Western Rail Corridor

IIMII · 06-03-2009 8:21pm

Well Gruffalo, you have your own opinions and you are well read in terms of west-lit. Hats off to you, you've rekindled a fatiqued debate. But I think we may see a real budget addressing the real economic situation in the upcoming mini-budget, and I wouldn't be surpised if T21 cuts across the board are part of it. Or put back or delayed, in politico-speak. I wouldn't like to be Noel Dempsey if Navan is cut - he has been delivering it since before the Luas lines were proposed (1995 anyway), and I don't think he'll like Dempsey Delivers replaced by Dempsey Dithered (and blew the boom). Whereas nobody moved anywhere on the backs of WRC rail promises, plenty moved to Meath on the backs of the Navan link promises. If all new projects are put on hold in the mini-budget at least the West will have gotten 38km of rail back to link Limerick and Galway. I think Meath will have less than 2km of reopened track actually within the county boundary. asiest thing to do will be to merge all threads into one thread, Transport 21 (the Semi & the Undelivered)

Judgement Day · 07-03-2009 12:34am

corktina wrote: »

actually most of us believe that the northern end should be ploughed into the soil and sold of in as many parcels as possible so that our Children and greandchildren et al wont have to pay for it as well as the millstone that will prove to be the southern section

Corktina - I'm sure that I read on one of your posts that you're a railway enthusiast of many years standing - can you confirm or deny? If you are an enthusiast I don't how you can square it with the above statement.

Incidentally, you don't speak for me despite the fact that I am highly critical of the current WRC re-opening. I am critical of the wasteful way that it is being reopened and I don't believe CIE/IE are capable of restoring rail services properly given their previous record. If the line is to be re-opened its operation should be put out to tender and IE excluded from tendering. The Burma Road should be retained for possible future use and your suggestion of selling off the land is outrageous - is it all a case of sour grapes with you given what CIE did to Cork's once extensive rail system?

Gruffalo · 07-03-2009 12:36am

IIMII wrote: »

Well Gruffalo, you have your own opinions and you are well read in terms of west-lit. Hats off to you, you've rekindled a fatiqued debate. But I think we may see a real budget addressing the real economic situation in the upcoming mini-budget, and I wouldn't be surpised if T21 cuts across the board are part of it. Or put back or delayed, in politico-speak. I wouldn't like to be Noel Dempsey if Navan is cut - he has been delivering it since before the Luas lines were proposed (1995 anyway), and I don't think he'll like Dempsey Delivers replaced by Dempsey Dithered (and blew the boom). Whereas nobody moved anywhere on the backs of WRC rail promises, plenty moved to Meath on the backs of the Navan link promises. If all new projects are put on hold in the mini-budget at least the West will have gotten 38km of rail back to link Limerick and Galway. I think Meath will have less than 2km of reopened track actually within the county boundary. asiest thing to do will be to merge all threads into one thread, Transport 21 (the Semi & the Undelivered)

IIMII, I have already said that I dont think that the way these things are decided are fair and we need clear and open procedure for deciding where infrastructure is to go, something like the way Cork did it for the Midleton line. As well as the reason for the decision, there should be other important info such as how many residents a town should have before it should get a station. I just dont think it is a reason for some of the posters who have been hitting out at the West. If the truth is to be told, such decisions in Ireland are a game and the West played that game well. Its the old adage of hate the game dont hate the player.

Unfortunately, I think you are right about the emergency budget. I think some of these projects will be put on the long finger. Personally, I think this would be wrong. I like Cowen as a person, I grew up in the same town as him, but I fear he lacks the balls to make the critical decisions. If the Government is to reduce projects, I think the main priorities should be the Interconnecter and then Metro North. These should be done as they can create a lot of work and they are vital infrastructure. If it were a choice between the next phase of the WRC and Navan, then I do not see a problem with Navan been given the nod.

I think the WRC should be built, and that goal of a rail link to Knock airport should be met by 2020. But step by step can do that.

IIMII · 07-03-2009 2:28am

Gruffalo wrote: »

we need clear and open procedure for deciding where infrastructure is to go, something like the way Cork did it for the Midleton line.

Gruffalo wrote: »

Its the old adage of hate the game dont hate the player.

Agree 100%.

IIMII · 07-03-2009 10:36am

Gruffalo wrote: »

I like Cowen as a person, I grew up in the same town as him

Going off topic, but just wondering if you might be able to answer a question about Clara? The old railway bridge that crosses the main street (the former Clara-Streamstown line) is gone from the point that it hits the river Brosna - was it a girder or arched bridge and do you know why that part was demolished whilst the section over the main street still stands?

corktina · 07-03-2009 10:52am

Judgement Day wrote: »

Corktina - I'm sure that I read on one of your posts that you're a railway enthusiast of many years standing - can you confirm or deny? If you are an enthusiast I don't how you can square it with the above statement.

Incidentally, you don't speak for me despite the fact that I am highly critical of the current WRC re-opening. I am critical of the wasteful way that it is being reopened and I don't believe CIE/IE are capable of restoring rail services properly given their previous record. If the line is to be re-opened its operation should be put out to tender and IE excluded from tendering. The Burma Road should be retained for possible future use and your suggestion of selling off the land is outrageous - is it all a case of sour grapes with you given what CIE did to Cork's once extensive rail system?

