Smoking ban to start on March 29

RainyDay

Claims of a lack of consultation are misinformed. The Health & Safety Authority went through an extensive consultation exercise last year, accepting submissions from the public and interested bodies and running public meetings all round the country. So the consultation definitely happened.

The picture painted by some on this thread of smokers who will only litter their butt as a last resort does not match my day-to-day experience in Dublin. One only has to stand at any major junction and you'll see a smoker tossing a butt from a car within 60 seconds (ignoring the fact that the car has a built in ashtray). And why did I have to pick up a butt from my front porch today? Feckers....

I don't disagree with those who say there should be more bins for smokers. But the fact remains that unless/until such bins arrive, your butt is your problem - clean up after yourself.

Michelangelo

This should have been done 20 years ago before I was born. I hate cigarettes and why people want to do it knowing it is killing them is beyond me.

I'm out of the discussion in regards to the smoking ban, but this litter thing has got me.

The picture painted by some on this thread of smokers who will only litter their butt as a last resort does not match my day-to-day experience in Dublin. One only has to stand at any major junction and you'll see a smoker tossing a butt from a car within 60 seconds (ignoring the fact that the car has a built in ashtray). And why did I have to pick up a butt from my front porch today? Feckers....

Rainy, earlier i posted in regards to the amount of trash let after a satuday night. Some people will litter regardless of whether they're smokers or not. As for people dropping butts on the ground, a definite reason for this is the lack of adequate bins on the streets. And this is a lack for most forms of litter including butt disposal.

I don't disagree with those who say there should be more bins for smokers. But the fact remains that unless/until such bins arrive, your butt is your problem - clean up after yourself.

lol... after this i just can't go on.

ixoy

I walked down Henry Street yesterday, glancing at the bins. I noticed a few only were designed for cigarette butts. Does anyone actually know what percentage are capable of cigarette disposal and is there some sort of minimum requirement?

As an interesting aside, the number of cigarettes being chucked from cars should lessen slightly as the ban also covers vehicles used for company work, such as transit vans, repair trucks, et cetera.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by RainyDay
One only has to stand at any major junction and you'll see a smoker tossing a butt from a car within 60 seconds (ignoring the fact that the car has a built in ashtray).

I notice new signs have gone up at the traffic lights in Ballina: "Throwing cigarettes out of a car is littering - fine €1900" (or words to that effect). Not before time.

ColonelGadaffi

What i was trying to saying in a consise manner is that the smoking ban should be implemented immediately. There is lots of evidence to prove this. As a non smoker I dont want to risk cancer from my work collegues. The vast majority of Smokers will never pick up their butts and should be heavily fined

Smokers will never pick up their butts and should be heavily fined

nice generic comment there. Thanks for lumping all smokers together as litter bugs.

ColonelGadaffi

nice generic comment there. Thanks for lumping all smokers together as litter bugs.

But we of course no this, you look at the footpath? (Im sure you lift your cigarettes off the ground when you finish)

you look at the footpath? (Im sure you lift your cigarettes off the ground when you finish)

I'm sure you have checked the bins, since you're so sure that smokers prefer to drop their cig butts on the streets. As for myself, I've admitted to dropping of butts in the past, just as I've admitted to using the bins, and i've also said that smokers would be less likely to drop the cig butts on the ground if there was adequate bins. Take your pick. Have you ever dropped a piece of litter?

ixoy

Originally posted by klaz
Have you ever dropped a piece of litter?

Honestly, I don't think I have....
I discussed this with a smoking friend last night. He said if there's no bins immediately in front of him when he finishes his cigarette, he'd stub the cigarette out on the ground and carry the offending butt until he reaches a litter bin. I commended him for this - what say you?

seamus

Originally posted by klaz
I'm sure you have checked the bins, since you're so sure that smokers prefer to drop their cig butts on the streets. As for myself, I've admitted to dropping of butts in the past, just as I've admitted to using the bins, and i've also said that smokers would be less likely to drop the cig butts on the ground if there was adequate bins. Take your pick. Have you ever dropped a piece of litter?

That's like saying it's ok to sh*t in the street because there aren't enough public toilets supplied.
I for one will always carry litter in my pocket until I reach a bin. What's to stop smokers doing the same? Even better, if those ashtray yokes were small (say the size of a pack of cigs, it would even fit in your pocket, as opposed to being attached to a belt or something.
I've never met a smoker who didn't just throw the cig on the ground when there were no bins around. Not to say they don't exist, mind.

