It is time for the IRA to disband.

Mighty_Mouse

The GFA

Both Governments will put in place mechanisms to provide for an accelerated programme for the release of prisoners, including transferred prisoners, convicted of scheduled offences in Northern Ireland or, in the case of those sentenced outside Northern Ireland, similar offences (referred to hereafter as qualifying prisoners). Any such arrangements will protect the rights of individual prisoners under national and international law

The definition of a 'qualifying prisoners' is very clear - someone convicted of 'scheduled offences' in the North and 'similar offences' elsewhere. The Adare case falls into this category

The only clause that sets out who does not qualify for early release is in paragraph two which states that the only people who will not benefit are those affiliated to organisations that are not on cessation. As the IRA have maintained a cessation since July 1997, and the Agreement was signed in April 1998, the Castlerea Four clearly come under the terms of the Agreement. They are not excluded by any clause in the Agreement.

Mighty_Mouse

The GFA

Both Governments will put in place mechanisms to provide for an accelerated programme for the release of prisoners, including transferred prisoners, convicted of scheduled offences in Northern Ireland or, in the case of those sentenced outside Northern Ireland, similar offences (referred to hereafter as qualifying prisoners). Any such arrangements will protect the rights of individual prisoners under national and international law

The definition of a 'qualifying prisoners' is very clear - someone convicted of 'scheduled offences' in the North and 'similar offences' elsewhere. The Adare case falls into this category

The only clause that sets out who does not qualify for early release is in paragraph two which states that the only people who will not benefit are those affiliated to organisations that are not on cessation. As the IRA have maintained a cessation since July 1997, and the Agreement was signed in April 1998, the Castlerea Four clearly come under the terms of the Agreement. They are not excluded by any clause in the Agreement.

Mr Justice Peart said he was satisfied that there was no obligation on the Minister for Justice to consider the men for release under the agreement.

He ruled that the GFA had no juristiction in the south as it had not being incorporated into domestic law.

While the minister has no obligation on him, it was expected that both governments would fully implement the agreement. Not releasing the prisoners is not implementing the agreement.

Implementing the agreement, IMO, is the best way of supporting it!!

And therefore SF will continue to lobby for the implementation of the GFA on all sides

Mighty_Mouse

Just to re-iterate Cork:

They are not entitled to early release.

Under the GFA they are.

Cork

The IMC report seems to completely vendicate both the stance taken by both Michael McDowell & Bertie Ahern.

The SF party will now suffer financial loss because of activity by an organisation that it is linked to.

But SF again blames the IMC Report. (Everybody is to blame really except themselves)

mneylon

Originally posted by Cork
The IMC report seems to completely vendicate both the stance taken by both Michael McDowell & Bertie Ahern.

The SF party will now suffer financial loss because of activity by an organisation that it is linked to.

But SF again blames the IMC Report. (Everybody is to blame really except themselves)

Cork - give over.
The report mentions loyalist activity, yet you did not mention it..
It's obvious to anybody following this thread that you are on the other side of the fence. That you would try to vindicate yourself through an obviously biased report does not change that fact.
Has it crossed your mind that this kind of sanction could lead to a complete halt in the processs?

mneylon

On a related note the Commission's makeup is worth examining:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=513363

Mighty_Mouse

Wow!! This thread is back from the dead again!! The Rocky of boards threads!

Cork

This thread is back from the dead again!!

Like the IRA - it has not gone away.

The reported highlighted the same criminality that was highlighted by Michael McDowell.

SFs grant will now be cut as result of certain activitys by the IRA.

mneylon

Originally posted by Cork
Like the IRA - it has not gone away.

The reported highlighted the same criminality that was highlighted by Michael McDowell.

SFs grant will now be cut as result of certain activitys by the IRA.

The report was put together by a very "interesting" group - hardly objective.

Villain

Originally posted by Cork
The reported highlighted the same criminality that was highlighted by Michael McDowell.

Yes and we still await convinctions, oh wiat McDowell is only minister for Justice, could hardly expect the information he has to make these claims would leave to convinctions:rolleyes:

monument

I haven’t read the report, but I understand that the report has only claimed, and did not back most claims – is this true?

The make up of the commission is a complete joke; one could hardly claim it as independent.

Mighty_Mouse

Are we all clear on the fact that this commission is outside the terms of the GFA?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

The Brigadier

Well the Shinners try to obstruct process wherever possible.

Mighty_Mouse

So what? Are you saying that for all eternity institutions and bodies can't be set up that weren't explicity mentioned in the GFA?

I think:
1. Well thats an extreme representation of my view. I think the promary focus should be on implementing the GFA and not on setting up ad-hoc, unrepresentative commissions which pander to the grievences of one party. I believe the GFA sets out the terms for the future governance of NI. Everyone signed up to it so external commissions as such should not interfere with the implementation of the GFA. This commission is just another smokescreen for unionists not to participate in a democracy and it is completely outside the remit of the GFA. If the unionists wanted a government to hinge on whether or not punishment beatings are happening or crime figres are high then they should of negotiated it in the GFA. They didn't and this post-agreement smokescreen is despicable.
2. If such a commission is established it should have the backing of all parties. I dont believe off-the-wall sanctions and penalties are the way forward

Ps
Another cracker out of you jimmy

Cork

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
I think:
I think the promary focus should be on implementing the GFA

But where in the GFA did it say that the IRA can be maintained?

If the IRA don't stop their criminality - Should IRA prisoners who were released under the GFA should be put back behind bars?

Do the IRA want to take the benefits of the GFA and none of the responsibilitys?

