Western Rail Corridor

corktina · 10-02-2009 8:32am

is it 700 passengers a day OR 700 single journeys?

Carawaystick · 10-02-2009 9:58am

Cool Mo D wrote: »

And a good coach service will never attract the same passenger numbers as a train - it may be faster on journey time, but you'll never be able to stretch your legs, or buy a drink, or have the same legroom and a table as on a train.

There is almost zero extra cost to running a coach service on the improved roads, compared to the cost of renovating the train line.
Also you are guaranteed a seat on a coach. and a coach service can change its route easily in the future if the circumstances change.

Schuhart · 10-02-2009 10:12am

Zoney wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that anyone is making the extremists up. I am more asking the motivation for seeking them out and giving them national air time?

Can I suggest its because you're the only one who thinks they are extremists. They actually represent mainstream opinion, which is why Duncan has no problem finding people who want to talk to him about it.

corktina wrote: »

is it 700 passengers a day OR 700 single journeys?

I think its actually 600, and my understanding is it is 600 single journeys. Bear in mind, no effort would be spared in trying to make this sound like more than it is.

KevR · 10-02-2009 11:46am

Tadhg17 wrote: »

Citylink will be doing Galway-Limerick in 90 mins(though not stopping in Ennis) and this could become even less when the new bus lane is done from the Coonagh roundabout into the Dock Road.
http://www.citylink.ie/timetable-galw2cork.htm

They should also improve on their speed when the Crusheen-Gort motorway opens.

corktina · 10-02-2009 3:47pm

Schuhart wrote: »

Can I suggest its because you're the only one who thinks they are extremists. They actually represent mainstream opinion, which is why Duncan has no problem finding people who want to talk to him about it.I think its actually 600, and my understanding is it is 600 single journeys. Bear in mind, no effort would be spared in trying to make this sound like more than it is.

so thats UP TO 300 passengers a day then or about 6 bus loads...

RedPlanet · 10-02-2009 5:58pm

It'd be great if they upgraded the old lines by surfacing them with gravel and marked them as a scenic cross-country tracks.
They could market them for cycle-tourism and walkers and renovate old railway buildings as hostels and b&b's.

Judgement Day · 10-02-2009 8:54pm

RedPlanet wrote: »

It'd be great if they upgraded the old lines by surfacing them with gravel and marked them as a scenic cross-country tracks.
They could market them for cycle-tourism and walkers and renovate old railway buildings as hostels and b&b's.

I hear the sound of pigs flapping overhead!:D

Carawaystick · 11-02-2009 12:09am

Imagine the outrage of the good citizens of Connacht having walkers and cyclists crossing their driveways.....

Tadhg17 · 11-02-2009 12:20am

corktina wrote: »

so thats UP TO 300 passengers a day then or about 6 bus loads...

I doubt its only 300 passengers a day. The trains they use on the line are those 2 X 2700 carriages with each carraige having 55 seats. The 8am train from Ennis to Limerick is nearly always full whenever I got it as is the 4.20pm and 6pm trains from Limerick-Ennis. The 7:30pm train from Limerick is fairly busy aswell with alot of people using it coming down from Dublin. The daily passengers total are around 600. The article below states that number aswell:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0207/rail.html

Schuhart · 11-02-2009 1:29am

Tadhg17 wrote: »

I doubt its only 300 passengers a day. The trains they use on the line are those 2 X 2700 carriages with each carraige having 55 seats. The 8am train from Ennis to Limerick is nearly always full whenever I got it as is the 4.20pm and 6pm trains from Limerick-Ennis. The 7:30pm train from Limerick is fairly busy aswell with alot of people using it coming down from Dublin. The daily passengers total are around 600. The article below states that number aswell:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0207/rail.html

I'm not clear on the point here. Are we all agreeing that we're talking about 600 individual journeys? Which is what I think that article is telling us.

corktina · 11-02-2009 8:26am

Tadhg17 wrote: »

I doubt its only 300 passengers a day. The trains they use on the line are those 2 X 2700 carriages with each carraige having 55 seats. The 8am train from Ennis to Limerick is nearly always full whenever I got it as is the 4.20pm and 6pm trains from Limerick-Ennis. The 7:30pm train from Limerick is fairly busy aswell with alot of people using it coming down from Dublin. The daily passengers total are around 600. The article below states that number aswell:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0207/rail.html

so that 100 or so on the 4.20 and another 100 on the 6pm , which you'd expect to be the busiest in that direction, so where are the other 400? 600PASSENGERS a day would mean getting on fro 1200 journeys...thats spin surely.

