Western Rail Corridor

Nostradamus

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I am uncomfortable with the general vitriol directed at Nigel / Tarquin / IRRS in general . It is racist on the scale that it reoccurs in this thread. :mad:

What about the British residents on IRN actively lobbying Irish public bodies on how we here in Ireland should spend our taxes? I for one find that to be little more than barely masked colonialism. All in all I would this sticks better than your own ala carte victimhood.

I am not aware of any Irish based railway interest groups which openly contacts UK govermental agencies and tells them to keep the rural lines in Cumbria open.

Do you see the difference here?

You seem to have missed the more crucial reality with your utterly pathetic racist jibe. Then again such tactics are always the method of last resort then all else fails.

Why don't you have the UN recognise trainspotters as a seperate ethnic group then.


YOU CAN TAKE AWAY OUR NOTEBOOKS...BUT YOU'LL NEVER TAKE AWAY OUR BOVRIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have nothing against trainsotters as long as they do not try to implement their hobby as transport policy and the Western Rail Corridor is nothing but that. If there were no such things as trainspotters there would of been no WRC. And if the Athenry-Ennis section had of reopened in time the curve would of been facing Galway. Some West on Track people insisted the line just be relaid as it was was in Percy French days because they wanted to take photos of locos running around beet trains.

Sponge Bob

Nostradamus wrote: »

What about the British residents on IRN actively lobbying Irish public bodies

Yeah , so . We tell them how to run their nuclear energy policy all the time and guess what , they ignore us .

I said it was racist on the scale that it reoccurs in this thread. As for trainspotters, they are allowed down one platform in London Bridge (near the Thameslink) and could be nicked by the transport plod in certain parts of the station

Make policy not war and all that , what what !!!

Nostradamus

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Yeah , so . We tell them how to run their nuclear energy policy all the time and guess what , they ignore us .

I said it was racist on the scale that it reoccurs in this thread. As for trainspotters, they are allowed down one platform in London Bridge (near the Thameslink) and could be nicked by the transport plod in certain parts of the station

Make policy not war and all that , what what !!!

What the hell are you on about.

corktina

surely very few trainspotters visit London Bridge station....even I would be bored by the bill of fare on offer there...

oh and I am British and a trainspotter (or was) and didnt notice any overtones that I took offence to....

I dont take any notice of IRN, i cant log in to the damn site anymore anyway, so I can only read what it says and its mostly innocuous stuff really.

dowlingm

Nostradamus wrote: »

And if the Athenry-Ennis section had of reopened in time the curve would of been facing Galway. Some West on Track people insisted the line just be relaid as it was was in Percy French days because they wanted to take photos of locos running around beet trains.

Well... if the WRC track was to be bent towards Galway it shouldn't stop in Athenry at all but in Oranmore. Of course, that station, despite being a damn site more necessary than one in Ard-bloody-rahan, didn't get built yet, did it.

Ardrahan-Athenry-Galway: 45km
Ardrahan-Oranmore-Galway (N18): 26km

The only way running trains from Ennis-Galway via Athenry makes sense is PaleRail, and the schedulers put paid to that.

westtip

OK my views are well known on this subject so let me ask a simple question - if you are a supporter of WRC or couldn't give a toss one way or the other - If push came to shove would you actually use the service we think IE are going to give users or not:

Remember what was said by the MOT in May about usage having an impact on any future commitments to expand further north of Athenry - just to remind you Noel Dempsey May 1st

"Iarnród Éireann is planning to conduct further studies in 2009 to ascertain more reliable costings for Phases 2 and 3. I understand that they will also be looking at usage of Phase 1 after its opening, and at its effect on overall patronage of public transport in the area." Translated from non political bullsh*t this meands "use it or lose it"

So here is the big question - who out there will actually be using this service based on the timetables that have been posted? reproduced below: Be honest folks and maybe you could indicate how often (Daily, once a week, weekend trips to go home)

Now so far I have seen no pricing for this line but its 9.50 one way from Limerick to Ennis - lets say it will be 14 euro for a one way ticket Galway/Limierick 28 return, based on pure guesswork. Base the price of an Ennis - Galway ticket on the same as Ennis/Limerick.

