Western Rail Corridor

jman0

I guess i'm not sure why the fixation on students, but those feel this is a waste of money certainly haven't spent an hour n more traveling on the N17 from Tuam to Galway at 8am, same again at 5pm.
This is badly needed imo.
Galway the major hub there in the west and the motorised congestion is absolutely shocking.

PandaMania

jman0 wrote:

I guess i'm not sure why the fixation on students, but those feel this is a waste of money certainly haven't spent an hour n more traveling on the N17 from Tuam to Galway at 8am, same again at 5pm.
This is badly needed imo.
Galway the major hub there in the west and the motorised congestion is absolutely shocking.

You may be correct. The issue which most people have against the idea is the whole notion of starting a slow local stopping train in Sligo and having it end up in Limerick several hours later. Doing this three times a day in either direction and calling it a "commuter service". Commuter railways do not function in that manner in post-agrairian modern, service-based economies.

You can be pro-commuter rail for Galway city without serving Kiltimagh, Claremorris or Coolooney. http://platform11.org/gal_ennis_lim.html

ishmael whale

As Pandamania says, you may have a point. The real criticism of the WRC is the idea that a Sligo-Galway service does not justify the investment, and is not particularly about how best to manage Galway commuter traffic. Conceivably, the WRC will eat up resources that could be better spent on public transport for Galway city.

jman0 wrote:

....those feel this is a waste of money certainly haven't spent an hour n more traveling on the N17 from Tuam to Galway at 8am, same again at 5pm.

http://www.westontrack.com/timetable10.htm
Also bear in mind that the draft timetable for the WRC shows it taking nearly an hour to get from Tuam to Galway, so it actually wouldn’t offer you any advantage over road – particular if the Tuam-Galway traffic is generated by people living outside Tuam, rather than people who would be able to take Shank’s Mare to the railway station. Bear in mind equally that the Limerick Ennis commuter services hasn’t exactly been an overwhelming success – I think the conclusion is that the improved Ennis-Dublin access is what’s attracting the punters to that service.

Rail simply might not have much to offer Galway yet. But I dare say you could probably think of useful public transport solutions for the city that would cost a lot less than the nutty WRC.

Eurorunner

I guess i'm not sure why the fixation on students, but those feel this is a waste of money certainly haven't spent an hour n more traveling on the N17 from Tuam to Galway at 8am, same again at 5pm.
This is badly needed imo.
Galway the major hub there in the west and the motorised congestion is absolutely shocking.

My view is that there should be a service from Tuam -> Galway -> Limerick
- with the Tuam -> Sligo leg remaining as an aspiration - something that can be planned around and put in place when the time is right.

Victor

ishmael whale wrote:

http://www.hea.ie/uploads/excel/DESIrishFTCounty03.xls

According to this, there’s 19,000 third level students from Connaught. 9,000 of them attend college in Galway, but 5,600 of them actually come from Galway. (Note: I’ve a feeling these figures don’t take account of the Castlebar campus of GMIT, as there seems to be no figure for students from Mayo who attend college in Mayo. GMIT Castlebar accommodates 900 students). Limerick and Clare would add about another 10,000 so, yes, its hard to see where the figure of 55,000 comes from.

Taking Bev’s core example, there’s 4,700 students third level students from Mayo. 2,000 of these attend college in Galway (this may include some attending GMIT Castlebar). 650 attend college in Sligo. So her target audience is maybe 1,500 to 2,500 – well short of the 55,000 she was spouting about. We don’t know what portion of these actually live close enough to a rail station to access the WRC as a commuter service, but given the spread of population in Mayo I think we can take it that the answer is not a lot.

Oooo! I know, we are forgetting all the mid-west students (note the mid-west extends as far as Tralee). I wonder if WoT will extend their campaign to the West Limerick / North Kerry line?

PandaMania

"My view is that there should be a service from Tuam -> Galway -> Limerick
- with the Tuam -> Sligo leg remaining as an aspiration - something that can be planned around and put in place when the time is right."