Tadhg17 · 11-02-2009 2:19pm

corktina wrote: »

so that 100 or so on the 4.20 and another 100 on the 6pm , which you'd expect to be the busiest in that direction, so where are the other 400? 600PASSENGERS a day would mean getting on fro 1200 journeys...thats spin surely.

From my own observations the 8am from Ennis-Limerick and 4:20pm and 6pm from Limerick-Ennis are more or less always full. The other 300 odd passengers obviously travel on the rest of the Ennis-Limerick services throughout the day.

invincibleirish · 11-02-2009 2:33pm

Tadhg17 wrote: »

From my own observations the 8am from Ennis-Limerick and 4:20pm and 6pm from Limerick-Ennis are more or less always full. The other 300 odd passengers obviously travel on the rest of the Ennis-Limerick services throughout the day.

Full as in everyone is standing or full as in most seats are taken? the other 300 passengers/journeys across 6/7 return services a day doesn't sound great at all. Better then Nenagh and Waterford-Limerick Jct. i suppose.

Judgement Day · 11-02-2009 3:04pm

invincibleirish wrote: »

Full as in everyone is standing or full as in most seats are taken? the other 300 passengers/journeys across 6/7 return services a day doesn't sound great at all. Better then Nenagh and Waterford-Limerick Jct. i suppose.

By this statement is it your belief that the Limerick Junction/Waterford and Nenagh services are not worth retaining?

invincibleirish · 11-02-2009 3:43pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

By this statement is it your belief that the Limerick Junction/Waterford and Nenagh services are not worth retaining?

Both lines look good on a map, but thats about it really. M7 will probably kill off Nenaghs potential, lim jct-Wafurd might stay open due to politics involved but will it ever be much use without investment? probably not.

Judged against these lines though i think the WRC will surely be considered a success.

corktina · 11-02-2009 3:50pm

Tadhg17 wrote: »

From my own observations the 8am from Ennis-Limerick and 4:20pm and 6pm from Limerick-Ennis are more or less always full. The other 300 odd passengers obviously travel on the rest of the Ennis-Limerick services throughout the day.

the point i was making is that is 300 odd passengers in either direction or 600 odd journeys . That is NOT the same as saying 600 people use it daily, when roughly half of them use it twice.

corktina · 11-02-2009 3:52pm

invincibleirish wrote: »

Both lines look good on a map, but thats about it really. M7 will probably kill off Nenaghs potential, lim jct-Wafurd might stay open due to politics involved but will it ever be much use without investment? probably not.

Judged against these lines though i think the WRC will surely be considered a success.

thats the crucial point, those lines are only worth having as they are allready there with NO investment whereas the WRC is costing millions and would cost tens of millions to go futher than presently planned.

crocro · 11-02-2009 4:14pm

Stupido wrote: »

It is the economic viability reports that are the problem.

They have too narrow terms of reference, and don't take in wider economic implications.

Arguements rage over what should be factored in or out of these reports. The problem is often (esp. in the case of transport infrastructure) these are the difference of making a project viabile or not!

No matter what terms of reference, or socio-economic benefit calculator you use, nobody can justify spending 100s of millions on haevy rail to carry a few hundred journeys a day. The luas is not the world's greatest project but that's carrying 70-80K journeys a day. The WRC will carry in 3 months what the luas does in a day.

Meanwhile everyone in Galway and Limerick will continue to drive to work as there is no investment in a decent bus network or commuter rail services.

