Man United without assistant managers...

cournioni

Do you think that Man United's problems could be something to do with not having an assistant manager? In my opinion it could have a very big effect on United's performances this season.

The each time we didn't have an assistant manager for the season Arsenal won the Premiership. When both Steve McClaren and Carlos Queroz came along they added new ideas and United ended up winning the Premiership.

What do you think?

James R

Don't know if its the be-all and end-all of their problems. I mean the whole Magnier/Ferguson thing can't be helping and the Rio suspension hasn't helped their defence either but on the whole I do think Utd need someone good alongside Ferguson.

Every so often Ferguson makes really questionable team selections which I think cost the side. The decision today (vs Leeds) to leave Saha out was a bad one imo. Utd could have done with him, yet he wasn't even on the bench. Midway thru the second half when Utd were desperate for a goal, Ferguson's solution was to throw Roy Keane on! Now Keane is a great player etc but hes hardly likely to score too many!

Solskjaer was then brought on very late I feel. I just think that Ferguson sometimes waits too long to change things and perhaps that is out of pride or indeed ignorance. Someone beside him could give him the nudge he needs to sort things out.

The Muppet

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
Do you think that Man United's problems could be something to do with not having an assistant manager? In my opinion it could have a very big effect on United's performances this season.

The each time we didn't have an assistant manager for the season Arsenal won the Premiership. When both Steve McClaren and Carlos Queroz came along they added new ideas and United ended up winning the Premiership.

What do you think?

I think Utds failing is more to do with missing important players than assistant manager. This year the loss of Ferdinand is obviously the reason for our slump in form all you have to do is look at the goals conceded colum since he went to confirm that.

Then there was the year we got rid of Japp Stamm at the start of the season without getting an adequet replacement. That has to be one of Fergies biggest mistakes and IMO that cost us the league that year.

Goin back further the year Cantona got banned we lost the title by a point and IMO he would definitely have been the differenc that year had he played the full season.

Dustaz

Originally posted by The Muppet

Then there was the year we got rid of Japp Stamm at the start of the season without getting an adequet replacement. That has to be one of Fergies biggest mistakes and IMO that cost us the league that year.

In fairness to Ferguson, he did the right thing in offloading stamm. It seems pretty clear in hindsight that he got wind of stamms drug use and acted on that knowledge. Im not Fergusons biggest fan but I was impressed by that.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Ferguson certainly needs somebody to take him down a few pegs every now and again and it has always been somebody who was not afraid to stand up to him. Whether or not that is the reason that they are no 7 points behind Arsenal is questionable, it is hard to fault a team who have not lost a prem game all season.



BTW, that link of yours does not work, Muppet.

The Muppet

Originally posted by Dustaz
In fairness to Ferguson, he did the right thing in offloading stamm. It seems pretty clear in hindsight that he got wind of stamms drug use and acted on that knowledge. Im not Fergusons biggest fan but I was impressed by that.

I agree if Fergie knew of Stams abuse he was right to get rid of him but he did not replace him with a player of equal quality which IMO was a factor in United not winning the league that year. It is debatable that Fergie knew of stams problems as the popular belief is that he got rid of Stamm because of revelations in Japps book.

Posted By T4TF
Whether or not that is the reason that they are no 7 points behind Arsenal is questionable, it is hard to fault a team who have not lost a prem game all season.

Taking nothing away from Arsenal, they are having an exceptional season but were trailing United in the League when Rio got suspended . We have no way of knowing for definite if United would have conceded the amount of goals they have lately if Rio was still playing but the evidence of first half of the seasons suggests they would not have.

As I said earlier this season when some people were calling for points to be deducted from Arsenal the league should be decided on the pitch and not by the FA disciplinary committee.

BTW, that link of yours does not work, Muppet.

Its a work in progress . Its up and down at the moment, I hope to have it sorted soon.

James R

To be fair I think its a bit premature to be talking of Utd having "problems". I mean at the end of the day they are still second in the table, and they are second to an undefeated side so they're in a good position. Any other club in the league would be happy to be in their position. Ok they haven't played the best in the past 3/4 games but either have Arsenal, the difference is Arsenal have still took 3 points on more occasions but that could change. A month from now we could be saying Arsenal are playing poor and Utd could be on a roll. Its just football really, anything can happen.