I would go:

Galway-Gort-Ennis-Sixmilebridge-Limerick Inter-City/Commuter Service in 2008
Galway City Commuter Service: Galway-Oranmore-Athenry-Tuam in 2010

Tuam-Collooney developed as a cycle and walking path, as the same bungalow blissed poor opressed famers who made the northern half of the WRC unviable, have also chased walking touists and ramblers off their land. The supreme irony is that many of the so called rural advocates and crackpot Western Lobby groups are demanding government policy which has turned much of rural Connacht into a tacky Americanised, car-dependent wasteland.

De Rebel

Victor wrote:

Oooo! I know, we are forgetting all the mid-west students (note the mid-west extends as far as Tralee). I wonder if WoT will extend their campaign to the West Limerick / North Kerry line?

And don't forget the (truly amazing) GMIT campus in Letterfrack - definitly worth considering linking that in. All it would mean is reopening the 50 miles of the 1895 Galway-Clifden line and a few miles of extension to offer a very valuable commuter service.

John R

What is needed for Galway bound commuters is a proper bus priority scheme that will serve all routes into the city not just one town.

The WOT Tuam-Galway line is considerably slower than the off-peak bus service currently is and there is no way it can be accelerated by much on it's current alignment.

The only way to serve a large amount of commuters in a rural area like this is by bus, the best way of promoting that is to provide a fast route through the city traffic so it has a significant benefit over car use.

The WRC north of Tuam is a complete joke, the proposed services are slower and less frequent than the current bus service which serves more towns with stops closer to the population centres. Although well enough used the bus service usually gets by with one bus every 3 hours or so, there is no way that translates into a proper loading for a rail service.

ishmael whale

http://www.mayoireland.com/wot/Introduction.doc
I’ve discovered the mystery of the 55,000 students. Its taken from the West on Track feasibility study prepared by Hans Christian Anderson and linked above.

54,126 is the combined fulltime and parttime enrolment of NUIG Galway, University of Limerick, Athlone IT, Galway-Mayo IT, Sligo IT, Letterkenny IT, St.Angela's College and Limerick IT. It bears no relationship to students who actually might find the WRC any use as a mode of transport, but despite having another table that shows the actual amount of students in WRC counties attending colleges within the region (about 12,000) they still use 55,000 as the headline figure. (When you’re dealing with this level of misrepresentation you kind of forgive rounding 54,126 up to 55,000 instead of down to 54,000).

Another little footnote in passing. The WOT feasibility study also includes this little gem.

“In the case of the N17, for example, there has been a 38% increase in the volume of traffic between Tuam and Galway in the five years 1998-2003. Between 7a.m. and 9.30 a.m. each weekday more than 3000 vehicles travel on a one lane road into Galway causing gridlock and tailbacks of three miles (NRA).”
And
“ • 30,000 cars enter Galway City each day i.e. 60,000 individual journeys.
• A delay of 15 minutes (more often 40-60 mins) through congestion on each journey
consumes 15,000 hours each day.
• At a modest estimate of €20 per hour this costs the Galway economy €300,000 per day or €1.8m per week or €93.6m per year.”

I’ve seen this figure cited, so its interesting to see its source.

First, the Department of Transport suggest that commuting time be costed at €8 an hour. Why WOT feel Tuam people’s time is worth so much more than the rest of the population is not clear. So the cost is, properly, €120,000 per day, €500,000 per week (taking a 5 day week rather than WOT’s six day week – great workers those Tuam people) or €26m per year. Still a fair whack, I hear you say, even if it is only a quarter of WOT’s estimate. But look again. This is based on 30,000 cars. Only 3,000 of those cars seem to be taken account of by the Tuam Galway road. So even if WOT ordered even motorist on the Tuam road out of their car and onto the train, the most they could possibly save in congestion costs is €2.6 million.

However, even this saving assumes the WRC uses a transportation device that dematerializes passengers and rematerializes them instantly at their destination. In fact, the Tuam service will actually save no time over road. So the commuting time cost of people driving from Tuam would be much the same as the commuting time cost of rail. What contribution does WRC make to reducing the estimated €26million Galway congestion cost? None at all.

