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Western Rail Corridor
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I would fully expect there'd be more than 4 a day but I would expect these to be by far the busiest with quite a few passengers, the rest would have feck all on them alrite most of em being ones with free travel passes probably. In fact one other service a day say leaving Tuam rnd half 10 and returning rnd 4 would be more than enough for these people. I would expect quite a few packed services at the weekend though judging by how many use Burkes & CIE buses. Whether or not this would be enough to get the government subvention I dont know tho but I think something else may happen which will increase the chance of the railway happening, get to that in a sec.
First if Phase 2 does go ahead then Phase 3 to Claremorris will deffo go through in my opinion but whether passenger numbers would justify anything other than a Friday evening from Galway, Monday morning from Claremorris as well as a week-end service I highly doubt. I think they'ed switch the timber & Norfolk liners to this route as well to reduce distance & hence diesel costs. As for Phase 4 to Sligo well here we agree this is a complete waste tho the land should be maintained and remain in CIE in case it does ever justify a route in the future.
Now the other thing I think will go in favour of the line to Tuam is the indefinate postponing of the M17 which in my opinion is virtually guaranteed to happen. I can easily see Biffo announcing that 'theres nothing they can do theyve just not enough money to build it but instead were going to rebuild the line for you all'. This would be done to try and maintain support in the area for the local Fianna Fail TD's/Councillors come the next election. Now I'm not saying this is right but I think it's certainly a possible scenario.
As for the WOT meeting I wont be going (the line doesn't bother me THAT much) but if I see anything about it in the Herald I'll post it ere.0 -
I would fully expect there'd be more than 4 a day but I would expect these to be by far the busiest with quite a few passengers, the rest would have feck all on them alrite most of em being ones with free travel passes probably. In fact one other service a day say leaving Tuam rnd half 10 and returning rnd 4 would be more than enough for these people. I would expect quite a few packed services at the weekend though judging by how many use Burkes & CIE buses. Whether or not this would be enough to get the government subvention I dont know tho but I think something else may happen which will increase the chance of the railway happening, get to that in a sec.
First if Phase 2 does go ahead then Phase 3 to Claremorris will deffo go through in my opinion but whether passenger numbers would justify anything other than a Friday evening from Galway, Monday morning from Claremorris as well as a week-end service I highly doubt. I think they'ed switch the timber & Norfolk liners to this route as well to reduce distance & hence diesel costs. As for Phase 4 to Sligo well here we agree this is a complete waste tho the land should be maintained and remain in CIE in case it does ever justify a route in the future.
Now the other thing I think will go in favour of the line to Tuam is the indefinate postponing of the M17 which in my opinion is virtually guaranteed to happen. I can easily see Biffo announcing that 'theres nothing they can do theyve just not enough money to build it but instead were going to rebuild the line for you all'. This would be done to try and maintain support in the area for the local Fianna Fail TD's/Councillors come the next election. Now I'm not saying this is right but I think it's certainly a possible scenario.
As for the WOT meeting I wont be going (the line doesn't bother me THAT much) but if I see anything about it in the Herald I'll post it ere.
Look what on earth are you on about: You don't go building railway lines to give pensioners a free run up and down the line all day.
You don't go building railway lines for which the capacity to run real services on does not exist
You don't go building railway lines just because of political pressure from a group that has not yet put forward one logical reason as to why it should happen - you listen to what they have to say - pat them on the back and then tell them to go away.
You don't go building railway lines when lets face it this project is about 10,000 projects down the line in terms of priority projects for this country.
IT WON'T HAPPEN ITS NOT A VOTE WINNER MOST PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A F**K THEY WANT THE ROAD BUILT!!!0 -
You don't go building railway lines just because of political pressure from a group that has not yet put forward one logical reason as to why it should happen - you listen to what they have to say - pat them on the back and then tell them to go away.
You don't go building railway lines when lets face it this project is about 10,000 projects down the line in terms of priority projects for this country.
If those two are true, in Ireland, then how did the first phase get built?0 -
Its not open yet, and was built during the biggest boom in history, (when people didnt give a hoot how much was spent on what) which wont ever happen again...and given the straight choice 99% of westerners will opt for the road....0
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The first phase got biult because the Government were throwing money around like no bodies business, but there were very few projects in the west that they could even pretend to justify on value for money grounds. The fact that there was very little being spent west of the Shannon left them vulnerable. So the first phase got built, despite a CBA that was never published because it was apparently so laughable. Helped that it was a notionally green project too - note lower case g.
