For those of you who begrude the NCT/DOE test

Victor

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0219/rta01.html

Man killed in freak road accident
February 19, 2004

(12:29) The man who died in a freak road traffic accident outside the village of Clarina in Co Limerick yesterday was Vincent Byrnes.

He was a single man in his 60s who was from Clarina.

Mr Byrnes was walking towards the village at around 4pm when the twin wheels came off the axle of an articulated truck, hitting him and killing him instantly.
The driver of the truck continued his journey unaware of what had happened. He was eventually tracked down by gardaí on the outskirts of Limerick city.

He is said to be very shocked.

Sleipnir

yeah that was a bit of a scary story alright.

You know neither the day or the time.

TommyK

Yep, those tests don't just exist to make life difficuly for you.

Apparently, many people driving commercial vehicles don't even know what a DoE is until they go to tax it one day and are asked for it. The either look blankly at the cashier or start raving like a lunatic that "you f*cking b*astards are trying to screw me !!! (or something like that - I see at least one person like that every time I go to the Motor Tax Office).

If you drive a commercial vehicle, you *should* know when to get a Doe test (Its written on all your tax reminders anyway, ffs!).

Getting it done could actually save your life (or someone elses).

If you don't get it done, don't end up "shocked" when you kill someone!

Tommy.

P.S. - Its also a legal equirement to do it anyway - you dont have a choice. You are obliged to carry it in the vehicle and produce it to a Garda on request. If you don't, you can and will get f*ucked.

Tommy Vercetti

IIRC it's not the first time in the last few years that a pedestrian has been killed by a wheel coming off. Surely the manufacturers need to address this problem too.

Capt'n Midnight

Looked at the pictures in the paper - it seemed to me that the bolts were all missing - couldn't tell if the inner rim was damaged or not - so can't say if the bolts fell off before or after.

Likley as not when the report comes out it will not appear on telly and only take a few column inches.

silverside

May Mr. Byrne Rest in Peace.

I don't like the way every unusual accident is described as a 'freak' accident - that implies it is unavoidable. Many of the 'freak' accident that occur with children, bad weather, etc could be avoided by assuming that everything that can go wrong will go wrong and planning accordingly.

Cerdito

regarding the DOE....I have my driving test next week and I'm doing it in my Dad's light van (Citroen ZX....no back windows etc.). He has it commercially taxed and it has undergone the DOE test. All the stuff about the driving test say that you have to have an NCT sticker displayed which obviously my car-van doesn't. Am I OK for the test? I'll bring the DOE cert with me...but are the testers aware of this exemption?

TommyK

Originally posted by Cerdito
regarding the DOE....I have my driving test next week and I'm doing it in my Dad's light van (Citroen ZX....no back windows etc.). He has it commercially taxed and it has undergone the DOE test. All the stuff about the driving test say that you have to have an NCT sticker displayed which obviously my car-van doesn't. Am I OK for the test? I'll bring the DOE cert with me...but are the testers aware of this exemption?

The NCT is for privately taxed vehicles only.

The DoE should be kept in your vehicle at all times.

If you bring it, you should be okay.

Victor

Originally posted by silverside
I don't like the way every unusual accident is described as a 'freak' accident - that implies it is unavoidable.

Yeah, things like this aren't so much accidental as "inevitable".

Seth Brundle

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
IIRC it's not the first time in the last few years that a pedestrian has been killed by a wheel coming off. Surely the manufacturers need to address this problem too.

How can the manufacturer apply this in reality? It is up to each motorist to ensure that their vehicle is roadworthy. Part of being an owner means the routine checks such as checking tyre pressures and wheel nut tightness - something most Irish people don't do! (the amount of times I have been asked how to use the tyre pressure gauge used on forecourts).

JohnBoy

Wheels coming off trucks is an unfortunate thing that can happen.

I don't know what it is about trucks that makes it more likely to happen to them but it does happen.

A lot of more modern trailers (especially fuel tankers) have little arrow flags on all the wheel nuts, if all of these are pointing at each other your ok, but if not they have to be tightened again. the flags give a simple visual check.

take a look next time the filling station is getting filled (some buses have em too)

John

Victor

Originally posted by kbannon
How can the manufacturer apply this in reality?

Replace nuts with a fitting that can't "fall off". Such fittings are common in sailing (if something falls off it's gone in the water).

OK, maybe a bit more expensive than nuts, but in the €100,000+ price of a truck not a whole lot.

Tommy Vercetti

yeah exactly, I don't think it would take much for a manufacturer to make sure a wheel doesn't fall off, surely they must design these things on the assumption that the owner isn't going to check everything regularly

GreeBo

surely they must design these things on the assumption that the owner isn't going to check everything regularly

Why?
How much should the deigners be responsible for?
Should the car tell you when you have no break pads left for people who dont check?
Should the car tell you when you dont have a great enough gap between you and the car in front?

Part of being a driver is looking after your vehicle, its not just about being able to make it move.:dunno:

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by redoxan
Why?
How much should the deigners be responsible for?
Should the car tell you when you have no break pads left for people who dont check?
Should the car tell you when you dont have a great enough gap between you and the car in front?