Villain

I think Ferguson is the problem, he's made a few bad mistakes in his transfer dealings.

Firstly he sold Beckham (who not only contributed on the pitch but made UTD a lot of money off it) without replacing him, he should have signed Ronaldhino!

IMHO Forlan and Djemba Djemba are not up to UTD standards, and Butt who shouldn't be sold is a long way ahead of them.

Ronaldo poccesses a lot of promise and will produce in a few seasons, Bellion I don't think will never make it as a second choice Striker .

Kleberson is a good player but hasn't settled at all.

I was listening to Today FM yesterday and I think it was David Fairclough who said that he reckoned UTD were sure that Ferdinand wouldn't get a lengthy ban and thats why they didn't buy a defender.

I mean UTD are one of the richest clubs in the world, why wouldn't they buy a Center Half as cover???

crowl

before Rio started his ban...
ManU were top of the table by a point
they were statisically having their best season in a while
they were defending very well (first stutgart match aside)
rio himself had just started on a great run of form
So I am not sure if we can blame it on an assistant manager though I am not saying it is deffo not an influence.

MisterAnarchy

Since United won the Champions league in 99 I think they have been on a downward slide and have never been the same force.
I am a regular viewer of La Liga and Real Madrid are a far superior team to United.
For the last few seasons United have been trying to buy ,'Bargain Bin' players.
Bit players who are not up to the standard at all.
Its a case of square pegs in a round hole.
Ferguson sold Beckham and never fully replaced him.
He bought 2 holding central midfielders to go with his existing 2 ,Keane and Butt and then proceeded to play Philip Neville (an insult to the word professional) as a regular midfielder.
He bought Veron ,a player who is an enigma and will never make it anywhere.
He released Ronny Johnsen because United were too mean to give him a one year contract.
He persists in playing Quentin Fortune in the team.
He paid 30m for a defender who doesnt mark or tackle.
Against Leeds at home he played one man up front and employed a lopsided midfield.
He should have played 2 up front and aim to swamp Leeds .
This 1 man forward line for home games is a joke.
I have been a United fan for 20 years but my patience is breaking.
I am sick of watching them eek out narrow victories over crap opponents .
They consider themselves to be the best club in the world.
United need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Too many bad players playing out of position.
I used to love watching them play .Barcelona 99 was a great moment.
Watching them now I know that they havent a hope of repeating that feat.
Its sad to watch them now..

PHB

I am a regular viewer of La Liga and Real Madrid are a far superior team to United.

- I doubt you'll find many people who disagree with ya


For the last few seasons United have been trying to buy ,'Bargain Bin' players.
Bit players who are not up to the standard at all.

- But you say underneath that he spent 30 mill on a defender? Also cough Van N

Ferguson sold Beckham and never fully replaced him.

- I think Ronaldo is going in become the player that Beckham was with time

He bought 2 holding central midfielders to go with his existing 2 ,Keane and Butt and then proceeded to play Philip Neville (an insult to the word professional) as a regular midfielder.

- First off Phil Neville earned his spot and was playing well. Secondly he's planning for the future, terrified of Keane not having a replacement.

He bought Veron ,a player who is an enigma and will never make it anywhere.

- Yeah I agree, then again so did Chelsea, hey maybe they know something more than we do

He released Ronny Johnsen because United were too mean to give him a one year contract.

- You can't have players that only want a one year contract, espically with fergie who is all about development

He persists in playing Quentin Fortune in the team.

- The alternate being??

He paid 30m for a defender who doesnt mark or tackle.

- Yeah **** player, how many goals have man u conceded since he has been banned?

Against Leeds at home he played one man up front and employed a lopsided midfield.

- Yeah, I guess he made a mistake, shock shock :P
Funnily enough in the first half Man Utd. totally dominated with that tactic

He should have played 2 up front and aim to swamp Leeds .

- Hindsight 20/20

This 1 man forward line for home games is a joke.

- Why?

I have been a United fan for 20 years but my patience is breaking.

- Bye then

I am sick of watching them eek out narrow victories over crap opponents.

