Western Rail Corridor

DWCommuter

SeanW wrote: »

Could someone tell me what the video DWCommuter posted was about?

It was a piss take movie trailer about the WRC. Apparently WOT owned the copyright to some of the material used by the makers of the video. They lodged a complaint with youtube and the video was taken down.

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

They lodged a complaint with youtube and the video was taken down.

Because they can't stand anyone challenging their view and won't enter into public debate about the WRC with anyone who challenges them, they have no sense of humour - however the other sides voice is being heard..... and they don't like it.

BTW they have their own You tube site but don't try and post a comment about any of their ridiculos home movies which they supposedly invite people to do; anything negative about the WRC or challenging their holy view gets removed. They profess to believe in democracy but their kind of democracy only allows one view - theirs - and they don't like being challenged or being ridiculed, trouble is they actually have become such a parody of themselves they fuel their own fire.... and they do the west of Ireland a disservice by destroying the credibility of the region with rather pathetic arguments about their toy railway, which quite simply don't stand up to any form of analysis......

DWCommuter

With the WRC all but dead and buried amid a wrecked economy, I think the focus should shift to WOT and their cowardly, one track:D, propaganda, horse and cart.

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

I think the focus should shift to WOT and their cowardly, one track:D, propaganda, horse and cart.

Derek its not worth it, they will destroy themselves, nobody in the west gives a tuppeny F**k about them or their railway there are only a handful of people going to use it anyway - sure people accosted in the street will sign their petitions, and the weak politicians - who are out of touch with real people will bandwagon their cause - cos they can get their name mentioned in the Western People every time they issue a statement of support or can be seen rubbing shoulders with the Minister at any of their religous rallys to the cause. It quite simply is not a big issue in the west despite all the words written and press releases published - really as mentioned above its just not an issue out here to merit any real consideration. WRCNOA RIP

Unless the Greens get there way ..... Can this country be held to ransom by these idiots: I mean if the Greens end up as the White Knights for West on Track we all need to leave and turn the lights out on the way out....to paraphrase the Sun in the early 90s.


The Irish times has printed some of the contents of the greens initial demands in their negotiations with Fianna Fáil.

Irish Times wrote:

Originally Posted by Irish Times
Transport policy is another key area for the Greens and the party wants to see a reversal of the current ratio of investment in public transport by comparison with roads, with 94 road projects at the design or earlier stages being scrapped. The Atlantic road corridor and the eastern bypass plans would be dropped, while the western rail project would be extended.

If WOT now have to rely on the Greens to get this mad cap scheme back on track my god where is this country going!!!

glineli

I have heard a few rumours of a stop being added at Crusheen? is this true?

highlydebased

glineli wrote: »

I have heard a few rumours of a stop being added at Crusheen? is this true?

I remember reading about it further back in this thread. Some TD wrote to IE or something...

Nostradamus

westtip wrote: »

If WOT now have to rely on the Greens to get this mad cap scheme back on track my god where is this country going!!!

Isn't it ironic to the point where even irony fails that for all their "Dublin 4 types" rethoric from WestonTrack that their only hope left now are the "Dublin 4 types" who are the backbone of the Green Party.

westtip

Nostradamus wrote: »

Isn't it ironic to the point where even irony fails that for all their "Dublin 4 types" rethoric from WestonTrack that their only hope left now are the "Dublin 4 types" who are the backbone of the Green Party.

Exactly Nosty. Only in Ireland could this happen.

Zoney

Instead of fighting WOT, people should drown them out with noise for other more worthy projects than North of Athenry (and north of Tuam in particular). I've always said that it makes no sense for a rail lobby group for example to expend effort opposing a project (it's entirely reasonable for them not to support certain projects). Every effort spent doing so is effort not put into advocating other projects. I still believe there was *never* the remotest threat of north of Tuam coming to pass, or even anytime soon, Athenry-Tuam.

People could even steal the pro-West thunder by campaigning for more sensible use of Ennis-Athenry than what seems planned, or an upgrade of Athenry-Galway (probably more of a priority).

Even the West-by-Bus theory wasn't that bad although I think the rationale for starting it, i.e. alternative to WRC, would too easily descend into anti-WRC rather than pro-improvement of even existing bus services.

dermo88

Zoney, thats what people have been trying to do all along.