The Athenry /Galway price now is 11.00 euro return, lets guess that stations from Gort, Ardrahan, Craughwell to Galway will be about 15 euro return, Ennis Galway 19 euro return and as mentioned Galway/Limerick 28 euro return.

At these kind of prices is it a runner? Will you actually use it? Because this is actually going to be the acid test. Who out there is prepared and ready to use the service that has been envisaged at the prices we can intelligently guess at?

Maybe you could indicate how much you would be prepared to pay for this service? Be as honest and realistic as you can.

From Limerick: By the way read down (ie the 0.600 gets into Galway at 08.25 not 18.05 - ok sorry joking),
Limerick 06:00 09:35 11:55 14:15 18:05
Sixmilebridge 06:21 09:56 12:16 14:36 18:26
Ennis 06:40 10:14 12:34 14:54 18:44
Athenry 08:08 11:19 13:35 15:56 19:45
Galway 08:25 11:34 13:51 16:13 20:00

From Galway:

Galway 06:40 09:45 12:10 14:30 17:25
Athenry 06:56 10:03 12:26 14:46 17:41
Ennis 08:00 11:08 13:28 15:48 18:44
Sixmilbridge 08:17 11:26 13:46 16:06 19:01
Limerick 08:39 11:48 14:08 16:28 19:24

These are all Monday->Saturday times. so lets hear from you folks - and this is not about people saying I can't wait to use it for one day trip and thats it, or it will take time and it will need marketing - come on we all know it has been going to come so lets here from those who genuinley are waiting to use this service for regular usage - thats what I am wondering about?

Sponge Bob

I am not going to use it because I would be creamed for parking in Galway and would rather take my chances on parking in Limerick instead . Special railway parking rates in Galway are for Dublin Return tickets only , otherwise I gotta pay €2.50 an hour

Thanks Sponge Bob for making distinctions between opposing the WRC properly as opposed to Nostro's (&, looking back, J Day's) distractions. Anyways, I've more to post, but i'm on mobile web, so it has to be short or multiple posts...

... Anyways, to answer, on a personal level I know at least 20 people who will use the service to go to college in UL or LIT, and I reckon that along the lines from Galway to Clara, even possibly Tullamore, students will take the train.

...as well as that, there would be those willing to take train over bus simply because they get a table to open the lappy and do some work on it.
Businesses between Athlone and Limerick would benefit.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

... Anyways, to answer, on a personal level I know at least 20 people who will use the service to go to college in UL or LIT, and I reckon that along the lines from Galway to Clara, even possibly Tullamore, students will take the train.

SS thank you for answering my question but really your response is too full of generalities - be specific:

Instead of I know at least 20 people how about

5 will use the service everyday from Gort to Limerick

15 from craughwell to Limerick

If any of the 20 you mention already could make it in the morning to Ennis - to use the Ennis-Limerick service then are they using that service now?

If not why not - and remember any additional passengers getting the Ennis-Limerick service are nothing to do with the additional line north of Ennis - Ennis-Limerick is in operation - could any of the 20 mates you have use that service now?? to get to UL or LIT? If not why not?

I take it from your posts that your personal issue is getting into Limerick from somewhere north of Ennis?

Are students in great numbers really commuting from Clara or Tullamor to Galway - My god what is the point in going to University if you have such a horrendous commute. Going to Uni is about more than studying its about learning a new way of life..

On your second post about the line improving business between Limerick and Athlone I just don't gettit, I would suggest to improve business in Athlone with Railway infrastructure the two issues are:

1) Very high speed train - Dublin -Athlone - Galway (not going to happen)

2) re-open Athlone Mullingar - unlikely to happen due to position of Athlone railway station.