Conclusion: the much vaunted WOT feasibility study is a crock, and the occasionally cited €93.6m per year Galway traffic congestion cost is based on fantasy. (No, I'm not saying Galway city doesn't get traffic congestion - just that this figure used by WOT is nonsense.)

MG

ishmael whale wrote:

http://www.mayoireland.com/wot/Introduction.doc
I’ve discovered the mystery of the 55,000 students. Its taken from the West on Track feasibility study prepared by Hans Christian Anderson and linked above.


Another little footnote in passing. The WOT feasibility study also includes this little gem.



First, the Department of Transport suggest that commuting time be costed at €8 an hour.


Conclusion: the much vaunted WOT feasibility study is a crock, and the occasionally cited €93.6m per year Galway traffic congestion cost is based on fantasy. (No, I'm not saying Galway city doesn't get traffic congestion - just that this figure used by WOT is nonsense.)

I fail to see the issue here. The report clearly assumes that only a percentage of the 55,000 students will use the service.
"While it must be recognised that for reasons of geographical location or convenience a sizeable number of these would be unable to avail of the WRC, it is not unreasonable to assume that at least 15-20% i.e. 7,750 to 11,000 of these are potential regular WRC users."

Secondly, on the traffic issue, if we assume that an hourly wage rate equates with the opportunity cost of sitting in traffic, then €8 seems very little. If the average industrial wage is €30k p.a., that occupancy of cars is higher than 1.0 and that there is a running and environmental costs involved in motoring, then €20 per hour doesn't seem that unreasonable.

I have a Muffin left over from my lunch, the first person to find a previous post from Ismael which doesn't promote Dublin above the rest of the country can have it.

ishmael whale

MG wrote:

I fail to see the issue here. The report clearly assumes that only a percentage of the 55,000 students will use the service.

What’s unreasonable is the 55,000 figure includes Letterkenny which isn’t even on the WRC so its presumably only there to inflate the headline figure. This then makes their application of a percentage seem modest and reasonable – and its seems to taken you in. By stating the possible usage to be 7,500 to 11,000 they are actually saying that most, and possibly nearly all, students from the Western region studying within the region would use it – including, for example, students from Castlebar town attending GMIT Castlebar, and students who live nowhere near a proposed rail station. Hardly a reasonable proposition. WOT are clearly inflating the figures and making unsustainable claims.

MG wrote:

Secondly, on the traffic issue, if we assume that an hourly wage rate equates with the opportunity cost of sitting in traffic, then €8 seems very little.

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/5830-0.pdf
The costing comes from here. It clearly states the market cost of commuting time per hour is to be taken as €8. That’s what the Department of Transport use, and I don’t see any reason to vary it for the WRC. There’s a separate cost for travel in the course of work. I take it the reason the average industrial wage doesn’t apply to commuting time is because your employer doesn’t start paying you until you actually turn up for work, so it’s simply not relevant.

MG wrote:

I have a Muffin left over from my lunch, the first person to find a previous post from Ismael which doesn't promote Dublin above the rest of the country can have it.

If you can’t get the ball, get the man. What I actually promote is looking to see what benefits the country as a whole, but I can appreciate your confusion if your mindset is to back any and all expenditure for your county regardless of whether serves any purpose.

To answer your question, here’s a thread where you’ll find me in substantial agreement with the views of Ed Walsh, formerly of UL, and a well known exponent of the Dublin mindset.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=245135&page=2

But have the muffin yourself, the sugar might give you the energy to actually address the points I’m raising.

PandaMania

FF orders closure of Co Mayo branch

22 April 2005 14:35

The Fianna Fáil National Executive has ordered the closure of a cumann in Co Mayo that has continued to support the former Fianna Fáil TD, Beverley Flynn.

A party spokeswoman said the action had been taken against the Mícheál Ó Moráin Cumann last night because it had been the focus of what she called efforts by Ms Flynn to exert undue influence on the organisation.

The party is thought to have been concerned for some time that Ms Flynn has continued to be active in Fianna Fáil circles in Mayo despite her expulsion from the parliamentary party. (this is just weird)

It is believed last night's action was prompted by a decision by the local constituency association to allow her to address its members in Ballinrobe last week.

