9800 XT much better than 9800 Pro?

Dcully

Just wondering is there much difference in the Radeon 9800 Pro and 9800 XT?
Im assuming GPU clock speeds are faster on XT but actually ingame does this transfer to better FSAA,AA etc performance.
I havent come up with any Pro V Xt articles at all except for this benchmarking article.


http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-04.html

Col_Loki

Personally i really dont think its worth the extra money. Its far too expensive, the 9800pro's have supprisingly came down to €217 which is madness (www.jes-computer.de). The extra money would be better seen if you got an extra 512mb Ram / Used it to make your PC v.quiet / got better sound / got a nice Keyb&mouse / new 19" screen / another hard disk mabye .......... theres alot you can do depending on what are the weaker points of your setup. (your processor is not a weak point and you have good ram at the min ,i forget the rest of your setup)

Good review with 9800, 9800XT, 9800pro, 9700pro .... http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1890&p=1 (i like their reviews) . It just doesent warent the price tag (double the 9800pro price roughly).

Dcully

Cheers Loki,i went for the Power Color 9800 Pro and got it last week.
Fantastic card tbh but was wondering more out of curiosity how better the XT is.
Im very happy with my setup now.

P4 2.8 800 FSB,
512 Muschkin DDR 3200
Radeon 9800 Pro

Sir Random

Your 9800 Pro should easily clock to XT speeds so you can check the difference yourself.
Anyone buying an XT is mad (at current prices). The card was only developed so it could be launched simultaneously with Half-Life 2, expecting thousands of people to upgrade/buy HL2 all in one go.

ATI expected more from their flagship R350 core, but 412 is all they could manage (in quantity) so they added the auto-overclock feature to imply the card could run much faster, but it doesn't.

BigEejit

Whats that Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro Lite-RTL on jescomputer.de? ... just a bulk card? or is it 128bit memory bus or something? very good price at €218

BloodBath

Well you can pick up a Radeon 9800XT on Komplett for 450, that comes with a voucher for half life 2, you also get the box set of half life 1 which comes with DOD, CS and da Opposing forces and lastly(yawn)the newest Tomb Raider.

That e217 is the store price. It's e229 ordering online. It's also only 128mb and comes with no software. Granted it's a great card for the money but the 9800XT would perform significantly better than it. You can also get a 20-30% overclock with the 9800XT's.

Personally I think it is worth the extra money. Your really only paying an extra e150 for the hardware. Was seriously considering that 9700pro for a while tho as well.


BloodBath

cheradenine

I think it's actually the other way around "versandpreis" (mailorder) is the cheaper 217 euros, store price is 229.

BloodBath

Is it? :eek:

Ya your right, my bad.


BloodBath

Col_Loki

Whats that Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro Lite-RTL on jescomputer.de? ... just a bulk card? or is it 128bit memory bus or something? very good price at €218

Nope its 256bit memory, its basicly a 9800pro retail without any games (or frills as sapphire say).......
The powercolor one is around the same price aswell and comes with tombraider (not great).

The cheaper price is the Mail order price alright, which is nice .
I just bought the 9700pro for €230 from them, wasent expecting prices to fall 3 times in 2 weeks......... doh !!

Thats a sweet gaming rig btw Dcully, if you grab another stick of 512mb ram and run dual DDR the memory scores will fly up and gaming is even better....... mabye the next upgrade eh !!

Kavs

Dcully check out this website ,provides a bios to turn ur pro card into an XT, careful though might affect warranty!

Kavs

dope forgot to paste
http://www.3dmaxx.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=10109#post10109

Dcully

Hi Kavs ,i had a look into that bios flashing thingy.
Im tempted but wonder about the likelyhood of damage to the card.
Could i just overclock the card ?
If so is it safe to overclock ?
Is is a case that once the 9800 is over clocked the system will just shut down and that once the machine is running stable one cannot damage the gfx card?
I overclocked my voodoo 3 card long time ago ,if i pushed too far i either got artifacts onscreen or system shut down,is this a definite yes with all GFX card overclocking and its just a matter of hitting the sweet spot where the card is overclocked to whatever ,system runs stable and therefore the card is in no danger?

Col_Loki

Personally id always under-clock to below the sweet spot......... just to make sure. Am more worried about GFX card than CPU.

BIOS flashing might be a problem......... dont jump straight into it. If it wont overclock to around the 9800XT speeds then chances are it wont flash to a 9800XT. Safer bet is overclocking. Softmod is a different story thats just dealing with drivers so thats pretty safe . You have a great card , overclock it if you want to look good in benchmarks but other than that your gaming is going to be sweet as hell for the time being!!

