It is time for the IRA to disband.

Zombrex

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Even if you write it in bold its still not right! I just can’t fathom why anyone would believe that the British and Unionists ever needed an excuse to drag their feet on civil rights. 800 years etc.

As for the British government! They would of suddenly realised that the human rights issues needed to be addressed in the north!!!

Your post shows a complete lack of any understand of any civil rights movement in the last 100 years.

It has nothing to do with convincing the government to implement proper civil rights. It has everything to do with convincing public opinion to pressure the government to implement civil rights. If the question of Catholic civil rights was an issue that would have cost the UK government an election it would have been sorted out in a few months.

Instead, what the IRA did, was convince the entire voting public of the UK, that the Catholics in the North were intent on war, and that they would kill each and every one of them if they had too. The sympathy and support for the Catholic civil rights movement crashed and burned. It also meant that any government had the perfect excuse when even the smallest of public opinion pressured them on the Catholic civil rights :- “We do not negotiate under terror.”

Both King and Gandhi knew this when they started their civil rights campaigns. They knew that the only way to get real freedom as quickly as possible was to take the high road, and not lower themselves to the violence of their oppressors. If you are in Memphis and you see on the news a police man battering a defenceless black man your outrage is directed towards the policeman. If you are in London and you see a police man in a gun battle with an IRA bomber you hope the police man shoots him dead so he won't have a chance to kill your children. Even Mandela said that it was with heavy heart that they took up arms, and that situation was a million miles from the situation in the North and was nothing like the terror campaign the IRA went on.

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
How can you come to this conclusion? The only difference I can think of is the skin colour of the oppressed.

Well then I can only assume you know nothing about South Africa

gurramok

And BTW the North was never anything like South Africa

Wrong.
State terror was used in both situations to oppress the civilian populations whether it was by the police/army.
The killing was on a far greater scale than in N.I.
Same can be said for the various terror groups that sprung up in both places.

Mighty_Mouse

[/QUOTE]Your post shows a complete lack of any understand of any civil rights movement in the last 100 years.[/QUOTE]

And yours a complete lack of any understanding of the IRA/republican movement !

If the question of Catholic civil rights was an issue that would have cost the UK government an election it would have been sorted out in a few months

Wasn't gonna happen

Even Mandela said that it was with heavy heart that they took up arms, and that situation was a million miles from the situation in the North and was nothing like the terror campaign the IRA went on

When and where did Mandela say that the situation in the SA was nothing like hte terror campaign the IRA went on?

Cork

And yours a complete lack of any understanding of the IRA/republican movement !

IRA know absolutely nothing about the true meaning of republicanism. What is needed to know about a bunch of thugs going around with baseball bats?

Does anybody know about the fuel rackets, ciggerette smuggling or activity at Dublin Port?

How much money does the IRA generate?
Where does it get its funds from?
Who is on the army council?

If anybody has an understanding of the IRA - could they answer these questions?

Villain

Well Bertie and McDowell seem to know a lot so ask them.

Although if you ask for evidence they will probably just say, go away!

Cork

Does the IRA ask for evidence when the run around with baseball bats?

How does the IRA fund its activities.

Gerry Adams stated that it has not gone away.

The row between Mr McDowell and Sinn Féin erupted last month when he described their calls for human rights as “vomit-inducing” while he insisted the IRA was continuing to carry out punishment beatings.

Does Gerry Adams deny that punishments beatings are going on?

It is about time that politicans down here took the "soft focus" away from SF/IRA.

How do you think the IRA fundraises?

David-[RLD]-

i'm sure someone probably mentioned this before, but why bother moaning about the IRA when there are far worse organisations out there i.e. RIRA, UVF, UDA etc.

it might be smart to get rid of the far more dangerous and extremist organisations first before trying to get the IRA to disband. y'know, the ones that AREN'T on a cease fire?

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
Does the IRA ask for evidence when the run around with baseball bats?

How does the IRA fund its activities.

Gerry Adams stated that it has not gone away.

Please provide proof that the IRA and not breakaway groups are responsible for these beatings.

He certianly did say it, whats wrong with that, would you rather he lied??

Originally posted by Cork

Does Gerry Adams deny that punishments beatings are going on?

It is about time that politicans down here took the "soft focus" away from SF/IRA.

How do you think the IRA fundraises?

I doubth he does, I don't know how they fundraise, maybe you could offer some Facts or Proof and tell us!!

Oh and excellent point David-[RLD]-, problem is most people here can't tell the difference between the groups.

Cork

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
i'm sure someone probably mentioned this before, but why bother moaning about the IRA when there are far worse organisations out there i.e. RIRA, UVF, UDA etc.

it might be smart to get rid of the far more dangerous and extremist organisations first before trying to get the IRA to disband. y'know, the ones that AREN'T on a cease fire?

This is a good point. Illegal armies are wrong from what ever side of the community they come from.

The IRA are still recruiting, still involved in punishment beatings and involved in rackets.

Are they one "dangerous and extremist organisation"?

