Honda Civic Totally buggered now!

gwladys boy

with regard to the last post........

i had philips ice blue bulbs put on......still havent got around to fixing the beams

my brother was fixing the exhaust, had to take it to work and do a spot of welding, made a good job of it

after firing her up my brother said your car is ****ed, there is blue fumes, its burning oil...........

that explains the non existent oil from the previous day..........

i got the car for 850 euros....the wanker i got it from obviouslt never took care of it...........ie: it was crashed a few times...small crashed thou.

and possibly never changed oil.

i put in a 350 euros sony xplod mp3 system and expensive speakers.........

i got the car because it was a vtec engine, and thought i was getting a good deal

wat would you people recommend? can the engine be repaired on the cheap?

my brother said it will never be 100% and once you open the engine it will never be the same again........

sceptre

I'm not being a smart ass but have you just spent the same money on your sound (stereo and speakers (you didn't say how much these were) and any other additions you might have made as you did on the car?

(I am rather a curious bunny)

RicardoSmith

I suspect this is a troll.

You get what you pay for. If you're buying a car you should get a full check on it by someone who knows what their doing. A car that cheap isn't worth spending money on. Any engine work is likely to cost €400-600. and no mechanic is likely to take that one. They'll tell you just to go buy a better one.

Incidentally theres a whole load of Vtec engines. The majority of them aren't that powerful, but are designed for economy. Do your research mate.

ondafly

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Incidentally theres a whole load of Vtec engines. The majority of them aren't that powerful, but are designed for economy. Do your research mate.

other way around Ricardo, majority are powerful, very few are economy , better known as VTEC-E

As for the engine buggered because theres smoke - I doubt it some how. More like you put too much oil in as previously suggested. Now this oil is probably in your CAT, which is burning it off, it won't burn it all off - you will need to drop some out.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by ondafly
other way around Ricardo, majority are powerful, very few are economy , better known as VTEC-E

As for the engine buggered because theres smoke - I doubt it some how. More like you put too much oil in as previously suggested. Now this oil is probably in your CAT, which is burning it off, it won't burn it all off - you will need to drop some out.

Thats one thats even more specifically designed for economy. (I thought it was US only?) But ALL Vtecs are designed for econonmy. Thats the whole point of the two cam profiles no? Otherwise they would just have one profile for performance at the top end. I had a 1600 16v non Vtec (130bhp) and it was more powerful than all the single cam Vtecs AFAIK. Only the dual cam Vtecs have any real grunt. Sure the single cams are nippy yeah, and they are nice little motors. But the 16v Vtec's are where all action is.

If oil is getting into exhaust system then its being blown up past the cylinders. Even if you put too much oil in it shouldn't do that. A bit of blue smoke isn't a disaster. My old fiesta has been putting out a bit of smoke under hard acceleration for the past couple of years. But its the sign of wear, or a problem in the engine. You can live with it if you take it easy on the engine and keep the oil topped up. But you shouldn't BUY a car thats doing it. Especially if its doing it at idle.

At least thats my understanding of it. I could be wrong. are there any grease monkeys in the house tonight? :ninja:

ondafly

Honda's idea behind VTEC is to have more power without increasing engine size (CC). VTEC-E is designed with economy as the primary goal, not power output.

what is the 1.6 engine you are referring to ?

laughin boy

had to register and reply to this, where does this ALL vtecs are designed for economy come from? you obviously don't own or have ever driven a honda??

my honda civic is a 1.6 litre DOHC VTEC as standard it produced 158bhp it now produces 186bhp with mods >> no forced induction, all N/A.

also as standard the 1.6 DOHC 158bhp kicked ass with pretty much all other n/a 1.6l motors, why because of VTEC

here's my printout of the 186 bhp

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/p7b7b2be011b472f0e1a99c2d346213a4/f995936c.jpg
just incase the pic doesn't work

Gmodified

if the honda engine burns ltrs of oil, this means only one thing

motor is fvcked,

1.5vtec it's not worth repairing.

ZENER

I had a beautiful Integra '91 with a 1.6 DOHC V-TEC (B-16A)and she was a flyer. Most people dont know how to drive a V-TEC which doesn't kick in till you go over 4500 rpm. Unfortunately one of the valves dropped into cylinder 3 on my engine and wrote it off but a replacement only cost me 350 yoyo's.

Maybe the original poster could tell us the engine spec of his car. The 1.5 V-TEC SOHC was a nice engine and was indeed capable of 130BHP but with poor torque figures which can be improved using adjustable cam gears.

The newer civics etc have economy V-TEC engines that don't do justice to the genuine article Kick Ass DOHC V-TEC installed in the earlier Civics, Integra's and Prelude's. My recommentation is the Integra 1.8 V-TEC DOHC produced in 92 - 96 with the American GS-R spec, it's the closest thing to Type-R without the insurance loading !!

