Western Rail Corridor

Nostradamus

The WRC north is all but officially finished. The recent Mayo gig was little more than a wake. Apart from the fact the guy knows nothing about railways, this article overall is a refreshingly well-written (if classically hysterical) piece of journalism from the Western Media. He hasn't been completely brainwashed by the bull****ters.

Raimeis Rail - the West sold down the line yet again

From the : "Tuam Herald"BY TONY GALVIN

IF ever there was a sign that this Government is just marking time until the EU or the IMF comes in and bails us out, it was the gratuitously contemptuous way the Minister for Transport, Noel Dempsey, last Friday in Claremorris fobbed off campaigners for the opening of a Western Rail Corridor with platitudes and plamas.

Dempsey and his cohorts are just counting down the days left to keep the budget deficit low enough that either the EU or the IMF will reward us with the big bailout next year. Reining in public spending definitely doesn't entail meeting commitments on rail projects that won little enough support when the coffers were overflowing, never mind now that there's nothing there but a big black hole.

But the game has to be played and there are elections next month so the Minister floats in, talks from both side of his mouth while still saying nothing and actually had the neck to take umbrage when challenged, admittedly by a political opponent, Labour Euro candidate Susan O'Keefe.
I've been at more launches than President McAleese. Heard more announcements than Charlie Bird. Sat through more disingenuous waffle from politicians than the Planning Tribunal but on Friday last I experienced a new sensation in my role as a journalist - I was embarrassed for those being publicly insulted by Minister Dempsey.

This Minister, like most of his ilk, has the mouth of a whale but the backbone of a jellyfish. Had he even a modicum of respect for those who have laboured for so long in the cause of the Western Rail Corridor, he Would have taken his courage in his hands and told the gathering in Claremorris that the project was being mothballed for the foreseeable future - sweetening the pill somewhat with a commitment to keep it on file.

But instead he insulted their intelligence with a load of raimeis about monitoring the passenger numbers using the Ennis to Athenry link that is set to open in September. If these numbers measure up, then yet another new report will be commissioned to see if Phase II, the Athenry to Tuam line, is feasible.

Bear in mind that Phase II was understood to have already been cleared and the first trains were due to arrive in Tuam by 2011. Phase III from Tuam to Claremorris was due to open a few years later.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong but I can't see a train in Tuam again until at least 2025, if ever. There's no need to outline the budgetary constraints now controlling our public finances but anyone who believes investment will be found to fund this stretch of rail in the next decade is ignoring economic reality. The current aspiration is to have public finances back on track by 2016. The banks and developers have to be sorted and then we have a little matter of unemployment heading for 500,000 to sort out. Can we really believe money will be found for a rail project few outside the West actually believe is viable?

Even if the Government were sincere in its support, which I doubt, CIE will take this opportunity to kick it to touch and bury it for years. The company was happy enough to play along with the politically expedient fiction that the Ennis-Athenry line is the first part of the Western Rail Corridor. In reality, this line links Galway city with Limerick, Cork and the port of Waterford and once that's up and running the lip service to a rail corridor running along the West coast will go the way of the old Galway-Clifden line. [WTF!!!!]

Let's be honest with ourselves. Any investment in infrastructure for the foreseeable future will be concentrated almost exclusively on new roads linking Dublin to the major centres of population and industry. Tuam or the Western region, excluding Galway, does not come high on this priority list I'm using Tuam as an example because it's one most readers are familiar with, but almost any town of similar size in the region would suffice. There is a discernible pattern developing.

Because of the nature of localised politics in Ireland no Government can come right out and state bluntly that the town is not on their priority list it simply doesn't figure in the big plan. So a hospital is promised but never delivered. An IDA park is built but left empty to rot. Grandiose plans are drawn up to run a motorway from here to link with the new Dublin-Galway route which I don't believe will see the light of day in my lifetime. Even the Tuam by-pass, needed as much to free up the blockage on the Nl7 as to alleviate congestion in Tuam town itself, has been given the long-finger treatment.

