It is time for the IRA to disband.

monument

Originally posted by Cork
Michael Mc Dowell has said

Hmm... I wonder what's just around the corner???

Would there be any reason for Mc Dowell to bring this up about now? I wonder.

In a fare statement one would say “it’s time for all to disband” or “it’s time for the agreement to get back on track”.

Johnny 5

Originally posted by dloob
Ohh the shinners are smart.
Any time something comes up in the comunity that can win votes they are there.
Be it bin charges or dog wardens.
What ever is popular they are stuck in the middle.

Do you ever think they might just be acting like a political party? What do you expect them to do, stand by and keep schtum?
Check out their manifesto, they represent the working class, who are the people most affected by the bin charges. They are socialist and anti war, that's why they were involved in the anti-war demonstrations. This is all laid out prior to anything happening and action on the streets must be commended as actually living by that manifesto and not turning it into a bunch of lies like FF/PD's did.

Originally posted by dloob
What I hate the most is in the elections like when that crook won in kerry whats his face the gun runner,
they wave our flag in our faces as if it was exclusive to them.
Thanks for letting me live in your county lads.
But if you do ever come to power I'm on the first plane out.
At least our current set of crooks aren't murders.

Did they actually wave it in your face or is this your bias thinking that that's what they were doing? To me, they were celebrating victory in an Irish election, to you it was something very different, people like you can't see it the other way.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Oh and for those who were very quick to judge -- the IRA have issued a statement in An Poblacht saying the kidnapping was not commissioned by the IRA

In 1996, while the 'RA were on ceasefire, four of their men murdered sorry, "manslaughtered", Detective Garda Gerry McCabe just after they'd robbed a post office in Adare. For a week afterwards, Sinn Féin claimed they had not sanctioned the robbery, and even claimed at one stage they were not IRA men. Of course, the reality was completely different: they were IRA men, and the robbery most certainly was an IRA job. Back to 2003/04 - we've had Gerry Adams, Arthur Morgan et al being photographed smiling with those men jailed for killing a Garda in cold blood.

This is just one example. Basically, Sinn Féin/IRA have lied before and they'll lie again. They even have the nerve to call it "Lying for Ireland". It's not an Ireland I want anything to do with. Although I have even less sympathy for a RIRA man than an IRA man, in this current incident, where did the alleged abductee get the 94 stitches?

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Johnny 5
They are socialist and anti war, that's why they were involved in the anti-war demonstrations.

Dream on. The fact that they have a habit of murdering people that disagree with them prove that they are fascist. The fact that they still have a private terrorist "army" that are directly responsible for the murder of well over 1500 people proves that they are anything but Anti-War. Only the most naive would believe that the Shinners joined in last year because they were anti-war. They joined in simply to gather a few more potential votes.

Johnny 5

Originally posted by ReefBreak
This is just one example. Basically, Sinn Féin/IRA have lied before and they'll lie again. They even have the nerve to call it "Lying for Ireland". It's not an Ireland I want anything to do with. Although I have even less sympathy for a RIRA man than an IRA man, in this current incident, where did the alleged abductee get the 94 stitches?

Sorry I don't recall them ever saying the phrase "Lying for Ireland". Isn't it weird that Bobby Tohill isn't actually going to press charges, and the charge of IRA membership has been dropped? Isn't it weird the way the PSNI were on the scene within seconds? Was there a crime committed at all? These men will walk away from court but the political ramifications of this PSU (police service of unionism) manufactured sabotage will continue to act as an excuse for unionists to avoid powersharing.

Dream on. The fact that they have a habit of murdering people that disagree with them prove that they are fascist. The fact that they still have a private terrorist "army" that are directly responsible for the murder of well over 1500 people proves that they are anything but Anti-War. Only the most naive would believe that the Shinners joined in last year because they were anti-war. They joined in simply to gather a few more potential votes.

The IRA never fought any elections, they don't have a mandate. SF do, and by living up to that mandate you think this is wrong? It is refreshing to see a PP do such a thing nowadays.

Michael Mc Dowell has said

Michael McDowell has said alot of things. Soundbites are all well and good especially at a time of increased pressure at the ballot box, but he has yet to produce ANY evidence to substantiate his now weekly rants.

Gearoid

In 1996, while the 'RA were on ceasefire, four of their men murdered sorry, "manslaughtered", Detective Garda Gerry McCabe just after they'd robbed a post office in Adare.

True that should never have happened, a terrible act. I heard somewhere though that he fired first anyone else hear that?

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Gearoid
True that should never have happened, a terrible act. I heard somewhere though that he fired first anyone else hear that?