Athlone - Limerick whilst they will be connected via the WRC through Athenry is not I believe of major importance to either town/city but you think differently.

Well, the people i know drive via Portumna, and my supposition is that the students along the line would use the service to get home when they can, at weekends etc
, much like what NUIG and GMIT students from close to the Gal-Dub line do now.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, the people i know drive via Portumna, and my supposition is that the students would ure the service to get home when they can, at weekends etc
. (More to come)

SS I know you will take some convincing and I can see the reason why you would like to see the WRC open, for weekend use, but can't you begin to see the reason for all the discussion of a macro-economic and political debate on this thread that drives you crazy., and by the way the 20 people you know who would use the line has now become a supposition.....

We simply can't re-open rail lines in the hope that maybe 20 or 30 students will use one train on a Friday afternoon and one train back on Sunday night. Think about it - and then perhaps understand why so many of us - even those of us living in the west see the distraction the WRC has caused for real transport planning out here. Railways generally lose money - which is fine as long as they are fulfilling a real need as a MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM, moving lots of people. I know you hate the politics of this thread but just think about it will the WRC be a MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM and could the money spent on subventing and indeed re-opening the line be put to better transport use in the west.

In the meantime anyone else been thinking whether they or indeed friends and relatives will actually use the new line from Ennis to Athenry.

Oi! The -supposition- is that Ballinasloe isn't the only station that would get UL/LIT student traffic in addition to the NUIG/GMIT traffic (and additional AIT traffic, come to think of it). And you're stating your opinion as fact.

Well, my attitude is the money's spent, and whinging on a bulletin board won't get a penny of it back. let's get some good use from what we now have, instead of whining about what we don't.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, my attitude is the money's spent, and whinging on a bulletin board won't get a penny of it back. let's get some good use from what we now have, instead of whining about what we don't.

Tis a fair point but are you and your student friends going to get good use from the line with the service being offered. If the trains are packed everyday I will take my cap off and bow down to WOT and say you were right and all of us begrudgers were wrong, in truth I don't think we are going to see standing in the corridors... I hope me Nosty, Corky, Serfboard, Sponge, JD, DW, and all the others are proven wrong, because despite what you say about us being anti-rail I don't believe we are. We are just anti waste.

Me and my student friends? You sound like a cartoon villain Anyways, you can include Limerick workers, shoppers, relatives, and those heading for Cork to the list of people you would class as my "friends"! As far as waste goes, no 1'll no till it goes.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

Me and my student friends? You sound like a cartoon villain .

I see like me you are also capable of writing complete bollox, I simply don't understand this comment!!! It did however make me smile on this very wet morning, I had made an assumption from your posts that you were in fact a student...and if you are you would have student friends - it was not meant to desribe you as a stereotype although I can see how it could be read as so.

Anyway as you say, no one will know till it goes - kind of saying we will see what happens - but seeing what happens is a strange way of planning infrastructure:

"Sure we will build a railway from here to here - and see what happens, someone is bound to use it"

KC61

I've yet to properly go through the new timetables, but I can explain one matter very simply.

The section from Limerick to Ennis is 40 minutes long with no split signal or passing loop anywhere along the route. This puts a serious constraint on the ability to operate any sort of meaningful timetable (and I am saying this purely from an operational perspective) on the Limerick/Ennis/Galway route as no train can leave Limerick or Ennis for 40 minutes once one train is en route.

The 0600 service from Limerick to Galway will arrive at Ennis at 0640. One portion will then return at 0645 to Limerick to provide a connection into the 0735 Limerick-Dublin. The other then waits until 0705 before continuing to Galway, passing the 0640 Galway-Limerick service at Gort, the latter then forming the 0800 Ennis-Limerick service.

That is why it is scheduled to take 2 hours 25 minutes from Limerick to Galway. It really is designed as an Ennis-Galway service.

