Western Rail Corridor

Sponge Bob

Athenry covers a larger catchment than pretty much ANY suburban Dart station in Dublin or Luas stop does ...say 15000 people. Like Dun Laoghaire shall we say .

Dun Laoghaire are served every 10 mins at that peak so a 6.05 from Galway should be compared to 6 Dun Laoghaire trains for accuracy .

westtip

What's the car park like at Athenry - are there a lot of park and riders each day?

Zoney

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Athenry covers a larger catchment than pretty much ANY suburban Dart station in Dublin or Luas stop does ...say 15000 people. Like Dun Laoghaire shall we say .

Dun Laoghaire are served every 10 mins at that peak so a 6.05 from Galway should be compared to 6 Dun Laoghaire trains for accuracy .

Well, except that trains at a sixth of the frequency is a less attractive travel option, thus a direct comparison of 1:6 would not be comparing apples with apples.

invincibleirish

There was an article posted on this thread by a local Galway paper last year i believe, haven't been able to find it after a quick google but i believe the jist of it was that Galway - Atnenry numbers were fairly low and there was no pressing demand for introducing extra services.

Ham'nd'egger

westtip wrote: »

JK sorry about the over reaction - uncalled for and thanks for your views I just find it hard to believe that 250/300 get off at Athenry every evening from the 6.05 train out of Galway - there's no reason you would have made it up - I do however find it hard to believe, I would say most peak time Darts wouldn't be depositing 250/300 passengers at a lot of the Dublin suburban stations, even at peak times, which is why I doubt your estimates ...again apology for over reaction, i have edited that comment out.

Back in April 2008, I was in Galway for the day and got the 18:05 train home; the carriage I was in was almost empty although it was a Wednesday and schools would have been off early. The service into Galway did have a good lot of school kids getting on at Ballinasloe and Athenry and we crossed a train at both stations that seemed to have a lot of kids on them.

Bottom line? Based on what I saw I'd doubt if 250/300 all the year round but I have no doubts that there is a lot of people using it as a short hop service based on the school kids earlier in the day.

Chris_533976

Compared to the other stops on the Galway-Dublin line, a surprisingly large number get on and off in Athenry, far more than you'd expect for a place the size it is.

Woodlawn on the other hand, well there are more carriages of the train than there are houses around the station.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/8962-one-four-workers-commute-outside-county

MORE than a quarter of all workers in the western region travel from as far away as Mayo and Clare to work in Galway City, according to a new report by the Western Development Commission (WDC).

The report, which is based on previously unreleased data from the 2006 Census, has important implications for the provision of transport, infrastructure and services to and from the city for policy makers.

The report, ‘Travel to Work and Labour Catchments in the Western Region’, shows that the Galway city labour catchment is by far the largest in the western region, making up 26% of all workers within the western Region, with 64,455 people living within the labour catchment and at work in April 2006. The next four largest labour catchments (Ennis, Sligo, Letterkenny and Castlebar) account for a further 30% combined.

The number of people commuting to Galway city from the north of the county, where Tuam is the largest town, is greater than the number commuting to Galway city from the the east, which contains the Loughrea labour catchment, which in turn is greater than the number commuting from the south, in which the Gort labour catchment is the biggest. Yet it is the east of the county that is getting commuter rail transport first.

“There is significant congestion on the current primary road network into Galway city, particularly the N17 and N18, suggesting latent demand for commuter rail services,” the report states.

“Additionally, the data indicates that...

Please note how dispersed the population is (one off rural houses) and that most jobs are on the edge of the city - Ballybrit is two miles from the station as the crow flies. I don't know how the journalist drew those conclusions from that data.

Aidan1

The WDC has always had this problem - they see their role as spreading out development around the 'west', and parse all of their analysis on this basis. In other words, it doesn't matter what the evidence suggests, the answer will always be the same - the region needs more investment to support a dispersed population. Case in point, - it was outlined to me last year by an individual working for the WDC that the big 'problem' they have in the region is that Galways acts a magnet for jobs and investment, and that even towns like Tuam have largely become dormitory towns, and that they were looking for ways of maintaining these rural communities by 'spreading out' development. The WRC is touted as a means of supporting these communities, despite the fact that lax planning policies have meant that the population is spread out over a vast area.

I did explain as politely as I could that the only reason the population of the west hadn't completely collapsed in the last 30 years was because Galway had grown very quickly, due to (here we go again) the fact that it had obtained a critical mass of population and industry and that trying to 'fight' these basic tenets of economic geography was a waste of everyones' time and money. Parts of the rural development sector in Ireland take this bizarre approach - all that can be done is to continually make reference to reality.

The down side of this is that there are really serious planning issues that have gone unaddressed. The absolute disaster that has been the unplanned growth of Galway, with the obvious consequences for tranport and land use planning (and water services) are a great example of the state looking the wrong way, due to politically enforced pieties.

