Western Rail Corridor

westtip

fh041205 wrote: »

Lovely plumage though. I may not be of any use to you, but it does look good.

Always worth another look at this ex parrot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE

IIMII

Monday, 31 August 2009

Some people think that there are those in the deep dark echelons of the Department of Finance who firmly believe they rule the world. Their ‘Dublin east coast mentality’ is not often open to the need and aspirations of the mere mortals from the west. Their attitude is best summed up in the latest scribal meanderings contained in the MacCarthy report, better known as An Bord Snip Nua. Axing services to save money is a one-dimensional exercise. It is an economic exercise best left on the scribble pad of bored economists who have nothing better to do. What it fails to consider is the social impact of imposing cuts on community services. People and communities are three-dimensional.
Failing to acknowledge this basic fault in the report also allows other slippages. There are claims from some Mayo teachers that if the recommendations of the report are implemented then 80% of Mayo’s national schools will have to close! The most obvious faux pas from the western mind is the cold eye cast on the Western Rail Corridor. Colm MacCarthy and his fellow author of the report (from the Department of Finance) did not have a remit to examine capital projects. Regardless, it seems that anytime is a good time for the eastern Gaels to slag off the wonders of the west. Why make disparaging remarks about the Western Rail Corridor, one wonders? It was not his first time because he seems to use every opportunity to denigrate the project.
The real challenge here will come for the Government later this year when monies are allocated for next year’s projects. Money MUST be allocated to the Western Rail Corridor in 2010 or the project will be set back for years. Work is progressing and must not be allowed to abate. The project always made sense but makes more sense in a recession. The Tuam section of the line is scheduled to be ready for 2011. It is Government policy. That and the work done to date must be respected.
When the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) was being prepared for the M17/M18 motorways a figure of 24,000 vehicles per day on the N17 Tuam to Galway road was used. If 10% (2,400) switched to rail it would mean a shift of over 620,000 passenger journeys per annum (allowing for holidays and weekends). A 15% shift would raise that figure to over 930,000 with 20% surpassing 1,240,000 passenger journeys per annum.
On a comparative basis, the Limerick-Dublin Intercity attracts 827,000 passenger journeys per annum; the Cobh-Cork Commuter 594,000; and the Tralee-Dublin Intercity 540,000.
Assuming a fare of €6 one-way or €12 daily-return it would mean a weekly charge of €60 (less the tax saved on the Government rail allowance scheme). This would translate as more than €3.7million revenue based on a 10% shift to rail; almost €5.6million based on a 15% shift and almost €7.5million if there was a 20% shift of passengers from road to rail. Once the Western Rail Corridor is open then the only way is up!
Another comparison, using a report from The Meath Chronicle about the new rail link between Clonsilla and Dunboyne, set to open in September 2010. “…the station complex at Pace, Dunboyne, will boast the biggest car park in the country, with space for 1,200 vehicles… accommodation bridges are now complete along the route and upgrading works are continuing at Barnhill, Stirling and Dunboyne bridges. The Royal Canal Bridge was lifted into position last week, providing a link from Clonsilla Station over the Royal Canal… The interchange at Pace has been substantially completed by the NRA/M3JV, who are building the M3 motorway, providing two bridges for the railway line.”
The new rail line will boast 7.5 kilometres of double track between Clonsilla and Dunboyne. The project will cost €160million. That works out at €21.33million per kilometre. The Ennis-Athenry section of the Western Rail Corridor is currently under construction. It is 50 kilometres and will cost €70million or €1.4million per kilometre!
Add in a Galway Congestion Study (from Galway County Council). 30,000 cars enter Galway City daily, that’s 60,000 individual journeys. With a 15-minute delay in journey times it equates to 15,000 hours per day. Based on €30 (work-time) per hour this costs over €190million. Based on €10 (commuting time) it costs €54million per annum. The Galway Races (when the tent was up!) yielded €60 million for Galway City!
The Western Rail Corridor has 6 years of solid commitment from many volunteers to ensure that people from the region receive proper services. It is make your mind up time for this Government. The Tuam section of the project cannot be jettisoned unless Dublin 4 notepad economics wins – the price of everything and the value of nothing. Keep the West awake!