Zoney

Then why is this thread 173 pages long and threads on other rail projects are not as prominent with as many posts?

dermo88

Several reasons, and these are my personal views.

1. I quote from September 2004 - and in your words on Irishrailwaynews "Dublin is an abberation that needs to be tamed"
2. Truly viable projects get a thread that lasts 40 or 50 posts at best on Irishrailwaynews, before its seen as being rational and boring. Its pretty clear whats required in Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick.
3. The detractors (at this stage) are becoming as crazy as the advocates, but thats because of the requirement to fight fire with fire.

I'll expand on it later, I have'nt the time right now. Thanks.

Judgement Day

Dermo88 and Zoney you both have a problem and need to get a life off the boards. You should have been down the pub like yours truly watching Munster being ripped apart by Leinster in the Magners league and then you would really have something 'important' to complain about! The WRC and IE are worth ranting about but Rugby and Guinness are the stuff of life.

corktina

Playing sport I can understand but WATCHING it? odd...(and Guninness is rubbish too, try some of the real beers out there...

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dermo88 and Zoney you both have a problem and need to get a life off the boards. You should have been down the pub like yours truly watching Munster being ripped apart by Leinster in the Magners league and then you would really have something 'important' to complain about! The WRC and IE are worth ranting about but Rugby and Guinness are the stuff of life.

Exactly JD I always find my more creative posts are after about seven pints of porter....I couldn't quite believe the thrashing Munster got tonight - no doubt the old WRC was much debated in the bars after...

dermo88

I was just back from the pub when I typed that, and that was at 2:45am or thereabouts. Nevertheless, thanks for the advice, and I'll get a better life.

Its not a bad life, I'd hardly be taking Bertie Aherns advice, and I would not recommend anyone else does either, except for Bertie himself.

My more creative posts after Guinness, Tiger, and in particular Jack Daniels can be lethal.

westtip

corktina wrote: »

Playing sport I can understand but WATCHING it? odd...(and Guninness is rubbish too, try some of the real beers out there...

watching sport is the new religion and new opium of the people (or at least men) - Yes Corky it is an odd pasttime - something which I am finally getting utterly bored with largely due to the saturation of the airwaves (in the pub anyway), which results in it becoming like wallpaper and having a dulling effect on our lives - ie the opium effect. Re Guinness being rubbish - well the stranglehold of distribution of draught beers in Ireland by this company and Heineken has meant consumers have not got any choice in tap beers, again all part of the dumbing down process, perhaps what we need is a return to Authenticity

Now on this Sunday morning I am trying to find a link to the WRC with this thought process; and I'm struggling, but here goes:

Perhaps the advocates of the WRC actually have a point - the desire to having a slow trundling rail line run through the west of Ireland is in fact a desire for a return to authenticity, a life in which Mammies stay at home and bake bread, take the children to school, collect them, do the washing etc - you get the picture and Daddy goes off and earns the corn. He will of course travel to work everyday by Train from Tuam or Claremorris. For their holidays they will all get on the train to Athenry change for Dublin and take the train to Bray where they will spend a week in adecrepit guest house and then off home again - satisfied with their lot.

Of course in reality this is a dual income family - with the mother maybe working in the public sector in a government office that is nowhere near a rail line and the only way to get to work is by car. The father who is now on a three day week works in Balybrit, workign in software developemtn and struggles through Claregalway everyday as the car is the only way to get to his out of town office park which again is nowhere near a rail line - it costs him 50 euro a week to keep his car on the road and he certainly will not be using the train to get to work at an additional cost of 60 euro a week and complete and utter lack of flexibility in timing. The family of course use their car to do the weekly shop, to take the kids to GAA training, football training, school, and to friends houses to play - as the family actually live in a one off house and the kids need to be taken to their mates to play for the day, or to nip up to see one of their aged parents who live locally but about three miles away and the last bus to pass the house was in 1959. The other set of grandparents lives just south of Gort in a family homestead.