The second phase is not going to happen, there should be no surprise or mystery around that. There are loads of official sources that make that very clear. I'm sure the Chambers of Commerce involved are fully aware of that too; this meeting is just window dressing.0 -
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Its not open yet, and was built during the biggest boom in history, (when people didnt give a hoot how much was spent on what) which wont ever happen again...and given the straight choice 99% of westerners will opt for the road....
corktina are you a politician or do you work in RTE by any chance? You have all the old cliches off to a tee! ....people didnt give a hoot how much was spent on what... I presume you're talking about yourself as I, and many others, have been ranting on for years about waste - e voting machines, Thornton Hall prison, PPARS, mini-CTC, cost over-runs on many many projects - road, Luas etc.etc... Nothing is more sickening that to see people, yourself included, stating that nobody cared about wasteful spending. It's like those media and other commentators who say we all are responsible for the present mess - how in God's name can that be true?
Also your fondness for quoting meaningless statistics as facts....99% of westerners will opt for the road......where do you come by such information? If you're not in RTE or politics you should consider it!
Anyway this is my 1,000 post - a milestone or should that be a millstone - I'll have to get a life one of these days.0 -
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Judgement Day wrote: »corktina are you a politician or do you work in RTE by any chance? You have all the old cliches off to a tee! ....people didnt give a hoot how much was spent on what... I presume you're talking about yourself as I, and many others, have been ranting on for years about waste - e voting machines, Thornton Hall prison, PPARS, mini-CTC, cost over-runs on many many projects - road, Luas etc.etc... Nothing is more sickening that to see people, yourself included, stating that nobody cared about wasteful spending. It's like those media and other commentators who say we all are responsible for the present mess - how in God's name can that be true?
Also your fondness for quoting meaningless statistics as facts....99% of westerners will opt for the road......where do you come by such information? If you're not in RTE or politics you should consider it!
Anyway this is my 1,000 post - a milestone or should that be a millstone - I'll have to get a life one of these days.
Congratulations on the millenium JD. Whilst we clearly don't agree on all things I know we do on some - and like you I hate to see public (ie our) money wasted on all the things you mentioned nor on the WRC. Re the 99% of course Corky is being anecdotal - but think about this of all the journeys taken to Dublin every month from say Ballina or Sligo - how many are taken by road (bus and car) and how many by train? And in reality how many of the total journeys between Limerick and Galway are going to convert into train journies - I think Corky is probably right - 99% of the people in the west really do want to see the Atlantic Road Corridor concept realised, because it will make a real difference to a lot of lives, a lot of businesses and will deliver economic help to the region - and in reality, most don't give a hoot about the T Junction (sorry errr - Corridor), because frankly its contribution to the region is going to be negligble. BTW wasn't the footie desperate - lucky result!0 -
Judgement Day wrote: »corktina are you a politician or do you work in RTE by any chance? You have all the old cliches off to a tee! ....people didnt give a hoot how much was spent on what... I presume you're talking about yourself as I, and many others, have been ranting on for years about waste - e voting machines, Thornton Hall prison, PPARS, mini-CTC, cost over-runs on many many projects - road, Luas etc.etc... Nothing is more sickening that to see people, yourself included, stating that nobody cared about wasteful spending. It's like those media and other commentators who say we all are responsible for the present mess - how in God's name can that be true?
Also your fondness for quoting meaningless statistics as facts....99% of westerners will opt for the road......where do you come by such information? If you're not in RTE or politics you should consider it!
Anyway this is my 1,000 post - a milestone or should that be a millstone - I'll have to get a life one of these days.
sooner the better yadda yadda yadda0 -
Sorry - I should have quoted both the area and town figures for Tuam - I quoted the latter cause I thought if I used the former I'd be accused of inflating the figures.
Tuam - Population (2006)
Town: 2,997
Environs: 4,622
3,000 into 24,000 does go eight times so it wasn't my maths at fault, just my choice of figures.0 -
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Sorry - I should have quoted both the area and town figures for Tuam - I quoted the latter cause I thought if I used the former I'd be accused of inflating the figures.
Tuam - Population (2006)
Town: 2,997
Environs: 4,622
3,000 into 24,000 does go eight times so it wasn't my maths at fault, just my choice of figures.