Part of being a driver is looking after your vehicle, its not just about being able to make it move.:dunno:

uhh don't jump down my throat, all I'm saying is that it isn't exactly rocket science to design a wheel that doesn't fall off

Victor

Originally posted by redoxan
Should the car tell you when you have no break pads left for people who dont check?

They do, you get a loud screeching sound when then are nearly worn out. Aren't there "radiator overheating" and other warning lights in cars?

padraigmyers

I find the title to this thread a little annoying. I have been know to give out about the NCT once or twice, but I think I, like most peole who have given out about it, believe that the test is needed, whats annoying is when you are failed over number plates without the county in Irish above, or misaligned headlights that have just been aligned by a garage etc
Its not the test that the problem, its the fact that, like most good ideas in this country, its just turned into another money-spinner.......a bit like speeding fines.....

GreeBo

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
uhh don't jump down my throat, all I'm saying is that it isn't exactly rocket science to design a wheel that doesn't fall off

So you would have no problem having to go to a garage with the special machine needed to remove these super-new wheels?
And paying a premium for it?
Ok, fine.:rolleyes:

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by padraigmyers
a bit like speeding fines.....

that can of worms is wide open elsewhere!

padraigmyers

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
that can of worms is wide open elsewhere!

Yeah, I know, I couldn't resist, it must be my inner-troll trying to get out.....

GreeBo

Originally posted by Victor
They do, you get a loud screeching sound when then are nearly worn out. Aren't there "radiator overheating" and other warning lights in cars?

And, (now dont quote me on this, I heard it from a friend) they have these things call "nuts" on the wheel, and if they arent all there, then you are missing some "nuts" and you need to get some of these so called "nuts" replaced, tightened.


I think they decided that the "your wheel is about to fall off, stop and tighten it you moron" light was a bit too difficult to draw in the manual.

Victor

Originally posted by redoxan
So you would have no problem having to go to a garage with the special machine needed to remove these super-new wheels?

If things can be installed on a €10,000 sail boat they can be fitted on a €100,000 truck. Primarily what would be needed is something to stop the but loosening itself (especially if not tightened properly) by fitting a "cross bar" through the bolt part to prevent the nut spinning.

OK this would mean increasing the thinkness of the bolt marginally (and bigger holes in the wheel to suit) and using a longer nut.

GreeBo

Originally posted by Victor
increasing the thinkness of the bolt marginally (and bigger holes in the wheel to suit) and using a longer nut.

Or you could just look at your wheels every now and again...

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by redoxan
So you would have no problem having to go to a garage with the special machine needed to remove these super-new wheels?
And paying a premium for it?
Ok, fine.:rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure that a truck driver never has to remove a wheel (nor would he be able to) for any reason so there's no need to roll your eyes.

Capt'n Midnight

The little arrows are just plastic clip ons - should be able to buy from motor shop (should - means they should by rights sell them - they probably don't)

After changing a wheel you should tighten the nuts/bolts after 100 miles as the "settle in"

You could also figure out some sort of cable thingy that clips on and holds wheels in and up in the event of bolts falling loose.

Lots' of Fiats have a brake warning light (sensor on the front left pad - when metal touches metal a light comes on - but garages usually disconnect them cos they were bloody annoying. That metalic sound is reminder enough (especially when you remember that trains use metal wheels on metal rails because of the low rolling resisitance.)

JohnBoy

Victor: what are these fitments on sailing boats that you talk of?

If a wheel on a truck decides it wants to come off there's not a whole lot you can do to stop it. locknuts and the like will only go so far.

I've seen a truck where the bearing seized and opened the hub nut for itself. it broke a quarter inch (ultra strong special steel) pin to force the hub nut (which was in itself a 3+ inch castleatted nylock and popped the drum and wheel right off the truck.

Thankfully this happened at about ten miles an hour and no-one was around to get hurt, but basically the forces at play in a truck's axle/hub/wheel can only be described as massive and the only safe fastener is a regularly checked one.

John

Victor

Originally posted by JohnBoy
I've seen a truck where the bearing seized and opened the hub nut for itself. it broke a quarter inch (ultra strong special steel) pin to force the hub nut (which was in itself a 3+ inch castleatted nylock and popped the drum and wheel right off the truck.

Ah, I've never noticed pins on truck wheels.

Originally posted by JohnBoy
Victor: what are these fitments on sailing boats that you talk of?

Much as you described above, with a piece of the sailing rig (as opposed to guard rails etc.) if it is screwed on, it is also pinned and typically the pin will have a cross pin as well.

However, if a wheel nut a can shear off, there is nothing a pin can do. At that point, you want something to prevent the wheel coming off* immediately and something to warn the driver.

* For example many coats come with a zip and buttons - the buttons (which can be easily refitted) will break off before the zip. In the case of a truck wheel it is much more complicated as the wheel rotates, perhaps an inner wheel that spins independently of the wheel connected to a cable that is then connected to the wheel hub.