IIMII

Monday, 14 September 2009

“Was the An Bord Snip recommendation not to complete the Western Rail Corridor an expression of ‘the tyranny of superior knowledge’ to which most people must submit without serious questioning?”


by Micheál MacGréil

As we approach decision time in relation to cut-backs in public spending and a more equitable distribution of the tax burden, it is necessary to make a case for the continuity of capital investment in the Western Rail Corridor north of Athenry.
There is no doubt in my mind that the time has come for joint community action in support for the continuity of the restoration of the track from Athenry to Tuam immediately. A renewed campaign must continue to be all-party and constitute a united front. Concerned citizens should also be encouraged to express their support. The recent ‘Report of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure Programmes’ (An Bord SNIP) has summarily dismissed the WRC above Athenry and recommended that no more funds be made available for this very important transport infrastructure. In so doing it did not give any justification for its proposal to a project that had been approved by the Government in ‘Transport 21’ and later agreed by the Programme for Government in 2007. Was this an expression of the “tyranny of superior knowledge” to which the people must submit without serious questioning? So far, it has been very disappointing not to read of a serious objection from the Board of CIE in defence of a more viable public transport (railway) system!
In a time of economic recession investment in worthy infrastructure is highly to be commended. In this case the amount of State investment is quite small and provides real value for money. Because the track and thoroughfare has been preserved, the basic cost is minimal, at an estimated €2 million a mile as compared with €16 million a mile from Dublin to Dunboyne. With the reduction in materials and labour costs due to the economic down-turn, it is most likely that the level of productivity in financial terms will be higher.
Another important factor concerning State expenditure at this time is the fact that the net cost of the project is likely to be around half the actual money paid by the exchequer. Up to one third of the wages paid are refunded through income tax and PRSI, levies, etc. VAT returns will be increased and the amount of unemployment benefits (dole and related entitlements) saved by the Government will be considerable. The cumulative amount of returns to the State reduces the actual cost of the project to at least half of the nominal grant, or very near it. What is actually required in 2010 is just €15 million to maintain the plan agreed in Transport 21 (in my opinion the net cost to the State is between €8 and €9 million).
Once the phase to Tuam is finished in 2011, the next phase will be from Tuam to Claremorris, which links the WRC to the Westport/Ballina to Dublin line. For the present however, we must all support the immediate need of going to Tuam. The total cost over two and a half years to Tuam is estimated to be less than €45 million (or net cost of €25 million!)
May I share with you a vision of the future of Irish Railways. In all probability the wind and the ocean will become a main source of electricity in the years ahead. Fossil fuels will become less acceptable and less available. The most effective way to ‘power’ public transport will be through a good network of electrified rail routes from the ocean and wind (renewable) sources. In such a situation the cross-radial railway from Rosslare to Sligo (and possibly further north to Derry), will be a major spine in the Irish rail network or web. What a realistic dream? It will raise the quality of life of our people and ensure our security for generations to come!
If we all join together now and express our support for the continuation to Tuam during 2010 and 2011, we will be seeing to it that the West of Ireland has a good future. The overall cost of the WRC is but 1.5% of the Transport 21 capital budget serving 26% of the Irish people. All we need now is the right political decision, which I am hopeful we will get.

Micheál Mac Gréil, SJ, is a well-known sociologist and Secretary of Western Inter-County Railway Committee and Patron of West-on-Track.

IIMII

It's ironic - I believe the papers in Meath are to run a series of articles on resource wastage (engineering and financial) on the WRC to ship a busload and a bit of people per day along a 200km (or whatever it is) series of track with country lane Victorian era speed-limits, when after 15 years of promises all that has been built on the Navan line on the Meath sections is an array of obstacles

4.7 miles of track to Dunboyne after 15 years for thousands of commuters and that lot begrudge it because so far they only have 36 miles. And that's 36 miles to carry barely enough passengers to fill a double decker Bus Éireann coach - they are something else. And in both pieces, it is convieniently overlooked that the line to Dunboyne is being part-financed from development levies, so there will be at least some local contributions to cost over the coming years, unlike any part of the WRC

westtip

Yawn........

black47

westtip wrote: »

Yawn........

A fairly pathetic reply. Any serious comments or points to make?

DWCommuter

black47 wrote: »

A fairly pathetic reply. Any serious comments or points to make?

I think Westtips contribution to this thread is a good enough argument already.

Judgement Day

IIMII wrote: »

It's ironic - I believe the papers in Meath are to run a series of articles on resource wastage (engineering and financial) on the WRC to ship a busload and a bit of people per day along a 200km (or whatever it is) series of track with country lane Victorian era speed-limits, when after 15 years of promises all that has been built on the Navan line on the Meath sections is an array of obstacles

4.7 miles of track to Dunboyne after 15 years for thousands of commuters and that lot begrudge it because so far they only have 36 miles. And that's 36 miles to carry barely enough passengers to fill a double decker Bus Éireann coach - they are something else. And in both pieces, it is convieniently overlooked that the line to Dunboyne is being part-financed from development levies, so there will be at least some local contributions to cost over the coming years, unlike any part of the WRC

I see no reason to have any linkage between the WRC and the the Navan line reopening save that they are both CIE projects (and therefore destined to be financial disasters) and they are both overseen by that fool Noel Dempsey. If the voters in Dempsey's constituency put him back in at the next election they deserve exactly what they get.

