that is all the west has got from the boom years but still i would never give up the west for the hell that dublin is

Nostradamus

rkevin wrote: »

well the fact is even if it did take 30 min to get into town it still beat 1 hour sitting in traffic. on the train sit back and read the paper.
the people are are there , the train will be there and it up to the people to make a sucess of it.There are approx 16000 student in galway alone never mind the working people.

and all of them just happen to live along the route of the WRC and within short distance of a station?

rkevin wrote: »

It will all depend on the service that is provided and at least u will get a seat on it unlike the commuter train in to dublin
the people that talk down the WRC should open there eyes ansd see it as progress and progress is good and after all that is all the west has got from the boom years but still i would never give up the west for the hell that dublin is

You should try and show more respect to the taxpayers who are paying for your latest trinket.

dowlingm

Victor wrote: »

Lots of trains seem to be arriving "late" at intermediate stations to squeeze a few more minutes onto the end of the journey.

KC61 tells me trains have journey time at the end.
Victor tells me trains have journey time at the beginning.
Is there any other way IE can pad its goddamn timetable???

rkevin

Nostradamus wrote: »

and all of them just happen to live along the route of the WRC and within short distance of a station?
You should try and show more respect to the taxpayers who are paying for your latest trinket.

well Nostradamus u tell us where u live and work and we will see what little trinket the tax payers have done for you??????????????

glineli

I hope is works out well and is a big success. I believe IE maybe could have planned it better. I live 30 miles from galway, the trainline is about 300 yards away from my home house. Now the train aint stopping in the village, fair enough, but even it was, where i work in galway. i would still have had to get a bus back out. a stop in oranmore and a good bus service from there to all the major ida parks should have been considered.

In saying that, i really hope it works out. It needs to or else there will be too many people saying i told you so!!!

crocro

Commuter rail is only attractive when it is frequent and when the alternative is either very expensive or a much longer journey time.

The WRC will muster maybe two trains for the morning commute. The area it passes through has a dispersed population. Potential passengers will have to drive to the station, pay to park and pay for a ticket. At the other end there is hardly any public transport in galway city so more time and hassle. Add to this that Galway is not the driest city and the car is looking far the more attractive choice.

The projected passenger numbers have been estimated to be tiny by every consultant report (mccann, strategic rail review etc). The line is being built despite the fact that everyone involved knows it will be little used and will bring no benefit other than a couple of train driver jobs. The important thing is that the cost is being borne by somebody else.

What would Galway or Limerick local government have done had they been given 100m to spend on public transport? because you can be sure as hell it wouldn't have been to build an intercity single-track slow-coach that hardly anyone would use.

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

Fair point KC61 - Galway to Athenry is 13-22 minutes (wtf is up with the 2145? Last train so deliberately leaves after scheduled time to try not to strand ppl?) when you look at the reverse journey. Presumably we're looking at a 3-4m wait at Athenry to change ends and reverse down the Athenry line about 5 miles to Craughwell so let's say 6 minutes at 50mph line speed?

So at least 20mins, more likely 25.

The 2145 service waits at the passing loop outside of Galway to let the 1915 service from Dublin pass.

There is only one platform in Galway that is long enough to accomodate full trains.

20-25 minutes would be a reasonable guess for the Craughwell/Galway journey time.

KC61

dowlingm wrote: »

KC61 tells me trains have journey time at the end.
Victor tells me trains have journey time at the beginning.
Is there any other way IE can pad its goddamn timetable???

The timetables by and large have recovery time at the end of the route for intercity journeys, usually approximately 6 minutes. There is also recovery time (approximately 6 minutes again) built into the Heuston-Sallins section of the schedule in both directions to allow for temporary speed restrictions that may arise from time to time as a result of the KRP works.

In general that is all the recovery time built into the schedule. However, the current timetable was scheduled with locomotive hauled trains in mind. The new Intercity Railcars have a far superior acceleration/deceleration and should deliver journey time improvements when the timetable is eventually recast. However, the improvements can be reduced on single track routes where additional trains are introduced, as this means more trains crossing one another at passing loops. Where two trains pass at a loop, 6 minutes is generally added into one train's schedule to allow for potential delays in either train's journey so as to minimise the knock-on effect of the delay.

Hence trains on the Sligo route are faster than before, but because each service passes three trains en route, this improvement is reduced. Trains going to Sligo have crossing time built into the schedule at Maynooth and Boyle, and trains in the opposite direction have extra time built in at Edgeworthstown and Maynooth.

I hope that's cleared that one up for you dowlingm!!!

D'Peoples Voice

ishmael whale wrote: »

Bear in mind that my comment is in response to (yet another) Western based politician suggesting that the West subsidises the East. You seem to comfortable enough with someone perpetuating that myth, but if someone attempts to draw attention to the reality of the situation they’re an over-educated trinity type having his rant on an the easy issue.

Personally, I’d love to see regional balance in the language of debate. We have national infrastructure problems. We won’t solve them by allowing the perpetuation of the myth that the West is in some way neglected.

You want links to substantiate what I’m saying. Fine, I’ve posted this stuff up before but here we go again.

Dublin households pay €5,474 million in tax and receive €3,939 million in transfers, yielding a net €1,535 million. Mid East Region households (Kildare, Meath, Wicklow) pay €1,759 million in tax and get €1,143 million transfers, yielding a net €616 million.

Overall Irish households pay €15,047 million in tax and receive €13,174 million in social transfers. The surplus of €1,873 million can be largely attributed to the Dublin and Mid East regions combined net contribution of €2,151 million.

