Western Rail Corridor

corktina

I freely admit to being a trainspotter(if a little lapsed) and would love to see all the old lines back but doesnt what is being said on here make common sense? course it does, if the bus can do a better job (as westtip just demonstrated) and safe the country money, leave it do it.... this line willbe a millstone around the necks of our children and grandchildren

Hungerford

DWCommuter wrote: »

Irish railway history since the 1980s is littered with Government commitments via political interference, to reintroduce rail services and most without any semblence of what it takes to actually do it properly. The Maynooth line commuter service is a prime example. Introduced in the 80s on Government insistance, but with limited cash.

In fairness, without government interference, it is unlikely that Irish Rail would ever have started any form of Maynooth line service, let alone an adequate one.

Irish Rail's operations are generally characterised by stagnation - they don't think doing anything new is worth the hassle. They need to be pushed by external forces.

I am not a fan of government interference but rail transport in Ireland would probably be in a worse position without it. That said, you could argue the opposite but that would have to be prefaced on a level of dynamism that I think we both agree that CIE lacks.

westtip

Nostradamus wrote: »

You can just smell the fear.

Yes the day of reckoning is approaching.

Nostradamus

Hungerford wrote: »

In fairness, without government interference, it is unlikely that Irish Rail would ever have started any form of Maynooth line service, let alone an adequate one.

Irish Rail's operations are generally characterised by stagnation - they don't think doing anything new is worth the hassle. They need to be pushed by external forces.

I am not a fan of government interference but rail transport in Ireland would probably be in a worse position without it. That said, you could argue the opposite but that would have to be prefaced on a level of dynamism that I think we both agree that CIE lacks.

Good post and I agree with the thrust of it.

It really comes down to the issue that if CIE were a functional public transport company then we would not need rail lobbies in this country. CIE would be eager to find and develop new markets. As a result they would have the trust of the commuter.

The reality is that CIE/Irish Rail simply cannot be trusted with public transport stewardship/development in this county and it gives rise to all kinds of counter productive entities to fill in this gap from McGuckian's to IRN to WestonTrack.

At the end of the day the management and unions of CIE have spent the last 60 plus years operating and developing CIE, but not public transport unless they were forced to do it.

CIE has to go if we are ever to have public transport in Ireland.

Judgement Day

Nostradamus - what's the world coming to - we agree on something at last! CIE must die!

D.L.R.

They are not so much a transport company as a gang with trains.

Hungerford

Nostradamus wrote: »

The reality is that CIE/Irish Rail simply cannot be trusted with public transport stewardship/development in this county and it gives rise to all kinds of counter productive entities to fill in this gap from McGuckian's to IRN to WestonTrack.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Basically, these entities trade on the fact that CIE aren't terribly proactive about anything and usually seek to advance their aims by pushing the view that some form of anti-Western conspiracy theory lies behind this.

They, of course, wouldn't be able to do this if CIE was an ultra-efficient and proactive organisation, which had the public's respect.

It's actually frightening to thing of what might have been had CIE been more ambitious during the boom times. We'd probably have seen the rapid reopening of the Navan line to meet commuter demand and some additional electrification at the very least.

westtip

here's something for the weekend:

I just happened to take a look a the CSO website this evening, sad but true for a saturday night:

3888 = Environs of Tuam total for 2006 ie the number of people men women children in the area of tuam in 2006 was this number 3888

and:

2595 - Claremorris total. for 2006 ie the number of people men women children in the area of Claremorris in 2006 was this number 2505

I now have a new synonym WRCWTF are we on about. Tis a joke (north of Athenry for deffo)

Whatever we all think about IE these numbers are staggeringly simple to perceive, understand and comprehend. Where do we go from here??




http://beyond2020.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=75471

Sponge Bob

Greater Tuam had 9000 people in the census , you must add tuam urban and tuam rural man !

corktina

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Greater Tuam had 9000 people in the census , you must add tuam urban and tuam rural man !

oh well, that makes all the differnce...maybe we should build the rural ones a LUAS to get to the TUAM INTERCITY TRAIN STATION.... hmm, a bit long that..maybe we should shorten it... :cool:

Chris_533976

I still maintain that the idiocy of the Irish rail network can be defined by Woodlawn. What the hell is such a backwater doing as an intercity stop? There are only about 5 houses there and when stopped at the railway station the train completely blocks the level crossing (not that there are many cars about).