Carawaystick

The level crossing in Craughwell is closed and a temporary diversion to the north of the existing level crossing is in place. Wasn't this supposed to be open last summer and wasn't the only hold up supposed to be Gort station???

westtip

black47 wrote: »

A fairly pathetic reply. Any serious comments or points to make?

DWCommuter wrote: »

I think Westtips contribution to this thread is a good enough argument already.

DW said it for me - thanks Derek -please click on my user name and trawl through the essays and arguments I have put on this thread, I have nay energy left to repeat the endless arguments and listen to the usual irrational tirade re Dublin and the dangerous selfish smug easterners. I see the blessed leader is still churning out the same old stuff. which is why I yawned at reading it all again....

Sure it's obvious by now that anyone who provides rationale sensible argument against the WRC should in fact be burnt at the stake in Eyre Square and have their ashes damned to the polluted waters of the Corrib. Away with ye, I need my bed.

IIMII

Judgement Day wrote: »

I see no reason to have any linkage between the WRC and the the Navan line reopening save that they are both CIE projects

The 4.7 miles of track isn't a disaster - it has everything going for it. And unlike the WRC it will meet it's operating costs, or won't be far off it. This crap from the west annoys me because Meath and west-Dublin should have had this glorified railway siding opened years ago, and when it is, that shower try to cut the legs out from under it. And by the way, they aren't talking about the Navan line - they are talking about the Dunboyne project which is a hell of a lot more modest than (and 18 miles from) Navan.

Look, for the passenger numbers on the WRC, you could through on a double decker coach on the route and still get there quicker what with 50mph speed restrictions on the line and the miniscule numbers projected for the line.

The WRC is a joke and the constant comparisons with the Drogheda bypass (tolled), the Luas (how many passenger journeys?) and now Dunboyne is an even bigger joke.

Judgement Day

IIMII - I do not think that the Dunboyne 'siding', as you put it, is a bad idea per se but the fact that it is being planned, constructed and operated by CIE/IE does not bode well. Incidentally, if it covers its operating costs it will be the first heavy rail commuter line in living memory to do so.

westtip

IIMII wrote: »

The WRC is a joke and the constant comparisons with the Drogheda bypass (tolled), the Luas (how many passenger journeys?) and now Dunboyne is an even bigger joke.

IIMII think I owe you an apology when I put my Yawn... after your post a few posts back; you had put up the article by the hallowed and holy great spititual leader of the movement and for some reason I had taken you as a follower of the sacred and blessed leader.

Oh most humble apologies for misreading your post and sentiments and for even thinking you had slipped into the hands of the spiritual and blessed movement.

IIMII

They have a fancy way of calculating those things which if I remember properly was in the Clonsilla Pace feasability study (or one of those publications which were made public for Dunboyne but not the WRC), and which was online for a long time but which I can't find now. Either way, Pace Park and Ride is being built to hold 1,400 vehicles which was announced as the largest of it's kind in Ireland when it was first designed. Dunboyne/Pace will perform very well

dermo88

I hate cheapskate solutions to the likes of a viable project such as Dunboyne to Navan, but is there a way that it could work better in the medium term as single track with a dynamic loop, in the same manner as that done with the new Midleton line?

The way it is being proposed costs a lot more than it should. Why not build it as single track initially, and then, after 10 years, double track it when the volumes are there, rather than go for the whole double track hog.

IIMII

westtip wrote: »

IIMII think I owe you an apology when I put my Yawn... after your post a few posts back

I wouldn't worry about it - you wouldn't be the first person I've made yawn..

IIMII

dermo88 wrote: »

I hate cheapskate solutions to the likes of a viable project such as Dunboyne to Navan, but is there a way that it could work better in the medium term as single track with a dynamic loop, in the same manner as that done with the new Midleton line?

The way it is being proposed costs a lot more than it should. Why not build it as single track initially, and then, after 10 years, double track it when the volumes are there, rather than go for the whole double track hog.

dermo88, truth is nobody knows what is happening with Phase 2. Past performance may not be a guide to future performance and all of that, but on the face of it there isn't much likelihood it will happen. The flip side of that though is that there is a belief up here that it is happening, and the rumour mill has it that developers etc are prepared to contribute heavily in terms of land and levies to get it to Navan. It's easier going on past ineptitude and indifference to presume it won't happen. But we won't know that it definitely isn't happening until 2011 as if they are to keep their word as to have ground broken before the next presumed election date in 2012, they'll need a railway order at some point in 2011.