Yes they are.

They still hold a large cache of arms.

If they don't make a movement on such arms - they should be simply excluded from the NI assembly.

But hopefully they'll come to an agreement with the DUP.

The UK and Irish government seem to be fed up with the situation. It is up to Ian & Gerry to get things going.

The IRA with its arms is a big issue in the stalled peace process.

Cork

Originally posted by irish1



I doubth he does, I don't know how they fundraise, maybe you could offer some Facts or Proof and tell us!!

SF were an organisation that could not find the words to condemn the Warrington bomb - planting a bomb in a trash can.

Gerry Adams only last week called for the release of the those found GUILTY of the MURDER of Gerry McCabe.

What members of SF are on the army council of the IRA?

SF/IRA have a few realitys to face. It has some decisions to make over the next while.

The Assembly in NI has to be put back on track with or without SF/IRA.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
The IRA are still recruiting, still involved in punishment beatings and involved in rackets.

What members of SF are on the army council of the IRA?

Please offer some proof??

Anything would be a start

Cork

Originally posted by irish1
Please offer some proof??

Anything would be a start

Check out the reports from our Justice Minister.

Where did Gerry Adams get his proof that the IRA had not gone away????

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
If they don't make a movement on such arms - they should be simply excluded from the NI assembly.

Firstly, the IRA are not part of the NI assembly.

Secondly, because someone is bound to argue that there is no distinction between SF and the IRA, it should be pointed out that there was a "roadmap" agreed upon by both sides, and the notion of excluding any party because its terrorist affiliate had not handed over weapons by some specific deadline was not included.

Not only that, but when the parties agreed to renegotiate, and a decomissioning agreement was reached, and the IRA subsequently performed some decomissioning in compliance with the terms of the agreement, what happened? The Unionists complained that it wasn't acceptable.

So lets drop this horse-sh1t about "beginning to move" because thats such a deliberately vague term that it means nothing and everything.

We're back to the same malarkey of a few nights ago where people insisted in complete decomissioning/disbanding, only to admit that what was needed wasn't what they were asking for (because "complete" anything could never be proven) but rather a significant move towards it, only to turn around and start using the absolute terms again when re-iterating what they were looking for.

The IRA with its arms is a big issue in the stalled peace process.

Yes it is - one amongst many.

Singling it out will not move the peace-process forward - it will only convince those that see issues on both sides that one side is getting preferential treatment.

Again, we saw this with the whole previous iteration of the decomissioning fiasco - the peace-process was stalled to force the issue, at which point an agreement was reached.....but it was those who stalled the agreement who then complained - once again - that the agreement they had signed on to was no longer acceptable, just as they did with the original terms of the GFA itself concerning decomissioning.

How many times will the Unionists make agreements concerning decomissioning that they later discard as unacceptable? And why is it that the Republicans are held to blame every time this happens?

jc

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
Check out the reports from our Justice Minister.

Where did Gerry Adams get his proof that the IRA had not gone away????

Oh so if the Minister says so, it must be through! lol

Thats one of the funniest posts who have ever written.

The IRA are on a ceasefire they have decommisioned some weapons so I'd imagine they would still have to be around to that wouldn't you.:rolleyes:

Cork

Originally posted by irish1
Oh so if the Minister says so, it must be through! lol

Thats one of the funniest posts who have ever written.

The IRA are on a ceasefire they have decommisioned some weapons so I'd imagine they would still have to be around to that wouldn't you.:rolleyes:

I would believe the Minister for Justice before Adams and whAT ever associations he claims or denies he is leader of.

There is no place is politics for an a political party with associations to an illegal army.

No party will torch them with a 10 foot pole untill movement is made with decommissioning and disbandment.

If it will take starting up the NI assembly without them or bringing back section 31.

Illegal Armys won't be tolerated as a bargaining chip to win concessions.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
I would believe the Minister for Justice before Adams and whAT ever associations he claims or denies he is leader of.

But theres no proof, I was big enough to retract a statement that I couldn't prove but don't seem to be willing to do so

Cork

Should we not consider past activities by SF/IRA to form valued judgements on them?

I'll post you up a list of their "spectaculers".

There is even a programme on Shedgar on Thursday night that promises to name individuals.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
Should we not consider past activities by SF/IRA to form valued judgements on them?

I'll post you up a list of their "spectaculers".

There is even a programme on Shedgar on Thursday night that promises to name individuals.

If you can provide proof please do so, but don't try and patronise me with articles that allege things, I can do that with my points.

Real proof please!

Cork

Originally posted by irish1
If you can provide proof please do so, but don't try and patronise me with articles that allege things, I can do that with my points.

Real proof please!

How do you explain IRA funding?

What were the IRA doing in Adare?

Would you find it hard to belive an illegal army would be involved in rackets?

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
How do you explain IRA funding?

What were the IRA doing in Adare?

Would you find it hard to belive an illegal army would be involved in rackets?

Belief and proof are 2 very different things, sorry to harp on about it, but you haven't offerred any proof.

