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Western Rail Corridor
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Judgement Day wrote: »Since you are clearly in love with motoring your 'impartial' contributions to the WRC debate will not be missed. Just because Kanturk no longer has a rail service there's no need to be so anti-rail.
check out the reason for editing....and Im most definately PRO rail.....0 -
I think that Stroke Politics' point has been fobbed off with smart answers rather than an acknowledgement that he asked a straight question that deserves a straight answer.
How can it cost five times as much to relay a mile of state-owned closed railway in Cork than it does in Galway? And please bear in mind that the €106 m allocated to the first phase of the WRC INCLUDES all the signalling, level crossings and strengthening works currently underway on the Athenry to Galway section AND provision for the new station at Oranmore. The real cost of Ennis to Athenry is closer to €2m per mile than €3m - while Middleton cost €12m per mile. Future passenger use has nothing to do with the capital cost. And I am bemused at the predictions of failure facing the WRC. You can rest assured there will be more passengers on the first service train carrying fare paying passengers into Athenry than there were on the Middleton fare paying service into Cobh Junction yesterday - 9.
IE have about 1000 route miles in the country and they receive about €200m in subsidy ie. €200,000 per route mile.
So lets stop giving the impression that IE are not already heavily subsidised. They should'nt get an increased subsidy for Middleton or the WRC. They should fill the trains with passengers, sweat their assets, decongest the roads, reduce our carbon footprint - in other words get off their butts and do what they are paid to do - run a rail service or get off the pitch and let the private sector get on with the job.
And I for one as a Galwayman want a railway service on the WRC from Galway to Mayo NOT a walking route. Its enough having McCarthy trying to turn our region into a nature reserve than to have local people advocating it. I have seen too many tears shed at Airports of young Irish graduates emigrating against their will to believe we need anything other than 21st century infrastructure all over Ireland to help us attract inward investment and to foster our indiginous potential.
And all as the poor babies crawl around eyre square scrounging for food as mammy and daddy beg for a place in the work house. Up in Mayo the burnt out remains of bungalows are surrounded by youngins with back packs ready to set sail in a schooner to Americay. Will you get a grip of yourself. I saw my family shed tears at the B+I ferry terminal in 1980s Dublin seeing off desperate relatives in search of a life and very much against their will. The west doesn't have a monopoly on those tears and your precious WRC certainly won't prevent recession or aid recovery.
You want 21st century infrastructure? Well the WRC isn't 21st century infrastructure by any stretch of the imagination. It will not compete with road transport (and spare me any lamentable yarns about freight) and is merely a second rate railway that takes the strangest possible route in 21st century terms. Why? Because it was never built to be any kind of intercity railway in the first place and the relay/reopening is just a badly informed act of political appeasement encouraged by headbangers with absolutely no understanding of rail transport in a country the size of Ireland. As for north of Athenry, its a meandering line through back waters heading over some of the most appalingly built railway that you will ever see.
Yes I agree, IE are a shambles of an outfit that don't even try to sweat assets where it matters, but to sweat them on the WRC would be akin to flogging a dead horse and then trying to ride in the grand national. As for the private sector making money out of the WRC?
:D:D Sorry but that only works where masses of people are using rail services and even then you'll find that the state will have to pay for the infrastructure. Rail transport is a hard game to make money in.
So you're a Galway man that wants to see the WRC extended all the way to Mayo? Why? Do you work in Castlebar or something? And McCarthy isn't picking on you either. Lose the chip on your western shoulder. He's picking on everyone everywhere.
And then there's the midleton line and its more expensive cost than the WRC. Thats probably because its designed better, built better and there for the longhaul as Cork CC planned for it over the course of 20 years. Its a pretty impressive modern surburban railway and has justification written all over it. The WRC stretch from Ennis to Athenry is a poorly restored railway, built on the cheap and retains all of its hilly meandering features that will result in slow speeds and a rural nature. Even the stations look like half hearted efforts with shelters built to accomodate the expected 6 people waiting on a train, if we're lucky.
The WRC is a con job. Promoted by eejits, sanctioned by bigger eejits and built by understudy eejits on strings. I love the west of Ireland. Ive worked there (Wow! can you believe an Easty actually worked in the west!), lived there and still visit regularly. Ive seen the changes and they've been positive changes. Public transport is still a disaster in the likes of Galway city, Sligo and Limerick city. But our Government has decided to spend 100 million on a railway that does virtually nothing for these commuter belts. For example if Tuam got a commuter rail service before Galways bus service was improved, I'd get sick with disgust. This is what amazes me about the likes of you. The basics in public transport are neglected beyond belief, while you pontificate along with the hill billy WOT lot about a pointless railway that rambles through fields and townlands, taking the longest route to get anywhere near a centre of popluation in true 19th century style, while advocating 21st century infrastructure! If you were representative of the West of Ireland (and you're not, thank ****) then the rest of us could be forgiven for laughing at all of you and your demented poor mouth attitude.