- Me too tbh, but I don't blame fergie. The only reason they are where they are now is because of Fergie, if you've been a fan for 20 years you'd remember that.

They consider themselves to be the best club in the world.
United need to wake up and smell the coffee.

- Eh? How can you say that? They probably consider themselves to be thee biggest and richest club in the world, and rightly so

Too many bad players playing out of position.

- Like?

I used to love watching them play .Barcelona 99 was a great moment.
Watching them now I know that they havent a hope of repeating that feat.
Its sad to watch them now..

- Bit of the old glory hunting eh? Yea I remember that game, was great, I jumped up so high I hit my hands off the ceiling, maybe they'll repeat it in another 10 years hopefully.

IMO they are still the most exciting team to watch, they score lots and lots of goals

crowl

MisterAnarchy I disagree with u on so many points.

For the last few seasons United have been trying to buy ,'Bargain Bin' players.

In case u didnt notice Alex has bought and is looking into young players strengthening the squad for the future...Ronaldo,Miller,Robben,kleberson,howard,djemba-djemba,saha. This needed to be done as the team was getting old and a new generation of players had to be brought in.

Philip Neville (an insult to the word professional)

Phil Neville has improved a lot this season and has performed excellently.

He bought Veron ,a player who is an enigma and will never make it anywhere.

While Veron did not fit in with Manu he was bought on the basis of his amazing form with lazio, also when fergerson saw he was not fitting in he sold him and got a decent enough price.

He paid 30m for a defender who doesnt mark or tackle.

Once again I totally disagree with u. Rio is still young and was starting to form a real parntership with silvestre in central defence before his ban.

I am sick of watching them eek out narrow victories over crap opponents .

This is how u win trophies and is what arsenal could not do last season.

I used to love watching them play

Its sad to watch them now..

Are u the sort of 'fan' who stops supporting a team when they lose some games. I suppose u wiil start supporting real madrid at the end of the season if they do better than manu.

MisterAnarchy

I am a football fan first and then a Man Utd fan.
I suppose I am a bit of a traditionalist.
I like to see football played the way it should be.
Passing movements ,intricate skills ,players beating their markers,dribbling.
I have supported United through the bad times when Liverpool were the top dogs.
Throughout the nineties I loved watching the attacking flowing football United played.
Since 99 I feel that the team is for the most part only going through the motions.
They think that they can raise their game for the big matches and can go along on autopilot for the rest .
The team has lost its width and the one man up front does not suit Utd.
I understand that in away European games against the likes of AC Milan ,and Real the one man attack line is a viable option.
However playing one man upfront against Leeds at home is tantamount to madness.
Ferguson has repeatedly tinkered with this idea and it has backfired a number of times.
Real are the benchmark but I honestly believe that Utd are getting worse every season.
They lack the cutting edge of old and are becoming predictable .
The off field shenagins at Utd are not helping but if United are to win the Champions league,the ultimate goal ,changes will need to be made.
In reply to Philip neville I have very little to say about him.
He is a woefully limited player who is perhaps better without the ball than with it.
He is a destructive influence in the United team and any comparisons to Keane are preposterous.
If you offered him to any of the top 10 teams in the Premiership for a swap with one of their midfielders you would be laughed at.
Ferdinand and Silvestre were doing well until the ban but I think 30m was twice what he was worth.If United are to prove they are the 'best ' club in the world they will have to act like it.
Buy top quality players and win the Champions league again.
I have a bad feeling that it will be the same old story this season.
Almost won it but maybe next year.

The Muppet

Originally posted by MisterAnarchy

I have a bad feeling that it will be the same old story this season.
Almost won it but maybe next year.

Is This Manchester United you are talking about?

Big Ears

PHB you claim that man utd are the most exciting team to watch bit i have to disagree , (of course u will always think the mosy exciting team is the one u support , i suppose thats why u support them ) Newcastle and arsenal are much more exciting sides and are a joy to watch.

even i have to question so of fergusons decisions of late :eek: .

the buys of : forlan , djemba djemba , bellion , kleberson , are questionable going on their performances so far . although i do think kleberson will come good.

veron was a really good player at lazio but has never adjusted to the premeirship

£30 million was way too much for ferdinand (woodgate would have been a better cheaper option )

some of man utd's tactics of late have been poor and if they are kept up i can only see them coming 2nd in the league at best

thats just $0.02 of mine

James R

No manager is going to get every transfer decision right. Forlan hasn't been a complete waste. Ok he hasn't set the world alight either but hes not THAT bad. He'd get on for most Premiership teams I'd say. Hes certainly better than Jeffers and Rebrov etc who proved a total waste.

