[article] Irish Government Gets Cold Feet About EU Newbies

mike65

IRELAND will impose social welfare restrictions on immigrants to prevent abuse of the system when 10 new states join the EU on May 1.

Taoiseach Bertie Ahern confirmed the decision last night, just hours after the British government announced a clampdown on welfare for immigrants.

Mr Ahern said the restrictions would be in place by May 1. He said he had to take into account the changed position from last October.

At that time, eight of the current 15 member states, including Ireland and Britain, said they would not impose restrictions on benefits. But we were now the only country to retain an unrestricted policy on claiming benefit "and we can't ignore that", said Mr Ahern.

British Home Secretary David Blunkett said immigrants to Britain from the new states, including Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic, will be barred from claiming benefits in Britain for at least two years.

And Prime Minister Tony Blair warned: "If they can't support themselves, they will be put out of the country."

Mr Blunkett said Britain had been in contact with the Irish Government on the issue, a fact later confirmed by Social Affairs Minister Mary Coughlan.

Mr Ahern said the restrictions to be imposed here would not be as "tough" or as "hard" as in some other countries. And he reiterated the Government's pledge that EU citizens who wanted to come here to work would be free to do so.

"We are honouring that commitment," said Mr Ahern, who pointed out that 47,000 work permits were being issued to non-nationals by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment.

Mr Ahern said Ireland would have to take steps to ensure the system was not abused. "So we will have to protect ourselves in that regard. We will have to do certain things on social welfare aspects of the system, but not on the labour market."

Foreign Affairs Minister Brian Cowen, speaking in Brussels, said: "Clearly we want to make sure we can address any legitimate concerns there may be regarding the potential abuse of the social welfare system."

He added: "But as regards those who want to come work in Ireland the commitment we made stands. We envisage that 70 or 80pc of future needs for the labour market will be from these countries."

He pointed out that for two years after enlargement, the Government could still impose safeguard measures, "if there was any undue disruption to the labour market".

The topic was discussed yesterday among foreign ministers in Brussels, but Mr Cowen ruled out the issue being added to the agenda of the next EU summit.

Earlier, Fine Gael Foreign Affairs spokesman Gay Mitchell said: "The Government's stated policy of allowing immigrants from EU accession states to come to Ireland and qualify for social welfare benefits may now be untenable.

"Ireland and Britain form a common travel area and the British decision to phase in immigrants' rights to welfare may have implications here.

"It is important that we get clarity on how the proposed system in the UK will operate," he added.

Gene McKenna
Political Editor

I'm dissapointed but not surprised.

Mike.

yankinlk

Don't see it as a problem. Maybe now you won't hear people complaining about all the "foreigners" sponging off the state. As soon as we can get people to stop thinking dark skin equals refuge the better.

stuartfanning

I don't know how the Press covered the matter in Ireland but here in England the Tabloids did the usual suggesting the country would be overrun with Gypsy's. This hysteria forced the UK Government to act. Sad but that's how it is.

Xterminator

I dont think our government was left with any choice!

It would be untenable to be the only country i the EU to provide Social welfare benifits to the economic migrants, and not have any EU subsidy to the cost of providing that service.

The fact is that the are allowed over here freely, as long as they are willing to work.

Yes that means they will initally have to take the low paid jobs in Fast Food joints, Resturants, and Pubs etc, to get themselves on their feet. But on the bight side, they will be contributing to our society, learning the language as they go, and pehaps they'll bring a couple of decent soccer youngsters who can help us win the world cup!

X

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by mike65
I'm dissapointed but not surprised.

Mike.

Why are you disappointed? Would you prefer to see this country alone amonst the current EU members squander its sparse resources in hosting potentially millions of benefit tourists from the accession states?
Why should Ireland, with its Health System near crisis and already cutting benefits (rent allowance etc) to it's own citizens be the only member state to offer such largesse? Even some of the accession states (Czechoslovakia) have imposed similar bars to the comparatively poorer states (Poland)
TBH, I think the Taoiseach did not go far enough. A curfew needs to be considered on the immigration of Eastern Euorpean workers in order to ringfence the interests of Irish workers. But, this we will never see, considering the close relationship between the present Government and IBEC whose only motivation is the perpetuation of low pay through the importation of immigrant labour.