Just to clarify I didn't mean to suggest that you were deliberately misleading people in any way. My point is that your case is strong enough without the figures being embellished. Wasn't having a go at your maths either, that comment was meant to back up my argument not to have a pop at you.
Navan and Ennis are still 3 times the size of Tuam and that is a big difference so your comparison is more than valid.0 -
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Most people I know round the Tuam area thinks building this motorway is a complete waste of money. Most of the traffic that use the N17 north of Galway use it to go to Galway and not Limerick or beyond. This motorway will simply shift the traffic problem from the current bottlenecks to a new one and if it goes ahead you'll now have the N6, N18 and the N17 traffic all entering the city on the same road. Build a bypass of Claregalway and Tuam and resurface the road for a far less cost. In fact the actual distance from Galway to Tuam will increase as the motorway will pretty much follow the WRC route.
North of Tuam there's no way the traffic volume justifies a motorway and I travel this road every day. Realign the road between Lisconly and Masmore (it's the 1 bad stretch left between Milltown & Tuam), and between Carrownurlaun south of Ballindine to Milltown. You now have a pretty good road near enough all the way to Tobercurry.0 -
I fundamentally agree a full spec motorway will be overkill 2+1 or the type of dc they have around roosky dromod on the N4 would be fine, or even the wide single carriageway of the Claremorris Knock bypass - but you do need a seamless new road alignment that does not go through the towns and does not have household fronting on to it, nor every boreen criss crossing it. The current road from Tuam to Galway (not withstanding the Claregalway issue) is a deathtrap. There really is no need for "motorway" from Sligo to Tuam - but the bad spots so far not upgraded do need doing - which includes bypassing the towns and villages you mention - Do this and you simply don't need the WRC T Junction railway line.0
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Galway V Limerick price wars on track
THE re-opening of a rail link between Galway and Limerick later this year may signal good news for consumers, as traders in the two cities prepare to implement ‘value deals’ and compete against one another to entice shoppers.
Iarnród Éireann has confirmed that services on the direct rail-link between Limerick and Galway, will be opened in early December and the business communities in both cities are gearing up to lure customers to their city to cash in on the lucrative shopping bonanza in the run-up to Christmas.
CEO of Galway Chamber, Michael Coyle, said the opening of the first link in the Western Rail Corridor is a positive development and the enhanced access poses opportunities and threats to business
in Galway.
Mr Coyle said he is confident the City’s retailers and the hospitality sector are competitive, offer value for money and can attract visitors from Limerick, Ennis and South Galway to choose Galway City over Limerick.
“We are not fearful; we feel the value Galway has to offer in shops, restaurants, hotels, pubs, leisure and so on is as good here as anywhere in the country. The rail link opens up the Limerick shopping
market to people in Galway, although that competition already exists by road.
“If Limerick people perceive shopping to be better in Galway, and feel it’s only a short train journey away, they will travel, and vice versa. O’Connell Street Limerick is now a bit closer but that is an opportunity and it requires...
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What a ridiculous article! You would think this rail line is going to be a ultra high speed link to both cities or something!!0 -
Most people I know round the Tuam area thinks building this motorway is a complete waste of money. Most of the traffic that use the N17 north of Galway use it to go to Galway and not Limerick or beyond. This motorway will simply shift the traffic problem from the current bottlenecks to a new one and if it goes ahead you'll now have the N6, N18 and the N17 traffic all entering the city on the same road. Build a bypass of Claregalway and Tuam and resurface the road for a far less cost. In fact the actual distance from Galway to Tuam will increase as the motorway will pretty much follow the WRC route.
I am in favour of the motorway but I do agree that south of Tuam N17 traffic goes to Galway. The PPP will also include the bypass of Tuam and the main function of the N18/N17 is a gateway for south to north traffic along the western corridor not to facilitate a city that resides nearby. I do agree that from Rathmorissey to Galway city might need to be a 3 lane motorway in the future.North of Tuam there's no way the traffic volume justifies a motorway and I travel this road every day. Realign the road between Lisconly and Masmore (it's the 1 bad stretch left between Milltown & Tuam), and between Carrownurlaun south of Ballindine to Milltown. You now have a pretty good road near enough all the way to Tobercurry.
The NRA are not planning to make this motorway. 2+2 is the plan. Its not going to be constructed for a long time.0 -
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What a ridiculous article! You would think this rail line is going to be a ultra high speed link to both cities or something!!