Tinky

mike65

i got the car for 850 euros....the wanker i got it from obviouslt never took care of it...........ie: it was crashed a few times...small crashed thou.

and possibly never changed oil.

Says it all....why buy a crashed car with oil you could
squeeze from a tube?

Mike.

ondafly

Originally posted by tinky
My recommentation is the Integra 1.8 V-TEC DOHC produced in 92 - 96 with the American GS-R spec, it's the closest thing to Type-R without the insurance loading !!

Tinky

The JDM Si is more powerful than the American model, and its RHD

Heres a link to a pic of my engine
http://www.jspeed.net/images/temp/engine2.jpg

It just screams Economy

1.5 VTEC Engine is an excellent engine, and with some choice modifications can produce more BHP and torque.

ZENER

That engine looks like the B-16A that was in my Integra. The American moels are lower power because of the lower octane fuel the have there and the pollutions laws that apply.

If thats a picture of your car then respect ! It looks well and reminds me of mine when I had it. I'm not familiar with the JDM i, I presume this is a Japanese Domestic Market jobby which was rated higher than the US one for the reasons above. The GS-R 1.8 DOHC V-TEC (180BHP) is a nice car but pitty about the body shape - I hated the front shape which is why I bought the '90 Prelude Si 4WS instead

Tinky

RicardoSmith

Just because an engine is designed to have high performance, doesn't mean that precludes high economy. The Vtec is a design that gives you economy at low revs and high power at high revs. Here an article for all you disbelievers. Note the bits about fuel economy.

http://asia.vtec.net/article/d15b/index.html

laughin boy - yes I have had 3 Crx's from a 1.5 SOHC, 1.6 DOHC and a SiR. All very very economical on fuel.

I didn't realise that the later 1.5 Vtec put out. 130ps I was mixing it up with the earlier 1.5 SOHC. Ah well,....

ondafly

@Tinky - yup thats my engine, in a 1.8 DOHC VTEC Si Integra. 177.9BHP on unleaded petrol - God knows what it would be on 100 Octane, and you do notice a difference in performance when running Super Unleaded (even at 97 Octane)

Ah Ricardo - no one ever said you get zero Economy, but the idea is power from a small engine, as opposed to a huge 3 litre american lump (which would obviously cost a small fortune to run and maintain) - and I quote

The majority of them aren't that powerful, but are designed for economy. Do your research mate.

@Ricardo - As for the article on Asia.VTEC (which is a must read for Honda owners) all references to economy are for the 3 stage VTEC engine (VTEC-E), which as we all know is for Economy. Which I've seen quite a few of on Irish roads.

Shall I quote more from that site ? I think I will

two versions of VTEC D15Bs were developed for the EG-series (1991-1995) Civic. One is the well-knowned VTEC-E which delivered an incredible 20+km/l mileage. The other is the VTEC D15B, a power implementation. The VTEC D15B is a very significant engine variant because Honda used VTEC to make it possible to generate as much power as a DOHC design from its SOHC configuration

A power implementation ! mmm, sounds like economy was top of the list in designing that engine.

As for owning 3 VTEC cars, all being economic, they were 3 CR-Xs (note the spelling), an extremely light car, of course it won't drink petrol when it doesn't have to lug around a tonne weight, or if someone doesn't accelerate past 5000 rpm...

So I end with a request. Please Ricardo , list off all the VTEC engines, with the BHP levels, and show me the majority that aren't powerful.

Gmodified

VTEC-E is designed with economy as the primary goal, not power output.

I am glad that you can google Ondafly

http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/sohcvtece.html


Anyway.

1.5 VTEC Engine is an excellent engine, and with some choice modifications can produce more BHP and torque.

It's made for economy not racing and D15Z1 SOHC VTEC-E, 16-Valve, MPFI
has only ~92 bhp. So how sporty is this comparing to b16b

VTEC-E it sucks at moding

ondafly

I never said the VTEC-E was good for modding ??? I said the 1.5 VTEC is. Please read before posting.

Also I didn't need to google at all for that information - as Recardo had posted the link to VTEC ASIA. :rolleyes:

2 versions of VTEC D15Bs exist - one economy , one for power.

As for Magpies general comment - its not just Honda Civics that crash. I've done 1000s of miles all over the country, its all sorts of cars that overtake like idiots with a deathwish - but guess what, its the person behind the wheel thats causes the crash.

Insurance companies rate Civics higher because they are so bloody easy to break into. Later models 96+ have improved on security, and aren't rated so highly.