You heard wrong. They were sitting in their car, when they were murdered in cold-blood by the same people that some senior Sinn Féin representatives were happy to be photographed with over the last few months.

Gearoid

Don't take it so personally Reef It's just a question, and you're not the only person I was asking.

sceptre

Originally posted by Johnny 5
The IRA never fought any elections, they don't have a mandate. SF do, and by living up to that mandate

I've heard that word with a number of different definitions with regard to Sinn Fein. Just for clarification, can you tell me/us what that mandate is, how extensive you'd regard it and exactly what it means?

(it'll save smoe time in the long run)

Cork

Originally posted by sceptre
The phrase (as reported on Today FM) used was "was not authorised by...".

Partly playing devil's advocate, I notice the phrase used was not "The IRA didn't do this" or "it wasn't one of our members as far as we can tell". Might be the difference between the army council saying "don't do it Mikey, we're on ceasefire" and "er, I didn't hear that Mikey and if you do it I'll say I didn't order it or /authorise/ it"
(or it could just be that it was nothing to do with them but I'll wait for some hard evidence on that one)

Depends on exactly what a "cease fire" is though - would a current member of the IRA who hasn't repudiated his membership or been kicked out, running around Belfast with an IRA-owned AK47 shooting people be classified as a break of the ceasefire?

SF/IRA also denied being involved in the shooting of 2 Gardai in Adare.

This is the party who went along to the Anti War protests.

The IRA has no gone away. There is no justification for punishment beatings. How do punishment beatings advance the cause of a United Ireland?

GeorgeBush

.

Yes they make alot of money off the petrol racket and as well as fags and dodgy clothes but supplying drugs to kids throughout Ireland?

Have you any evidence of this?

If so what drugs?

The provos led by Gerry Adams and Mc Guiness are guilty of indirectly selling drugs to kids in order to fund their war machine and Irish people are guility off putting up with this mafia type organisation and voting for terrorists in the Dail.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
How do punishment beatings advance the cause of a United Ireland?

Given that you've quoted me in your post, are you asking me that question?

If so, it won't, it's nothing whatever to do with anything I posted.

Johnny_the_fox

Originally posted by GeorgeBush
.

The provos led by Gerry Adams and Mc Guiness are guilty of indirectly selling drugs to kids in order to fund their war machine and Irish people are guility off putting up with this mafia type organisation and voting for terrorists in the Dail.

The IRA are against drug... so why would they sell them... :rolleyes:

A group using an IRA cover name has ordered nine people to get out of south Armagh or face execution over allegations of drugs dealing, it emerged yesterday

Read Me

monument

Originally posted by Cork
SF/IRA also denied being involved in the shooting of 2 Gardai in Adare.

Could you please proved the location where they have denied such? (thanks)

Originally posted by Cork
This is the party who went along to the Anti War protests.

So, eight years ago SF told the IRA bank robbers to make sure they kill some Garda when they’re robbing the bank?

– sorry about the way I’ve phrased that, but it looks as if you’re trying to imply such.

Originally posted by Cork
There is no justification for punishment beatings.

I agree, as I don’t believe in any type of violent punishment. But then again in my ideal world solders wouldn’t be shooting innocent people, besides there been no need for solders in my ideal world.

Originally posted by Cork
How do punishment beatings advance the cause of a United Ireland?

As I said I don’t agree with punishment beatings, I also don’t agree with one sided comments like that.

However to broaden and answer your question – punishing someone so that they will fall in line with a certain believe or way is (and has been) commonplace through out the world.

[That’s not to say I agree or disagree with any ‘believe or way’ which is or has been commonplace, or that I agree or disagree with any way such has or is implemented.]

If we’re talking about paramilitary violence, it is worth noting that Loyalist violence rising has been on the rise.

monument

Originally posted by GeorgeBush
[BThe provos led by Gerry Adams and Mc Guiness [/B]

FFS

It is one thing for Bertie to say - with out evidence - that Gerry Adams is/was an IRA member, but to say - with out evidence - that Gerry Adams and Mc Guiness are leading the PIRA is laughably.

AmenToThat

Originally posted by GeorgeBush
.

The provos led by Gerry Adams and Mc Guiness are guilty of indirectly selling drugs to kids in order to fund their war machine and Irish people are guility off putting up with this mafia type organisation and voting for terrorists in the Dail.

What evidence is there to suggest that the IRA are heavily involved in drug dealing in ireland?
Fair enough it could be argued that cigarettes and drink are drugs but I think we know what kind of drugs are being refered to here!

Proves are alot of things but drug dealers isnt one of them.