Every bone fide supporter of the WRC in the west is a disgraceful example to the area with the exception of many "helpful" eejits who signed a petition. The rest of its supporters are just trainspotters wet with nostalgia.0 -
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I must echo Westtip here in saying that there is definitly more advantage in turning WRC Phase 2 into a greenway.
As I have stated here and on the Greenways thread, Greenways present potential growth in cycling/walking tourism. I for one, would be out to that Greenway the day of it's opening, should it be actually be built. I feel that the Burma road would make an excellent cycle-trip.
I feel that this greenway could stimulate commerce in the townlands it would traverse, with cyclists/walkers making pitstops along the way and probably seeking lodging in some towns. Local hospitality business and hotelliers could only benefit from this if such a greenway were to go ahead and become popular.
Sorry for being petty, and I'm pretty sure that I have raised this point before but how are all these cyclists going to reach Athenry or Claremorris to cycle on your Greenways - given the almost non existent bike capacity on the 22000s? 0 -
Judgement Day wrote: »Sorry for being petty, and I'm pretty sure that I have raised this point before but how are all these cyclists going to reach Athenry or Claremorris to cycle on your Greenways - given the almost non existent bike capacity on the 22000s?
JD, You are quite right IE are doing nothing for cycling tourism, but this is not the big issue about the greenway argument. A lot of cycling tourists using the greenways in the uk simply stick their bikes on the back of their cars and drive to the cycling route they want to use! If they are locals using the greenway they simply cycle to them - your point about the 22000s is true but not an insurmountable problem. One of the key issues about the Greenway argument is return on investment - Turn the whatever it is - say 75 miles of WRC from Claremorris to Collooney to Greenway - at a cost of what? say 5 million - which is probably on the high side - and see the tourists pour in to use it, not to mention local day trippers who will go out for lunch, buy sweets and ice creams for the kids, by petrol and pay VAT on goods in the local area. The maintenance costs would be very low as well. compare this to the cost of laying the new track and the cost of subvention per passenger - don't get me wrong I actually don't think trains can ever really wipe their face - there will always be a subvention of some kind - it is just that the WRC cost per passenger journey in terms of subvention will be horrendous and unjustified. The whole thing is simply an indulgence.
Greenways are not just about cycling -but walking as well, local walkers as well tourists. I have seen women power walking or having their evening constitutional on the hard shoulder of the Knock/Claremorris bypass - is this a healthy option? Is this providing our citizens with a safe place to have somethign as simple as an evening walk; no wonder so many pedestrians get killed and injured on our roads, the greenway of the WRC could actually save lives. For a modest sum of money, the WRC Greenway could improve the lives of a lot more people than the WRC ever will, that's my view, but I think readers of this thread will be well aware of that! I have said it in a post recently, it's not about convincing the WOT eejits as DW calls them, they won't change their minds - its about influencing those who make the decisions to show them their is an alternative for the WRC which will actually be for the greater good of a greater number at a much lesser cost.0 -
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DWCommuter wrote: »And all as the poor babies crawl around eyre square scrounging for food as mammy and daddy beg for a place in the work house. Up in Mayo the burnt out remains of bungalows are surrounded by youngins with back packs ready to set sail in a schooner to Americay. Will you get a grip of yourself. I saw my family shed tears at the B+I ferry terminal in 1980s Dublin seeing off desperate relatives in search of a life and very much against their will. The west doesn't have a monopoly on those tears and your precious WRC certainly won't prevent recession or aid recovery.
You want 21st century infrastructure? Well the WRC isn't 21st century infrastructure by any stretch of the imagination. It will not compete with road transport (and spare me any lamentable yarns about freight) and is merely a second rate railway that takes the strangest possible route in 21st century terms. Why? Because it was never built to be any kind of intercity railway in the first place and the relay/reopening is just a badly informed act of political appeasement encouraged by headbangers with absolutely no understanding of rail transport in a country the size of Ireland. As for north of Athenry, its a meandering line through back waters heading over some of the most appalingly built railway that you will ever see.
Yes I agree, IE are a shambles of an outfit that don't even try to sweat assets where it matters, but to sweat them on the WRC would be akin to flogging a dead horse and then trying to ride in the grand national. As for the private sector making money out of the WRC?:D:D Sorry but that only works where masses of people are using rail services and even then you'll find that the state will have to pay for the infrastructure. Rail transport is a hard game to make money in.