Imposter

I think it is a very sensible solution. I'd also assume any EU citizen who has been working in Ireland for a set period of time and lost their job could claim welfare, anyone know this?

Same story from the indo

From that article:

It has emerged that the same controls as proposed here would also apply to Irish people who have been outside the country for some time and are intended to address discrimination on grounds of nationality, ethnicity, gender or disability.

This paragraph confuses me. What has the second part of that got to do with the first part? Seeing as this law applies to all EU citizens (except Irish i'd assume) then how can they deny welfare to Irish citizens who have been away for a number of years and still give welfare to people who haven't worked in Ireland for the same number of years, if ever? Surely it must apply to all Irish equally?

sovtek

Originally posted by Xterminator
The fact is that the are allowed over here freely, as long as they are willing to work.

As opposed to the spongers from the likes of Germany, France or Spain...not to mention the Irish ones.
How many other EU countries closed off their unemployment to the Irish when they went abroad after joining the EU?

Yes that means they will initally have to take the low paid jobs in Fast Food joints, Resturants, and Pubs etc, to get themselves on their feet.

X [/B]

If we purged the Irish Social Welfare rolls then Mickey D's would have an ample work force.
Can't get work. Can't get welfare. Can't get home. Gotta make money somehow...Now while I push you into this dark alley with a syringe to your neck will you please produce your wallet and valuables. Thank you Come again.

mike65

Originally posted by pro_gnostic_8
Why are you disappointed? Would you prefer to see this country alone amonst the current EU members squander its sparse resources in hosting potentially millions of benefit tourists from the accession states?

ROFL!

Bring em in if they're coming! I'd sooner Ireland plc took advantage of all those well educated, and motivated ex commies now rather than do what the Germans and French are doing which is protecting a dismal status quo.

This country actually needs immigrant labour. Whole sectors the economy would grind to a halt without all those chaps on work visas at the moment. I reckon all that will happen on May 1 is that the status of those workers will change (ie no visa required). Little else.

The only ppl for whom this is bad news is third country labour from the Phillipines, etc. Employers will switch to East europeans when looking for nurses, doctors and the like.

Mike.

Meh

So will these immigrants be paying a reduced rate of PRSI, to compensate them for the benefits they are no longer entitled to?

Doesn't seem fair to charge them for benefits they won't be able to claim.

hallelujajordan

Originally posted by pro_gnostic_8
Why are you disappointed? Would you prefer to see this country alone amonst the current EU members squander its sparse resources in hosting potentially millions of benefit tourists from the accession states?
.

It's precisely this kind of scaremongering that has put the government in a position where they have little option . . .

There was a UK academic on 5-7 live last week (sorry, maybe someone else can help me here . . I can't remember his name) . . Anyway, he had been studying migration patterns around Europe over the last 15 years . . Anyway, he estimated that the impact to Ireland would be less than 10,000 migrants . . . even if Britain were to put restrictions in place . .

I think the Eastern European workforce have a lot to offer and we should welcome them in with open arms . . just look at the number of Baltic nationals working as labourers in Ireland now . . and they are not here because they are cheaper they are here because they are more productive . .

Finally, isn't this what the whole European project is all about . . it was fine when we were the third world country sitting on the outskirts lapping up the benefits but now that we are economically more successful our attitudes are changing . . . Considering our own history in relation to emmigration,we, as a nation, should know better . . .

Imposter

Originally posted by Meh
So will these immigrants be paying a reduced rate of PRSI, to compensate them for the benefits they are no longer entitled to?

Doesn't seem fair to charge them for benefits they won't be able to claim.

I think they will be entitled to claim benifits once they have worked in Ireland for a set period of time. Moving here just to claim welfare is what is being stopped.

Redleslie

Whichever new labour twat invented the term "benefit tourist" should be given a good hard kick up the arse. Two if it was Blair.

sovtek

Originally posted by Meh
So will these immigrants be paying a reduced rate of PRSI, to compensate them for the benefits they are no longer entitled to?