20 Times 20 Times

Originally posted by AmenToThat
What evidence is there to suggest that the IRA are heavily involved in drug dealing in ireland?
Fair enough it could be argued that cigarettes and drink are drugs but I think we know what kind of drugs are being refered to here!

Proves are alot of things but drug dealers isnt one of them.

wanna bet .... a lot of so call punishment beatings are done because small time drug dealers are dealing on there patches lets be honest we all know this

bonkey

Lads, if this is just turning into a "they're scum" Punch-and-Judy show, there isn't really much of interest or new to discuss.

Is anyone willing to try and tackle the point I raised in my last post?

jc

ReefBreak

So, rather than just discussing if you think the IRA should disband from your own point of view, shouldn't we be discussing "what reasons could you give the IRA as to why they should disband".

The obvious reasons come to mind first - we live in a civilised, democratic society where there are no place private terrorist armies (rebublican or loyalist). Then remind them about the end of conflict. And of course the fact that nationalists have achieved far more through dialogue than they ever achieved through murdering people.

But none of it would matter. Sinn Fein/IRA never listened to the will of the people when they had 1% of the popular support on the island, so there is no way they will listen when they have ??% (don't know the figure) of the support.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by monument
Could you please proved the location where they have denied such? (thanks)

So, eight years ago SF told the IRA bank robbers to make sure they kill some Garda when they’re robbing the bank?

Go down to your local library, find the newspaper archives for 1996, and you will read the denials by Sinn Féin during the week after the robbery/murder. There was also a report by a leading Irish journalist a few years ago that the proceeds from that robbery ended up in Sinn Féin HQ in Parnell Square, Dublin. Unfortunately, he was reporting from a third party so couldn't provide proof, but I wouldn't put it past them.

mike65

Originally posted by monument
Could you please proved the location where they have denied such? (thanks)

http://www.limerick-leader.ie/issues/20000805/news04.html

This from
www.coiste.ie/castlerea.htm

While the IRA at first disclaimed knowledge of the operation this position was reversed a week afterwards following an initial inquiry. All five men were accepted and treated as IRA prisoners while in Portlaoise prison and they were moved to Castlerea as part of the IRA unit. They continue to be seen as IRA prisoners by the Dublin government and the prison authorities.

The IRA denied Enniskillen too. SF deined The Columbia Three exisited.

This from www.sinnfein.ie/peace/speech/13

We in Sinn Féin understand the grave difficulties presented by the current situation to the Irish government and to Mr Bruton. The killing of Garda Gerry McCabe in Adare, County Limerick was totally wrong. The IRA said in their statement on 14 June that those who carried out these shootings did so to the detriment of the republican cause.

Following this tragic incident there have been widespread arrests and a number of people have been beaten in Garda custody. In times of highly charged emotions there could be be a temptation to excuse attempts to secure convictions through extracting confessions by force. As in the past this has proved a dangerous practice which has led to serious miscarraiges of justice.

Mike.

Johnny 5

Originally posted by monument
If we’re talking about paramilitary violence, it is worth noting that Loyalist violence rising has been on the rise.

Don't waste your energy, no one here addresses loyalist violence. Try a search to prove my point.

Originally posted by ReefBreak
There was also a report by a leading Irish journalist a few years ago that the proceeds from that robbery ended up in Sinn Féin HQ in Parnell Square, Dublin. Unfortunately, he was reporting from a third party so couldn't provide proof, but I wouldn't put it past them.

See this is the exact thing which annoys me so much about Irish journalism. Despite there being absolutely no proof to this, the journalist reports it anyway. What's to stop him writing an article that Osama Bin Laden is living in Cork?!

AS for Berties comments, it's an election year so his ramblings based on nothing are too be expected.

I too agree that Punishment Beatings have to stop, but when I turn on the news in the morning and hear a drug dealer has been shot in both ankles, I don't suddenly come over all sympathetic. If there was an accountable police force that actually arrested drug dealers instead of instigating political sabotage then maybe we'd get somewhere.

monument

http://www.limerick-leader.ie/issues/20000805/news04.html
"It was a criminal act carried out by individuals and has no bearing on the Good Friday Agreement," said Garda Browne.

I think people here are deliberately blurring “the IRA did it” with members of the IRA did it independently, which would be the same thing as saying “’GANG A’ robs bank” (fiction) when what happened was members of the gang robed the bank independently.

Police forces have to prove a link between gang member’s actions and their boss telling them to carry out any action before they can accuse and convict the gang boss.

With out proof, it’s speculation.

But maybe the IRA have owned up for this one? Or the link may have been proven?

By all means correct me if I’m wrong.

Cork

Originally posted by AmenToThat
What evidence is there to suggest that the IRA are heavily involved in drug dealing in ireland?
Fair enough it could be argued that cigarettes and drink are drugs but I think we know what kind of drugs are being refered to here!