Sponge Bob

corktina wrote: »

to get to the TUAM INTERCITY TRAIN STATION.... hmm, a bit long that..maybe we should shorten it... :cool:

You cannot shorten it ya div . Tuam is a City ( as is Loughrea) because Tuam and Loughrea and Galway all have a bishopric and Tuam has two ARCHbishops ( no less) in situ making Tuam between twice and 2.7 times the City that Galway is .

It would be fair to say that Loughrea is also a City but that they are not getting their train station back so why should Tuam Is that any good to you ??

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Greater Tuam had 9000 people in the census , you must add tuam urban and tuam rural man !

I had had a couple of pints (err and one or two more) when I wrote that piece! so missed out on the other masses this line will serve!

Motto is don't mix stats and pints.

Sponge Bob

You need to look in the preliminary results for this specific table

http://beyond2020.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=77298

Tuam Urban 2700
Tuam Rural 4800

Then there are 2 or three other contigous electoral areas such as Belclare and that puts around 9000 persons within 4 miles of the station in Tuam in the 'greater' Tuam area .

The map based planning linked below allows you to toggle the Electoral districts on and off after you zoom in a bit and tick DED on the left thereby showing a red outline.

Tuam Urban is surrounded by Tuam Rural but ticking on Tuam Zoning clearly shows the zoning in Tuam goes to the end of the rural area at some points and from that you see the urbanised extent more clearly .

http://apps.galwaycoco.ie/planningenquiry/MainFrames.aspx

HTH

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You need to look in the preliminary results for this specific table

http://beyond2020.cso.ie/Census/TableViewer/tableView.aspx?ReportId=77298

Tuam Urban 2700
Tuam Rural 4800

Then there are 2 or three other contigous electoral areas such as Belclare and that puts around 9000 persons within 4 miles of the station in Tuam in the 'greater' Tuam area .

The map based planning linked below allows you to toggle the Electoral districts on and off after you zoom in a bit and tick DED on the left thereby showing a red outline.

Tuam Urban is surrounded by Tuam Rural but ticking on Tuam Zoning clearly shows the zoning in Tuam goes to the end of the rural area at some points and from that you see the urbanised extent more clearly .

http://apps.galwaycoco.ie/planningenquiry/MainFrames.aspx

HTH

All makes very little difference the numbers still don't justify this whole charade - and when the number of users on the Galway Limerick via Athenry line start coming in the line to Tuam and Claremorris will be history, just remind yourself of what Dempsey has said - having said all that no doubt WOT are now canvassing Enda on this one.

Sponge Bob

The numbers don't add up once you add ALL the numbers , that is correct . Tuam is still a City though and Dempsey was first mentioned in the book of Genesis as far as I am aware

corktina

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You cannot shorten it ya div . Tuam is a City ( as is Loughrea) because Tuam and Loughrea and Galway all have a bishopric and Tuam has two ARCHbishops ( no less) in situ making Tuam between twice and 2.7 times the City that Galway is .

It would be fair to say that Loughrea is also a City but that they are not getting their train station back so why should Tuam Is that any good to you ??

I believe a city is determined by having a Cathedral isnt ti? Always thought so....

Carawaystick

corktina wrote: »

I believe a city is determined by having a Cathedral isnt ti? Always thought so....

No.
Is Longford a City
Is Mullingar a city?
Is Loughrea a city?

I can see how people need their train lines linking their cities now. :rolleyes:

corktina

you can be town with a Cathedral but you cant be a City WITHOUT a cathedral.... tch...simple...

