Western Rail Corridor

IIMII

You mean the six counties? No. Meath / Louth. There are lots of huge pot-holes here at the moment. There was also a severe shortage of road grit even before the big snow a few weeks ago. Whether it is cut-back related, self-curtailment, I don't know. I just know there are lots of big holes out there at present

Gruffalo

Why is everybody still complaining about this line. The Ennis to Athenry is almost complete and due to open this year. I think this line can be a lot more viable than people think if it is properly organised. After all there are many different types of customer who could use the service including:

1. Limerick bound commuters
2. Galway bound commuters
3. Daytrippers and tourists
4. Students - there are a few third level institutions in each city
5. People connecting for other services e.g. Galway - Dublin

Obviously it has not been done the best way. Galway to Athenry should have had a second line put down first with a couple of additional stops in addition to Oranmore. Bus routes could be organised to link the stations with places of work/study, residential areas etc. I think this should still be done before proceeding with the northern part of the line.

Cooperation is required from the relevant councils. Clare, Galway, Mayo and Sligo should adjust their development plans, if necessary, to ensure that future developments favour the WRC.

Basically put this railway line supports the National Spatial Strategy which aims to achieve a better social, economic and physical balance in the country. It identifies Limerick/Shannon, Galway and Sligo as key gateways and Ennis, Tuam and Ballina/Westport as hubs for development. The WRC links all of these places. WRC is an important piece of infrastructure and if done correctly it can play an important role in the development of the west.

btw I am not from the west myself.

corktina

the point is it links all those places...SLOWLY....and even slower if you put in more stops....oh and EXPENSIVELY....and if you are organising bus links from the stations, would it not be better, (ie cheaper and quicker) just to have a bus all the way in the first place?

Zoney

corktina:

I've pointed out that for various reasons, the bus will not be faster than train between Galway and Limerick. There could of course be an express introduced, but it would be unlikely that Ennis and Shannon can be left out for an express, as they are sufficiently major destinations to need all the buses they can get. Still, there's no doubt some bus time would be shaved off by skipping Bunratty, Gort, and any other small places.

It's unlikely the motorway/DC will help the bus, as the route north of Gort is longer and the bus can't travel at 120 km/h.

At various times of day traffic can be an issue for the bus at Limerick and Galway, although things are apparently improved in the case of the former now that there is bus lane on the Condell Road.

Chris_533976

Citylink are now more or less express between Limerick and Galway.

No Shannon or Ennis stops. 1 1/2 hours claimed.

Galway and Limerick traffic partly solved by bus lanes now. Crusheen - Gort will remove Gort as a bottleneck.

corktina

the bus is more frequent too AND reliefs can be put on at short notice, you cannot do this with rail.

If the BE bus were to stop in the same place as the train (ie hardly anywhere) it would be much quicker (and similarly practically empty no doubt)
and as Chris points out, Citylink are practically express between the cities and thus quicker still.

Why cant an express bus service leave out Shannon? The train does!

Sorry, but the investment being made here is a waste of money as time will tell...and THAT comes from a rail enthusiast of 40 years standing!

D'Peoples Voice

Gruffalo wrote: »

Cooperation is required from the relevant councils. Clare, Galway, Mayo and Sligo should adjust their development plans, if necessary, to ensure that future developments favour the WRC.

ah now, that type of talk could get you thrown out of Connaught!
Go back a few pages and you will see the population density along this line.
ffs the line won't even go through EITHER of the two(possibly three) biggest towns in Mayo. Think about that for a few minutes!
Put it another way, would there likely be more DAILY commuters going to Galway from Castlebar than from Sligo town.

As someone said earlier, a cheaper way of connecting Sligo to Galway and provide a more frequent service would be to run every second Dublin/Sligo train through Athlone. IE would have top spend money altering the existing Mullingar/Athlone track so it joins the track on the Dublin-Galway route.
After 12 years of squandering money, this WRC project will be the poster project of this Government's failure, people will all forget the Bertie Bowl.

Victor

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

As someone said earlier, a cheaper way of connecting Sligo to Galway and provide a more frequent service would be to run every second Dublin/Sligo train through Athlone.

Do you mean running Galway / Mayo trains through Mullingar?

Carawaystick

Zoney wrote: »

corktina:



It's unlikely the motorway/DC will help the bus, as the route north of Gort is longer and the bus can't travel at 120 km/h.

At various times of day traffic can be an issue for the bus at Limerick and Galway, although things are apparently improved in the case of the former now that there is bus lane on the Condell Road.