Proves are alot of things but drug dealers isnt one of them.

How does the IRA earn its money. Does it not have fuel rackets?

How much does this cost the Irish exchequer?

Is or has SF/IRA been inolved in tax fraud?

The Official Unionsts seem to be getting out of the review of the good friday agreement because of doubts over SF/IRA.

I really think that if the SF/IRA wanted to build trust with the unionist population in Northern Ireland - they have made an absolute mess of things.

Johnny 5

Yes it is involved in fuel rackets, no one on this thread denied that. You've turned 'AmenToThat's posting completely around.

SF have done alot to reach out to the unionist community, unfortunately, all these attempts have been rubbished by the Unionist leaders.

Remember Alex Maskey as Lord Mayor, he did more than any other lord mayor to quell sectarian tensions in the city. He was the first republican to lay a wreath at the cenotaph, an action any right minded person would see as commendable only for the DUP's Sammy Wilson to come say he was making a 'mockery of the occasion.'

When he was democratically elected mayor, sure didn't the unionist parties get in a huff and refuse to vote in a deputy mayor. He did the whole term on his own.

I don't see how Sinn Féin or the IRA have made a mess of things. The only mess that was made was created superficially by Unionism.

Cork

Originally posted by Johnny 5

I don't see how Sinn Féin or the IRA have made a mess of things. The only mess that was made was created superficially by Unionism.

IRA people were released from jail under the Good Friday Agreement - yet the IRA are still in existance with Arms and running rackets?

How does this inspire confidence?

SF/IRA rant on about justice but how do IRA punishment beatings dispense justice?

How much are these rackets costing the Irish exchequer?

If the IRA are on ceasefire - why are they recruiting?

SF/IRA have done very little to build confidence with unionsts.

mneylon

Cork - read back over the last few pages *carefully*
You're obviously missing the entire point that some people have been trying to get across ie. the total imbalance of media coverage and Unionist instransigence.
It is plain to any outside observer that the unionists are always on the look out for any possible excuse not to move forward with the GFA

Johnny 5

Originally posted by Cork
IRA people were released from jail under the Good Friday Agreement - yet the IRA are still in existance with Arms and running rackets?
There is a big difference between running rackets and murdering people. All loyalists terrorists were released from jail, but they still hold on to their arms, and are murdering at that. How about we deal with them first?

How does this inspire confidence?
It doesn't, but 10 years of ceasefire should.

SF/IRA rant on about justice but how do IRA punishment beatings dispense justice?
SF and the IRA are not one, Gerry Adams doesn't go out at night with a balaclava on and dispense 'street justice'. The punishment beatings will stop when there is a police service to take care of nationalist citizens.

How much are these rackets costing the Irish exchequer?
No idea, but they're bound to cost something

If the IRA are on ceasefire - why are they recruiting?
No, they're not. The Deputy Chief Constable of the PSNI has been on record as saying this. Where is your evidence?

SF/IRA have done very little to build confidence with unionsts.

I beg to differ.

What has Unionism been doing to build confidence with nationalists?
NOTHING!

EDIT: My individual replies are inside the quote box, I apologise that they're very hard to pick out.

mike65

Originally posted by monument
Police forces have to prove a link between gang member’s actions and their boss telling them to carry out any action before they can accuse and convict the gang boss.

With out proof, it’s speculation.

But maybe the IRA have owned up for this one? Or the link may have been proven?

By all means correct me if I’m wrong.

Monument read this from
http://www.coiste.ie/castlerea.htm it seems pretty clear to me! coiste are not at all anti-IRA/SF. They're very pro IRA/SF in fact.

While the IRA at first disclaimed knowledge of the operation this position was reversed a week afterwards following an initial inquiry. All five men were accepted and treated as IRA prisoners while in Portlaoise prison and they were moved to Castlerea as part of the IRA unit. They continue to be seen as IRA prisoners by the Dublin government and the prison authorities.

Mike.

Cork

There is a big difference between running rackets and murdering people.

They are both unacceptable.

SF and the IRA are not one, Gerry Adams doesn't go out at night with a balaclava on and dispense 'street justice'. The punishment beatings will stop when there is a police service to take care of nationalist citizens.

Are SF not the political wing of the IRA?

The punishment beatings are not acceptable. Who appoints these thugs to dispense street justice? SF/IRA go on about miscarriages of justice - who appointed these thugs Judge & Jury?

If the IRA are on ceasefire - why are they recruiting?

If they are on cease fire for 10 years - No IRA member should be under 25?

This was a point made on the news this morning.