Ms Flynn was expelled from the parliamentary party last summer after the failure of her libel action against RTÉ.

murphaph

MG wrote:

Secondly, on the traffic issue, if we assume that an hourly wage rate equates with the opportunity cost of sitting in traffic, then €8 seems very little. If the average industrial wage is €30k p.a., that occupancy of cars is higher than 1.0 and that there is a running and environmental costs involved in motoring, then €20 per hour doesn't seem that unreasonable.

It's highly unreasonable. You're assuming that everyone sitting in the traffic jam is a productive member of society that contributes to the exchequer in some form. That will not be the case with everybody in the traffic jam. Many will be shoppers, mothers taking kids to school etc. Sure, their time is worth money, but not at an average industrial rate in many instances. The DoT figure is the only one we may use. This Bullsh!t from WoT is typical "we should weight things to favour the west" type nonsense that most folks actually from or living in the west or anywhere else in our country know is complete tosh.

Nice bit of research ishmael. You can't beat a bit of fact to pour cold water on a hare-brain scheme like the northern half of the WRC.

themole

hmm,

being from galway myself and a loather of buses the prospect of a train from limerick->galway-> sligo seems interesting.

but a substantial feasibility report is needed.

in reply to the talk about €8/hour beign approppraite for costing travel, seems about right to me. you have to remember that most people work 9-5, regardless of how long they spend travelling, if they have to travel less then that just equates to more time at home, not work.

as far as students go, most students take the bus. even on routes like dublin-galway, where the train is around 2.5 hours and the bus is anywhere from 3.5-5.5 depending on stops. (btw i have gotten a bus which took 5.5hours, stopped in every little town on the way)

when the costing is carried out by an independant body then a decision could be made. the money might be better spent on roads.

iceman_2001_ie

Apparently....

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/04/25/story199677.html

Cool

Hopefully, it won't take as long as the Midelton Line

enterprise

That is good news. P11 won't be happy but so what?

PandaMania

Traffic congestion on the M50, crush loadings on the DART and LUAS...no Metro, No Interconnector, No second Terminal for Dublin Airport, No Luas Link-up, No New Buses for Dublin Bus, No Airport Rail Line of any kind.

But if a priest in Mayo wants an couple of hundred million for a rail service which will carry less people in a year than the DART carries in a single day. NO PROBLEM!!!!

This country is a banana republic.

ishmael whale

It’s not really good news, if it is true. It’s simply a decision to waste money on a project that will achieve little, while decisions fail to be taken on projects that might actually make a difference to people’s lives. But so what.

“… a report which will be presented to Transport Minister Martin Cullen this week is set to recommend the re-opening of the line from Ennis in County Clare to Claremorris in Mayo…. The group is chaired by Jurys Doyle Hotel chief executive Pat McCann and includes representatives from the Department of Transport, Iarnród Éireann, local authorities, and the Railway Procurement Agency…. A West on Track spokesman said the working group had done extensive research into the railway line.”

It shouldn’t be that much of a surprise. Mostly the group consisted of West of Ireland based reps and local authority reps with no vested interest in shooting the idea down, even if they thought it was a crock. What will be interesting to see is, if their report is published, did they do any actually assessment of the proposal or did they simply accept WOT’s flawed proposal without question.

MarkoP11

Don't believe everything you read especially "a senior Government source"

Calm down and wait for the 10 year plan

PandaMania

The sad thing is that this will probably mean that Platform 11 will fold and all the work they have done to date will have been for nothing. I don't see the Interconnector happening now. The reality is that there is no parish pump in the East Coast and hence, why Bertie spends more time playing Santa Claus when he is west of the Shannon while demonstrating absolutely no empathy for people who really do live in gridlock misery within the Pale. This is a black day really and follows on from the one-off housing free for all announced last week. The concept of the "Greater Good" in Irish society is a non-issue.

SeanW

Oh my god this is bonkers

SeanW

PandaMania wrote:

The sad thing is that this will probably mean that Platform 11 will fold and all the work they have done to date will have been for nothing.