And despite the fact that Tuam can't even hold on to its Town Engineer, we are supposed to believe that millions will be found to run a new rail link to the town Dream on.

Now I have to admit to a partisan bias here. As a journalist I've ringfenced my objectivity for years on the Western Rail Corridor issue and supported it whole-heartedly. I was never convinced by the economic arguments put forward by its supporters but the idea that frontloading infrastructural investment would serve to prime the investment and development pump grabbed me.

Besides, why did the West have to continually show how the corridor could make a profit when on the East coast multiples of the investment costs were being spent without any hope of ever returning a profit, when running costs were taken into consideration. The simple expedient of facilitating commerce is enough to justify the cost of LUAS and the awaited Metro system so why not in the West on an infinitely smaller scale.

But the West, like Sisyphus, is forever condemned to push the rock of fiscal rectitude up Revenue's slope while the east gets a downhill freewheel. And sadly, just as we reach the summit on the Western Rail Corridor, we're facing a pit called long and protracted recession on the other side.

DSE

invincibleirish

Not much bitterness in the last 2 paragraphs now is there? even the journo's play the western victimhood angle:rolleyes:.

Nostradamus

invincibleirish wrote: »

Not much bitterness in the last 2 paragraphs now is there? even the journo's play the western victimhood angle:rolleyes:.

That's because West on Track was only ever cared about Athenry - north. They'll never admit it, but that's all the whole gig ever was for them.

IIMII

Tuam Herald wrote: »

As a journalist I've ringfenced my objectivity for years on the Western Rail Corridor issue and supported it whole-heartedly. I was never convinced by the economic arguments put forward by its supporters

:eek:

Nostradamus

IIMII wrote: »

:eek:

Says it all doesn't it. "Yeah it's a joke, but we still want it!"

Schuhart

I notice that in the online edition he provides an email address - tgalvin@tuamherald.ie.

I don't see the harm in introducing Tony to the interactive nature of the e-webulator. I've a half idea of sending him a calm message (in other words, typing out what I actually think of his article and throwing it away, and then writing a response that he might actually read past the first sentence).

Seriously, no point in bitching to each other and cuffing any random "Save the West" type who might stumble on to this thread. I know at the end of the day Tony's only interested in writing articles that the people of Tuam will want to read. But there's no harm, to my mind, in bursting any illusions he might have that he'd doing anything more meaningful.

serfboard

Nostradamus wrote: »

That's because West on Track was only ever cared about Athenry - north. They'll never admit it, but that's all the whole gig ever was for them.

Correct.

DWCommuter

Nostradamus wrote: »

That's because West on Track was only ever cared about Athenry - north. They'll never admit it, but that's all the whole gig ever was for them.

Well Im looking at a really big book at the moment. Its WOTs first "report". It clearly lists reopening the Northern sections first. They don't have to admit anything. Its on record. They can never deny it.

westtip

Minister O'Cuiv on the May 1st conference said in his speech: “I would like to take the opportunity to pose a question and that is should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway? The Claremorris to Collooney stretch of the railway line will not start before 2014 and its use as a walkway and cycleway would solve a lot of encroachment issues in the meantime. It is something for us to think about”


Clearly the thinking now is lets use this part of the line for something useful - if you agree with these thoughts go (and I do BTW) go on the west on tack website click through to their youtube site and make your comments known on Youtube that the truth is the section north of Claremorris won't happen, we all know it, WOT know it, the dogs on street know it - so I urge you to follow the links suggested and if you have a you tube id to post a note to let WOT they are wasting their time....and lets use this section of line for something the general public might actually use....

spacetweek

westtip wrote: »

"The Claremorris to Collooney stretch of the railway line will not start before 2034 and its use as a walkway and cycleway would solve a lot of encroachment issues in the meantime. ”

I corrected an error there.