Zoney

Aidan1: At least Galway has proper city boundaries and is run by a single authority. Limerick on the other hand has only about half the city area inside the city boundary.

Aidan1

True - but the Galway situation gives the lie to the simplistic argument that simply pulling all of the urban area into the one LA Area will fix everything. Large amounts of the Cork urban area are also outside the city boundary (the city per se is around 126,000, the urban area is over 190,000) but the two LAs have worked together since the late 70s, so that the city's development has had at least some planning behind it.

If the 3 LAs could have gotten their act together around Limerick, at least some of the issues could have been addressed. That said, I don't think Limerick is that badly off in terms of planning, it's a nice city, with a clearly defined core - it's most serious problems are social rather than infrastructural. Anyways, back to the WRC.

Victor

"MORE than a quarter of all workers in the western region travel from as far away as Mayo and Clare to work in Galway City, according to a new report by the Western Development Commission (WDC)." - Lies, damned lies and walruses.

---

The report http://www.wdc.ie/publications/reports-and-papers/reports-2009/

DWCommuter

Victor wrote: »

"MORE than a quarter of all workers in the western region travel from as far away as Mayo and Clare to work in Galway City, according to a new report by the Western Development Commission (WDC)." - Lies, damned lies and walruses.

---

The report http://www.wdc.ie/publications/reports-and-papers/reports-2009/

Ah Im sorry. Time to roll it out again.:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Nd6R19od4

Aidan1

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CityDevelopmentBoard/ProjectsandSchemes/GalwayCityAtlas20082009/

Sorry, meant to put this in earlier. It's a link to the recent Galway City Development Board 'Galway City Atlas 2008-2009'. Some interesting figures and maps in there. The basic problem faced by planners is clear - the fact that very large numbers of people live in recently constructed housing in regions without access to public transport, and separated from the main industrial/employment locations by substandard roads, themselves characterised by plentiful chokepoints.

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

Ah Im sorry. Time to roll it out again.:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Nd6R19od4

Ah Derek another timely reminder of the reality of it all - I see in the Galway news they reported thousands signing a petition in Tuam for the extension of the WRCNOA (new abbreviation for WRC North of Athenry)and the Govt to throw out the direct recommendation of An bord Snip,

http://www.galwaynews.ie/8973-thousands-voice-opposition-proposals-halt-western-rail-corridor

“THOUSANDS VOICE OPPOSITION TO PROPOSALS TO HALT WESTERN RAIL CORRIDOR
Sun 27th September 2009
Thousands of people in Tuam have voiced their opposition to proposals to abandon phase two of the Western rail corridor.

Over three thousand signatures were collected at four campaign stands in Tuam yesterday, which were organised by the town council.

People signing say they're completely opposed to recent proposal from An Bord Snip, which recommend that the Western rail corridor be finished in Athenry"

You see this in itself is not news but news creation to suit your own needs - a common trick by PR campaigners - get people to sign a simple petition and "prove your case" - lets add a caveat to this report - I wonder how many of those three thousand who reportedly signed up for support of the WRCNOA were public sector employees, or claimed any form of social welfare I wonder how many owned their own private residences - you see the point is this . We are totally F****ked, thanks to the finanancial mismanagement of our government and now we are faced with choices:

Cut public sector pay by 5% according to yesterdays Sunday Times

Introduce new taxes, like rates (which the rest of Europe has BTW)

Cut social welfare payments

Or if we are not prepared to to do the above - well as the Sunday Times reported yesterday on its front page said:

Sunday Times front page yesterday:"A number of ministers are preparing to press for a reduction in next years national development plan funding of up to 1.5 billion"

Now were these options put to the 3000 signatories in Tuam?? So what do you folks in Tuam want: Your railway to Eyre Square via Athenry which I doubt 95% of the 3000 who reportedly signed the most recent petition will use - or cuts in your social welfare, public sector pay, and the introduction of rates.

The truth is the WRCNOA is now so far down the pecking order of national priorities it will inevitably be axed.....or some plattitudes about preserving the line etc until times get better etc will be spun out...

However, knowing this reality, I confidently predict we will see a steady stream of press releases from various bodies and organisations about how vital this trainline is and interlinked stories over the next two months. I presume that WOT are busy writing the back up news release to the news from the WDC published last week - to keep the whole WRCNOA in the public eye - they are masters of managing the media in the west - I await to see the next "story" in the western people - West on Track states how the Western Development Council data further supports the case for the WRCNOA and how everyone living in Dublin 4 is plotting against them,. and hwo this vital piece of infrastructure must go ahead....... think you know the jist of what they usually say. The people of the west cannot be ignored any longer etc (yeh right look at the Sligo Cancer facility campaign!!)