I don't think the train'll be going 120kmh either though. and the train will have to stop and turnaround in Athenry. and if there is a bit of rain the line will be closed for a month or so between Ennis and Limerick.

There's a bus lane from the Galway clinic roundabout in to the Huntsman in Galway now, with talk of making College road a bus only route soon too.

And if you don't like irish rail's train service, you can't get any other train service. If you don't like Citylink, you can get Bus Éireann, who have 14 services a day each way.

Gruffalo

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Go back a few pages and you will see the population density along this line.
ffs the line won't even go through EITHER of the two(possibly three) biggest towns in Mayo.

Actually if you pay attention to the map, the line does link to Westport, Ballina and Castlebar via Claremorris. And if you add up the populations of all the towns - including the 3 mentioned above, Galway, Oranmore and Limerick - connected by the line it totals over 250,000 and that is without going east of Sligo, Claremorris, Athenry or Limerick.

This line will not be heavily used from the beginning but is an important piece of infrastructure for the development of the West, in line with the National Spatial Strategy which aims to improve the balance within Ireland and to make all areas of the country sustainable.

invincibleirish

Gruffalo wrote: »

This line will not be heavily used from the beginning but is an important piece of infrastructure for the development of the West, in line with the National Spatial Strategy which aims to improve the balance within Ireland and to make all areas of the country sustainable.

Please stop qouting the NSS as some kind of justification for the WRC. It has failed completely because it was utterly compromised in its inception. It, like Decentralisation(and by extension i suppose our countries policies in building rail and motorways), has more to do with parish pump politics then ever providing a coherent strategy.

Gruffalo

Invincible Irish, you are entitled to your opinion but national Government policy is more important than your opinion.

invincibleirish

Gruffalo wrote: »

Invincible Irish, you are entitled to your opinion but national Government policy is more important than your opinion.

Its hardly an opinion to consider the NSS a failure. The record speaks for itself. Posting from Citywest are we;).

Gruffalo

invincibleirish wrote: »

Its hardly an opinion to consider the NSS a failure. The record speaks for itself. Posting from Citywest are we;).

Actually you are wrong on both counts. I have never been to citywest and as the NSS is due to run until 2020 what you have said is definitely an opinion.

For what it is worth, I am actually from the midlands although I am out of the country at the moment. I just believe in a better balanced Ireland. I am a supporter of the WRC but do not believe it should be rushed through. They should try and develop the route and increase the population a little more. Also, I believe it should be done step by step.

However, in my opinion, only a blind man could not see that we need to bring more balance to Ireland.

invincibleirish

Gruffalo wrote: »

Actually you are wrong on both counts. I have never been to citywest and as the NSS is due to run until 2020 what you have said is definitely an opinion.

For what it is worth, I am actually from the midlands although I am out of the country at the moment. I just believe in a better balanced Ireland. I am a supporter of the WRC but do not believe it should be rushed through. They should try and develop the route and increase the population a little more. Also, I believe it should be done step by step.

However, in my opinion, only a blind man could not see that we need to bring more balance to Ireland.

Ah the midlands - home to the infamous midlands gateway. Take it as opinion if you like but i'll put my house on the NSS being considered a failure in 2020(if its even remembered then).

I agree with your sentiments about trying to balance out development in Ireland. But the NSS isn't going to achieve this, its just a PR document.

Schuhart

Gruffalo wrote: »

only a blind man could not see that we need to bring more balance to Ireland.

I think the problem is that many of us feel only a blind man would think the WRC has anything to contribute to promotion of more balance in Ireland.

I think most here are perfectly supportive of effective regional development policies. But that's not the same as spending money on any old thing so long as its in the West.

Gruffalo

Schuhart wrote: »

I think the problem is that many of us feel only a blind man would think the WRC has anything to contribute to promotion of more balance in Ireland.

I think most here are perfectly supportive of effective regional development policies. But that's not the same as spending money on any old thing so long as its in the West.

It seems there are a lot of blind men running around then. As I have said, IF the WRC is done properly it can make a contribution to the promotion of more balance in Ireland and that will require the cooperation of all the key stakeholders. If they do not all cooperate then the line is definitely doomed.

Gruffalo

invincibleirish wrote: »

Ah the midlands - home to the infamous midlands gateway. Take it as opinion if you like but i'll put my house on the NSS being considered a failure in 2020(if its even remembered then).

I agree with your sentiments about trying to balance out development in Ireland. But the NSS isn't going to achieve this, its just a PR document.