As for the Tony journo, he actually sounds like he knows something about transport - he's on the money about roads near Dublin and the lack of an economic case for WRC. I don't agree with people bashing him for saying he supports it anyway - he's just saying he knows it doesn't make economic sense, he's in favour of it as an economic stimulant, and for social reasons. That's not too bad - for a country with lots of money to spare. This isn't one anymore.

I thought about Athenry-Tuam a bit a while back and compared it to the Midleton extension. It links a smaller population base (4600 vs 11,000*) to a nearby city, but the problem is that it is much, much further away from Galway than Midleton is to Cork. That reduces its economic case somewhat. And as for the extensions further north - forget it. They would require a Gov in favour of greatly increasing the IE subsidy.

* Combined Carrigtwohill + Midleton, from Wiki.

westtip

spacetweek wrote: »

I corrected an error there.

.

Yes I agree O'Cuiv would have been more honest to say 2034 as you amended (sic) in the quote from his speech. Nevertheless it is an idea he asked WOT to consider - I think he was saying between the lines - Get real lads - this idea will work won't cost a fortune and if you play ball we might (just might) complete the line to Tuam. What gets me about WOT is they take the moral highground saying "we speak for the impoverished west" Well hold on - a lot of people out west would much rather see energy going into getting the N18 Atlantic corridor project completed! And a decent road running east/west straddling the border ie Sligo Enniskillen Cavan Dundalk - which would bring a lot more visitors to the (north) West at least. I have banged on about the cycleway/path for the collooney claremorris section for years, the bbc (bbc4) just ran a series of programmes about walkways on old rail lines - much used by visitors to the UK - just visit the bbc website and search on walking railways or such like.

I take heart from O'Cuivs speech - it may be the turning point for the Collooney/Claremorris debacle - and not before time.

Sponge Bob

westtip wrote: »

I take heart from O'Cuivs speech - it may be the turning point for the Collooney/Claremorris debacle - and not before time.

Not at all, you are very short sighted westtip .

This particular project has scaled up from €300m in January 2005 to €640m in March 2009 and the latter costing was announced AFTER the Claremorris conference was planned . In fact the €640m will only cover some of the cost .

Cooloney - Claremorris is therefore essential , Eamonn O Cuiv is wrong !

D'Peoples Voice

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Not at all, you are very short sighted westtip .

This particular project has scaled up from €300m in January 2005 to €640m in March 2009 and the latter costing was announced AFTER the Claremorris conference was planned . In fact the €640m will only cover some of the cost .

What EUR 640m could do for some of the towns in the West:rolleyes:
It has been discussed before, but when money is scarce, it needs to be prioritised and i don't think the people of the west would sooner see money wasted on a loss-making railway than into projects that might create employment.

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Not at all, you are very short sighted westtip .

This particular project has scaled up from €300m in January 2005 to €640m in March 2009 and the latter costing was announced AFTER the Claremorris conference was planned . In fact the €640m will only cover some of the cost .

Cooloney - Claremorris is therefore essential , Eamonn O Cuiv is wrong !

No - Eamon O'Cuiv is saying it as it is - that in reality Colooney Claremorris will not happen, why on earth is Colooney -Claremorris essential? and there simply won't be demand to use it despite all the drivel from West on Track; Are we really saying build this white elephant and see it lose more money year on year, we all know it won't happen and personally I don't think phase 2 or 3 will hapen before 2025, the truth is we can talk about this wretched project ad finitum and all that will happen is that the likes of WOT will have us all believe their pipe dream is going to become a reality - in the meantime we are giving up the chance to have a great piece of tourism infrastructure put in place because of the ego's of few fanatics in WOT.

westtip

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

What EUR 640m could do for some of the towns in the West:rolleyes:
It has been discussed before, but when money is scarce, it needs to be prioritised and i don't think the people of the west would sooner see money wasted on a loss-making railway than into projects that might create employment.