Dcully

Ok i ran 3D mark 2003 yesterday with nothing overclocked and i scored 5645 i then overclocked the 9800 to 410 for the gpu and left memory at default and i got a score of 5971.
I then ran a few games which gained a few fps, system ran for about an hour before i went back to default speeds.
I dont intend overclocking my cpu as i wouldnt know enough about it.
Basically i need to know if i overclock the 9800 and machine runs fine with no onscreen artifacts can i assume no damage will be done to the gfx card?
Can i assume once its stable then all is well with my 9800?
Loki,yeah all my games are sweet but its kinda nice to benchmark with higher scores

Kavs

I would'nt worry about damaging the card ,the system will usually reboot if you've pushed the card too far and reset the card to default settings, I 've personally tried that bios upgrade and its a piece of cake,what it does basically is make 410,and 365 the default speeds(XT) for the GPU and Ram respectively ,plus in system properties you've got that prestigious XT badge for your card, pretty sweet considering the XT costs about €200 more.
My advice is if ur card can easily reach these speeds without artifacts then why the hell not! If things go wrong u can always restore the original Bios ,make sure to read that article I gave a link to fully to find out how to do this.
My card at the moment is a Hercules 9800 pro 128mb which is kitted out with copper heatsinks on all the ram chips plus at the back of the GPU and voltage regulators ,
so heat is'nt much of a problem at XT speeds.

-(Just a note I've got one of those cards for sale at the mo,never used still in plastic wrap over in the classifieds)-
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140835


sorry bout that ,I know I should'nt be plugging that here.
I've only got 3dmark2001 but I'm hitting around 18000 marks at XT speeds!

Woden

i've been debating whether to overclock my gfx card for a while yet and i haven't brought myself to do it since i had a problem with the fan on my first one, also not sure how good an overclocker my powercolour card is meant to be. anyone know what are the typicaly benefits in 3dmark 01 from going from 9800 pro to XT

(actually on that issue does anyone know the effects of going from 512mb to 1gb of ram is 3d mark also?)

i'd like to clear 18000-19000 in 3dmark. however i'm much more comfortable overclocking the cpu as i can look at its temps and test stability and whatnot

Col_Loki

Loki,yeah all my games are sweet but its kinda nice to benchmark with higher scores

lol yea i know . Im getting around 5.5k 3d2003 and 17k 3d2001 with my setup, thats overclocking with the standard heatsink. I have an artic cooler on it at the min but im waiting for SATA power connectors to get my system up and running again - old hard drive is in dublin(harddrives).

also not sure how good an overclocker my powercolour card is meant to be

I think the main problem is the memory that you get, the core tends to overclock pretty well. If you check the ram that your card has then you will get a better indication of how it will overclock.....

ummm types.... (will prob make a mistake but you will get the general idea) ... Hy(d) ram is a crappy overclocker (ive got that and it overclocks mabye 5-10mhz) , infinion isint great but not as bad, samsung is prob the best for overclocking....... have a look to give you an indication or just pop up the speed and check for artifacts.

Mabye you guys should think of getting an Artic cooler? www.Hitide.ie has them for €16 which is cheaper than most places (have seen them for €29 online) , they are getting great reviews and really keep your card cool.

i'd like to clear 18000-19000 in 3dmark

17.5k is already very good, especially without overclocking....... you should pass 18k with a slight overclock ...... jammy bugger

Woden

looking through my fantastically clear side case panel i see little chips on the back of the card that say samsung on them, is that my ram?

also should i be using the omega drivers or not?

Woden

hmm i upped the core to 412mhz and the memory to 365 using rage3d tested in 3dmark went from about 17200 (just game test using cats4.2) to 17385(full test with 4.2cats)

whats going on here i thought i'd get a much bigger jump then that

Col_Loki

You should get more than that i think. Make sure the program didnt re-set your speed to a lower one when the GFX card became under pressure.

PS, Think its a good sign if you have Samsung Ram...... the stock cooler is pretty bad, would be worth upgrading it.

Woden

hmm its all a bit weird i set up a thread here

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17181525

to pick there knowledge it has some info on what i've tried with the omega drivers also

Dcully

Ok lads my final few questions and i will leave yas in peace .
Ive overclocked my pro to 414/366 slightly above XT speeds i think..
Its been running for a nice few hours now without a hitch.
3d mark 2003 is now scored at 6069 and ingame fps have gone up somewhat.
Is it safe to say my card will be fine at this speed with stock cooling which shipped with card?
Any potential overheating issue with card should have surfaced by now?
Or should i only overclock for gaming ,benchmarking etc and while surfing go back to default speeds?

Dcully

Sorry guys ,jst want to bump this thread and maybe get some answers to my final few questions

Giblet

Play something like Unreal and Battlefield and Deus Ex 2 for a few hours. If nothing happens, then your pretty safe.

Mutant_Fruit

if you notice tearing, wierd effects on your screen, or lots of white dots, then its overclocked too high. EIther reduce the overclock, or get a bigger heatsink.