Gmodified

well, I could be wrong but the most powerful D15 is D15B7 with 102bhp which still sucks at moding.

I hope you Teg is as quick as you ctrl+c/ctrl-v action:D


unless you wrote the engine review here:


So the Civic HX has more power in addition to better fuel economy. But make no mistake, VTEC-E is designed with economy as the primary goal, not power output.
taken from

here

Faltermyer

Originally posted by Gmodified
well, I could be wrong but the most powerful D15 is D15B7 with 102bhp which still sucks at moding.

As has been quoted above, the JDM Civic Vti came with a D15B(not sure on number, think its D15B2-tho there seem to be a Vtec & a non-vtec of this), with 130ps/~127bhp as standard.

And as for only the DOHC Vtec's having "Grunt" - by this I would assume you mean torque? Of which the D16z6('91-95 Civic Esi) actually has pretty reasonable amount.

-At a recent rolling road session, a standard '94 Civic Esi,(1.6SOHC Vtec) got 113.3ft lbs @ 3033 Rpm - yes, I said 3033RPM, not 6000rpm. Not many single cam 1.6 Engines giving that much torque so low down, in fact, thats the sort of peak torque rpm point you would find in many diesels I would think, no?

RicardoSmith

Web Definition: VTEC - Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control A Honda proprietary system in which cam timing, valve duration and lift is varied according to the needs of the driver -- fuel economy (normal driving) and power (pedal to the metal). Each cam has two profiles and rpm determines the shifting from one profile to the other.

Economy is "one" of the primary features of the engine. How can you ignore that

Like I said I didn't realise there was a version of the SOHC Vtec with 130bhp. I thought they were all about 105. WHich is nippy rather than genuinely quick. I'd assume the 1.8 and 2.2 are a lot quicker, I haven't had much experience of those other than the odd test drive. Maybe I used the word "Powerful" too freely. The smaller capacity engines VTEC produce the peak power very high in the rev range, so a lot of the time you not getting the peak power but a lot less. Unless you drive at max revs all the time!

The bigger engines like the 1.8 and 2.2 are much more powerful and have a lot more torque. I was only talking about the smaller engines.

What Irish models have a VTEC-E ?

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Faltermyer
...
-At a recent rolling road session, a standard '94 Civic Esi,(1.6SOHC Vtec) got 113.3ft lbs @ 3033 Rpm - yes, I said 3033RPM, not 6000rpm. Not many single cam 1.6 Engines giving that much torque so low down, in fact, thats the sort of peak torque rpm point you would find in many diesels I would think, no?

Well a 1.9 (90bhp) VW diesel gives (148 lbft) @1900 rpm. The TDI would give a lot more. But that a decent figure for the Esi.

Theres too many versions of these engines. But the post about the locks on the Hondas is good to note. All of CRX's could be got into with a screwdriver in abut 10 sec. I think even the NSX of the same era had the same problem with locks. Didn't realise that they had improved them since 96.

I sold my last CRX after I got a renewal quoke for £3k

ondafly

Originally posted by Gmodified
well, I could be wrong but the most powerful D15 is D15B7 with 102bhp which still sucks at moding

Without going into too much detail , 92 Del Sol VXi has a D15 SOHC VTEC, BHP = 128
:rolleyes:

Its Economy with regards to the amount power - you are not going to get 50MPG in a VTEC car, you will get comparable economy to that of a similiar sized engine in other cars, but will outstrip them in power. Thats why Honda created VTEC-E which had a primary goal of Economy first.

Nobody beats Ricardo on Copy/pasting

Faltermyer

Yes, I was more pointing out that for a petrol, and a 1.6, its a very low point in the revs for peak torque and a reasonable peak torque for what it is.

As for breaking into Civics/CRX's with a screwdriver - thats easily fixed - I, and a few others I know have on Civics(91-95, and 96-00),CRXs, and Integras, put rear door handles on the front doors and removed the locking mechanism, thereby ruling out the use of a screwdriver to simply jam into the keyhole - because there no longer is a keyhole! It also looks a little cleaner/nicer as the handle has less to it.

Obviously, central locking is a must if you wish to do this, and it can lead to you having to crawl in through the boot if your battery goes dead!

Gmodified

Nobody beats Ricardo on Copy/pasting





Yeah, I remember now, Few Fierro Vti's had this engine, most of them probably crashed by now

As for breaking into Civics/CRX's with a screwdriver - thats easily fixed - I, and a few others I know have on Civics(91-95, and 96-00),CRXs, and Integras, put rear door handles on the front doors and removed the locking mechanism, thereby ruling out the use of a screwdriver to simply jam into the keyhole - because there no longer is a keyhole! It also looks a little cleaner/nicer as the handle has less to it.

