Keane's at it again

Villain

Originally posted by The Muppet
Whats with the one man crusade to change history. Everyone knows that Mc Carthy sent him home . Will ya change the record . What happened to "this is the last time i am going to say this" quote from you on page 2.

I will stop quoting when people start reading it and see what ROY KEANE SAID.

Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you Muppet, but they were his words, why can't you accept that??

cournioni

Originally posted by irish1
Sorry to butt in but PORNAPSTER, he left the world cup by his own admission therefore he walked out on his country, pretty straight forward in my book.

No one really knows what happened in Saipan irish1. Dick McCarthy said he sent him home, and Roy said he left... So no one can say anything really. It would be better if people left assumptions out of this.

Besides, its his performance on the pitch that counts. If he came back and got Ireland as far as the semi-finals of WC2006 who would care what happened in Saipan?

Villain

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
No one really knows what happened in Saipan irish1. Dick McCarthy said he sent him home, and Roy said he left... So no one can say anything really. It would be better if people left assumptions out of this.

Besides, its his performance on the pitch that counts. If he came back and got Ireland as far as the semi-finals of WC2006 who would care what happened in Saipan?

The only thing I'm assuming is that Roy Keane was telling the truth. Did you read the post where Niall Quinn as also said in his book that he thought he wasn't sent home but that he left?

His performance on the field is the only thing that counts when he chooses to play!

Now I believe he turned his back on his country and by making comments like he has is bad for Brain Kerr and bad for the Irish soccer team.

Ronan|Raven

I think a lot of you should go and read "Behind the Green Door" by Brendon Menton. He gives a very good account of what happened in Saipan and how Keane was convinced to return that time, then was sent home or god knows what. The book is in places used to cover his ass in bits but does give another side to the whole saga which helps things fall into place. Great book as well that deals with the whole stadia debacle.

You read! You Read now! Mow didi mow.

cournioni

Originally posted by irish1
The only thing I'm assuming is that Roy Keane was telling the truth. Did you read the post where Niall Quinn as also said in his book that he thought he wasn't sent home but that he left?

His performance on the field is the only thing that counts when he chooses to play!

Now I believe he turned his back on his country and by making comments like he has is bad for Brain Kerr and bad for the Irish soccer team.

Tbh, thats only another opinion. I wouldn't listen to him much anyway, everyone knows that he is a people pleaser at this stage anyhow. We still do not have the whole story of what went on in Saipan, and I don't think we ever will. Thats why I think people should stop making assumptions.

Now, now come on, are you saying that he was faking injuries again?! Again we don't know what the whole story is with that. All I know is whenever I've ever seen him wear an Ireland jersey he gave his all to the team and to Ireland as a whole. And I don't think many people will disagree with me on that.

You can believe that he turned his back on Ireland if you want, but that is only an opinon. Again we don't know the whole story and we should stop making assumptions. One thing you may be right about though is that bringing all of this up again could be negative to the Irish soccer team and that his inclusion in an Ireland squad could disrupt things. He said it himself. But it could work to Ireland's advantage either. You'd never know.

Harry2001

I get the feeling Keane enjoys all this cloak and dagger sh1te - he likes to keep people guessing.

If he want's to come back then just come out and say it FFS

At least that way Kerr can let him back in or tell him to get lost.

Does he just want Kerr to say "we love you Roy" to stroke his ego a bit more?

Either way I'm sure there are a few players that don't want him in the squad.

Ronika

well personnally I don't want to see him back. We have a very good team at the moment. We did well in the world cup, whether we wud have done better with keane is debatable and we'll never know cos many varibles could have happened like him losing his head and getting red carded during one of the games etc. At the moment I dont think the Irish team needs any disruptions. The players we have are coming along nicely, look at Duff. There all growing under Kerrs Mgmt and I think IMO that with the right encouragement from supporters that we'll do well. So please let the whole keane thing die. Since the world cup the only keane I care about is Robbie

cournioni

I read somewhere that alot of the players said that they would love to have him back, even McAteer. Maybe there is one or two that don't want him back but I'm sure alot of the player would share my opinion and say that they would love to have him back because he adds an unbelievable strength to the team.