Stupido · 11-02-2009 4:17pm

you could extend that arguement and stop all investment on rural roads.....

corktina · 11-02-2009 5:04pm

WHAT investment in rural roads? they arent even filling the potholes down here...:(

Stupido · 11-02-2009 5:51pm

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=47

way to little in any case

Schuhart · 11-02-2009 5:57pm

Stupido wrote: »

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=47

way to little in any case

What would you suggest to be the right amount to spend, and on what basis?

spacetweek · 11-02-2009 6:54pm

Stupido wrote: »

you could extend that arguement and stop all investment on rural roads.....

No you couldn't, roads don't have a service provided on them at the public's expense, the motorist drives on the road under their own steam. Plus Ireland is very sparsely populated and railways just don't work under those conditions.

Carawaystick · 11-02-2009 11:09pm

crocro wrote: »

Meanwhile everyone in Galway and Limerick will continue to drive to work as there is no investment in a decent bus network or commuter rail services.

Galway bus services have improved a good deal in the last year or two. There is a bus every 15 mins from Ballybrit through Douisce and Merlinpark to the city centre pretty much all day, there's a bus lane all along the old N6 into the Huntsman.

Chris_533976 · 11-02-2009 11:17pm

Yet still Bus Eireann dont have a single service in any of the new Knocknacarra estates? City Direct I wouldnt even call a bus service, their buses look like they've been salvaged from a Destruction Derby. And their service isnt much better.

Judgement Day · 12-02-2009 12:42am

spacetweek wrote: »

No you couldn't, roads don't have a service provided on them at the public's expense, the motorist drives on the road under their own steam. Plus Ireland is very sparsely populated and railways just don't work under those conditions.

No, but the public purse pays for our roads and like so many other things (TDs, Gardai, Soldiers) Ireland is over provided for by roads. The Milne Report of 1947 highlighted the fact that then there were 4 times as many miles of road per head of population here as in Britian - God knows what the current situation is?

spacetweek · 17-02-2009 5:19pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

No, but the public purse pays for our roads and like so many other things (TDs, Gardai, Soldiers) Ireland is over provided for by roads. The Milne Report of 1947 highlighted the fact that then there were 4 times as many miles of road per head of population here as in Britian - God knows what the current situation is?

We are greatly under-provided for by roads. We are over-provided for by rural lanes - most of which are not fit to be driven on. With a 2500 km national network, and probably ten times as many regional roads, that still leaves around 70,000 kilometres of boreens. (100,000 - 25,000 - 2,500).

All boreens are unfit to be driven on, most regionals, and most national secondaries. That leaves around 1,000 k of good roads in the entire country, or 1 per cent!

SeanW · 17-02-2009 6:18pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

No, but the public purse pays for our roads and like so many other things (TDs, Gardai, Soldiers) Ireland is over provided for by roads. The Milne Report of 1947 highlighted the fact that then there were 4 times as many miles of road per head of population here as in Britian - God knows what the current situation is?

Yes. Try telling people in rural areas or in South Hill in Limerick that Ireland is over provided for in Guards ...

In 1947 was had a road network that we inherited from the British occupation, that was, and to a certain extent still is, adequate to our needs.

That said I rather imagine Ireland's population has increased somewhat since 1947, and since then what roads were added would primarily have been in 3 necessary areas:

1) Urban bypsess
2) Long distance roads, M-way and Dual Carriageway.
3) Housing estate/local streets

IIMII · 17-02-2009 7:56pm

corktina wrote: »

WHAT investment in rural roads? they arent even filling the potholes down here...:(

Not just there. I think that potholes are the first sign of cut-backs in public spending. There are massive holes appearing after the harsh weather all over the place up here, and some of them are literally HUGE. Saw my first cone in a hole last Fri for a while in one of the bigger/wider/deeper ones, with hand-written sign on top asking 'What do we pay road tax for?'

spacetweek · 23-02-2009 4:02pm

IIMII wrote: »

Not just there. I think that potholes are the first sign of cut-backs in public spending. There are massive holes appearing after the harsh weather all over the place up here, and some of them are literally HUGE. Saw my first cone in a hole last Fri for a while in one of the bigger/wider/deeper ones, with hand-written sign on top asking 'What do we pay road tax for?'

You talking about NI? There has been no cutback in regional road spending this year.

Western Rail Corridor

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