However the WRC will of course completely change their lives - Well at least it will slow them down a bit - as the numerous railway crossings over the creaking old N17, will mean even more traffic chaos on this arterial route, which the family use all the time, because the Greens have decided to keep FF in power this road will now not be upgraded. However they can of course visit the set of grandparents south of Gort each weekend - as a Family it will cost them about 30 euro return on the train from Tuam to Gort and then a 40 euro return taxi fare from Gort station to the family home - of course they will be delighted with this chance to extend the journey time by two hours compared to driving to see the old grand parents, in about an hour. Oh and of course to leave their two cars at home on the drive (or maybe use one to drive to Tuam station on a Saturday morning), and the total cost of the journey will have gone from about 15 Euro for the round trip to about 70 euro.

The family just love this return to authenticity which makes their lives just so much easier to live.....ahem

And to return to the beginning of this post - well perhaps those homogonised beer companies will start putting bottle conditioned ales back in wooden cases - and have them delivered by trains to each of the bottling yards in Gort, athenry, Tuam, Claremorris, Kilitmagh for delivery by a fleet of local delivery men to each of the dwindling numbr of rural pubs.....

You see economics aside, when you examine our society and take a sociological look at the way we now live, there will be no return to authencity because what is authentic is actually what is now - the way we live, the way we consume the way we structure our chaotic lives, that is todays authenticity - and to come back on thread - one of the key issues in arguing against the WRC is you cannot move the clock back, because the lifestyles we now have in the west of Ireland the WRC is quite simply not going to be used to the extent that WOT dream of. Just thought I would throw a different light on it today instead of all the usual arguments about critical mass economics, bus lanes, where's the money coming from etc.

There is no more Dancing at the cross roads.

dermo88

Perhaps this needs to be locked, and a new thread created on the topic. What needs to be said has been said. If most of us have created a dossier on what we typed on various issues over the years, including this one, it would be much easier to go back and say "This was written by X in 200Y, here is the link, heres what was said then, here was the reality then and here is what we have now"

westtip, what you wrote just there was one of the best comments of the year in my opinion. Respect....thats all I can say.

corktina

dermo88 wrote: »

westtip, what you wrote just there was one of the best comments of the year in my opinion. Respect....thats all I can say.

+1... the only way to get people on to public transport is to make it more attractive than the cars they are already paying for....westtip summed up my travelling requirements to a T...I'm not going to use the train when the car is a quicker cheaper paid for alternative. Twice this summer we sent my son to Dublin by car to collect various sisters as the petrol was cheaper than the train.

Victor

dermo88 wrote: »

Perhaps this needs to be locked, and a new thread created on the topic.

First scheduled, fare-paying train Galway-Limerick (direct or not), I'll close the thread.

dermo88

Put it this way. In December 1983, my Fathers car was stolen. That year, my parents and I travelled using the train to Wexford. It cost 30 Pounds return for 3 people at Christmas. It was 3rd world transport charging First world prices with a premium. We ended up in the guards van due to overcrowding. It might have been exciting for a 7 year old kid, but it was hardly pleasant, and it was certainly reflective of the epithet Ireland ended up with on the front page of the Economist in 1987. "The Poorest of the Rich"

August Bank Holiday weekend, 1995, a 13 coach rake of Mark 2's, and a bunch of us on the way to Galway, in yet another train, packed to the rafters with holiday makers in functional, but dated looking rolling stock, paying 24 Pounds return, which was not cheap back then.

These are the memories of CIE and Irish Rail for the majority of its users. They will take generations to remove. I learned that one disatissfied consumer is worth ten content users. The moment the kids have a chance, they are straight off buying cars, and who can blame them.

The loss of the bridge at Malahide is, and mark my words, I shall link this for future reference, it marks the end of InterCity rail as we know it. This is because the buses, subsituted now do a faster job, for less, at greater comfort.

Were I to state this on IRN, I would be marked as another Todd Andrews, a Richard Beeching or an Arthur Algeo. I am merely being pragmatic, but having seen InterCity transport in the developing world, their passenger trains have no hope against Express buses. Whats more, the people there agreed, based on their resources. They do want High Speed trains, but do realise that their economic base does not justify it. Ireland is in that half way house as we write, and as time goes on, it will become blatantly clear that a lot of it won't be sustainable

Ireland is not a purely developed nation. It demands Scandinavian services with a Southern European attitude, Catholic Irish corruption. Stating this unfortunate fact leads to epithets such as "West Brit". So granted, this makes me appear like an unbalanced emmigrant with a chip on both shoulders, or worse, an even more arrogant version of Kevin Myers.