The Muppet

Originally posted by irish1
I will stop quoting when people start reading it and see what ROY KEANE SAID.

Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you Muppet, but they were his words, why can't you accept that??

Can You explain Mc Carthys quote below which was made at the time Keane was sent home. Was Mc Carthy Telling lies at the time?

McCarthy was quoted as saying that clear-the-air talks with Keane had turned into a slanging match. "I cannot and will not tolerate that level of abuse being thrown at me, so I sent him home,"

cournioni

TBH Muppet, there is no point in bringing up the Saipan incident again. Its Roy's performances in the Ireland jersey that count and I think they speak for themselves.

And besides Dick McCarthy is gone now...

The Muppet

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
TBH Muppet, there is no point in bringing up the Saipan incident again. Its Roy's performances in the Ireland jersey that count and I think they speak for themselves.

And besides Dick McCarthy is gone now...

I know but its a bit silly trying to change the facts at this stage in such a well publicised event.

I wonder if Keano does come back will that open the door for Micks return at a later stage.;)

Thanx 4 The Fish

Well it would fall in with your profile of Mc Carthy if he was lying wouldn't it. Or do you think that your golden boy Keane is the liar ? He said he left, that is that. There is no changing the facts, as you have been at pains to point out, but you do not know the facts, nor do I but I am going on something Keane himself said and not something that Mc Carthy is reported to have said. It is unfortunate that you have to see it as Keane was pushed rather than walked, just to maintain your rosy image of Keane.

As for how much he has disimproved, he used to have excellent games more than twice a season. It is a testament to how far he has fallen that Man U fans can only mention a couple of games that he has played as weel as he is expected to this season.

Perhaps his lack of performances in the Ireland jersey are something that could be discussed too, how many times was he unfit to play on a wednesday and alright for United on a saturday ?

The Muppet

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
Well it would fall in with your profile of Mc Carthy if he was lying wouldn't it. Or do you think that your golden boy Keane is the liar ? He said he left, that is that.

No I don't believe Mc Carthy was lying whe he said he sent Roy Keane Home, do you?

GuanYin

Originally posted by The Muppet
No I don't believe Mc Carthy was lying whe he said he sent Roy Keane Home, do you?

So you think Keane is lying when he said that he left and wasn't sent home on live national television?

Ronika

Pornapster leave Maccarthy out of this. He's not a bad manager at all. Look at the team he was left with when he first took over and look at the team he left for kerr. He's done very well with very little resources. yes Keane was one of those resources but he created alot more without him

cournioni

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
Perhaps his lack of performances in the Ireland jersey are something that could be discussed too, how many times was he unfit to play on a wednesday and alright for United on a saturday ?

I can't honestly remember, however whenever he played in the Ireland jersey he gave his all. What more can you ask for? And alot of the games he missed where only friendly international regardless of his physical condition. Again you are making assumptions when you do not know the whole story.

And I think that his performances have spoken for themselves this season T4TF, so much to the point that someone made a thread about making him player of the season. And you'll notice that most of the people in that thread agreed that he was playing great football.

IgnatiusJRiley

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
I say just support whatever is best for Ireland and that is having the best team possible.

Exactly. Having Keane back would be good for the team and will help bridge the gap between now and when players like Healy and Miller start to shine.
Who cares who said what or did what in the past. Look to the future and it'll be a hell of a lot brighter with another world class player in the team.

cournioni

Originally posted by Ronika
Pornapster leave Maccarthy out of this. He's not a bad manager at all. Look at the team he was left with when he first took over and look at the team he left for kerr. He's done very well with very little resources. yes Keane was one of those resources but he created alot more without him

How many games did McCarthy win at the world cup? One against a team that lost 8-0 to Germany. How many games did he win without Keane in the team? Why did he persist with playing players that were out of form and playing players out of position. Telling Denis Irwin to "prove himself". And his man management skills told the whole story over his handling of Saipan.