Now a loop (or at the very least an intermediate signal - permitting two trains to run in the same direction, one Ennis/Sixmilebridge and the other Sixmilebridge/Limerick) at Sixmilebridge would make the ability to schedule the route far easier. That I believe is due to happen as part of the Limerick resignalling project, but that is currently on hold.

Sponge Bob

A Passing loop is also required in Oranmore along with a station . One was installed in recent years between Clara and Athlone to deal with long waits/delays in Clara and Athlone but they are best installed in stations where possible.

Nostradamus

Deleted User wrote: »

Businesses between Athlone and Limerick would benefit.

No the Special Response Unit have a fleet of mini-buses.

Nostradamus

KC61 wrote: »

I've yet to properly go through the new timetables, but I can explain one matter very simply.

The section from Limerick to Ennis is 40 minutes long with no split signal or passing loop anywhere along the route. This puts a serious constraint on the ability to operate any sort of meaningful timetable (and I am saying this purely from an operational perspective) on the Limerick/Ennis/Galway route as no train can leave Limerick or Ennis for 40 minutes once one train is en route.

The 0600 service from Limerick to Galway will arrive at Ennis at 0640. One portion will then return at 0645 to Limerick to provide a connection into the 0735 Limerick-Dublin. The other then waits until 0705 before continuing to Galway, passing the 0625 Galway-Limerick service at Gort, the latter then forming the 0800 Ennis-Limerick service.

That is why it is scheduled to take 2 hours 25 minutes from Limerick to Galway. It really is designed as an Ennis-Galway service.

Now a loop (or at the very least an intermediate signal - permitting two trains to run in the same direction, one Ennis/Sixmilebridge and the other Sixmilebridge/Limerick) at Sixmilebridge would make the ability to schedule the route far easier. That I believe is due to happen as part of the Limerick resignalling project, but that is currently on hold.

Reading this article this morning all I could think about was the WRC for some reason...

Kouri, who's a vice president of the National Assn. of Chiefs of Police, has assembled traits such as superficial charm, an exaggerated sense of self-worth, glibness, lying, lack of remorse and manipulation of others.
These traits, Kouri points out in his analysis, are common to psychopathic serial killers.
But -- and here's the part that may spark some controversy and defensive discussion -- these traits are also common to politicians.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/06/politicians-and-serial-killers.html

KC61

Sponge Bob wrote: »

A Passing loop is also required in Oranmore along with a station . One was installed in recent years between Clara and Athlone to deal with long waits/delays in Clara and Athlone but they are best installed in stations where possible.

I believe an intermediate signal has been installed in the Athenry/Galway section which at least means that two trains going in the same direction can enter the section without waiting for 13/15 minutes.

Sponge Bob

Nostradamus wrote: »

Reading this article this morning all I could think about was the WRC for some reason...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/06/politicians-and-serial-killers.html

Reading that kind of stuff in the morning used to keep me regular ND , now I simply read Comreg reports on Irelands Very Advanced Broadband Services and Networks instead

westtip

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Reading that kind of stuff in the morning used to keep me regular ND , now I simply read Comreg reports on Irelands Very Advanced Broadband Services and Networks instead

How could anyone want to see this thread closed down after that brilliant exchange between you and Nosty. I am trying to work here and I am crying in laughter. Thanks lads.

Victor

Nostradamus wrote: »

Reading this article this morning all I could think about was the WRC for some reason...

Kouri, who's a vice president of the National Assn. of Chiefs of Police, has assembled traits such as superficial charm, an exaggerated sense of self-worth, glibness, lying, lack of remorse and manipulation of others.
These traits, Kouri points out in his analysis, are common to psychopathic serial killers.
But -- and here's the part that may spark some controversy and defensive discussion -- these traits are also common to politicians.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/06/politicians-and-serial-killers.html

I'm not sure why you quoted KC61, but the link between sociopathy / psychopathy and criminals and management types is long established, although it isn't clearly defined what sets them apart yet. Its largely a matter of not empathising with others. Now, the best cops are those that think like criminals - its just the lesser of two evils.