He said if there's no bins immediately in front of him when he finishes his cigarette, he'd stub the cigarette out on the ground and carry the offending butt until he reaches a litter bin. I commended him for this - what say you?

I say its the right thing to do. Read my above posts. For the most part i will dispose of my cig butts when i can. There are times when i'm not thinking that i might drop a cig but for the most part i will dispose of it properly.

But actually i was directing my question towards ColonelGadaffi since he was the one that lumped all smokers together as litter-bugs.

That's like saying it's ok to sh*t in the street because there aren't enough public toilets supplied.

no its not. ****ting is alot worse than littering. At least in my eyes it is. I don't know if you find it more preferable.

I for one will always carry litter in my pocket until I reach a bin. What's to stop smokers doing the same? Even better, if those ashtray yokes were small (say the size of a pack of cigs, it would even fit in your pocket, as opposed to being attached to a belt or something.

Again you're pointing to something that i still haven't seen. Where are these ashtrays that some posters have mentioned?

I don't litter with the possible exception of those occasional cigs. I was thinking abt this at my smoke break, and i saw the amount of chewing gum stains on the ground. Does the issue of cig butts also apply to everyone, cause i noticed there were alot more of those stains than cig butts? (this is not to excuse the dropping of butts. rather curious what u feel abt these people)

I've never met a smoker who didn't just throw the cig on the ground when there were no bins around. Not to say they don't exist, mind.

Well i've never met a person who has never littered at some stage in their lives. But i'd ask you to just look at the bins on the main street of your town. Just look inside, no need to dirty yourself. I wonder how many of them with have evidence of cig butts.....

Emboss

Originally posted by Michelangelo
This should have been done 20 years ago before I was born. I hate cigarettes and why people want to do it knowing it is killing them is beyond me.

Because we like spening 4k a year on working towards a quicker death...

Also it makes us cooler than you....

Also it makes us cooler than you....

lol...

bonkey

Originally posted by seamus
That's like saying it's ok to sh*t in the street because there aren't enough public toilets supplied.

Not again...

No.
No, it doesn't mean that.
No, its not like saying that.
No, its not the same thing.

It is like saying that some people will sh*t in the street because there aren't enough public toilets supplied, not that its ok for them to do so.

Not one single person here has - in any post - suggested that littering is acceptable. They have said that it happens, and that it will continue to happen and tried to explain why it happens.

Read whats written. Its not hard.

jc

seamus

Originally posted by bonkey
Read whats written. Its not hard.

jc

Apologies, I had kind of just pounced on his remark (and not read a lot of this thread ).
Statement retracted.

Again you're pointing to something that i still haven't seen. Where are these ashtrays that some posters have mentioned?

I don't litter with the possible exception of those occasional cigs. I was thinking abt this at my smoke break, and i saw the amount of chewing gum stains on the ground. Does the issue of cig butts also apply to everyone, cause i noticed there were alot more of those stains than cig butts? (this is not to excuse the dropping of butts. rather curious what u feel abt these people)

I know they don't exist, that was kind of a side comment. The Government made some hoo-haa about introducing them a while back, but typically have let the issue be fogotten about.
I still don't see why any smoker wouldn't carry the butt in his/her pocket until they find a bin? Better yet, put it back in the packet. That's what I personally do with litter - smelly, dirty or otherwise.
Cigarette butts are one annoying thing, chewing gum is another. In fact, chewing gum has two things which make it even easier to dispose of - you can keep chewing until you reach a bin, or put it back in the wrapper and into your pocket.
My post was basically wrongly jumping on that one remark (it was early, I was tired ), but what I've said should be applied to everyone, not necessarily smokers.
I have however heard some smokers use the "not enough bins" and "cigarettes smell" excuses to justify their littering (not on this thread, in person).

Well i've never met a person who has never littered at some stage in their lives. But i'd ask you to just look at the bins on the main street of your town. Just look inside, no need to dirty yourself. I wonder how many of them with have evidence of cig butts.....

Of course everybody has littered. I won't apologise for what I did as a child. I'd hope most smokers are adults though, and I know plenty of adults who've never littered since they were 16 (or at least I've never seen them litter). But I've never met a smoker who can say the same. Again, the same rules apply to everybody. There are people who will litter even when there's a bin just a few metres away, and conversely there are (probably) smokers who hold onto their butts.

Drexl Spivey

I wouldn t be bother too much about litter problems for now.