And Mick McCarthy did not create Damien Duff, Robbie Keane etc. they made themselves into class players. He just played them. Brian Kerr would have those players at his disposal regardless of who was in charge of the team before him.

IgnatiusJRiley

Originally posted by irish1
No Eirebhoy he left, please please just believe it, I can't hack you insisting he was sent home

According to Keane, he left. According to McCarthy, he sent Keane home. Indeed at a recent press conference, McCarthy was asked about the high-point of his time with Ireland and he said "Sending that twat home". He then asked which player in the world he'd most like to sign for Sunderland and said "That twat... so I could send him home again."

Thanx 4 The Fish

Well fair fncking play to him and I wish him all the best in getting Sunderland back up into the PL.

cournioni

It would be interesting to see what would happen if they did get promoted and were playing Man United next season. Its doubtful that he would get a good reception at OT anyway.

Genghis

I was hoping to see them come to Old Trafford in the FA Cup. McAteer and McCarthy vs Keane! A Semi-final fixture is still possible, though unlikely.

GuanYin

Look, Keane is still probably the best central midfielder eligible to play for Ireland (I'll admit I'm not psychic and that there *could* be a south american or african undiscovered talent eligible to play for us who is better than Keane, so I say "probably" :rolleyes:) and yes I would rather see him in the team over McAteer.

BUT and this is a huge BUT, the team is settling now. There is little pressure on them and no real fallout from the KEane-McCarthy saga left as most of the major players are gone. KEane, despite his greatness is Fergie's lapdog and rightly or wrongly will always jump to fergie's horn over anything else. Ireland doesn't need that sort of thing anymore. Especially with the young players who are impressionable and trying to settle in and find their feet.

Quite simply, the best attention a team can get is attention to their football. Not to their player lifestyles, their off the pitch antics, their personalities or their in-fighting. That just won't be possible with a Keane return. Why can't he leave it.

Incidently, David Kelly did a good article in the indo on it.

Ronika

McCarthy was asked about the high-point of his time with Ireland and he said "Sending that twat home". He then asked which player in the world he'd most like to sign for Sunderland and said "That twat... so I could send him home again."

Thats the funniest thing I've heard all day-:D

cournioni

Originally posted by syke
BUT and this is a huge BUT, the team is settling now. There is little pressure on them and no real fallout from the KEane-McCarthy saga left as most of the major players are gone. KEane, despite his greatness is Fergie's lapdog and rightly or wrongly will always jump to fergie's horn over anything else. Ireland doesn't need that sort of thing anymore. Especially with the young players who are impressionable and trying to settle in and find their feet.

Quite simply, the best attention a team can get is attention to their football. Not to their player lifestyles, their off the pitch antics, their personalities or their in-fighting. That just won't be possible with a Keane return. Why can't he leave it.

That is quite possibly very true, but he was asked if he would like to return to the squad and he gave us his thoughts. It's not like he called a press conference just to declare that he would like to play for Ireland again.

There is nothing wrong with him leaving himself open to an international call up.

Thanx 4 The Fish

"In the light of such advice I regret that I am compelled to confirm my retirement from international football.

"I am extremely grateful for all the support I have received in recent months and I am equally sorry that I am unable to play again for my country.

"I wish Brian and the players the best in the future. They will have my full support at all times."

If he did not wish to retire from international football and did want to leave himself open to an international call up then why did he say this ? From here

cournioni

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
If he did not wish to retire from international football and did want to leave himself open to an international call up then why did he say this ? From here

I don't know, ask him...

rocco

f0ck him he walked away when his country needed him . Leave him where he is no matter what he says .

The Muppet

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
If he did not wish to retire from international football and did want to leave himself open to an international call up then why did he say this ? From here

The Cheek of him changing his mind if thats what he has done.

Flog him I say.

cournioni

Originally posted by rocco
f0ck him he walked away when his country needed him . Leave him where he is no matter what he says .

:rolleyes:
Have you read a word that me or anyone else said here?