So you're a Galway man that wants to see the WRC extended all the way to Mayo? Why? Do you work in Castlebar or something? And McCarthy isn't picking on you either. Lose the chip on your western shoulder. He's picking on everyone everywhere.
And then there's the midleton line and its more expensive cost than the WRC. Thats probably because its designed better, built better and there for the longhaul as Cork CC planned for it over the course of 20 years. Its a pretty impressive modern surburban railway and has justification written all over it. The WRC stretch from Ennis to Athenry is a poorly restored railway, built on the cheap and retains all of its hilly meandering features that will result in slow speeds and a rural nature. Even the stations look like half hearted efforts with shelters built to accomodate the expected 6 people waiting on a train, if we're lucky.
The WRC is a con job. Promoted by eejits, sanctioned by bigger eejits and built by understudy eejits on strings. I love the west of Ireland. Ive worked there (Wow! can you believe an Easty actually worked in the west!), lived there and still visit regularly. Ive seen the changes and they've been positive changes. Public transport is still a disaster in the likes of Galway city, Sligo and Limerick city. But our Government has decided to spend 100 million on a railway that does virtually nothing for these commuter belts. For example if Tuam got a commuter rail service before Galways bus service was improved, I'd get sick with disgust. This is what amazes me about the likes of you. The basics in public transport are neglected beyond belief, while you pontificate along with the hill billy WOT lot about a pointless railway that rambles through fields and townlands, taking the longest route to get anywhere near a centre of popluation in true 19th century style, while advocating 21st century infrastructure! If you were representative of the West of Ireland (and you're not, thank ****) then the rest of us could be forgiven for laughing at all of you and your demented poor mouth attitude.
Every bone fide supporter of the WRC in the west is a disgraceful example to the area with the exception of many "helpful" eejits who signed a petition. The rest of its supporters are just trainspotters wet with nostalgia.
What a rant!
I fully support the reopening of the western rail corridor. My house is on a stretch of land between the N17 and the western rail corridor. And I can tell you this part of the N17 is no motorway. It's a 2 lane road with double white lines for 3 miles either side of my gate on a series of bad bends just 3 miles north of Tubbercurry. There are no plans in place to upgrade this road. The NRA were to put a new road through my land and there is no investment plan for the foreseeable future. There is a serious amount of traffic and you are taking a chance getting out the gate each time. When you see forestry trucks passing in convoys down this road while a large piece of infrastructure lies unused and rotting less than a half a mile away and you are sitting waiting for 5 minutes to get across the road, then how can you tell me theres not enough business in the area to run this railroad.
Here's another scenario, my Mother is undergoing cancer treatment at present, she has to travel to Galway by Bus, daily along with hundreds of other patients in the West and North West, a 150 mile round trip, since that F****r Harney shut down the facilty in Sligo General. If that line was open she'd be on it. If you had to travel from Sligo to Galway for Cancer treatment would you rather travel by Rail or by Bus?
Do the people of the west of Ireland have to justify their reasons to the likes of you for every journey we wish to take and under what circumstances.
What about the Dublin to Wexford line, theres a motorway running alongside it and you're not asking to close that line. The same can be said for all the major routes. We're not living in the past, reopening this line would be progress. It would provide a rail link to Knock International Airport. It would be the 1st airport in Ireland to have a rail link.0 -
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Carawaystick are there any rail lines that you wouldn't close? What happened when you were a child, Santa not bring you a toy train so now nobody else should have one? Maybe you would be happier on the thread about motorway/bypass plaques? 0
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Judgement Day wrote: »Carawaystick are there any rail lines that you wouldn't close? What happened when you were a child, Santa not bring you a toy train so now nobody else should have one? Maybe you would be happier on the thread about motorway/bypass plaques?
I don't see why taxes should fund lightly used railway lines, offering poor service, while also funding better service, better frequency, shorter journey time bus services running mainly in parallel with them.
I also don't agree with taxes being used to prop up airlines flying routes also served by tax subsidised rail or bus links - these should be closed down too.
In particular I don't see why taxes should be used to build the wrc, when the only part of it open at present was closed for weeks after a bit of rain flooded it. surely any sane organisation would fix the already running section of line first?
I wouldn't close any rail line that has full services running on it at least once a week.
Lastly, there is no santa claus and there should be no tax funded toy trains. At least a good road allows citizens use it suits them, not when it suits the staff of Irish rail or Veola. It also allows private sector transport companies run services according to demand from the public.0 -
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