Tech2 agreed the absurdity of it all becomes funnier by the day - of course most of this is the pre-opening hype being built up by WOT; to show what a demand there is for this bullet train - As said a long time back the real test for this "commuter" service will be on a wet Tuesday morning or evening in February - lets see the trains packed then with busy "inter city" commuters!
Of course the bargain hunters going from Limerick to Galway or vice versa will have to allow 1 hour 50 minutes each way for their trip to get these great bargains - and lug their bags on and off the trains and then get home from the station.....Oh glory be when will they wake up - we live in the age of mass car ownership and out of town shopping emporiums, and they had better watch the timetable they won't want to miss the last train home in the early evening!!
It really is a laugh though innit! They are trying to make this service sound like a high speed rail commuter service, the reality will soon kick in .0 -
in fairness, it wouldnt be people travelling the whol;e length of the line from Lim to Gal, just the country folk from Gort and um....well whatever other village the trains gonna stop at...if they arent using the bus to flood in, they arent going to be using the train either are they? Stands to reason...the bus stops in dozens of places , the train almost nowhere...0
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Slight rewrite -Galway V Limerick price wars on track
THE re-opening of a rail link between Galway and Limerick later this year may signal good news for consumers, as traders in the two cities prepare to implement ‘value deals’ and compete against one to make the money spent on the Western Rail Corridor at least partially worthwhile.
Iarnród Éireann has confirmed that services on the direct rail-link between Limerick and Galway, will be opened in early December and the business communities in both cities are gearing up to lure customers to their city to cash in on the lucrative shopping bonanza in the run-up to Christmas.
CEO of Galway Chamber, Michael Coyle, said the opening of the first link in the Western Rail Corridor is a positive development and the enhanced access poses opportunities and threats to business
in Galway.
Mr Coyle said he is confident the City’s retailers and the hospitality sector are competitive, offer value for money and can attract visitors from Limerick, Ennis and South Galway to choose Galway City over Limerick.
“We are not fearful; we feel the value Galway has to offer in shops, restaurants, hotels, pubs, leisure and so on is as good here as anywhere in the country. The rail link opens up the Limerick shopping
market to people in Galway, although that competition already exists by road.
“If Limerick people perceive shopping to be better in Galway, and feel it’s only a short train journey away, they will travel, and vice versa. O’Connell Street Limerick is now a bit closer but that is an opportunity and it requires...0 -
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http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/
Has anyone seen this ridiculous letter in the IT today- never seen such simplistic thinking (except from WOT)
Good amendment Chris - somehow don't think we will see that in the Galway press!0 -
westtip - the author of that letter is a respected civil engineer of many years standing and has studied, debated and generally agitated on behalf of Irish railways for more than thirty years now, so I would not dismiss his simple contribution to the WRC debate. The letter was short and not full of detail or wikipedia references but I assure you that there is no better man than Alan French to back up his arguments with facts if required. He is the thinking man/woman's Sean Barrett.0
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Judgement Day wrote: »westtip - the author of that letter is a respected civil engineer of many years standing and has studied, debated and generally agitated on behalf of Irish railways for more than thirty years now, so I would not dismiss his simple contribution to the WRC debate. The letter was short and not full of detail or wikipedia references but I assure you that there is no better man than Alan French to back up his arguments with facts if required. He is the thinking man/woman's Sean Barrett.
JD thanks for that insight - I would have imagined the writer had a background interest in the argument - in particular as he comes from "leafy south Dublin" as our friends from WOT would describe his provenance! However I do think he has been somewhat simplistic - (BTW I for one would not trust Wikipedia for a reference on how to make pancakes), Comparing the WRC with the DART and LUAS is like comparing apples and pears and this simple analagy of saying someone objected to the DART 30 years ago means therefore we should dismiss objections to WRC on the same grounds is total nonsense - and you well know that. IN fact it strikes me as clutching at straws.
If the supporters of WRC are going to compare the DART with WRC lets then do that:
For the sake of this argument lets compare Gort with Greystones and Tuam with Malahide. if you have a map of the country to hand draw a line from Tuam to Malahide and a similar line from Gort to Greystones - they are both at a similar latitude so the line is quite straight - So we are comparing the Malahide to Greystones Dart with 27 stations and the WRC from Tuam to Gort - on which there are seven stations - 8 if count the double stop at Athenry for trains going along the "corridor" from Tuam to Gort via Galway, this would be a reasonable comparison in terms of length of rail line. (of course I am not including the Sutton and Howth spur for the DART!)