AthAnRi

This debate again. Here is my opinion.

Firstly what happened in the World Cup is over. I think most people here should learn to deal with that. Wether or not you think Keane is Wrong or not. Personally I think he was right but chose the wrong time to go about it. Also if and I must imphasise the if, he does want to return to International football and play for Ireland, surey that shows he has not turned his back on his country does it not.

Either way it is now time to forgive and forget. Move on. If he did want to return then Kerr should certainly consider it. Obviously if the rest of the players were uneasy with the decision then it may be the wrong option, however how could Ker turn down the possiblity of having Roy Keane in his midfield. In fairness Irelend are hardly jam packed with midfield players now are they.

Imagine this Irish team

Given

Carr Cunningham O'Brien O'Shea

Miller Keane Holland A.Reid

Duff

Keane

It actuall looks decent on paper and they have plenty of decent reserves to throw in

S.Reid, Healy, Kavanagh, Morrision, Kilbane, Finnan,

cournioni

That team could match anyone in the world, and could really challenge for things IMO.

Ronika

One Man doesn't make a team!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So by that means our team isn't bad at all at the moment.l just have one question if Keane had never left the team, would he had played that friendly against Brazil? I think the answer is damn straight he would have. he would have played it cos it suited him to play and i would say that with the other friendlies their u wudn't see a hair on his head. You can't pick and chose what you will or will not play. Your suppose to be a team and if he does come back Kerr sud make that point.

StickyMcGinty

he closed the door not once, but twice on his international career so let him die out along with rest of the man united team. even if we do take him back who says he will put in 100%, or he might just leg it if things are going bad!

he's as loyal to the the republic as ian paisley

eirebhoy

Originally posted by TwoShedsJackson
Get a grip will you?? Some people are as bad at the English at hyping up what their team is capable of.

We drew with Cameroon, a game we should have won, got a fortunate draw with Germany, and then beat the worst side in the tournament (by a long way). We then failed to beat Spain despite them having ten men for almost the entirety of extra time, and produced some of the worst penalty taking in history to exit the tournament.

I was delighted Ireland got to the World Cup, and I don't doubt we would have done better if Roy Keane had stayed and played, but you're talking out of your arse saying we could have won it.

Why did you have to word that in the way you did? Keane got United to the champions league final so I am sure could have at least brought something to our team. Could you not have said, "I disagree, I don't think we would have had a hope in hell of winning the world cup with or without Roy"? I really do believe we could have won the world cup with Keane in the team. For a start, we could, and probably would, have won the group. Then we would have played Paraguay, USA and S.Korea, (all of which we probably would have been favourites) to get to the final. Ireland -v- Brazil in the final (with Duff and Keane in the team), god knows what would have happened. Anyway thats in the past.

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
I would not like to see Keane play for Ireland again, no matter how good he is, or is professed to be, anyway by the time that WC06 comes around he will be past it.

TFTF, Keane had it all thought out, he said he would only play the 10 qualifiers and that was that. BTW he is a year younger than Cunningham. He is also younger and in better condition than McAteer.

A lot of people are saying will ever make up his mind and stop this media stirring. He came over to Ireland and no doubt had this all planned, it was the easiest way to declare himself available for Ireland and that is exactly what he has done. "Its not up to me, its up to the manager, its as simple as that really". If anyone heard the whole interview they would know that this is Keane putting the whole thing in Kerr's hands.

About him leaving or been sent home. I believe it was both. He went storming out of the room and I'd say he went straight to his room and start packing. At the same time McCarthy held a press conference and said he had to send him home. Whats all this "He turned his back on his country"? This is Roy Keane, he is a maniac and he would do a lot to play for Ireland. He turned his back on McCarthy, how could you expect them to be in the same room as each other after what they both said? If all the players backed Keane instead of McCarthy it would have been McCarthy "turning his back on his country" instead of Roy.

We are making a big issue out of Roy refusing to play for someone he despises. I just say forgive him and lets get Ireland to Germany.

Villain

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
:rolleyes:
Have you read a word that me or anyone else said here?