It’s a simple – but not simplistic – fact that Dublin and the Mid East region is an income generator for the country. That’s one of the reasons why the East’s massive infrastructure deficit is a matter of national concern.
http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/economy/current/regincome.pdf

The plain fact is the West does not have much of a transport problem, as these statistics from the Western Development Commission illustrate:
Similarly, the West gets more than the national average in the educational sector.
Take the feeling you had when you read my post above. That’s exactly how I feel when someone from the West tries to brush over the East’s problems. The only difference is the case for infrastructure for the East is based on need, not myth.

in times of recession, I wonder if the government remember that holding back on transport initiatives in Dublin & Mid East will cripple the whole country!

D'Peoples Voice

BTH wrote: »

Just to show how the roads infrastructure in the west is set to change dramatically as well as the Railways: Image from Galway Co. Council website.



Just to the right of the proposed junction is Athenry - looking like becoming the "hub" of the west...

you don't think all these new roads will undermine the WRC - assuming it was ever viable from day 1?

D'Peoples Voice

Victor wrote: »

The densities shown on this poster is what should put this thing to bed.

http://www.ireland.com/timeseye/whoweare/poster.htm

Victor, something is wrong with that link!
http://www.hse.ie/eng/FactFile/FactFile_PDFs/maps/Pop_Density_Galway_Mayo_Roscommon.pdf

http://www.bestcountryreports.com/zoomify.asp?name=Z_Irelan_Pop

http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/island_density.gif

page 2 of 11

Victor

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Victor wrote: »

The densities shown on this poster is what should put this thing to bed.

http://www.ireland.com/timeseye/whoweare/poster.htm

Victor, something is wrong with that link!

That post was made 2.5 years ago.

monument

Victor wrote: »

That post was made 2.5 years ago.

It's now...
http://www.irishtimes.com/timeseye/whoweare/poster.htm

rkevin

crocro wrote: »

Potential passengers will have to drive to the station, pay to park and pay for a ticket. At the other end there is hardly any public transport in galway city so more time and hassle. Add to this that Galway is not the driest city and the car is looking far the more attractive choic

crocro u must never have had to find parking in galway city or had to pay for the cost of it.from now on we in galway will have to pay €200 euro levy to the goverement to park allso.
A guy i was talking to told me it took him 80min to get home last night from city centre to where he live about 15 miles
as for the cost look at what they have spent in dublin and they are still complaining and going on about traffic
look at the overspend on m50 , LUAS and i hear to day they are going
to open the navan line and by the time that is done all the dub that are in navan will have moved back in to dublin leaving empty houses so is there need for it?????
as for giving galway city or county councile €100 million god all they have done to relieve traffic is build a bus lane that goes no where.
now they are bring the new M6 in to the existing road structure which u cant even move on
Galway and west of ireland people put as much in to the irish Economy as any other reigion and we deserve the same rail and road options

Victor

rkevin wrote: »

A guy i was talking to told me it took him 80min to get home last night from city centre to where he live about 15 miles

He has only himself and Galway County Council to blame.

as for the cost look at what they have spent in dublin and they are still complaining and going on about traffic look at the overspend on m50 , LUAS

When you go to you local supermarket, which port has the orange juice come through? And the Corn Flakes biscuits? And the Hob-Nob biscuits? And how did they get from that port to Galway?

Realise that investment in the M50 benefits the entire country. Building the Galway ring road only benefits Galway and Connemara.

Galway and west of ireland people put as much in to the irish Economy as any other reigion

No they don't. If they did, average wages would be the same, but they aren't.

Sure have regional development, but in proportion. At the moment, the least populated areas of the country have the most railway.

Chris_533976

rkevin

Originally Posted by D'Peoples Voice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
The densities shown on this poster is what should put this thing to bed.

http://www.ireland.com/timeseye/whoweare/poster.htm
all this show is that Dpeoples voice is 7 year behind the times
that map was created with 2002 population and since that we have 7 year of the boom that forced people to move out of cityes

Victor

rkevin wrote: »

all this show is that Dpeoples voice is 7 year behind the times
that map was created with 2002 population and since that we have 7 year of the boom that forced people to move out of cityes

I posted that link in 2006 before Census 2006 data was available.

rkevin

Victor wrote: »

That post was made 2.5 years ago.

Victor wrote: »

He has only himself and Galway County Council to blame.

When you go to you local supermarket, which port has the orange juice come through? And the Corn Flakes biscuits? And the Hob-Nob biscuits? And how did they get from that port to Galway?

Realise that investment in the M50 benefits the entire country. Building the Galway ring road only benefits Galway and Connemara.

No they don't. If they did, average wages would be the same, but they aren't.

are u trying to say that the way the irish people were ripped off by
overruns on the port tunnel, m50,luas and any other thing they have tryed to do in dublin was value for money. They have put most of the boom money into dublin, traffic got worse,crime gone up social issues gone through the roof and it is sad to say this but it is the dirtyest capital city in europe
The spire god that was value and the cost of cleaning it
look close to home to look and bad goverement spending
as for ring roads?
what about waterford, limerick, cork, ennis, sligo, who do them ring roads benrfits????

rkevin

Victor wrote: »

I posted that link in 2006 before Census 2006 data was available.

that dose not matter you used it today in todays reply and today it is 7 years out of date and has no useful input in 2009 in relation to where people live

Ste.phen

This thread very quickly descended into barely literate mumbling, what happened?!