No fcuking way. If this bonkers plan ever gets going, it will be up to P11 to clean up the mess. And it doesnt matter if others get disheartened - I'll pick up the mantle myself if comes to that.

ishmael whale

MarkoP11 wrote:

Don't believe everything you read especially "a senior Government source"

Calm down and wait for the 10 year plan

In fairness, we don't know the source and it may just be West-on-track continuing their attempts to turn Bertie's waffle into a concrete commitment. Take it as a lack of confidence in the ability of the system to make sensible decisions.

jank

The sad thing is that this will probably mean that Platform 11 will fold and all the work they have done to date will have been for nothing. I don't see the Interconnector happening now. The reality is that there is no parish pump in the East Coast and hence, why Bertie spends more time playing Santa Claus when he is west of the Shannon while demonstrating absolutely no empathy for people who really do live in gridlock misery within the Pale. This is a black day really and follows on from the one-off housing free for all announced last week. The concept of the "Greater Good" in Irish society is a non-issue.

So how much was spent on infrasture then west of the Shannon compared to the rest of Ireland especially dublin recently...... The difference is probably enormous. Euro for euro Dublin gets the vast majority and that is right but come one there are another 25 counties out there too

I really welcome this, as one will now be able to take a train from galway limerick and onto cork. Hopefully these cities will grow and expand in time and attact investment on par with dublin in the future. There is enormous potential here I think for the corridor

Why are people so against this. Is it becuase "the money could/should be spent in dublin!(on me!!)" or is it that people dont like to see progress outside the pale..There has been billions spent in dublin in the past few years. Give the rest of the country a break for **** sake!

Remember people live outside dublin too (ignorence is bliss!) *points finger @ PandaMania*

And no im no from the west i actully live in dublin but i can see beyond the next year or 2 in terms of where this country is heading!

ishmael whale

There’s various points that could be gone into, including the mistaken impression that Dublin receives a disproportionate share of national resources when the actual position is Dublin contributes a disproportionate share of national net tax take. But let’s focus on the actual proposal.

The main reason to oppose the Western Rail Corridor is it makes no sense. Bear in mind that when you say “one will now be able to take a train from galway limerick and onto cork”, this is not really whats proposed. As you can see, the press release is talking in terms of rebuilding a line from Galway to Claremorris and ultimately up to Sligo. That’s what’s at the core of the WRC proposal – not connecting Galway to Cork.

It’s highly unlikely that the WRC will attract any custom. Again, much could be said about this, but the key point is that its a single track rail line which runs largely through areas with a low density of population (the WOT comments to the effect that the line serves half a million is just hokum), and the service will offer no time advantage over road. It is thus highly unlikely that it will attract much custom, and hence make no meaningful contribution to regional development.

WOT are trading on the sympathy of people like yourself who would like to see more development in the regions. Can I suggest that ‘we need to promote development outside Dublin’ is not the same as saying ‘lets throw money at any old thing so long as its not in Dublin’, which is an accurate description of regional policy to date.

The national spatial strategy and recent comments by Ed Walsh of the University of Limerick and a few other voices all point the same problem. The regions need to concentrate resources in a few – very few – centres of scale outside Dublin. The WRC contributes nothing to aid this process, but will take resources that could usefully be used on some project that might actually achieve results. On the other hand, placing limitations on one-off housing in the countryside would assist this process in the long run. But for some reason Western development activists are slow to advocate policies that would actually help their region to develop, presumably out of fear of stepping on local toes.

Victor

They could have picked a better side picture.

SeanW

I should note that there is a difference between wanting to target investment where it most needed (i.e. Dublin, Midleton etc) and being totally Dublin-centric.

P11 prefers the former, that's why I joined, P11's agenda includes not just the IE Dublin Rail Plan but also included the Midleton railway, as well as the viable stretch of dead WRC line from Athenry to Ennis, which if utilised properly could provide valuable commuter services between Galway and Limerick (maybe Shannon in the future) and this line could also facilitate the introduction of an Intercity service from Galway to Limerick to Cork - should be a cinch when these Mitsui railcars come in 2008 Galway-Cork Intercity is not P11 policy at the moment but I believe it would be a logical follow-on.