Doesn't seem fair to charge them for benefits they won't be able to claim.

Is that PRSI is for? Hell I didn't know that.
That must mean that I'm entitled to claim even though I'm an America.
That's it...I'm quitting and heading to the dole office tomorrow.

Sparks

Bonkey, you must be happy - Switzerland won't get called the most anti-foreigner nation in Europe anymore....

Imposter

Originally posted by Sparks
Bonkey, you must be happy - Switzerland won't get called the most anti-foreigner nation in Europe anymore....

Do you know what the other EU countries have proposed?

Apparently Ireland and the UK have stopped benifits, Sweden, Denmark and someone else are issuing work visas/permits to a certain number of people from the applicant countries and the rest are placing a total ban on them (not allowed to work and no welfare). This was according ot CNN on Monday night so have a rummage around their website or elsewhere for more info.

In light of that Ireland's policy looks quite sensible imo.

bonkey

Originally posted by Sparks
Bonkey, you must be happy - Switzerland won't get called the most anti-foreigner nation in Europe anymore....

After Holland voted to kick 25,000 illegal (?) immigrants out recently, I think Swissville had already lost that moniker....

I still think its priceless that the nation with the hightest percentage of resident non-nationals in Europe was ever called the most anti-foreigner.

Calibos

the country would be overrun with Gypsy's................................ Sad but that's how it is.

I'm not racist, I don't think gypsies are lesser people etc etc Culturally though (probably caused by historic social and economic exclusion in their home country) I just think they seem to be out for what they can get, ie they'll come over, they'll all claim dole and benefits while the husbands play the accordian on the mainstreet or black market labour, the wives and kids will beg on the other side of the street and a small minority will continue their pick-pocketing, shop lifting career.

This is not a troll, but roll on the ultra-liberal fashionista PC brigade (oh and the definition of racism off topic rants have been done to death) Whether its PC to say it or not, whatever the historical or cultural reasons for gypsies being the way they are, the fact remains they'll be over like a shot come May 1st. They'll say they are leaving because of predjudice in their home country and are coming to work and to make a better life for themselves and their families here. Most will mean it too but they'll fall back into historical, cultural habits which will only give natives the same reasons to be predjudiced against them as the natives of their home country......Sad but true....IMHO

Roll on May 1st for the real migrant workers though. I mean I have no problem with the economic migrant/asylum seekers we have at present. We've done it for generations. Because of our joke of an immigration policy the asylum line is the only way they have of getting in. I've no problem with the asylum seekers, I have a problem with government policy which means they cant get to work straight away but have to live off the state for years before their asylum plea is finally rejected. If they can get work let them stay. No problem with the Nigerians, no problem with the chinese, no problem with the eastern europeans, no problem with any off them, 'asylum' seekers or economic migrants....major problem with certain groups who I expect will have very little intention of coming to actually work.

bonkey

Originally posted by Calibos
I'm not racist, /B]

I just think they seem to be out for what they can get, ie they'll come over, they'll all claim dole and benefits while the husbands play the accordian on the mainstreet or black market labour, the wives and kids will beg on the other side of the street and a small minority will continue their pick-pocketing, shop lifting career.

Paraphrase :

"I'm not racist, but I think this entire race are unacceptable because......"

You're branding an entire cultural group with a stereotypical image which is somewhat (at least) denigrating. That is racist whether you like to admit it or not.

They'll say they are leaving because of predjudice in their home country

Pity they'll arrive over here (if they come) to get a whole new set of people prejudiced against them before they've even done anything

Most will mean it too but they'll fall back into historical, cultural habits

Paraphrase :

"I'm not racist, but that race is guilty until proven innocent".

jc

gurramok

Originally posted by Imposter
I think they will be entitled to claim benifits once they have worked in Ireland for a set period of time. Moving here just to claim welfare is what is being stopped.

Moving here will be alot easier thanks to the proposed direct route between Vilnius (Lithuania) and Dublin by our loveable Ryanair. (According to todays IOS)