Cool Mo D

corktina wrote: »

you can be town with a Cathedral but you cant be a City WITHOUT a cathedral.... tch...simple...

Being a city has nothing at all to do with having a cathedral.

Cities in Ireland are laid down in law as Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford, all of which have their own city councils.
Kilkenny is also allowed call itself a city, as it is recognised that it has a history behind it, but it doesn't have the same powers as the actual cities.

westtip

corktina wrote: »

you can be town with a Cathedral but you cant be a City WITHOUT a cathedral.... tch...simple...

Corky all semantics anyway. Lets all get our feet back on the ground. Ireland has three SMALL provincial cities. One in the north east outside the jurisdiction, one on the East Coast and one on the south coast.

Galway is a large town, Limerick the same, as is Waterford; they may have city councils - but give me a break, they are no more than towns; Sligo BTW is a a small town and Claremorris and Tuam villages ,the former inhabited I believe by a tribe of village idiots known on this thread as west on track.

All this is in perspective of the thread subject; the love it or hate it WRC, and no matter what the emotional attachment to this joke of public transport planning, it will as i have oft said before, be the greatest white elephant yet.

Zoney

westtip - that isn't entirely reasonable. Limerick and Galway are cities in the Irish context, and indeed there are plenty of other countries where such small settlements are considered cities.

Kilkenny in even an Irish context is just a town despite the official "City" title, and the same goes for Newry and Armagh up North - probably Lisburn too despite its larger population (as it is "townlike" rather than "citylike"). Waterford perhaps is "citylike" despite the smaller population - maybe due to its historical status as a city.

westtip

town city call them what you like; I know what you mean but the critical mass for a suburban style commuter service does not exist for the WRC and the travel times will be too slow on the line in any event. Its a dead duck.

two interesting letters in the Irish Times about this subject today - one for it (from West on Track) the other arguing some fairly valid points against it, both worth a read, although I think the Poor west argument from West on Track will fall on deaf ears in the rest of the country.

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/

serfboard

westtip wrote: »

the critical mass for a suburban style commuter service does not exist for the WRC and the travel times will be too slow on the line in any event.

QED

Zebra3

I'm actually looking forward to this fiasco getting up and running.

It'll make that electronic voting cock up look like blip.

Judgement Day

Zebra3 wrote: »

I'm actually looking forward to this fiasco getting up and running.

It'll make that electronic voting cock up look like blip.

Can't see any similarity to the e voting fiasco. The WRC at the end of the day will be an operational piece of railway - albeit a lightly used one - but even in terms of scrap value the rails are worth something whereas the e voting machines are utterless worthless - not worth as much as a single Euro!

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

Can't see any similarity to the e voting fiasco. The WRC at the end of the day will be an operational piece of railway - albeit a lightly used one - but even in terms of scrap value the rails are worth something whereas the e voting machines are utterless worthless - not worth as much as a single Euro!

And with the Steam train specials running up and down the line within two summers it may actually become a tourist attraction in the summer and mothballed in the winter!

Carawaystick

corktina wrote: »

you can be town with a Cathedral but you cant be a City WITHOUT a cathedral.... tch...simple...

Dublin?

I'd be reasonably certain Mecca doesn't have a cathedral....

This definition gets very sectarian very quickly....

L1011

Zoney wrote: »

Kilkenny in even an Irish context is just a town despite the official "City" title, and the same goes for Newry and Armagh up North - probably Lisburn too despite its larger population (as it is "townlike" rather than "citylike"). Waterford perhaps is "citylike" despite the smaller population - maybe due to its historical status as a city.

Except Kilkenny's "city" title isn't even official any more, just allowed as a courtesy - Newry's is official despite not having a city or even borough council of its own!

corktina

Carawaystick wrote: »

Dublin?

I'd be reasonably certain Mecca doesn't have a cathedral....

This definition gets very sectarian very quickly....

id be reasonably ceertain that Mecca isnt in Ireland and therefore isnt relevant to a discussion on Irish Cities...could be wrong of course...