Spot on - the money spent on the N18 would create jobs and improve the commerce of the West - lets not waste any more time on the debate about this complete and utter waste of money if it happens. BTW the wlaking and cycling trail I proposed for the circa 50 miles of Collooney Claremorris would cost about 3 million tops and would create a real tourist attraction that would actually bring money into the area... hey ho

Neworder79

More fuel for the fire:

750,000 passengers yearly for Sligo/Derry rail

http://oceanfm.ie/news/2009/05/19/study-shows-750000-could-use-sligoderry-rail-link/

westtip

Neworder79 wrote: »

More fuel for the fire:

750,000 passengers yearly for Sligo/Derry rail

http://oceanfm.ie/news/2009/05/19/study-shows-750000-could-use-sligoderry-rail-link/

Thats not fuel for the fire its having a laugh! Suggest they read the article in the Irish Times last week about the Limerick Junction - Waterford line The most lightly used lines in the country actual passenger numbers:

Most lightly used:

Ballybrophy-Limerick Commuter: 36,000

Limerick Junction-Waterford Intercity: 54,000

I suppose if you tried to open these lines today the protagnists would talk in the same silly numbers as ocean FM are about 750,000 potential users a year!

What is absolutely critical between Sligo and Derry is the Atlantic Corridor road, the N18 north of Sligo to Balbriggan is a death trap, which many poor souls have unfornately and sadly lost their lives on.

If you want to actually let West on Track know your views on this matter (Claremorris-Collooney) then register them on their you tube site at http://www.youtube.com/user/westernrail if they actually see what people think it might wake them up.

rekrow

The problem is that they just blindly assume that if someone makes a car journey along a route they will automatically use a raillink if it is provided. There are signs up in Claregalway telling people that the first phase of the WRC is coming soon with the second phase coming soon. If traffic counts going in the general direction of a railline are being use as a justification it is just going to be a red herring. Unless there is a serious carrot people are not going to give up their cars. It would be interesting to see if they presold tickets with an incentive of a 20% discount on first year rail tickets how many takers would they get.

road_high

Anybody watch the Eco eye and the WRC videos on Youtube.
Dear God is all I can say. Nobody is using the existing line between Limerick and Waterford, why pray tell then is Limerick-Galway going to be any different?

"We project 900,000-1 million passengers between Mayo and Limerick"...as far as I know that's higher than Waterford-Dublin and Rosslare-Dublin currently ffs. Long established lines with biggish towns and lots of Dublin commuters.I don't know where they get/make up their figures.

road_high

Sligo city now is the 5th largest city in the country now apparently. Gas

D'Peoples Voice

mfitzy wrote: »

Sligo city now is the 5th largest city in the country now apparently. Gas

yeah, that doesn't quite sit right with this map
http://www.irishtimes.com/timeseye/whoweare/poster.htm

It will be interesting to see what this map looks like in the next Census - after this credit crisis:(

road_high

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

yeah, that doesn't quite sit right with this map
http://www.irishtimes.com/timeseye/whoweare/poster.htm

It will be interesting to see what this map looks like in the next Census - after this credit crisis:(

If I'm not mistaken the population of Sligo actually fell during the last census, so that hardly bodes well in these times.
Looking at the Irish times map, draw a line from Dundalk to Cork and most of the read and orange areas fall to the east of it.

Poxyshamrock

mfitzy wrote: »

Sligo city now is the 5th largest city in the country now apparently. Gas

Sligo city...will you go away

invincibleirish

Who cares about whats the 5th city and whats not, a foreign visitor to Ireland would think we were a land of multiple metropolis' by looking at a map, until they arrive at Waterford/Galway/Sligo international airports!.

The relationship between parochial ego & infrastructure provision is one that needs to be ended pronto.

Tarabuses

mfitzy wrote: »

Sligo city now is the 5th largest city in the country now apparently. Gas

When did Sligo become a city?

westtip

Tarabuses wrote: »

When did Sligo become a city?

Now now lads - it became a Gateway before it became a City. - it remains a town BTW. Ref the argument about number of cars = number of people going to jump on the train - these kind of surveys are done by nerds sitting on the side of the road clicking their little counters and saying - now there goes another mother taking her kids to school and popping into the local shop to buy milk and a loaf - now why on earth can't she be sensible and do the journey by train.