Now lets think about how many people live along the DART line between Greystones and the City Centre; and the same from Malahide to the City centre - by live along lets say within half a miles walking distance of each of the 27 stations, and then do the same comparison for the WRC, excluding those who drive to their respective stations, because if we add in all those within say a three mile radius the figures will knock WRC completely out of the water. I am sure someone on these boards can trawl through the CSO data and do this - I have not got the time! Lets do the same population comparison on the seven stations along this section of the WRC.
Critical Mass as mentioned by Minister O'Cuiv in May - has to play a part in all this.
Now think about car dependency in the west of Ireland. For those who don't have a car living in isolated one off homesteads or even in small towns and villages - start thinking about the role of rural bus schemes (of which there are many but need to be more). Think about express bus services on good roads. Think about the greater good for a greater number - and how a well subvented and well organised bus service could provide a fantastic public transport service to the west. Think about the leve of subvention needed for WRC and how this might be better spent. Think about Road transport dependency for the delivery of goods to our shops in the west. Think about Road transport for dependency on getting to crucial services such as medical centres and hospitals - Alan in his letter in the Irish times today states in his letter"I suspect it is not so much a bias against the West, as against anything on rails" is saying that those against the WRC are anti rail - far from it - many of us on these boards including me BTW are very pro rail - but only when the conditions suit - they do suit for DART, Luas, Navan rail line etc. They really don't as a public transport solution for Tuam to Galway or Gort to Galway. This in reality is the great lost opportunity of a campaigning group such as WOT, if they were put the energy into what we need in the west it would be great - but they are creating a smokescreen and distraction to the real public transport and infrastructure issues because they are dominated by an obsession which blinds rational thought.0 -
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Derek - one word - BRILLIANT!!!!0
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2pEvr32C7g
Derek this may give you a few ideas on the final solution for the WRC. Great trailer - any truth in the Clint East rumour reprising the Dirty Harry role as Fr.McGreil?0 -
Make or break time on the Tuam rail connection says Chamber of Commerce
A VITAL decision on whether Tuam railway station will reopen in the near future is imminent and the local Chamber of Commerce is calling for an all-out lobbying campaign to put pressure on the government to live up to a promise to have the town back on track by 2011.
Tuam Chamber of Commerce are to hold a meeting in the town next week to discuss what strategy to take regarding reconnecting Tuam to the national rail network.
A guest speaker from the West on Track group which has been campaigning on the Western Rail Corridor issue for a number of years will address the meeting in the Ard Ri Hotel on Tuesday next, September 8, at 8pm.
In a statement a spokesperson for the Chamber said: "A decision will be taken in the next 8 weeks on whether or not to rebuild the railway line to Tuam. The Ennis to Athenry section of the Western Rail Corridor has cost €1.5m per km and therefore the extension of the line to Tuam will only cost €30m to rebuild. Compare this with a cost of €21m per km for the Navan Railway line and it is clear that this investment represents value for money.
We have an opportunity to have this line re-opened in a year but what is needed now for the people of Tuam, from business to local elected representatives to the citizens of our town, is to put pressure on central Government to deliver on their promises. Now is the time to raise our voices in unison to fight for the infrastructure that our HUB town badly needs."
The organisers of the meeting are calling on all interested parties to turn up to the meeting and show their support for this vital piece of infrastructure for Tuam and the region.
From last Wednesday's Tuam Herald
What happens if people turn up and say - this whole thing is completely unnecessary a good bus service would suffice? In the current climate it won't get the go ahead from the Minister of Finance; And in any event Dempsey is on record a few times of saying there will be no decision until the patronage of WRC phase 1 is assessed by IE.; and as the phase one line won't be opening until early December (latest statement), the required look at patronage of that line won't be complete for at least six months - and as IE will actually be the ones making the recommendation to the minister don't get too optimistic, cos they absolutely do not want it! and in nine months time the whole country could be being run by the IMF and what then????0 -
Judgement Day wrote: »Derek this may give you a few ideas on the final solution for the WRC. Great trailer - any truth in the Clint East rumour reprising the Dirty Harry role as Fr.McGreil?
I shouldn't really be posting spoilers here but...0 -
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We are either all very sad or very talented sponge are you responsible for this brilliantly funny piece.0
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