Well, at least the Brits send their corrupt boys to jail, such as Jeffrey Archer. At least theirs resign. They actually learn from their mistakes.

I am ashamed, saddened, deeply hurt and embarrassed to state that the world will gladly take our Kennedys, while we accept illegitimate Cuban rejects of like De Valera.

Does Rail transport have a long term future, with the prices it charges?

With its cost base?

Serious questions need to be asked.

As a former ardent supporter of rail based transportation in Ireland, I now ask if it is possible.

Is it a glorified social employment scheme?

Can it work?

It can, but I think some form of privatisation is the only way it can be done. If Iarnrod Eireann do not want to do it right, a private operator could do it wrong. Frankly, change is whats required.

Iarnrod Eireann on InterCity have done the best they can within their restricted unionised politically imposed parameters.

There is a better way, and we must realise that no amount of nonsense written by myself and others can cause that.

Frankly, I wish I knew how.

Tiger Beer claims no responsibility for what incoherent nonsense I write. Thank you. Its my fault now. Do not ban me.

westtip

Victor wrote: »

First scheduled, fare-paying train Galway-Limerick (direct or not), I'll close the thread.

Victor why this thread is legendary - and the fun will only start when the scheduled trains start running sure we will get another year out of this thread reporting the volumes of numbers using the dam service etc and there is still the whole debate about WRCNOA - which is now the main part of the debate on this thread, put it to a vote of those writing on the thread - should it stay or should it go - in fact if it closes you might be faced with a campaign with widespread support in the west "West on Thread" Why the Western Rail Corridor Thread must remain open on Boards.ie.......

serfboard

dermo88 wrote: »

The loss of the bridge at Malahide is, and mark my words, I shall link this for future reference, it marks the end of InterCity rail as we know it. This is because the buses, subsituted now do a faster job, for less, at greater comfort.

<snip> ... having seen InterCity transport in the developing world, their passenger trains have no hope against Express buses. Whats more, the people there agreed, based on their resources. They do want High Speed trains, but do realise that their economic base does not justify it. Ireland is in that half way house as we write, and as time goes on, it will become blatantly clear that a lot of it won't be sustainable

Does Rail transport have a long term future, with the prices it charges?

With its cost base?

Serious questions need to be asked.

As a former ardent supporter of rail based transportation in Ireland, I now ask if it is possible.

Is it a glorified social employment scheme?

Can it work?

Fast forward to 2010/11. The Inter-Urbans have been completed (including the Newry Bypass) and Citylink/GoBus/AirCoach have been granted licences to run both Non-Stop and Multi-Stop services along the newly completed motorways.

Chris Andrews, grandson of Todd, is appointed Minister of Transport with a brief to review spending. Looking at the dwindling numbers using InterCity Rail and the massive cost, he takes the decision to close all bar the following:

1. Commuter services around Dublin and Cork.
2. InterCity, Dublin-Cork and Dublin->Belfast.

Everything else gets canned.

corktina

One has to wonder if , without the econmies of scale of the whole network, even those routes would be safe.

westtip

skelliser wrote: »

http://www.galwayindependent.com/letters/letters/potential-for-irish-railways-is-huge-/

Good god someone in the west has been writing to this west based newspaper against the WRC, WOT will be having apoplexy!!

http://www.galwayindependent.com/letters/letters/wrc-not-a-great-priority-/

tut tut.

Judgement Day

westtip wrote: »

Good god someone in the west has been writing to this west based newspaper against the WRC, WOT will be having apoplexy!!

http://www.galwayindependent.com/letters/letters/wrc-not-a-great-priority-/

tut tut.

Westtip the link isn't working .....WOT at work? Anyway I read the earlier anti-WRC letter and apart from anything else I just love these people who totally generalise 'everyone I speak to doesn't place any importance on having the WRC reopened'... If there's anything worse than a WOT zealot it's an anti-WRC zealot! Anyway, do you think we can reach 3,000 postings on this thread before the reopening of Ennis/Athenry takes place?