To associate the WRC with such personality characteristics is probably wrong. there is a difference between naive "Lets do this" and sociopathy / psychopath.

Victor, i thought you were a mod, what are you doing putting your own anti-management prejudices in here? Are you actually encouraging this thread to go off topic?


And are you calling me naive & showing an anti-WRC bias yourself?

KC61

Victor wrote: »

I'm not sure why you quoted KC61, but the link between sociopathy / psychopathy and criminals and management types is long established, although it isn't clearly defined what sets them apart yet. Its largely a matter of not empathising with others. Now, the best cops are those that think like criminals - its just the lesser of two evils.

To associate the WRC with such personality characteristics is probably wrong. there is a difference between naive "Lets do this" and sociopathy / psychopath.

I'm wondering that myself Victor??

I'm not getting involved in the politics of the WRC at all, but I will try to explain the operational side of it.

My initial opinion of the timetable (without going into any great detail) is that it could be an awful lot better, but how that is achieved given the constraints of:
1) The long section from Ennis to Limerick
2) Maintaining connections to/from Ennis for Limerick/Dublin services
3) Slotting into Dublin/Galway services between Athenry and Galway
4) Trying to give connections to Cork/Waterford
5) Retaining commuter services between Ennis and Limerick

is another day's work - I will try to come back with some suggestions in due course.

westtip

Deleted User wrote: »

Victor, i thought you were a mod, what are you doing putting your own anti-management prejudices in here? Are you actually encouraging this thread to go off topic?


And are you calling me naive & showing an anti-WRC bias yourself?

SS Nosty made a connection about how something he read reminded him of the WRC so ergo it was on topic, he was sharing his thoughts with us - and many thanks for doing so Nosty, just because this thread enters a different direction, in which passing loops, signalling, timetables etc is not directly discussed does not mean it is going off topic, which is why the thread is so bloody interesting. At times it helps to think of the WRC in the wider context of what we see our great leaders do and say and not just as a railway, it indeed has deeper meaning in the context of where we are today.

Although I do agree I don't know why Nosty chose that particular post from KC to quote! Perhaps you could give us the link Nosty. KC your post was very good BTW

Nostradamus

Victor wrote: »

To associate the WRC with such personality characteristics is probably wrong. there is a difference between naive "Lets do this" and sociopathy / psychopath.

No it absolutely 100% correct. Just about every politician in Ireland who "supported" the WRC knew it was a white elephant and did so anyways in order to swindle a few votes. Why, because all polticians are to one degree or another sociopaths. You cannot be a politician who holds office and not be a cold, devious, manipulating psychopath. It's akin to trying to be a fisherman without a net. Some have bigger nets than others, some are bigger psychopaths than others.

Do you honestly think that these politicians supported the WRC based on anything other than lies, manipulations and vote whoring? If if was a Western Lunar Project with Mission Control at Kiltimagh the same politicians would have supported it. Rail line...Farm Supplements...Nitrates...Planning...Childrens Allowance...Racism Against Refugees... "eh, what do I beleive in this week and will say with a glib, straight face to anyone who wants to hear it..."

That Victor is a classic psychological profile of a psychopath/sociopath and you show me one poltician who is pro-WRC who does not have these traits. For chirst sake we talking about cretins who stood there face to face acting all compassionate pretending to fight for women dying of breast cancer while they were working to close down the cancer unit at Sligo General behind their backs. Yet they really beleive in the Western Rail Corridor...

Really now. I am still waiting on a Frenchman to arrive and wipe my arse with gold bogroll as the VOTE YES TO LISBON posters promised. Has anyone else reading this seen him around? What about all the jobs which would manifest if we voted YES... Politicians being honest and sincere people working for the good of others...yeah right.