I am very cynical about phase 2, but I'm hearing an unsettling amount of positivity up here from the strangest quarters about it's prospects, which prevents me from just presuming that it isn't happening. Short answer is that I don't know what will happen, but in relation to your earlier post, it's probably safe to assume it's double track or nothing. And in the meantime, it'll take a while to see how traffic patterns adjust to the M3, the new N3/M50 junction and the line to Pace next summer. And even when that settles, the whole guaranteed toll revenue to the M3 toll operator will have to be looked. Every car taken off the M3 by the railway, will mean a toll subvention by the government if tolls fall below an agreed level. It's all up in the air

westtip

from the N17/18 thread on infrastructure: Love it. The priority given to this road scheme = WRC RIP.

tech2 wrote: »

Could the OP rename it to M17/M18 as it was redesignated please? I will be extremely happy if it goes ahead. Here is the map of the scheme:

got a question does anyone on this thread get the 08.00 from Athenry to Galway in the morning and train back in the evening (ie using the Dublin main line as a commuter service) would just be interested how many get on the train each morning at 8 in Athenry to get into Galway by 8.21. - is it being used much as a commuter service?

I can't speak for the morning but the trains in the evening are being used by commuters. Quite a few get off at Athenry whenever I have taken the train just after 6.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't speak for the morning but the trains in the evening are being used by commuters. Quite a few get off at Athenry whenever I have taken the train just after 6.

Interesting but how many is quite a few? enough to justify a commuter line?

jkmanc1974

westtip wrote: »

Interesting but how many is quite a few? enough to justify a commuter line?

Would say approx 250/300 people get off the 605 from Galway, similar amount get the early train at 8am into Galway....

Brgds
johnny

westtip

sure it's not a bigger number 250 -300 are you having a laugh! - just wanted to get a view!!

corktina

the numbers cant be similar...there would be more getting off in Galway than at Athenry on the way back..unless the train ONLY goes to/from athenry.

Victor

corktina wrote: »

the numbers cant be similar...there would be more getting off in Galway than at Athenry on the way back..unless the train ONLY goes to/from athenry.

No its Athlone-Galway.

jkmanc1974

jkmanc1974 wrote: »

Would say approx 250/300 people get off the 605 from Galway, similar amount get the early train at 8am into Galway....

Brgds
johnny

No where near that from what I have seen - maybe 50 odd - ie not enough for a commuter train service.

The train was still very full after that point all the way to Dublin.

189 people is the size of a Ryanair jet for comparison. Maybe just count the numbers getting off at a particular door?

jkmanc1974

Deleted User wrote: »

No where near that from what I have seen - maybe 50 odd - ie not enough for a commuter train service.

The train was still very full after that point all the way to Dublin.

189 people is the size of a Ryanair jet for comparison. Maybe just count the numbers getting off at a particular door?

Know from 3 years of experience of using the particular service coming out from Galway(605) - may have estimated it incorrectly but not by that much...

West-Tip - Cheers for the constructive comment, see above having actually used the service......why the hell would I make something up?

corktina

I think westtipps view of travel statistics is soured by the spin that the pro-WRC have used on potential passenger numbers on that line (closley allied to Athenry to Galway services of course)

To solve it, how about someone local popping down a couple of times and doing a survey for us.

jkmanc1974

Can get someone who uses the service on a daily basis to do that Corktina no probs(no long live in Athenry myself), will update mid next week

Brgds
Johnny

westtip

jkmanc1974 wrote: »

Know from 3 years of experience of using the particular service coming out from Galway(605) - may have estimated it incorrectly but not by that much...

West-Tip - Cheers for the constructive comment, see above having actually used the service......why the hell would I make something up?

JK sorry about the over reaction - uncalled for and thanks for your views I just find it hard to believe that 250/300 get off at Athenry every evening from the 6.05 train out of Galway - there's no reason you would have made it up - I do however find it hard to believe, I would say most peak time Darts wouldn't be depositing 250/300 passengers at a lot of the Dublin suburban stations, even at peak times, which is why I doubt your estimates ...again apology for over reaction, i have edited that comment out.

jkmanc1974

No probs, have asked a mate of mine who uses the service to check this out next week.......also was living in Athenry from 05-07(boom time in Galway) hence things might have dipped off somewhat...

Brgds
Johnny