Bertie and Gerry, is it all over now? (sniff!)

mike65

So Bertie admits to beliving that Gerry was a provo all the time...Gerry says he's stunned. "How could Bertie..." etc?

So what do we think...is Gerry a provo? Has Bertie decided its no more Mr Nice Guy?
And if so, why now?

Mike.

Ajnag

Loves a beautiful thing isnt it.

lol, Tis a funny one, specallily seening as theyll be in each others pant once sinn fein is socially acceptable in a few years, and when ff need the votes.

If harneys a brides maid, Ill think Ill pass on the wedding tho.

gandalf

LOL is Gerry a provo !!! Yes of course he is, he wouldn't be the President of Sinn Fein if he didn't have involvement in its paramilitary wing.

As for FF sucking up to them in the future sure thats obvious, this current crowd would sell their souls to Satan (thats assuming they have them) if it meant they could stay in power.

Gandalf.

ReefBreak

It is well known and well documented that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness were part of an IRA delegation that met with Downing Street in 1972, just before the most violent period of the troubles. To be honest I can't understand why Adams continues to be a liar about his IRA history. It could be that he's been claiming it for so long now, he'd look foolish if he changed his story. Or perhaps he was an active "pseudo" member but never took an IRA oath, so that he could say he had never joined.

Nuttzz

for Adams to say he wasnt is an insult to peoples intelligence,

thesecret7

Gerry Adams has blood on his hands and of course he was a member of the Provos.

Mighty_Mouse

Theres no point in Gerry Adams saying he wasnt a member of the IRA if he was. Martin McGuinness and loads others (Ferris, Kelly etc ) have all said they were members of the IRA and it hasnt harmed them politically.

So why would Gerry Adams maintain he wasnt a member? He's obviously a republican and republicans have ties with the IRA, but could it be possible that G. Adams was never a member of the IRA. Maby he hsa been groomed for a political struggle for years and therefore had no motivation to join.

I know this much though. Bye bye peace process, democratic goverment etc if Irish English governments continue in the manner they have in recent times.

Villain

Can anyone back up the claims of Gerry Adams being a MEMBER of the IRA, or are you all going to assume Bertie is telling the truth.

I believe Gerry Adams was never a MEMBER of the IRA, he may have had links and been closely tied to the organisation, but I don't think he was ever a member.

Bertie is stirring ****, and you wanna know why, coz theres elections comming up and Gerry Adams is far a superior Politic Leader than Bertie will ever be.

Sinn Fein are going to make a lot of gains in the up coming elections and Berties unfounded lies won't stop them.

I was delighted that Bertie came out and said these things, it showed he's afraid of the support SF are gathering. Bertie is a fool do if he thinks some slide remark will turn the tide against Gerry Adams. I would like to see Bertie debate this issue with Adams so we could all see him getting his ass kicked.

My big worry here do is the UUP and DUP will jump on these remarks and Paisley will look to make it another reason why his party shouldn't go into government with SF.

Bertie has turned out to be a bigger a fool than I thought, and thats hard.

bonkey

Originally posted by irish1
Gerry Adams is far a superior Politic Leader than Bertie will ever be.

Dunno that I'd agree with that, but I reckon he's the most charismatic and well-spoken politician in Ireland today....and thats a lot of what Bertie is afraid of.

jc

monument

Originally posted by ReefBreak
It is well known and well documented that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness were part of an IRA delegation that met with Downing Street in 1972, just before the most violent period of the troubles. To be honest I can't understand why Adams continues to be a liar about his IRA history. It could be that he's been claiming it for so long now, he'd look foolish if he changed his story. Or perhaps he was an active "pseudo" member but never took an IRA oath, so that he could say he had never joined.

Representing the IRA and been apart of the IRA are two different things.

It’s like publicly claming some one had taken a bribe, or is/was some other way corrupt, just because it is commonly believed so.

Did you name Martin Mc Guinness to try to add water to your story? Just because one was - has said so, and can be proven so - a member of the IRA, does not mean the other was.

Sparks

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Theres no point in Gerry Adams saying he wasnt a member of the IRA if he was.

Yes there is. Adams, as the leader of Sinn Fein, acknowledging membership of the IRA would destroy Sinn Fein's "Oh, we're not the provos, really" stance completely.

sovtek

See Bertie's not so dumb. He's gettin everyone's panties in a wad over this instead of asking him some serious questions.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
I though McGuinness acknowledging membership had already done that but apparently people are willing to get past that point! *The mind boggles*

McGuinness is not the leader, thats like Lawlor admitting taking money means Bertie did!! *The Mind Boggles*

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
He's obviously a republican and republicans have ties with the IRA,

That's some fairly faulty logic you've got there buddy.

monument

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
So why would Gerry Adams maintain he wasnt a member? He's obviously a republican and republicans have ties with the IRA,

I missed that until Raskolnikov posted some of it.

On second thought I don’t think I’ll even reply, but just shake my head at the good job the Irish media have done conveying their anti-republican views.

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
I know this much though. Bye bye peace process, democratic goverment etc if Irish English governments continue in the manner they have in recent times.

Bye, bye, to the peace process and the democratic government etc because of the current larges party of unionises - they do not want a democratic government including ANY republicans.

Cork

Originally posted by thesecret7
Gerry Adams has blood on his hands and of course he was a member of the Provos.

Why does he not admit this?

He said he was flabbergasted at the suggestion.


Was this the first time he heard it??

I really have no time for SF/IRA - SF could not even find it in it's heart to condemn the bomb at Warrington.

So Gerry maintains he was never involved in the IRA.

How does he feel about the Loch Ness Monster?

monument

Originally posted by Cork
How does he feel about the Loch Ness Monster?