I am indeed an enthusiast of many years standing, but you have to have some common sense too. Yes, Id love to see all the old lines re-opened and
J15's puffing along them or class 121's and half a doz Cravens or the Old County Donegal put back just as it was with bright red 2-6-4t's just like the picture in my sitting room, but it has to make sense economically as well and there is just no logic to re-opening this line at all on ANY level. Even the Limerick to Galway part is seriously flawed in that it is trying to provide local services, commuter services and Inter City trains all on a single, twisty indirect speed-restricted line, shortly to be in competition with a modern dual carriageway road.

DWCommuter · 07-03-2009 11:21pm

corktina wrote: »

I am indeed an enthusiast of many years standing, but you have to have some common sense too. Yes, Id love to see all the old lines re-opened and
J15's puffing along them or class 121's and half a doz Cravens or the Old County Donegal put back just as it was with bright red 2-6-4t's just like the picture in my sitting room, but it has to make sense economically as well and there is just no logic to re-opening this line at all on ANY level. Even the Limerick to Galway part is seriously flawed in that it is trying to provide local services, commuter services and Inter City trains all on a single, twisty indirect speed-restricted line, shortly to be in competition with a modern dual carriageway road.

That sorts the men from the boys for me anyway.

Gruffalo · 08-03-2009 1:05am

IIMII wrote: »

Going off topic, but just wondering if you might be able to answer a question about Clara? The old railway bridge that crosses the main street (the former Clara-Streamstown line) is gone from the point that it hits the river Brosna - was it a girder or arched bridge and do you know why that part was demolished whilst the section over the main street still stands?

I am afraid I am not old enough to remember that bridge. The one that goes over the road serves absolutley no purpose that I am aware of. If you walk up the old embankment you would not even realise that there had been a railway there until you discover the odd sleeper. Strangely for a town with a strong railway history you never hear much about it around Clara.

Gruffalo · 08-03-2009 1:50am

DWCommuter wrote: »

That sorts the men from the boys for me anyway.

We can try and pretend that comment does not smell of sour grapes. But as you are determined that this thing will be a disaster, and you are a film maker why not enter the following:

http://www.westontrack.com/competition_for_itouch.pdf

It does not say that it has to be pro WRC.

Judgement Day · 08-03-2009 12:45pm

Good suggestion Gruffalo! Maybe Derek could use the theme music from Titantic, Jaws or some other disaster movie. It could be called The 2nd Great Train Robbery.

Pisser Dignam · 08-03-2009 8:18pm

A national rail network really does make sense. Unfortunately ours doesn't.

DWCommuter · 08-03-2009 10:20pm

Gruffalo wrote: »

We can try and pretend that comment does not smell of sour grapes. But as you are determined that this thing will be a disaster, and you are a film maker why not enter the following:

http://www.westontrack.com/competition_for_itouch.pdf

It does not say that it has to be pro WRC.

For a start Gruffalo, at this stage of the game I really couldn't give a fiddlers fart if this line opens in its entirety. The positives and negatives have been debated ad nauseum for nearly 5 years. The sour grapes have long since dried up and disappeared. I accept its reopening because of an inept Government. The WRC is just another detail in a record of disasterous transport planning.

As for the competition. Thanks for the link. But I can assure you that if I was to translate the majority opinion on this forum into a professionally produced 10 minute video, I can guarantee WOT won't show it. When I featured in newspaper articles expressing an opinion about the WRC, they never included it in the press section of their web site. They don't do balance. They don't do alternative views. Its a one trick pony, on a one way track to a single trough.

Victor · 08-03-2009 11:44pm

dowlingm wrote: »

after all, buses (presumably BE) are marked as connections to Limerick Junction on journeys between Waterford and Killarney on irishrail.ie

Are you sure? Was that just for a particular date when there was a service disruption?

Gruffalo · 09-03-2009 12:13am

DWCommuter wrote: »

As for the competition. Thanks for the link. But I can assure you that if I was to translate the majority opinion on this forum into a professionally produced 10 minute video, I can guarantee WOT won't show it. When I featured in newspaper articles expressing an opinion about the WRC, they never included it in the press section of their web site. They don't do balance. They don't do alternative views. Its a one trick pony, on a one way track to a single trough.

I still think you should do a vid but obviously thats your choice. All though I am in favour of the WRC, I agree 100% that WOT do not do balance. You would think that the train line was going to find the cure for cancer or something like that.

KC61 · 09-03-2009 1:27pm

dowlingm wrote: »

after all, buses (presumably BE) are marked as connections to Limerick Junction on journeys between Waterford and Killarney on irishrail.ie

That was during some engineering works - the connections are listed as rail connections normally.

dowlingm · 09-03-2009 3:00pm

It was at the time of the Cullen helicopter door fiasco last week - for the mad I decided to see how connection times by rail compared and there must have been relaying going on at the time. I see it's back to trains now.

Poxyshamrock · 05-04-2009 11:11pm

So does anyone know the date for the opening? roughly?