I would like to take the opportunity to distinguish this view from some totally Dublin-centric views which have appeared on this forum. Without naming individuals, one person on this board posted on the P11 message board that Limerick-Ennis was a failure, and that Ennis-Athenry would be little better. On the opposite side, the board now has a rather disturbing individual 'RailJustice' who seems to be on some inexplicable crusade to reopen a whole bunch of dead rail lines - because we're outside the Pale and it's Rail Justice. I disagree with both of the above views. So to, AFAIK does Platform 11.

While the vast majority of funding should go to Dublin because of the extreme problems there, and the fact that so many people live in the GDA, there ARE worthwhile projects outside the "Pale." Just the plan to reopen a collection of rural Victorian tramways is not one of them. Delivering rail-based mass transit to the large numbers of people suffering horribly due to the lack of them (Swords, Navan, Cork/Midleton etc) is the REAL RailJustice. Spending hundreds of millions on a white elephant to a badly planned mini-city is not.

ishmael whale

SeanW wrote:

...While the vast majority of funding should go to Dublin because of the extreme problems there, and the fact that so many people live in the GDA, there ARE worthwhile projects outside the "Pale." Just the plan to reopen a collection of rural Victorian tramways is not one of them. Delivering rail-based mass transit to the large numbers of people suffering horribly due to the lack of them (Swords, Navan, Cork/Midleton etc) is the REAL RailJustice. Spending hundreds of millions on a white elephant to a badly planned mini-city is not.

I just want to make it plain I agree with the above statement. I don’t agree that querying whether Limerick Ennis is as successful as the spin would suggest is ‘Dublin centric’.

Neither do I think that exploring the case for a Tuam Galway commuter service, which some have suggested as a case for the WRC, is ‘Dublin centric’. I don’t doubt there are useful public transport initiatives that could be undertaken in Limerick and Galway. But maybe rail isn’t appropropriate.

I’m only saying this in case I’m the unnamed person you’re citing as saying Limerick Ennis is a failure. I haven’t said anything on P11 threads that I wouldn’t say here. In fact I think I started quering Limerick Ennis on this board (I think this is the relevant post).
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2253113&postcount=20

I’ve also queried Galway Tuam here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2650141&postcount=23

What I’m waiting for is someone to present an alternative case, which actually addresses the points made. It hasn’t happened yet.

SeanW

P11 believes that there is a credible commuter belt from Galway to Ennis and Limerick, and that this section (Athenry-Ennis) of rail would facilitate it. We've seen and discussed evidnece of growth along this corridor.

None of what you say about the Western Rail Corridor in general can be said about the section from Athenry to Ennis.

Regarding the Ennis-Limerick service and your comparisons to Luas, although the service only carried 60,000 in its first year which is a fraction of that of Luas (20,000,000?), it's cost was relatively trivial E21M, again this is only a fraction of the Luas cost. Regarding the passenger numbers, for the Ennis-Limerick section, in the mentioned post you knocked the number back to the number of regular users as opposed to passenger journeys. that's not quite fair as we usually gauge passenger use by number of journeys made.
Secondly, the service only serves two stations - Ennis and Limerick. Luas, and the other mainline and commuter services all serve many more stations on their routes. Hence they have more customers. There are plans for other stations on the line in some of the towns (P11 plan) and putting these in would widen the catchement area. Look at the DART, would it be as successful if it only served Howth Junction and Connolly?
Thirdly: it isn't really complete without finishing the job and rebuilding the line to Athenry. The alignment is a good, heavy rail alignment, and the infrastructure is in relatively good shape, it would cost E21M which is little more than a track relay. Athenry-Ennis would revitalise the line like never before, as you'd bring Galway into the mix, the railway would serve the Galway-Ennis-Limerick belt. Galway is much larger than Ennis so its safe to assume there would be more passengers from it. This is a key point - Galway is bigger than Ennis by far. Population density is rail transport so there is good reason to assume that linking in Galway with Limerick (and Intercity to Cork) would be very nice linking indeed.
Fourthly: Growth & Sustainability. Assuming that this belt grows in line with the rest of the country, that means higher population, more participation in the workfore, more economic activity = more demand for travel as time passes. Roadbuilding is often unsustainable and we assume that more activity means more traffic. Meanwhile the railway gets faster by comparison even if the trains do not increase in speed.
Fifthly: The cost. E21M is only 1/40th of the cost of the (totally inadequate) Luas. Fact is the capital needs billions of Euro to fix its horrificaly disfigured infrastructure. Dublin Rail Plan/Metro (just curious which do you support?) more Luas, Luas extensions, QBCs, cycle paths, M50 widening, another Dublin bypass, M3 motorway, pedestrianisation, Airport needs T2, second runway, the Port probably needs another few billion again - the list just goes on and on.
Sixthly: Anything is a gamble. Anything could go wrong. The Dublin rail plan could become a fiasco. What happens if, while digging the Interconnector tunnel, the contractors find a huge Viking site buried at St. Stephens green, and the enviro-whackos demnad that the Interconnector/Metro projects be abandoned while a massive excavation is carried out? It's unlikely but could happen. Same deal with the WRC to Galway, despite the four points raised above, the residents and workers of Gort, Athenry and Galway may all decide in unison that the Limerick Commuters and possible Cork Intericity's are useless to all and sundry, and it could fail miserably. But that is not likely.