How do YOU feel about the Lock Ness Monster?

Do you have proof of either?

Cork

I would suggest reading Ed Moroneys most recent book.

How could Adams be fabbergasted at the notion of involvement in the IRA?

Was this week - the first- it was put to him?

Atreides

Originally posted by Cork
I would suggest reading Ed Moroneys most recent book.

How could Adams be fabbergasted at the notion of involvement in the IRA?

Was this week - the first- it was put to him?

More to the point he was shocked by the person he believed it, surely intelligents would have porved or disproved this years ago. Surely if he was a member there is/was a british oprative someone that would have evidence to prove it.

monument

Originally posted by Cork
I would suggest reading Ed Moroneys most recent book.

Could you give us an example of the evidence of Adams been in the IRA contained in this book?

everythinglive

of course gerry adams was a member of the IRA. but he has my vote. Go Sinn Féin!

Cork

The IRA does not have membership lists so hard proof is hard to find.

Mr Ahern made a clear reference to the 1972 ceasefire negotiations between the IRA and then Northern Secretary Willie Whitelaw in London. Senior IRA negotiators insisted Mr Adams be released from internment to take part in the talks.

"He hardly became one of the chief negotiators at the time of Lenadoon, if he hadn't some fairly close association," said Mr Ahern

Moriarty

Originally posted by everythinglive
of course gerry adams was a member of the IRA. but he has my vote. Go Sinn Féin!

The vote you don't yet have because you aren't 18? Have you ever given some thought to the reasons why Sinn Fein is recieving most of its support from late teens and early to mid twenties?

gurramok

The vote you don't yet have because you aren't 18?

You are basing your opinion on assumptions. How do you know from the post that the poster is under 18 ? (psychic powers ? )

Have you ever given some thought to the reasons why Sinn Fein is recieving most of its support from late teens and early to mid twenties?

What are the reasons, would love to hear.

mike65

Those under about 25 have little memory of the provos
freedom loving activities - no warning bombs, massive town centre bombing campiagns, countless violent bank robberies north and esp South, some of which claimed lives (not just Adare), the kidnappings, the beatings with
baseball bats featuring guest apperances by 6 inch long nails. You know that sort of stuff which oldesters like me still have stored away in the memory banks.

I think many in the 15-25 age cohert kind of imagine that
sort of thing did'nt really happen much. That it was media exaggeration.

Mike.

flogen

to add to that mike, i would also say that, in my experience, the whole IRA thing is romaticised, when i was younger friends of mine kept spouting on about up the RA and all that, listening to the wolfe tones, and shouting chucaigh ar la (they could spell it as well as i did). although i was too young to realise how stupid it was to act like that, i never really got into it anyway.

Its been my firm belief that these types of people will soon have a big effect on the electorate. the next election (mainly general election) will, IMO see another boost for SF, and i think they will inadvertantly help reverse apathy as people who have no interest in politics go and vote SF because of 'The stuggles'. And lets not forget the possible effects CSP will have on young voters too, the coming years will be a good indication as to its failure to make young people politics-aware

Flogen

Moriarty

Originally posted by gurramok
You are basing your opinion on assumptions. How do you know from the post that the poster is under 18 ? (psychic powers ? )

No I'm not. Read.

Originally posted by gurramok
What are the reasons, would love to hear.

What mike65 and flogen said, no point repeating it. They hit the proverbial nail on the head.

swiss

I'm not entirely certain why Gerry Adams is so 'flabbergasted' that Bertie Ahern should assume that he is/was a member of the IRA. Personally I believe he was, based on Sinn Féins ties with that terrorist organisation. However, Bertie simply took a fairly straightforward piece of logic - that Sinn Féin is inextricably linked with the IRA, and that Gerry Adams is the leader of Sinn Féin, and that this implies that there might be a link between the two - and inferred that it was probable that Gerry Adams was a member of the IRA.

Regardless of how right/wrong Bertie might be, I find it far from 'flabbergasting' that Bertie would think it feasible that Gerry Adams was in the IRA. I believe Gerry Adams wanted to minimise the fallout to Sinn Féin from the revelations about IRA criminal activity in the north by trying to distance his party from them. Hence the use of such strong language in his denial.

I think flogen is right on the money with his remarks. Sinn Féin appears to have the romantic aura of a party dedicated to fighting for the underprivileged and marginalised in society, whilst ignoring that they are tied to an organisation that proactively exploits these groups through intimidation, extortion, money laundering and other activities that are the preserve of organised criminals.

The old adage "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" springs to mind. Enda Kenny this week mentioned that it was time to stop pandering to the republican movement, especially in the light of continued criminal activity on the part of the IRA. I believe that it is time to engage Sinn Féin on these matters, and ask them the questions that they do not want to hear regarding their IRA masters.

gurramok

Originally posted by Moriarty
No I'm not. Read.

I wouldnt take the birthday date as the gospel truth, some people do jokingly lie whether intentional or not about their age.

What mike65 and flogen said, no point repeating it. They hit the proverbial nail on the head.

How do you/mike define an oldster...as someone over 25 ?

Flogen has not indicated why that SF might pick up votes other than the apathy of youth thing\romantic era.
You will be surprised to learn that the 'The struggles' as Flogen point out have little influence on how votes are won over in the likes of dublin, it would be true for a border county for example.

The proverbial nail on the head is seriously way off the mark, are you suggesting that past atrocities are glorified by this misguided youth(15-25 in the example) ?

Sinn Féin appears to have the romantic aura of a party dedicated to fighting for the underprivileged and marginalised in society

Problem is no-one else does, at least that's how its felt where i live.