Djemba Djemba is too early to say. hes still very young and missed a lot of time with his mum being ill. I have a feeling he'll come good.

Kleberson is too early to judge too. I read today where he had major settling in probs up until lately, then he was out for a good bit with a dislocated shoulder.

Big Ears

forlan would sruggle to get in to most premiership sides .

_blank_

Originally posted by MisterAnarchy
Since 99 I feel that the team is for the most part only going through the motions.

Exactly why Dwight was sold....no one else is?...name one more player who is doing this?

Originally posted by MisterAnarchy
The team has lost its width and the one man up front does not suit Utd.

What does this mean?.....Doesn't SUIT United?...what suits United is what suits the manager. He picks the team, end of.

OK, I'll agree with lost its width, but all that will change with Ollie coming back, don't forget, when Uinted won the league last season, it was Ollie who played most of the games wide right after Xmas....NOT Beckham.

Originally posted by MisterAnarchy
However playing one man upfront against Leeds at home is tantamount to madness.
Ferguson has repeatedly tinkered with this idea and it has backfired a number of times.

Won the League last season with these tactics?

Originally posted by MisterAnarchy
Ferdinand and Silvestre were doing well until the ban but I think 30m was twice what he was worth

I think you are forgetting that Ferdinand was bought BEFORE the bottom fell out of the transfer market, OK it seems now this was a "rip-off", but then it was a fair price, for one of the best defenders in the world.

Originally posted by MisterAnarchy
I am a football fan first and then a Man Utd fan.

Says it all really. Who do you support then?

United don't need or want your kind making comments about the Manager or Players.

So keep your nose out

Dustaz

Originally posted by seansouth
United don't need or want your kind making comments about the Manager or Players.

rofl. Sums it up

MisterAnarchy

]

what suits United is what suits the manager. He picks the team, end of

Is that so ?
The manager is infallible and all knowing is he ?
If that was the case no manager would ever be sacked .

United don't need or want your kind making comments about the Manager or Players.

Ha...ha
I have a brain unlike so many so called fans who are happy just to jump on the bandwagon and regurgitate the MUTV propaganda about UTD.
I made some valid points in relation to the demise in the team.
I am entitled to my opinion.
It is a democracy you know..

doozerjack

When you win 8 league titles in 11 seasons, the manager is obviously doing far more things right than wrong, but anyway . . .

. . . back to the original question, the lack of assistant manager has always posed a problem when it arises, but certainly the absence of Ferdinand is the major factor in the 7-point gap quickly emerging.

Utd were top, as pointed out, when Rio last played, and had the best defensive record in the league.

Since his departure, the defence has been a joke, and the goals against have been embarrassing. Days like that against Leeds happen, Utd should have buried them with the chances they had. But Smith's goal was down to shockingly weak defending.

With respect to "the problems", Utd are still the strongest team in the PL.
Its a superb achievement to go so long unbeaten, but Arsenal are far from unbeatable. They have been quite average and even poor on occassions this season, and have rode their luck to maintain that unbeaten record. The Utd-Arse game last Sept is one example, but there are plenty of others where Arsenal looked similarly clueless. They have unquestionable class in attack that can save them games, but theres no evidence yet to say they have overcome the jelly backbone that cost them last year. When the pressure hits in the closing weeks, the league is most likely going to rest on whether or not that Utd defense is stabilised. While this is highly unlikely (given Silvestre injury, and Neville suspension), its hardly a long-term problem.

This is not likely to be Utd's season, but the "problems" are mole-hills. Come August, that 8-month ban will be finished, and Utd will have a very strong squad of experienced, and young talent. Arsenal will be trying to settle into life without Bergkamp and Keown. Both Chelsea and Liverpool will be either trying to break in a new manager, or survive the pressure of an impending sacking. Newcastle, while everyone's 2nd favourite team, will do no more than challenge for 4th place.