I do not think that the NSS will achieve everything it sets out to achieve and it certainly is not the silver bullet, however it has at least led to investment in most of the places outlined in the policy. It now remains to be seen whether these policies will have any significant effect. I do think we have to give it a bit more time before we determine it a success or failure.

All I have previously said with the NSS is that it is Government policy and as such the WRC supports the policy.

I am aware that you are from Cork but most of the knockers of the WRC seem to be from the Dublin area or the Dublin commuter belt. The amount of money wasted over there has been astronomical and I think they would be better served campaigning for Dublin projects to be run more effectively.

invincibleirish

Gruffalo wrote: »

I do not think that the NSS will achieve everything it sets out to achieve and it certainly is not the silver bullet, however it has at least led to investment in most of the places outlined in the policy. It now remains to be seen whether these policies will have any significant effect. I do think we have to give it a bit more time before we determine it a success or failure.

All I have previously said with the NSS is that it is Government policy and as such the WRC supports the policy.

Well of course the WRC and the NSS match up, to use the parlance its fostering increased connectivity between 3 national gateways. But the NSS fails because it has so many primary and secondary gateways. For 4m people. And thats not including Dublin.

And yes it is Government policy, but the Government has consistently undermined it since they first launched it. No i take that back, the Government/Fianna Fail undermined the document by including so many different areas as to render the document useless on publication. It can't be taken seriously.

Gruffalo wrote: »

I am aware that you are from Cork but most of the knockers of the WRC seem to be from the Dublin area or the Dublin commuter belt. The amount of money wasted over there has been astronomical and I think they would be better served campaigning for Dublin projects to be run more effectively.

We're all Irish, we're all in this together. Parochialism gets us nowhere.

Schuhart

Gruffalo wrote: »

It seems there are a lot of blind men running around then. As I have said, IF the WRC is done properly it can make a contribution to the promotion of more balance in Ireland and that will require the cooperation of all the key stakeholders. If they do not all cooperate then the line is definitely doomed.

Indeed, but that co-operation would want to be in evidence through a commitment (for instance) to control the spread of one-off housing sprawl. Then, after many decades, you might find there was enough concentration of population for a rail line.

Gruffalo wrote: »

I am aware that you are from Cork but most of the knockers of the WRC seem to be from the Dublin area or the Dublin commuter belt. The amount of money wasted over there has been astronomical and I think they would be better served campaigning for Dublin projects to be run more effectively.

Oh, dear, another anti-Dublin fetishist.

Gruffalo

invincibleirish wrote: »

Well of course the WRC and the NSS match up, to use the parlance its fostering increased connectivity between 3 national gateways. But the NSS fails because it has so many primary and secondary gateways. For 4m people. And thats not including Dublin.

And yes it is Government policy, but the Government has consistently undermined it since they first launched it. No i take that back, the Government/Fianna Fail undermined the document by including so many different areas as to render the document useless on publication. It can't be taken seriously.

I do agree with you that there are too many gateways, and I think we should be concentrating on one or two areas at a time, hence why I think we should get Galway, Limerick, Cork in order before continuing with the northern part of the WRC.

We're all Irish, we're all in this together. Parochialism gets us nowhere.

Actually I do think that the areas outside Dublin have been ignored for too long and need to make their voices heard. I am not opposed to investment in Dublin, but I do think too much money has been wasted there, far more than the cost of the WRC.

Gruffalo

Schuhart wrote: »

Indeed, but that co-operation would want to be in evidence through a commitment (for instance) to control the spread of one-off housing sprawl. Then, after many decades, you might find there was enough concentration of population for a rail line.Oh, dear, another anti-Dublin fetishist.

I 100% agree with you that evidence in the form of commitment is required and you give an excellent example.

I am not however, an anti-Dublin Fetishist. I just believe that there has been a lot of money wasted in the Dublin area, which could have been better spent. I do not see why there should be a problem with asking for the more effective use of public finances in Dublin. And I do think that the areas outside Dublin need to make their voices heard with regard to attracting investment in there areas.

Schuhart

Gruffalo wrote: »

Actually I do think that the areas outside Dublin have been ignored for too long and need to make their voices heard. I am not opposed to investment in Dublin, but I do think too much money has been wasted there, far more than the cost of the WRC.

The actual position is that Dublin's infrastructure needs were ignored until the need became critical, while the West of Ireland was paved with unneeded airports. The reason for this is that any investment in Dublin is resented by anti-Dublin fetishists.