He could have read mine and agreed with me, Pornapster just beacuse he doesn't worship the man who by his own admission walked out on his country, doesn't mean you should be rolling your eyes at his opinion.

leeroybrown

When I saw the story originally on Aertel I thought there might have been a chance of a return but afterwards I saw TV footage of the press conferance and it was a very very slim chance.

I got the impression that Keane was saying that there was a chance he would make himself available for selection if he thought that the manager and players were open to the idea of him coming back. The way the article was written gave the impression that he had practically decided to come back.

Villain

Originally posted by The Muppet
Can You explain Mc Carthys quote below which was made at the time Keane was sent home. Was Mc Carthy Telling lies at the time?

What someone was reported to have said, and what someone said on Live television is very different Muppet

The Muppet

Originally posted by irish1
What someone was reported to have said, and what someone said on Live television is very different Muppet

Are you for real, are you tryng to say Mc Carthy never said he sent him home. Do you think the whole country was asleep last summer or what?

Your version of events is hearsay unless you can produce creditable evidence to support it.

osted by VinnyL
he's as loyal to the the republic as ian paisley

Or the majority of people here .

Villain

Originally posted by The Muppet
Are you for real, are you tryng to say Mc Carthy never said he sent him home. Do you think the whole country was asleep last summer or what?

Your version of events is hearsay unless you can produce creditable evidence to support it.

Did you not see the TV3 Dunphy show interview???

I don't have a copy of it but call TV3 if you want, they might give you a copy, then you can sit down and here Keane say he left for yourself!

Thanx 4 The Fish

It is incredible that you can remain totally oblivious to the fact that Roy has sadi he walked out. You are harping on about how he was sent home, when he himself has said that he left the team. And as for that poll, it was about supporting your club or country, and not playing for it, If i ever got the chance to wear the green and represent Ireland in anything I would not let anything get in my way, the rights of the player are protected in that regard by FIFA. If Roy wanted to play he would be playing for Ireland still, he doesn't and so he isn't.

I would be willing to bet that he is not too happy to have watched from afar as Ireland held Brazil to a good draw in a game that he could have played, knowing well that it was all his own fault.

This is more of him blowing crap, he made out he'd come back when Mc Carthy left then said he wouldn't when Mc Carthy did leave, said he couldn't go against the advice of the doctors but has obviously since decided that they were not talking sense either.

At the end of the day, good or bad, if anybody else treated the green like that they would not get a second, never mind fourth chance and why should he.

Big Ears

Originally posted by Ronan|Raven
I think a lot of you should go and read "Behind the Green Door" by Brendon Menton. He gives a very good account of what happened in Saipan and how Keane was convinced to return that time, then was sent home or god knows what. The book is in places used to cover his ass in bits but does give another side to the whole saga which helps things fall into place. Great book as well that deals with the whole stadia debacle.

You read! You Read now! Mow didi mow.

my brother got me the book for christmas , its a very good book and shows all the cock ups of the FAI.

smemon

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
At the end of the day, good or bad, if anybody else treated the green like that they would not get a second, never mind fourth chance and why should he.

because he's one of the greatest players on the planet and THE ultimate captain, which ireland dont have and need badly.

as for keane walking or being pushed, it doesnt matter! we all know the reason why he returned home - substandard facilities and gear. thats the bottom line, it sparked his temper and caused the whole thing.

people who say he's losing it are just trying to convince themselves ireland dont need him anymore. with a young energetic miller beside him, keane could easily last 3/4 years in ireland's AND Utd's midfield.

im not too worried about all the people in here who wouldnt want him back, it's the 35,000 at landsdowne. he quite simply can't come back if the majority are against him. another negative would be all the media attention following the squad about the place, like david beckham.