DWCommuter

westtip wrote: »

Good god someone in the west has been writing to this west based newspaper against the WRC, WOT will be having apoplexy!!

http://www.galwayindependent.com/letters/letters/wrc-not-a-great-priority-/

tut tut.

I can almost here the little fingers of WOT hoodwinkers typing furiously on the keyboard in response. The priest may already be on the way to that guys house to perform an exorcism. (if he is, then I hope he vomits in his face and sticks the cruxifix up his......)

Nice to see the western media giving coverage to the "man on the street" view.

Judgement Day

Man on the street me hole! One of the Bord Snip/Dublin 4/Doheny & Nesbitt/Platform 11 brigade ....or may be even you Derek?

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

Man on the street me hole! One of the Bord Snip/Dublin 4/Doheny & Nesbitt/Platform 11 brigade ....or may be even you Derek?

Wasn't me.

Platform 11 only exists in the minds of the legends! Its Rail Users Ireland now. (Worst decision I ever made.) Long live the "11".

The west is alive! ALIVE I TELL YOU!

Sponge Bob

You know this is rather well written so it could not have come from any of the regulars in this thread except for me . I did not write it , however .

Very well done to Brendan Quinn whoever he may be

http://www.galwayindependent.com/letters/letters/wrc-not-a-great-priority-/

Dear Editor,

Now the debate about the Lisbon Treaty is over and done with, can we please debate issues about the what actually effects our lives. Three weeks ago, Niall O Brolchain, of West on Track (WOT), (Letters to the Editor, Wednesday 16 September) referred to many young people in Dublin being surprised there is no rail line linking Derry Sligo and Galway.

Anecdotally, everyone I ever speak to in the West places no importance on the need for the Western Rail Corridor project (WRC). In fact, apart from West on Track and local politicians jumping on the 'we must have it for the west' bandwagon, I don't know anyone who actually gives a damn about this project. Yes, many people have signed petitions, but it is not a major issue for many people in the West, the state of our roads is.

West on Track compares the WRC and services such as the DART and Luas. The WRC from Tuam to Gort via Galway will have seven stations; it is comparable in length to the DART from Malahide to Greystones serving 27 stations. The population served by each rail line is totally incomparable. The critical mass to sustain a commuter based rail service on the WRC does not exist.

The West, by nature of our dispersed population, is very dependent on road transport. The WRC will not change this dependency. The improvement of the N17/18 road is the key project to enable reliable timely express bus services, better supply chain management and, very importantly, to reduce loss of life. Parts of the N17/18 are death traps.

Niall O Brolchain states, 'It (WRC) will help alleviate Ireland's worst traffic bottleneck – Claregalway.' I doubt it. Ballybrit, the university and the hospital will not be serviced by the railway. All of these critical employment hubs are already serviced by buses. The reliability of buses into Galway from Tuam has been improved by bus lanes at Claregalway. Are drivers really sitting in traffic jams at Claregalway going to abandon their cars? They want a relief road and the N17 to be completed, just ask them.

The issue of public transport in the West needs addressing. For those living in isolated, one off houses or in small towns and villages, good rural bus schemes are key. Express bus services on good safe roads, combined with bus lanes into cities like Limerick and Galway, will meet inter city/town public transport needs.

If Bus Éireann would integrate bus and train timetables or even, for example, get buses on the N17 and N5 to call at Knock Airport this would also help.

Buses pass within five minutes of the terminal every day on the N17 and N5, which could link the airport directly with every town in the West and with Dublin.

Better managed bus services running on modern safe roads would serve the greater good for the greater number. The WRC will not do this.

We do need to debate the WRC in the West. This debate should include challenging the view of West on Track. This doesn't seem to be allowed by any of the media in the West. Local radio stations or local print media simply ignore the views of those of us who do not see the need for this project.
The WRC is quite simply not the great priority for transport planning in the region WOT would have us all believe. It is not going to deliver the holy grail of transport solutions and there are other ways of delivering transport solutions.

Brendan Quinn,
Enniscrone, County Sligo