Gruffalo

Schuhart wrote: »

The actual position is that Dublin's infrastructure needs were ignored until the need became critical, while the West of Ireland was paved with unneeded airports. The reason for this is that any investment in Dublin is resented by anti-Dublin fetishists.

What a load of rubbish. Dublin's infrastucture was planned in an unorganised and ineffective way as witnessed by the need to build the interconnecter to try and link it all up and make some sense of it. Further evidence is the idiotic decision not to link up the original Luas lines. There is plenty of money invested in Dublin, and if they were not so busy wasting it, they would have the money to build the much needed Navan line.

Wanting investment in areas outside Dublin does not make someone an Anti-Dublin fetishist.

invincibleirish

Gruffalo wrote: »

I do agree with you that there are too many gateways, and I think we should be concentrating on one or two areas at a time, hence why I think we should get Galway, Limerick, Cork in order before continuing with the northern part of the WRC..

Yeah but think about your logic for a second. You support the WRC because it connects Galway-Limerick-Cork. But it doesn't really. Its just an upgrade of a twisty single track line between Ennis-Galway with stations in villages. And These cities don't need to be connected to small towns in WRC phases 2&3. They are irrelevant in the national context.

Gruffalo wrote: »

Actually I do think that the areas outside Dublin have been ignored for too long and need to make their voices heard. I am not opposed to investment in Dublin, but I do think too much money has been wasted there, far more than the cost of the WRC.

I beg to differ, the GDA is the economic engine for this country. And i tire of every two bit town and the Pols that represent them trying to get their share of the goodies. The NSS & Decentralisation are 2 potentially good programmes that could have helped stimulate the national economy if properly planned and executed. But they weren't.

invincibleirish

Gruffalo wrote: »

Further evidence is the idiotic decision not to link up the original Luas lines.

This women



Who represents this area



Thought it best the 2 luas lines should not join up. Hardly Dublins fault.

Gruffalo

invincibleirish wrote: »

Yeah but think about your logic for a second. You support the WRC because it connects Galway-Limerick-Cork. But it doesn't really. Its just an upgrade of a twisty single track line between Ennis-Galway with stations in villages. And These cities don't need to be connected to small towns in WRC phases 2&3. They are irrelevant in the national context.


I beg to differ, the GDA is the economic engine for this country. And i tire of every two bit town and the Pols that represent them trying to get their share of the goodies. The NSS & Decentralisation are 2 potentially good programmes that could have helped stimulate the national economy if properly planned and executed. But they weren't.

As you have already said we are all Irish. Therefore there is nowhere irrelevant in the national context. Public services have to be provided to all parts of the country so we should aim to make all areas sustainable. This should be a long-term goal.

I didn't actually say that the WRC connects Galway, Limerick and Cork. I said that we should first focus on developing these regions before continuing with the remainder of the WRC. Although if you live somewhere like Ennis you might feel that you are connected by rail to all 3 cities, that would be a personal opinion.

Gruffalo

invincibleirish wrote: »

This women



Who represents this area



Thought it best the 2 luas lines should not join up. Hardly Dublins fault.

1. I said the money is being wasted in Dublin. I did not say by Dublin people.
2. I am not from Longford or Westmeath so if that was an attempt to offend me, you have failed miserably.

invincibleirish

Gruffalo wrote: »

As you have already said we are all Irish. Therefore there is nowhere irrelevant in the national context. Public services have to be provided to all parts of the country so we should aim to make all areas sustainable. This should be a long-term goal.

But herein lies your contradiction. You consider providing railways as a public service. Where most of the Irish public is located, the GDA, railways services are limited by creaking infrastructure and lack of investment. Naturally you would assume that investment in rail should be where its needed. Its needed in urban Dublin and not rural Clare and Galway.

Gruffalo wrote: »

I didn't actually say that the WRC connects Galway, Limerick and Cork. I said that we should first focus on developing these regions before continuing with the remainder of the WRC. Although if you live somewhere like Ennis you might feel that you are connected by rail to all 3 cities, that would be a personal opinion.

If we want to start talking about developing regions, first we as a nation have to be honest with ourselves and ask exactly what kind of development are we looking to promote and how can we achieve it.

invincibleirish

Gruffalo wrote: »

1. I said the money is being wasted in Dublin. I did not say by Dublin people.
2. I am not from Longford or Westmeath so if that was an attempt to offend me, you have failed miserably.

I wasn't trying to rile you, but making the point its hard to say 'Dublin' has wasted money when it has been national decision makers like Schuhart said, which have hindered its infrastructural development in favour of developing green field infrastructure in the provinces.