Is there really a problem?

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by doozerjack
They have unquestionable class in attack that can save them games, but theres no evidence yet to say they have overcome the jelly backbone that cost them last year. When the pressure hits in the closing weeks, the league is most likely going to rest on whether or not that Utd defense is stabilised. While this is highly unlikely (given Silvestre injury, and Neville suspension), its hardly a long-term problem.

lol?

Jelly backbone - hmm. Let's look at Arsenal's results in the crunch games this season:

Inter 1 - 5 Arsenal
Arsenal 2 - 0 Lokomotiv Moscow
Arsenal 2 - 1 Chelsea
Arsenal 2 - 1 Chelsea
Chelsea 1 - 2 Arsenal
Manchester United 0 - 0 Arsenal

And of course, yes, the league now depends on Man Utds defence, cos like, the only variable on where the title goes is how well Man Utd play.

This is not likely to be Utd's season, but the "problems" are mole-hills. Come August, that 8-month ban will be finished, and Utd will have a very strong squad of experienced, and young talent. Arsenal will be trying to settle into life without Bergkamp and Keown.

Newsflash - Keown isn't even 3rd choice Arsenal CB anymore. Bergkamp may still be there, and even if he isn't there will be plenty of "experienced, and young talent" to replace him.

I don't think Chelsea are just going to fade away either, sorry.

_blank_

How in the name christ has a thread about United's lack of assistant manager turned out to be about Arsenal's record in crunch games?


Someone please tell me that...

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by seansouth
How in the name christ has a thread about United's lack of assistant manager turned out to be about Arsenal's record in crunch games?


Someone please tell me that...

Someone started spewing shite about Arsenal in order to try and make United's problems seem smaller.

jank

i said it before and ill say it again
too many average players at utd
got slated for saying that in previous posts but matbe people will look at it on a different light now

forlan who??

johnor

I dont think there is alot between United and Arsenal. United are going through a transitional period, fergie knows he neds to bring in new younger players and intergrate them into the current squad. I think there is a bit of a divison between the young and the old at united. Maybe an proper new assistant could help bring the squad together but i doubt it will happen this year.

When you compare the two squads,(Arsenal and united) there is very little between them. With the expection of maybe Rio gone and Campbell playing.

john

James R

I would disagree about Utd having too many average players. Utd have suffered a lot of injuries this season which hasn't helped their cause. Thats no excuse but it is a fact.

Forlan is by no means a world beater but hes no more average than other players in his position (i.e. 3rd/4th choice striker). Kanu/Jeffers and perhaps even Wiltord don't do much more for Arsenal than Forlan does for Utd. Baros/Pongolle haven't done too much either although they have got age on their side. Hes also done more than the likes of Postiga. All I'm saying is that while Forlan may not be the best player in the world, up there with the Van Nistelrooys and Henrys, hes certainly not the worst in his category.

He doesn't play in the box enough either to get a high amount of goals imo!

doozerjack

---

Originally posted by kaids
Jelly backbone - hmm. Let's look at Arsenal's results in the crunch games this season:

---

The crunch games come in the final weeks when 1/3 of the league are fighting relegation, and another 1/3 are fighting for a European place.

I believe Wenger has only managed to inspire his team once in the last five seasons at that time of year, hence the jelly backbone reference.

---

Originally posted by James R
I would disagree about Utd having too many average players. Utd have suffered a lot of injuries this season which hasn't helped their cause. Thats no excuse but it is a fact.

---

A fact and also the answer to the original question.

kida

3 draws for Arsenal and 3 wins for United = 1 point behind - Its not over yet.

Arsenal have yet to prove they have the bottle when things go against them.

kida

7 points is a lot at this stage of the season, but it was 8 at the start of March last year, albeit we had a game in hand, and we finished 5 in front.

United traiditionally perform at their best when up against it.

astrofool

Arsenal should win the title this season, anything less would be a complete disaster for them. (worse than throwing it away last season even).

Arsenal this year are performing much much better against the other big teams than they did last season, but not doing as well against the mid to lower table sides.

s8n

Someone started spewing ****e about Arsenal in order to try and make United's problems seem smaller.

hahahahahahahahaha......