Ergo - they create simplistic arguments that say put the train line back cos all these people in their cars are going to jump on the next train and throw away the massive freedom they enjoy driving a motorised vehicle- and when they get to real transport planning economists who spend years studying these things - the professionals say it doesn't wash - the problem is people listen to the simple arguments put forward by the car counting number clicking nerd in his car. It is all rather sad really as they will put their energy into a totally pointless campaign.

What these people cannot understand is the simple history of transport:

horse and cart, followed by canals, followed by trains, followed by roads, followed by motorways, followed by huge expanse in car ownership, then the crinklies argue ah well look at all the pollution cars cause - well guess what - the independence cars gives us means we have the lifestyles we want - and guess what within (probably 20 years) we WILL all be driving green electric cars driven by renewable energy resources - Why is is this because we are car dependent and the car is not going to be replaced by the train in rural ireland and the ability to produce electric eco friendly cars which can be driven at reasonable speeds for reasonable distances is already with us....

Oh glory be will they ever geddit???? Trains are great for real inter-urban high speed travel, trains are great at shifting large masses of people to commute to work on a daily basis over small distances in urban areas - but trains trundling from tiny village to tiny village in the West of Ireland is stuff of romantic nostalgia.

Now where is my copy of the Railway Children.......

Don't forget to post your comment http://www.youtube.com/user/westernrail - nice one up there andy we want more on their you tube website to let them know!!

westtip

mfitzy wrote: »

Anybody watch the Eco eye and the WRC videos on Youtube.
Dear God is all I can say. Nobody is using the existing line between Limerick and Waterford, why pray tell then is Limerick-Galway going to be any different?

"We project 900,000-1 million passengers between Mayo and Limerick"...as far as I know that's higher than Waterford-Dublin and Rosslare-Dublin currently ffs. Long established lines with biggish towns and lots of Dublin commuters.I don't know where they get/make up their figures.

Exactly - the talk total tosh; 900k - 1 million passengers per annum is almost on a par with the Belfast-Dublin Enterprise at 1.172million passengers per annum.

Passenger journeys per annum from A guided tour of the ghost train – article in irish times May 12th 2009 (have made a small addition myself!!)

Most heavily used:

Drogheda-Dublin Commuter: 6.581m

Maynooth-Dublin Commuter: 4.639m

Cork-Dublin Intercity: 2.885m

Kildare-Dublin Commuter: 2.135m

Galway-Dublin Intercity: 1.521m

Belfast-Dublin Enterprise: 1.172m

KILTIMAGH TO TUBERCURRY: 25 journies per annum

Limerick-Dublin Intercity: 827,000

Cobh-Cork Commuter: 594,000

Tralee-Dublin Intercity: 540,000

Most lightly used:

Ballybrophy-Limerick Commuter: 36,000

Limerick Junction-Waterford Intercity: 54,000

Don't forget to post your comment http://www.youtube.com/user/westernrail - nice one up there andy we want more on their you tube website to let them know!!

flazio

So what the consenus here is that Intercity doesn't work unless it's going to Dublin and commuter links don't work outside Dublin?

invincibleirish

flazio wrote: »

So what the consenus here is that Intercity doesn't work unless it's going to Dublin and commuter links don't work outside Dublin?

Rail doesn't work when its a slow limited service serving small population centres over a dispersed area.

Rail works outside Dublin note the Cork-Cobh & Midleton links.

IIMII

flazio wrote: »

So what the consenus here is that Intercity doesn't work unless it's going to Dublin

More or less

flazio wrote: »

commuter links don't work outside Dublin?

Unless there is a sizable commuting population to draw from. Plus the services in question either have to beat road times or beat traffic jams, and preferably do both.

Trains win where rail beats road, end of. Where rail matches road, road still wins in most cases unless there are parking or other issues