This way they make the myth become a seeming reality.

Of course, as we all know - it won't happen - cos we are broke and in truth its not needed - but another book needs to be written on that one!

Now lets look at that piece from the Western Development Council and the line that says:

“There is significant congestion on the current primary road network into Galway city, particularly the N17 and N18, suggesting latent demand for commuter rail services,”

This sentence belies credibility - Surely what these people in their cars want going to places like Balybrit to work is an improved N17/18 and a bypass of Claregalway; wake up, these people are not going to get out of the comfort of their cars for second rate commuter train service. they might use a better bus service if it actually took them to where they want to go, and was flexible and ran on time and had later night services - but they are not all heading for five minutes walking distance of Eyre Square and they all want the flexibility of their cars to get home at night. The latent demand for commuter rail service does not exist! Get the buses in order for a fraction of the cost and you will solve the public transport issues in Galway and routes into Galway

Jim Martin

Aidan1 wrote: »

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CityDevelopmentBoard/ProjectsandSchemes/GalwayCityAtlas20082009/

Sorry, meant to put this in earlier. It's a link to the recent Galway City Development Board 'Galway City Atlas 2008-2009'. Some interesting figures and maps in there. The basic problem faced by planners is clear - the fact that very large numbers of people live in recently constructed housing in regions without access to public transport, and separated from the main industrial/employment locations by substandard roads, themselves characterised by plentiful chokepoints.

"The basic problems faced by planners........" - I like that, the planners are the ones who created the problems in the first place!

westtip

Jim Martin wrote: »

"The basic problems faced by planners........" - I like that, the planners are the ones who created the problems in the first place!

They conveniently forget that tho!

Nostradamus

DWCommuter wrote: »

Ah Im sorry. Time to roll it out again.:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Nd6R19od4

Says shut down due to copyright claim by West on Track.

Fair enough I guess. Which reminds me did WestonTrack pay royalities to Johnny Cash's music publishers when they released their own version of I Walk the Line?

I am sure they did. I mean, I am only pointing this issue in the same spirit of copyright protection which WestonTrack hold so dear to their pious hearts.

I am sure they would not have denied Mr Cash his "pound of flesh" when they used his song.

http://www.westontrack.com/news46.htm
West=On=Track - News

West on Track launches Song and Calendar

Press Release
December 8th 2003

The West on Track community campaign has issued a special campaign song entitled "We Want that Line". The song, which is based on the Johnny Cash classic "I Walk the Line", was written by Frank Charlton, a native of Kiltimagh now resident in Manulla, and is sung by Frank McCaffrey, one of Ireland's best-known country artists.
The song, which was recorded recently in Greenfields Studios, Headford, has been distributed to all local radio stations in the West of Ireland as a means of attracting continued support for the campaign to re-open the Western Rail Corridor.
A spokesman for West on Track paid tribute to both Frank McCaffrey and Frank Charlton for giving their services free to the community campaign.
The Campaign has also launched a full colour souvenir calendar of the Western Rail Corridor, featuring towns and stations all along the route in its heyday. These are available in all good newsagents and bookshops

I am sure they did pay the music royalities. Good for them. See, this is why it's a good idea to have a priest at the top. Keeps one free from double standards and so on.

That's what I have always admired about WestonTrack. Their sheer integrity.

westtip

Nostradamus wrote: »

You can just smell the fear.

Nosty as you put it so well back in August - now they are reverting to the tactics Derek has so oftern referred to before. They won't accept debate and they hate rational debate against the cause that comes from those of us based in the west; they cut out any criticism of the cause on their own You-tube site - despite inviting comments, and now they do this - they claim to be "democratic" yet won't enter any debate... WOT more can any of us say about this cult like movement.

DWCommuter

Nostradamus wrote: »

Says shut down due to copyright claim by West on Track.

Fair enough I guess. Which reminds me did WestonTrack pay royalities to Johnny Cash's music publishers when they released their own version of I Walk the Line?

I am sure they did. I mean, I am only pointing this issue in the same spirit of copyright protection which WestonTrack hold so dear to their pious hearts.

I am sure they would not have denied Mr Cash his "pound of flesh" when they used his song.



I am sure they did pay the music royalities. Good for them. See, this is why it's a good idea to have a priest at the top. Keeps one free from double standards and so on.

That's what I have always admired about WestonTrack. Their sheer integrity.

Ha ha!

I bet if the video had used the same footage in a positive manner, they'd have no complaint with it.

DWCommuter

westtip wrote: »

WOT more can any of us say about this cult like movement.

Don't tempt me!:D

dermo88

Please Derek. DO....go ahead.

By all means.