DaithiSurfer

This started off as a good thread but sadly within 1 page it turned into the usual ****e about saipan and whether or not Keane was sent home.
Simple fact of the matter is that All was settled there, and then Keane gave an interview to the paper and McCarthy read it an blew his top.
Both at fault in my eyes.
As for him coming back. I dfont think so.
It would do more harm than good. There are players there that he has offended by saying things about them in his book etc and i think that he would have an adverse effect on the team as it is now.
****, i'ld be surprised if any of the irish players would even pass the ball to him, whatever it is that they say to the media.
Even people who are not involved in football get emotional and upset when Keane is mentioned(no matter what side of the fence they sit on). Imagine how unsettle the players would get.
Let him stay where he is and let the lads get on with it.

The Muppet

Originally posted by Thanx 4 The Fish
It is incredible that you can remain totally oblivious to the fact that Roy has sadi he walked out.

Link Please otherwise its hearsay.


Why did Keane say in his RTE inteview that Mc Carthy was Right to send him home.

Link

And as for that poll, it was about supporting your club or country, and not playing for it,

The poll was a simple question and a majority of people here put their club before country so for them to vilify Keane for doing the same thing is hypocrisy.

At the end of the day, good or bad, if anybody else treated the green like that they would not get a second, never mind fourth chance and why should he.

As I have said I don't expect him to ever play for Ireland again .

eirebhoy

There is definitely a bit of ABU-ism in most of the Anti-Keane's meaning they are taking the issue more serious then it actually is. I don't know of one Man Utd fan that doesn't back Keane for what he did or didn't do in Saipan. If he played for Liverpool/Arsenal/Forest at the time most of the Irish fans of the club he played for would back up Keane. You may say you wouldn't and ManU fans support Keane because they are this and that but we are all human. United fans are no different then the rest of us no matter what you may think.

Think of Liam Miller "turning his back" on Celtic, most of the Celtic fans hate him for it but most of the Irish fans have nothing against him. Roy Keane "turned his back" on Ireland, most of the Irish fans hate him for it but most of the Irish-United fans have nothing against him.

If Keane had done something really serious the Irish-United fans wouldn't forgive him.

Villain

Originally posted by eirebhoy
If he played for Liverpool/Arsenal/Forest at the time most of the Irish fans of the clubs would back up Keane. .

Disagree 100% if he played for Villa, I'd still think he walked out on his country.

Muppet, ring TV3 and get the interview, he said I saw it.

Oh and that link is a quote from a quote that a Daily Mail Journalist wrote.

The Muppet

Originally posted by eirebhoy
There is definitely a bit of ABU-ism in most of the Anti-Keane's meaning they are taking the issue more serious then it actually is. I don't know of one Man Utd fan that doesn't back Keane for what he did or didn't do in Saipan. If he played for Liverpool/Arsenal/Forest at the time most of the Irish fans of the clubs would back up Keane. You may say you wouldn't and ManU fans support Keane because they are this and that but we are all human. United fans are no different then the rest of us no matter what you may think.

Think of Liam Miller "turning his back" on Celtic, most of the Celtic fans hate him for it but most of the Irish fans have nothing against him. Roy Keane "turned his back" on Ireland, most of the Irish fans hate him for it but most of the Irish-United fans have nothing against him.

If Keane had done something really serious the Irish-United fans wouldn't forgive him.

You spot on there EireBhoy when it was reported that he had walked out after the bust up in training I was furious with him and if he had not gone back i would be on the other side of this argument now. The fact he is a United player has no bearing on my opinion if the same happened Duffers or Robbie Keane ETC I would be just as supportive of them.


Irish1

eirebhoy

Muppet, Keane did say he walked and Irish1, McCarthy did say he sent him home. As I said earlier, I don't believe either are lying.

Disagree 100% if he played for Villa, I'd still think he walked out on his country.

Why have I never heard of one United fan that hates Keane for what he has done? It is probably hard to think of someone as good as Keane playing for Villa (;) ) but most of the Irish-Villa fans would support him.

Villain

Originally posted by eirebhoy
Why have I never heard of one United fan that hates Keane for what he has done? It is probably hard to think of someone as good as Keane playing for Villa (;) ) but most of the Irish-Villa fans would support him.

Funny man, I know quite a few Villa fans who don't back Keane!