I don t think smoking should be allowed at all.

Even in the morning when you go to work, you are stuck in the traffic and smokers open their windows to blow the smoke out of their car (hug, I thought passive smoking wasn t dangerous so why don t they keep it in their own car).


Also I really don t understand mothers who smoke with their child beside. I see lots.

A friend of mine was pregnant for about 8 months, she smokes like a trooper and when asked why aren t you stopping she answered with a smile : I can't stop.

This is a dangerous drug = let's ban it completely. It is nothing to do with freedom, it is to do with drugs.

Are we letting heroine addicts have their fix because they should be free to have it ? No, because it is illegal. Cigs should be illegal end of story.

ixoy

Originally posted by Jeff Bond
Even in the morning when you go to work, you are stuck in the traffic and smokers open their windows to blow the smoke out of their car (hug, I thought passive smoking wasn t dangerous so why don t they keep it in their own car).

Well this should be lessend somewhat. As I've mentioned previously, the smoking ban covers work vehicles (e.g.transport vans). This is even if the driver is by themselves. I think it's even a tad more interesting than that - it would cover areas such as phone boxes because they can be construed as places of work for Eircom employees. And that's from someone very VERY much in the know on such things (more so, I imagine, than any of us posters on this thread).

cruiserweight

I think it's even a tad more interesting than that - it would cover areas such as phone boxes because they can be construed as places of work for Eircom employees.

Would they not come under the area of an outside workplace

it would cover areas such as phone boxes because they can be construed as places of work for Eircom employees

Thats a bit of a stretch. Although saying that all it would take is a few employees putting forward such a claim. Still, without their input, i doubt such a push would occur.

And that's from someone very VERY much in the know on such things (more so, I imagine, than any of us posters on this thread).

Do you mind me asking how you're more knowledgeable? Are you a solicitor?

(hug, I thought passive smoking wasn t dangerous so why don t they keep it in their own car).

I'm assuming thats sarcasm?

Even in the morning when you go to work, you are stuck in the traffic and smokers open their windows to blow the smoke out of their car

This is related to passive smoking? Cause the only way for you to be exposed to someone smoking in their car, with the windows down, and you receiving their smoke, would be if you were directly beside their window. In fact, you'd receive more exhaust fumes than any smoke from Cigs. You're taking the justifications for a ban, a bit too far.

I don t think smoking should be allowed at all.

Okies, well, i don't think Alcohol should be allowed to be sold in Pubs, but then theres nobody calling for its abolishment.

Also I really don t understand mothers who smoke with their child beside. I see lots.

I don't either.

seamus

Originally posted by klaz
This is related to passive smoking? Cause the only way for you to be exposed to someone smoking in their car, with the windows down, and you receiving their smoke, would be if you were directly beside their window. In fact, you'd receive more exhaust fumes than any smoke from Cigs. You're taking the justifications for a ban, a bit too far.

That's what I was thinking. Sitting in traffic, you'll have a lot of carbon monoxide floating about, and a negligible amount of that will be from people smoking in their cars.

Sitting in traffic, you'll have a lot of carbon monoxide floating about, and a negligible amount of that will be from people smoking in their cars.

Ah well, i guess some forms of passive smoking are more acceptable than others <shrugs>

ixoy

Originally posted by klaz
Thats a bit of a stretch. Although saying that all it would take is a few employees putting forward such a claim. Still, without their input, i doubt such a push would occur.

Do you mind me asking how you're more knowledgeable? Are you a solicitor?

I'm not more knowledgeable! The person I was told this by is the more knowledgeable party, with him being responsible for implenting health and safety measures for Eircom (which is why I mentioned the phone boxes).

The person I was told this by is the more knowledgeable party, with him being responsible for implenting health and safety measures for Eircom

Oddly enough, I worked for Esat for over a year, and i can tell you that there are people working for both companies, that truely aren't more knowledgeable abt such things than you or me. They just have higher salaries.

Besides this is a legal issue, so to be honest, i'd trust the word from a Solicitor more.

ixoy

Originally posted by klaz
Oddly enough, I worked for Esat for over a year, and i can tell you that there are people working for both companies, that truely aren't more knowledgeable abt such things than you or me. They just have higher salaries.

Besides this is a legal issue, so to be honest, i'd trust the word from a Solicitor more.