Just so those twats who kicked me off for questioning the viability of two freight trains a week face the harsh light of reality. But this on my part is becoming symptomatic of a problem. There is no point in becoming as obsessed with this as those who advocate it. I think the current financial climate will starve them of the oxygen they need.

To the tune of "Joseph and the Technicolour Dreamcoat"

The branchlines gone.
The cutbacks coming (ohahah)
The Dubs are fuming
In traffic jams.
Out in the East.
They are still waiting.
Hesitating.
Not enough track laid.

And in Navan.
And Midleton (ohahahah)
They were waiting.
More than 30 years.
Dempsey is waiting.
Hesitating.
No track is laid.

A flash of drums, a crash ISEQ, the golden circle, runs out of sight.
Euro fading into darkness, Transport 21 is gone.

May we return.
To the beginning.
We are simmering.
Any dream will do.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
As we return "To the beginning" I would like to bring your attention to the first pages of the thread, back in 2004.

Page 1 to 4 of the thread feature a pro WRC approach overall. Then in April 2004, something revolutionary happened:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=141318&page=3

P11 Comms states:

"Platform11 has withdrawn its support for the reopening of the entire Western Rail Corridor in favour of what we believe are more intelligent and deserving schemes around the country including Interconnector, Metro, Athlone-Mullingar, Dublin-Navan and Cork-Midleton. There is a heated and interesting exchange on our message board if any body would be interesting in coming over and adding their two cents.

cheers:
www.platform11.org

Ishmael Whale then states:

"Platform 11 are to be congratulated on their responsible approach to the WRC. Too many lobby groups just blindly advocate any and all positions connected to their cause, however impractical. Clearly rail development should take place on the basis of where we see the greatest need"

Eurorunner, who I suspect is Alan Helfner from that renowned suburb of Galway known as "New Jersey" (10th November 2004)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=141318&page=6

"No. What i am telling you is that there is a great opportunity here to provide an alternative infrastructure interconnecting the important regional cities of Limerick, Galway and Sligo. An alternative infrastructure that has the potential to link up two international airports along the way - and as a secondary consequence, if it benefits places like Tubbercurry, then all the better"

P11 Comms

I live in Tubbercurry and 12 people a day take the Sligo to Galway bus

Of course, these are just a few of many quotes on this.

Since then, not much has changed. But one revolutionary move was - by deciding NOT to support the WRC, Platform11 ensured it was taken seriously by Iarnrod Eireann and the Government for the first time ever. Prior to that, the support of rail transport was seen as being the view of anoraks with thermos flasks and notebooks.

Nostradamus

dermo88 wrote: »

P11 Comms states:

"Platform11 has withdrawn its support for the reopening of the entire Western Rail Corridor in favour of what we believe are more intelligent and deserving schemes around the country including Interconnector, Metro, Athlone-Mullingar, Dublin-Navan and Cork-Midleton. There is a heated and interesting exchange on our message board if any body would be interesting in coming over and adding their two cents.

cheers:
www.platform11.org

If P11 Comms was alive today he would tell us to vote NO to Lisbon II.

We should honour his memory. He was a true patriot, a visionary and a serial womaniser.

Nostradamus

Might as well close the thread now.

westtip

Nosty sure that photo must be copywrite!

Sponge Bob

westtip wrote: »

Sure that photo must be copyright!

Luckily Noel Dempseys speeches are not , someone has even composed :cool: a song :cool: about Noels tireless and principled efforts to open the Navan Rail Line since he first promised it back in the 1990's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxrd_jZJxkg

DWCommuter

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Luckily Noel Dempseys speeches are not , someone has even composed :cool: a song :cool: about Noels tireless and principled efforts to open the Navan Rail Line since he first promised it back in the 1990's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxrd_jZJxkg

Lol! Nice one alright Sponge. Reminded me to check in on that youtube page and I see your man has shot one across the bow of WOT after their copyright complaint. I reckon this is gonna get real ugly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1bzLCIV54U

Nostradamus

DWCommuter wrote: »

Lol! Nice one alright Sponge. Reminded me to check in on that youtube page and I see your man has shot one across the bow of WOT after their copyright complaint. I reckon this is gonna get real ugly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh_2JCIspMA

Oh yes!

You plagerising bollox. You own me a free promo video for that.

DWCommuter

Nostradamus wrote: »

Oh yes!

You plagerising bollox. You own me a free promo video for that.

Wasn't me. Nothing to do with it. But respect to the artist who created it in an effort to defend themselves.

They obviously tapped into your sharp wit on this forum and used it accordingly.:D

SeanW

This video has been removed by the user.

Could someone tell me what the video DWCommuter posted was about?

Sponge Bob

SeanW wrote: »

Could someone tell me what the video DWCommuter posted was about?

It was a rather oblique reference to a song called Waiting Room by a band named Fugazi

Bang that head

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTWSSCYUD4E