Now we'll look at the points I made and relate them to the rest of the WRC.
Point 3: and relevance to the WRC as a whole, the number of people to serve and the cost to reopen, the figures for a reopening of Ennis-Athenry make infinitely more sense than
Point 4: Growth. The scale is too small for the rest of the WRC to promote sustainability. The WRC crowd point to the Basta factory in Tubercurry as being a major potential railfreight customer. Thomas Sheridan (from Sligo) ex-leader of P11, told us that Basta employes 50 people and its output would fill a white van. They make specialist parts out of metal etc. Like locks. Co-incidentally, the lock in my door. So that means you've got a white-van load of daily output - one box goes to Donegal, another Dublin, Another to Galway, another to Tipperary, another to Mullingar ... Also at 50 employees it probably has workers all over the town. EVEN if the company quadrupled in size, it means you have 200 workers and maybe a single container of output per day which is hardly a recipe for a meltdown. So the Northern WRC won't help with sustainability. But if the Galway-Ennis-Limerick belt expands even by 50% things could get hairy.
Point 5: Dublins needs: Dublin, as we know, needs several billion euro desperately in roads, rail, air and seaport improvements. It's all critical if even worse chaos and meltdown is to be avoided. If the Northern WRC were given the all-clear, it could cost up to a billion euro, and to fund this a Dublin project would have to be scrapped. Most likely a railway plan as I don't see tarmac-the-country Cullen scrapping the M3 or M50 widening or anything similar. This means that either people who desperatly need a railway service, like Navan, Swords etc are forced to put up with the misery they now endure, or the Interconnector gets scrapped and the entire system grinds to a halt. Meanwhile, the WOT crowd would long since have disolved, happy in the knowledge they had three empty, worthless trains going per-day through the middle of nowhere. The Southern WRC (Athenry-Ennis) E21M is nothing compared to Dublin's needs and You cannot credibly claim that this figure would threaten any of the above Dublin projects.
Sixthly: The gamble: Any project is a gamble. Any project could fail including the Midleton rail line or the DRP. Its just very unlikely - these are calculated risks and we know they're very miniscule. With the southern WRC there is a little bit of risk, a small chance that the proposed services from Galway could fail, but that the risk of failure North of Athenry is almost guaranteed.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but it is on my understanding of the above points that I consider your rejection of Ennis-Athenry to be incorrect. I'll wrap up by saying that I don't expect the section of the line from Athenry to Tuam to be of any use in the immediate future, its more long-term, if Galway Co. Co. gets its planning in order and then only after the more critical problems in Dublin, Cork and Galway-Limerick have been sorted.

MarkoP11

Well as I thought from the very outset it was a spoof and the source was in West on Track no the DoT

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1384279&issue_id=12386

Last night, the Department of Transport told the Irish Independent that the report had not yet been received by officials and it could not say if it recommends the line's reopening.

Looks like the report hasn't even been finished yet !