Mighty_Mouse

But where in the GFA did it say that the IRA can be maintained?

Where did it say it couldn't? The fact of the matter if the IRA could possible disappear if the GFA was implemented.

I didn't know criminality was written into the agreement.
Also to drag down a process surely you need a little proof of criminality!
plus Sinn Fein are not the IRA

The Brigadier

And Eircom Retail and Wholesale are two different companies.

majorharry

quote:
Originally posted by DeVore

"It was time the IRA disbanded a long time ago. If they had... we'd already have a United Ireland. They are whats stopping that, not the Unionists "

As a protestant Ulsterman and person who would greatly welcome the re-unification of our country, I must say that I agree wholeheartedly with the above quote by DeVore.

SF/IRA , during their "war of liberation" have driven a deep wedge between the North's two traditions and put back unity for generations. Their failure to disband has driven many Unionists into the Paisley camp.

The IRA campaign was a failure as there is no immediate prospect of unity and a fully armed and prepared UVF and UDA will ensure that this does not happen.

We need an immediate disbandment of all IRA's and all branches of UVF /UDA'S and a campaign to win over
protestants to the idea of a unified Ireland.
In their expectation of unity many people are voting SF but I fear their expectations will not come to fruition.

Unity will only come by consent.

Cork

Originally posted by majorharry

We need an immediate disbandment of all IRA's and all branches of UVF /UDA'S and a campaign to win over
protestants to the idea of a unified Ireland.
In their expectation of unity many people are voting SF but I fear their expectations will not come to fruition.

Unity will only come by consent.

The IRAs campaign has driven a wedge between the peoples of NI. Its continued existance does nothing to heal devision.

SF/IRA accept the consent principle. How do they think that the existance to the IRA will win over unuinists?

AngelofFire

The IRA have no place in post good friday agreement NI. They are a threat to the democracy and stability that has being created over the past 6 years.They need to make a move to decommission

Stating that the IRA are some Altruistic subsitution for the lack of proper policing in certain nationalist areas is unacceptable. The majority of nationalists support the agreement therefore more of them should bite the bullet and join the PSNI. Both unionists and nationalists have the potential to work together to stamp out the social problems in NI its time that they started now. Whether they like or not the unionists must learn to tolerate the nationalists and the nationalists must acknowledge the fact that the unionists are there to stay.

David-[RLD]-

We have to get both Loyalist and Republican paramilitary organisations to disband.

But, who says they're going to? Our government is too soft on Loyalists especially since they bombed Dublin and Monaghan, and the Brits don't seem to care.

The IRA need to see Loyalists decommissioning before they do completely, and that's why they haven't yet. The Loyalists have already seen the IRA give up many weapons but they aren't doing the same.

BuffyBot

The IRA need to see Loyalists decommissioning before they do completely, and that's why they haven't yet.

Catch 22 isn't it. I'm sure the loyalist terror groups would say the same about the IRA.

Someone has got to make the first move...

David-[RLD]-

I know. What a predicament of sorts.

I guess you could say the IRA are starting to make the first move, but the Irish government and that government over there *points east* should put equal high pressure on the IRA and loyalists to give up all weapons.

IMHO the governments aren't nearly doing enough to make full decommissioning a reality.

Cork

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-

IMHO the governments aren't nearly doing enough to make full decommissioning a reality.

I think parties like SF have got to face down the so called hard men of the IRA.

SF should have done this years ago. The IRA involved in punishment beatings and criminal acts must be unaccptable and it has to stop.

Weapons must not be used as a bargaining chip to win concessions.

bonkey

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
but the Irish government and that government over there *points east* should put equal high pressure on the IRA and loyalists to give up all weapons.

/me looks a the call for equal treatment.
/me looks at the inability to even reference both governments in an equally civil manner

/me shakes head in wonderment and moves on.

jc

Mighty_Mouse

They need to make a move to decommission

When did you write this. Year 2000?

The IRAs campaign has driven a wedge between the peoples of NI

I disagree. The wedge was there before the IRA

Stating that the IRA are some Altruistic subsitution for the lack of proper policing in certain nationalist areas is unacceptable

Well thats the simple fact of the matter

The majority of nationalists support the agreement therefore more of them should bite the bullet and join the PSNI.

Yes. Nationalists support the agreement. More so than unionists at the moment
Join the RUC you mean. All that has changed is the name, uniform and badge. This is the same police force with a history of collusion, murder, interfering with evidence etc etc . Patten needs to be implemented as agreed:
http://www.nio.gov.uk/pdf/patten2001.pdf
It hasnt so far

I'm sure the loyalist terror groups would say the same about the IRA.

Not really. Loyalists groups have become less and less politically motivated. "Mad Dog" Johnny Adair for example. They have political ideals but are just drug running armed gangs. I don't think they will ever have a lasting cease-fire.

monument

Originally posted by Cork
I think parties like SF have got to face down the so called hard men of the IRA.

Yeah, let them do that, heavy hand tactics that pisses of the hardcore of any group always works… on that subject, would you like chips with your splinter group?

David-[RLD]-

Originally posted by bonkey
/me looks a the call for equal treatment.
/me looks at the inability to even reference both governments in an equally civil manner

/me shakes head in wonderment and moves on.

jc

How.. witty. I just don't like using the term "British" government.

Would you rather if I called it: The Imperialist Government Stationed In Westmister Which Controls A Country That Has Oppressed Countless Civilisations For Nearly A Millennium?

Didn't think so...

The Brigadier

How about if you just acted like a grown up and called it by it's actual name.

If you have such a problem using the word British then you have some serious issues which need to be addressed.