I thing it's getting beyond redicilous really that you continue to argue points that you can't back up

Cork

Originally posted by irish1
Belief and proof are 2 very different things, sorry to harp on about it, but you haven't offerred any proof.

I thing it's getting beyond redicilous really that you continue to argue points that you can't back up

The IRA got arms from Gadaffi. Has the IRA not been involved in bank raids & various rackets?

Gerry McCabe was murdered in Adare during a planned robbery.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
The IRA got arms from Gadaffi. Has the IRA not been involved in bank raids & various rackets?

Gerry McCabe was murdered in Adare during a planned robbery.

FFS still no proof, you bordering on trolling now Cork!!

Mighty_Mouse

The IRA got arms from Gadaffi.

Point? The IRA are on a permenent and lasting cease-fire

Gerry McCabe was murdered in Adare during a planned robbery.

A terrible and unfortunate situation. My heart really goes out to the family of Det Gerry McCabe.

But in relation to releasing the IRA men. Do you agree in the GFA or not. Are you goin to start picking the pieces you agree with like unionists have been doing?

Zombrex

Originally posted by irish1
FFS still no proof, you bordering on trolling now Cork!!

Oh come on Irish ....

- The IRA got arms from Gadaffi.
"In opposing what he said was the pernicious influence of the West on the Arab world and in pursuit of his desire to destroy Israel, Colonel Gaddafi has, at times, given financial help to a broad range of Palestinian and other armed groups around the globe, including the Irish Republican Army (IRA)."
BBC

- Has the IRA not been involved in bank raids & various rackets? Gerry McCabe was murdered in Adare during a planned robbery.
"While the same contributor challenged Adams on Sinn FŽin's support for the release of the Castlerea prisoners who were jailed for the killing of Garda Gerry McCabe, Adams showed himself in his answer to be honest and forthright. That is Sinn FŽin's position, that is the Good Friday Agreement, and it applies to all IRA prisoners."
An Phoblacht

Irish either you are trolling to piss people off or you know very little about the history of the IRA. If Cork said something completely out there, like Gerry Adams is really a woman, then yes demanding proof would be good idea. But all he is doing is stating what everyone (apart from you apparently) already knows.

Zombrex

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
But in relation to releasing the IRA men. Do you agree in the GFA or not. Are you goin to start picking the pieces you agree with like unionists have been doing?

There is a difference between agreeing with the GFA and supporting it. I support it, not because I agree that these thugs and ciminals should be released, but because I accepted that it is necessary condition to making the IRA and Loyalist terrorist go away.

Of course a load of prisioner have been released and the IRA and UDA are still active and still engaging in illegal punishment beating and attacks. So why exactly should prisioners be released when the terrorist are still active.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0309/northviolence.html

Mighty_Mouse

RTE:

The Chief Constable of the North's Police Service, Hugh Orde, has said the IRA and the Ulster Defence Association are behind many punishment beatings and
shootings.

High Order is a hard source to argue with! Regardless, yes punishment beatings still happen but my opinions on it and solutions to it are already outlined.

As regards prisoners not being released because of punishment beatings !!!!! Not in the GFA to the best of my knowledge

The Jerry McCabe is a particularly hard incident to stomach but the GFA agreement needs to be implemented in full. And this includes the release of those IRA men involved

Villain

Originally posted by Wicknight
Oh come on Irish ....


Irish either you are trolling to piss people off or you know very little about the history of the IRA. If Cork said something completely out there, like Gerry Adams is really a woman, then yes demanding proof would be good idea. But all he is doing is
stating what everyone (apart from you apparently) already knows.

Hey listen mate everybody doesn't know these things, they think these things, to know something you would need proof.

Now I made a statement in another thread about the RUC collusion, I couldn't prove it so I retarcted it, how in god names am I trolling, everyone thinks there was collusion going on between the RUC and Loyalists groups, but I was unable to prove it.

Now Wicknight Cork should supply proof to back up his claims or stop talking nonense.

I know the history of the IRA well enough thanks all the same!

Oh and in regards to the McCabe prisioners under the GFA they are entitled to early release, doesn't wash well with me either but I did vote for the agreement!!

Cork

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Point? The IRA are on a permenent and lasting cease-fire

Ceasefire*

* excludes recruitment, punishment beatings, racketeering, targeting etc.

Those associated with the murder of Jerry Mc Cabe don't come under the GFA.

They are not entitled to early release.

There was an interesting report on the Dublin Port story on Radio 1 this morning.

(Morning Ireland) - It may be on the web.

Mighty_Mouse

Those associated with the murder of Jerry Mc Cabe don't come under the GFA.

Can you explain Cork? How is this correct?

Cork

The Supreme Court which ruled that the release of prisoners qualifying under the Good Friday Agreement is at the discretion of the Minister for Justice

Mr Justice Peart said he was satisfied that there was no obligation on the Minister for Justice to consider the men for release under the agreement.

This does not stop SF from lobbying for their early release.