Be careful klaz - you're bordering on insulting my hard working father here [the guy in question]... I know he's the sort to do his homework and - while he mightn't agree with elements of the ban - I'm sure he's interpreted it correctly as he sees fit (he has to cover the company for any compensation claims after all).

ixoy, no offense meant.

Drexl Spivey

Originally posted by seamus
That's what I was thinking. Sitting in traffic, you'll have a lot of carbon monoxide floating about, and a negligible amount of that will be from people smoking in their cars.

Of course I know this, but I wasn't addicted to car fumes for 10 years
Car fumes bother me also for that matter but it's not the point. The point is wherever you go you can't escape cigarette smoke. A bit like if you were forcing an ex-alcoholic to drink a bit of alcohol at random during the day (as mentioned i nother posts, I am a reformed smoker). And this is happening outside, where the ban won't take effect.

The point is wherever you go you can't escape cigarette smoke.

oh come on. If you're looking for something in any situation you'll find it. Drive somewhere in your car, and all you'll see is other drivers. Sure some will be smoking, but thats not the point of this ban is it? Its because of passive smoking, and lets face it, non-smokers tend to be a wee bit sensitive as to what they consider the effective radius as to when smoking is an annoyance, or a threat to them.

Is it that people smoke anywhere or is it the smoke that you have to breathe that is the issue? Cause i've noticed a number of people who seem to be confusing the two with each other.

cruiserweight

non-smokers tend to be a wee bit sensitive as to what they consider the effective radius as to when smoking is an annoyance, or a threat to them.

What exactly do you mean effective radius? If you can smell and inhale smoke then it is a threat. Just seeing someone smoke is not a threat. But in an enclosed environment smoke will spread and be a threat. It is more than okay to be "sensitive" when it come to your health and well being.

Linoge

Sorry that this reply is for a post so far back in this thread, I dont have bb anymore. BTW, If you are allergic to sarcasm look away now.

Originally posted by klaz

On the off chance i have a meeting in the city, perhaps one or two cigs would be dropped in street bins. With maybe one being dropped on the street, when i'm not thinking. So out of 21 cigs during the week i would maybe drop one cig on the street.
I smoke slightly less dependent whether i go out or not. If not, i'm at home, so littering is not an issue. If i go out, i spend most of the time in one pub, so thats where my cigs go.

Who are we kidding here. We all know there is no cigarette butt litter problem. Sure if every smoker only dropped one butt thats only about 600,000 a week and sure they're only small.

Originally posted by klaz

As for sore eyes, non-smokers would be more suspectible, but to be honest i get sore eyes from the smell of whiskey and other hard spirits.

Yeh, I did that whole drinking vodka through my eye thing. It stung like hell. Not only am I not going back to the pub I did it in, I'm calling out for a ban on vodka and I'm going to sue Smirnoff.

Originally posted by klaz

Lung cancer, & heart disease can be caused by smoking, but they're not exclusive to smoking, and there have been hundreds of case studies/lab experiments that prove and then disprove that passive smoking actually causes cancer. Do you know one that is completely certain?

I agree. The real reason why the Minister For Health is implementing the ban is to stop the workers clothes from smelling. The whole passive smoking thing was just a scare tactic to keep people in their homes.

Originally posted by klaz

You took the stand that you knew more abt smoking because you were a non-smoker. I disagreed, because i have lived the life of a smoker.

Ahem, IIRC you were the person who told me that

Originally posted by klaz

A non-smoker is going to tell me abt smoking? You have got to be joking right? After 15 years (roughly) i daresay i know more abt smoking and its consequences first hand than you do.... RAWR!!

So, who took what stand with who now?

Originally posted by klaz

No. I said that for me i find the idea of carrying an ashtray full of butts with me would be distasteful, since it would generate a deeper smell than normal smoking. which it does. Smell an ashtray. Its smells way stronger than the smoke when you walk into room with one person smoking.

Do you remember what I said about reading other peoples posts? When did I disagree with you on this point. In fact I agreed with you many times on this fact. My point is though that I dont care. Smokers dont care if they go into a smokey room because they already reak of smoke, however non-smokers do care. Smokers having to carry around a deeper smell, just like non-smokers have had to carry around a disgusting smell of smoke.

Originally posted by klaz

And you have no right to tell me my rights. I leave that to the Law.

1) The irony of you telling me I have no right to tell you your rights.
2) I only have my opinion. I never told you your rights.
3) The smoking ban is "The Law". It is you that is arguing against it.
4) You will only have stopped infringing on my rights on March 29th.
5) The irony again.