Judgement Day · 05-04-2009 11:50pm

This Summer according to IE so that should be sometime in 2010.

Victor · 09-04-2009 10:09pm

It was meant to open during the summer, but that has been put off.

DWCommuter · 09-04-2009 11:31pm

Rumour has it that it might not open for service at all.

Nostradamus · 10-04-2009 12:50pm

DWCommuter wrote: »

Rumour has it that it might not open for service at all.

I heard some headcase councillor screaming on the radio about this the other day about this. I only half caught the interview as I was listening in a shop with it in the background but something about there is not going to be a regular commuter service on the Ennis line, IE are just going to divert midday inter-city services from Dublin over it?

Who knows with the way things are going. Personally I think the government are far too corawdly to not give them their 8 trains a day. Unless they are going to leave the decision in IE's hands as how to operate the line. Now considiering one of the West-on-Trackers is on another board demanding that Irish Rail be abolished as they only care about the Interconnector - might lend some truth to the speculation that something is going down alright.

Tadhg17 · 10-04-2009 1:24pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

I heard some headcase councillor screaming on the radio about this the other day about this. I only half caught the interview as I was listening in a shop with it in the background but something about there is not going to be a regular commuter service on the Ennis line, IE are just going to divert midday inter-city services from Dublin over it?

Who knows with the way things are going. Personally I think the government are far too corawdly to not give them their 8 trains a day. Unless they are going to leave the decision in IE's hands as how to operate the line. Now considiering one of the West-on-Trackers is on another board demanding that Irish Rail be abolished as they only care about the Interconnector - might lend some truth to the speculation that something is going down alright.

Why would they drop the commuter service on the Ennis line for just midday services? They would be more people using the service in the morning and evenings than during the day. I read that there will be 5 trains a day going Limerick to Galway not 8?

A year ago they were saying on Clare FM that the Ennis train service might have less services to Limerick/Dublin when they re-open the line to Athenry which might now be happening

Gruffalo · 10-04-2009 1:52pm

Well if the rumours are true, then this should be a fun day out:

http://www.westontrack.com/WRC09_1.pdf

http://www.westontrack.com/WRC09_2.pdf

Anyone thinking of going?:)

Nostradamus · 10-04-2009 2:37pm

Gruffalo wrote: »

Well if the rumours are true, then this should be a fun day out:

http://www.westontrack.com/WRC09_1.pdf

http://www.westontrack.com/WRC09_2.pdf

Anyone thinking of going?:)

No cutbacks in Civil Service waste then...

How much is this exercise in naval gazing and clerical indulgences costing I wonder?

Gruffalo · 10-04-2009 3:26pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

No cutbacks in Civil Service waste then...

How much is this exercise in naval gazing and clerical indulgences costing I wonder?

God only knows.

It is time for them to come clean about what is happening. If they are going to run the service, fair enough. If they are not then it is time for them to come clean about it.

Ham'nd'egger · 10-04-2009 4:10pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

No cutbacks in Civil Service waste then...

How much is this exercise in naval gazing and clerical indulgences costing I wonder?

€100 per delegate, as per the application form.

Nostradamus · 10-04-2009 4:28pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

€100 per delegate, as per the application form.

I meant how much are they channeling from the public coffers into the WDC to fund this bizarre get together? Even with that I would imagine that most of the 100 euro payments will be delgates from the CoCo's and so on who will be attending at taxpayers expense.

Will Dempsey be getting there by helicopter?

DWCommuter · 10-04-2009 6:42pm

Nostradamus wrote: »

I meant how much are they channeling from the public coffers into the WDC to fund this bizarre get together? Even with that I would imagine that most of the 100 euro payments will be delgates from the CoCo's and so on who will be attending at taxpayers expense.

Will Dempsey be getting there by helicopter?

Its identical to the gig they put on in Castlebar in 2005. Virtually the same speakers. Swap Dempsey for Cullen and you're on the pigs back. It was then full of council staff and state agency staff on junkets. There were the usual crew of trainspotters come experts aswell. Then me on a mission to make up with WOT and ask them to support other rail projects in the west of Ireland. The answer......No. You can but try.

Judgement Day · 10-04-2009 10:32pm

Gruffalo wrote: »

Well if the rumours are true, then this should be a fun day out:

http://www.westontrack.com/WRC09_1.pdf

http://www.westontrack.com/WRC09_2.pdf

Anyone thinking of going?:)

Reminds me of a similar meeting that I attended last year - about preserving Ireland's Transport Heritage - many of the same faces too. Still it keeps them warm as otherwise they might have to resort to drinking cider outside the Customs House. Probably be as constructive as the Transport Heritage meeting too! I can think of many other better ways of spending €100 but, of course, most of those attending this bean feast will be being paid for by the public purse.

www.irishrailways.blogspot.com

Poxyshamrock · 11-04-2009 1:17pm

Tadhg17 wrote: »

A year ago they were saying on Clare FM that the Ennis train service might have less services to Limerick/Dublin when they re-open the line to Athenry which might now be happening

But Ennis is closer to Limerick than Galway?

Western Rail Corridor

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