Yeah, you take off rubber window seal, look down the gap and press withe plastic bit with your pen.

Entire process takes 3 sec .

I locked keys in my Crx before

Faltermyer

Originally posted by ondafly
Its Economy with regards to the amount power - ... ... in a VTEC car, you will get comparable economy to that of a similiar sized engine in other cars, but will outstrip them in power.

Exactly!

RicardoSmith

Have to say that all the Honda's I've had over the years were the most fuel efficent than of any other petrol cars I had. Even smaller engined cars. My point was that VTEC was designed with not just power in mind but also economy as the objective.

Though the economy goes out the window if you've a heavy right foot.

Where a good place in Dublin to look for Jap Imports these days?

gwladys boy

whooooooooa

so many replys......obvioulsy alot of honda loons about!

i have only read a few posts, but seems like there is a few people who dont know as much about the honda vtec as they might think

firstly theres a 1.6vtec in my car.....as all esi saloons do. its a sohc vtec, with approx 125bhp. so as others have pointed out, it kicks ass out of most other 1.6 cars on the road......my reason for buying it in the first place!

the car i sold was a civic coupe, 1.6SR, it had a slightly better 1.6 sohc vtec.

i checked the oil today and driving from kerry to mayo and oil level is still at max,......maybe its not as bad as i thought.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by gwladys boy
firstly theres a 1.6vtec in my car.....as all esi saloons do. its a sohc vtec, with approx 125bhp. so as others have pointed out, it kicks ass out of most other 1.6 cars on the road......

What other 1.6 cars are you talking about?

Jim-SR

no1 has replied completely right yet so il clear it up, theres too many ppl here who dont know what they are talking about tho, the VTEC was NOT built for economy, i can assure you fo that!!!!

lets start with some history...

there has always been a fierce competition between toyota and honda to see who can produced the fastest small engined car in japan

in the 80's toyota created the 4AGE engine, a cheap copy of the Cosworth BDA engine, and ti worked, similar power output and a quarter of the price, it became massively acclaimed!

now at the time honda werent faring so well, and in about 1989 (??) they created their engine to rival it! the B16A was essentially the same engine, but with larger valves, and of course the VTEC system

the idea of of VTEC is you have 2 cams, one is a regular street cam similar to those in every other manufacturers engine, not particularly wild, but good enuff for say 125-135bhp. this cam offers the same economy as any other engine, NOT better! altho hondas have always been renowned for their economy and reliability

the second cam is a much more wild cam! its the sort of cam that used alone on that engine would provide about 160bhp!

now the problem with 160bhp on a 1.6 street-engine is that it doesnt idle particularly fantastically!! also it eats fuel, and ofers very little low end torque! now this isnt good for you typical consumer who doesnt care about performance, they want a car that is comfortable, economical and reliable, but fast enuff that they have somethign to show off in, your typical businessman for example

so in order to keep low end torque, and std economy tehy used the smaller cam, then once you get to the middle of the rev range (4000-5000rpm) you can afford to run a wild cam! so the VTEC switches to the bigger cam!

so as you can see it has no better economy than any other car, and the VTEC system is PURE PERFORMANCE!!!

case closed;)

if any1 would like me to explain the reasons WHY a biger cam is bad at lower revs or any other questions go ahead, i have explanations for it all just lined up in ym head so dont any1 try to be a smartarse

cheers
JIM

ondafly

nice one Jimbo

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Jim-SR
no1 has replied completely right yet so il clear it up, theres too many ppl here who dont know what they are talking about tho, the VTEC was NOT built for economy, i can assure you fo that!!!!....JIM

Funny how your explanation about VTEC is littered with how economical it is. Yeap they designed it without thinking about economy at all. Its meant to be a complete gas guzzler and all the honda engineers were completely taken by surprise when it turned out to be economical. They didn't expect that at all. So it has absolutely nothing to do with ecomomy what so ever.

No better economically than what else? An MR2, a GTI Golf, a 316i, a Peugeot GTI. Ever owned any of these? Much heavier on juice than a Civic/CRX of the same era. Except when you're airborne or travelling backwards through a hedge.

Yes you answered the original question "wat would you people recommend? can the engine be repaired on the cheap?" really well. Well done. Would you like a gold star?

Jim-SR

i own a toyota MR2 from the same era actually, and its no less economical than any VTEC engine ive ever experienced!

the reason my explanation was littered with the word "economy" was because i was trying to emphasise the fact its WASNT built around economy!!

can you not read? are you a spastic? read the history part, and the part about how the cams work

then go to the library and read a book called "the little blue car" (in the kids section) and improve your knowledge of cars a bit, then come back and resume this argument, because you havent made a single worthy comment yet!

JIM